Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Are you seriously trying to use Sonic R? That game doesn't even house a story, let alone, be governed by the canon of Sonic.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Mind you, Sonic Advance 2 actually brought Knuckles into the plot, not randomly, but by the means of being tricked by Eggman, pitted against Sonic as a boss fight, and then made playable via his quest for revenge against Eggman.

Sonic Advance 3 is an absolute "no go" for your argument.

Let us not forget that Angel Island, Knuckles' domain is also a level and under robotic attack in Sonic Advance 1, effectively producing legitimacy for Knuckles to be in on the action. Overlooking such would be fatal to your Knuckles argument.

As for the Shadow game, I suppose your reason for overlooking the flaws in your argument might be from not having played certain levels and missions. But, Knuckles is found in way more than just one city, defending areas of the world. Unlike 06, Shadow the Hedgehog has the "entire world in danger= calling all heroes" reasoning behind it, sort of akin the Sonic Heroes.

As for Triple Trouble, you've already presented a reason why it isn't really random or unexplained either like Sonic 06's Knuckles.

So yeah, DBZ, evidence shown and reviewed disagrees with these "random Knuckles appearances preceding" accusations.

[Kenny_Glover]

Knuckles showing up out of blue in Sonic 2006 doesn't make that game a reboot,  though. It's very plausible Eggman just went to Angel Island, gave Knuckles a card and told him to give it to Sonic. Same thing as Tails picking up Knuckles with the Tornado.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Um, who are you responding to? Who's saying 06 was a reboot, let alone, for that reason? Unless you're referring to Hedgy's earlier attempts to defend Sonic 06 as an alleged "reboot that was meant to be" that is.

[Kenny_Glover]

Jolt_TH. You should read back into the thread.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

You mean where he legitimately stated that it was originally planned to be a reboot, which is true?

[Froggy]

[DBZHedgy]

Are you seriously trying to use Sonic R? That game doesn't even house a story, let alone, be governed by the canon of Sonic.

Here ya go bud

It's under "The Race is ON!"

Also, I find this quote to be rather interesting:

"Knuckles Never turns down a chance to be around Sonic when the action starts."

Mind you, Sonic Advance 2 actually brought Knuckles into the plot, not randomly, but by the means of being tricked by Eggman, pitted against Sonic as a boss fight, and then made playable via his quest for revenge against Eggman.

Fair enough, however, the Master Emerald is still seen unguarded with no ties to it and knuckles in the game. I wasn't being literal when referring to Random Knuckles encounters as Random Knuckles Encounters, it was just used for lack of a better term. I'd say they're more like "Knuckles is also here while disregarding the emerald."

(The "Also" is used to emphasis that 06 isn't the only story in which his job to protect the Master Emerald isn't acknowledged)

Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

Sonic Advance 3 is an absolute "no go" for your argument.

Let us not forget that Angel Island, Knuckles' domain is also a level and under robotic attack in Sonic Advance 1, effectively producing legitimacy for Knuckles to be in on the action. Overlooking such would be fatal to your Knuckles argument.

As for the Shadow game, I suppose your reason for overlooking the flaws in your argument might be from not having played certain levels and missions. But, Knuckles is found in way more than just one city, defending areas of the world. Unlike 06, Shadow the Hedgehog has the "entire world in danger= calling all heroes" reasoning behind it, sort of akin the Sonic Heroes.

As for Triple Trouble, you've already presented a reason why it isn't really random or unexplained either like Sonic 06's Knuckles.

So yeah, DBZ, evidence shown and reviewed disagrees with these "random Knuckles appearances preceding" accusations.

All of this doesn't actually counter my "Knuckles is Ignoring the Master Emerald" statement. Whatever he does in the games you and I have mentioned, the Master Emerald is rarely seen or not seen at all. Shadow, Triple Trouble, Advance, Advance 2, and even Advance 3 feature Knuckles In-game neglecting to watch the Emerald. They may appear in a cutscene or two, however, Knuckles is still not watching them. I mean Eggman takes control of it near the end of Advance 3.

Overall though all of these games and 06 pretty much feature Knuckles in game helping Sonic to some extension.

Um, who are you responding to? Who's saying 06 was a reboot, let alone, for that reason? Unless you're referring to Hedgy's earlier attempts to defend Sonic 06 as an alleged "reboot that was meant to be" that is.

For the record, I've already made my mind up on that subject, and it was in-fact a direct response to you.

Your right.

Nah, now I'm thinking that Sonic 06 was supposed to be like Sonic Adventure where it changed few details in the games around, while still somewhat keeping the characters and story the same. Either way it was a bit sloppy, but nothing unbarable. Just a Chaos Emerald and Blaze, that's all that's screwed up for continuities' sake.

EDIT: Your posts were merged as double posting isn't allowed. Next time just edit your previous post if you wish to add to your thoughts, please. ~Kiah

[Kenny_Glover]

You mean where he legitimately stated that it was originally planned to be a reboot, which is true?

Yes. The game may have been planned to have been a reboot, but the final game was not a major one at all, which is what it should have been.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

For the record, I've already made my mind up on that subject, and it was in-fact a direct response to you.

 

You missed the part where I clarified in mentioning that it was one of your earlier, not current attempts?

 

 

Here ya go bud

It's under "The Race is ON!"

Hmm, I stand corrected. However this evidence in turn  contradicts your earlier statement:

Actually no, he's right, Knuckles did make random appearances in Sonic.

Sonic R - Racing for no reason

 

As the the link you've provided, does indeed provide an existent reason for Knuckles to participate in the race. Thank you for the find.

 

 I wasn't being literal when referring to Random Knuckles encounters as Random Knuckles Encounters, it was just used for lack of a better term. I'd say they're more like "Knuckles is also here while disregarding the emerald."

(The "Also" is used to emphasis that 06 isn't the only story in which his job to protect the Master Emerald isn't acknowledged)

Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

All of this doesn't actually counter my "Knuckles is Ignoring the Master Emerald" statement.

If that was your true intent, then I'm afraid you'd have misunderstood Jolt's argument, thus having your rebuttal thrown out. As noted here,

 

Jolt_TH, on 17 Jun 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Before 06 Knuckles had only been seen in Heroes really without the emerald, although the opening is seen with him in the tornado, it's possible he was picked up by him ad in shadow he was defending the ruins from a worldwide threat. He just appears for no reason in 06 and does nothing of value.

 

 

The point of his argument was that 06 is the game that just brings Knuckles smack dab in the middle of the game without any reason in-story.

 

As you will recall, all those other games mentioned in the present debate, gave a reason for Knuckles to be there, backing Sonic while 06 fails to give him any reason to be standing on that dock of Soleanna, just to give Sonic a card.

[Kenny_Glover]

As you will recall, all those other games mentioned in the present debate, gave a reason for Knuckles to be there, backing Sonic while 06 fails to give him any reason to be standing on that dock of Soleanna, just to give Sonic a card.

There was a reason. Eggman gave Knuckles a card to give to Sonic. Just as it's possible Tails picked up Knuckles on the Tornado from Angel Island in Sonic Heroes, it's possible Eggman went to Angel Island to give Knuckles a card in Sonic 2006.

[The Tenth Doctor]

There was a reason. Eggman gave Knuckles a card to give to Sonic. Just as it's possible Tails picked up Knuckles on the Tornado from Angel Island in Sonic Heroes, it's possible Eggman went to Angel Island to give Knuckles a card in Sonic 2006.

I agree with your Heroes point, but Knuckles exact quote in 06 is "I saw Eggman on the outskirts of the city. He wanted me to give this to you." Unless Angel Island is on the outskirts of Soleanna, its a contradiction.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

There was a reason. Eggman gave Knuckles a card to give to Sonic. Just as it's possible Tails picked up Knuckles on the Tornado from Angel Island in Sonic Heroes, it's possible Eggman went to Angel Island to give Knuckles a card in Sonic 2006.

That's not a reason, it's just a plot point that doesn't really make sense in the grand scheme of things. Whereas Heroes actually backs itself up with the imminent impending threat, for Tails to bring Knuckles along, 06 just drops him into the story with no rhyme or reason.

[Kenny_Glover]

That's not a reason, it's just a plot point that doesn't really make sense in the grand scheme of things. Whereas Heroes actually backs itself up with the imminent impending threat, for Tails to bring Knuckles along, 06 just drops him into the story with no rhyme or reason.

It does make sense. Eggman gives Knuckles a card to give to Sonic, Knuckles gets concerned and figures something is up. He gives it Sonic, and decides to help him out as doing so would help save the world.

Ah, but:

I agree with your Heroes point, but Knuckles exact quote in 06 is "I saw Eggman on the outskirts of the city. He wanted me to give this to you." Unless Angel Island is on the outskirts of Soleanna, its a contradiction.

Which kills my point. Ah, well.

[Radiant Hero Ike]

Don't really have anything to say about this whole Knuckles thing, but I can say that Sonic 06 is one of my favorite Sonic games. I had a lot of hype for it when it was first coming out (I was 9, I believe), and I wasn't disappointed. Even now, the game is still fun. Silver's story was my favorite I think. He had the best gameplay. Shadow's was good too, though I wasn't huge on his homing attack pummel thing. Sonic's was also good, especially once you get the Gem Shoes which are really glitchy yet super fun to use, especially the Cyan one. Two player mode was hilarious as well. Silver can just chuck the other player all the way across the map.

[Kenny_Glover]

Speaking of multiplayer mode, I really hated how you couldn't homing attack other players.

[DBZHedgy]

You missed the part where I clarified in mentioning that it was one of your earlier, not current attempts?

Indeed I did.

 

Hmm, I stand corrected. However this evidence in turn  contradicts your earlier statement:

As the the link you've provided, does indeed provide an existent reason for Knuckles to participate in the race. Thank you for the find.

Wait a minute... how? The very reason Knuckles is with Sonic in this game, Sonic Advance, Advance 2, Advance 3, and Sonic 06 are due to Knuckles need to just hang around Sonic, or to help him with whatever he needs to do. Jolt_TH is trying to argue that Knuckles doesn't do anything of value other than "helping Sonic", but that's exactly what he does in several other games as well to no acknowledgement. 

 

Heck, giving a card to Sonic informing him of what to do is a much more Solid reason for Knuckles to join the gang other than racing, just because Sonic was participating.

 

If that was your true intent, then I'm afraid you'd have misunderstood Jolt's argument, thus having your rebuttal thrown out. As noted here, The point of his argument was that 06 is the game that just brings Knuckles smack dab in the middle of the game without any reason in-story.

*Addressed Above*

 

As you will recall, all those other games mentioned in the present debate, gave a reason for Knuckles to be there, backing Sonic while 06 fails to give him any reason to be standing on that dock of Soleanna, just to give Sonic a card.

--And help him out. What other reason would he stick around for? It's the same scenario for all of the other examples I had given earlier. In the Sonic Advance trilogy, Knuckles is either playable from the start, or you beat him up/ help him and he joins up with you. Weren't you the one who explained that Knuckles helped Sonic after being defeated because he wanted to get revenge on Eggman? And if not in Advance 2, he's just there from the get-go. 

 

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this perspective. Your contradicting yourself on several instances...

I agree with your Heroes point, but Knuckles exact quote in 06 is "I saw Eggman on the outskirts of the city. He wanted me to give this to you." Unless Angel Island is on the outskirts of Soleanna, its a contradiction.

It isn't necessarily a contradiction. Knuckles may just be goofing off again. 

[FireBird75]

Where is this all going?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Where is this all going?

Another failed attempt to drag other games down to 06's level, I'm afraid.

It does make sense. Eggman gives Knuckles a card to give to Sonic, Knuckles gets concerned and figures something is up. He gives it Sonic, and decides to help him out as doing so would help save the world.

 

Not so, since the other games mentioned have their established reasons for Knuckles to be on the scene, by means of worldy threats or Knuckles tagging along with Sonic from the get-go, etc. What Sonic 06 lacks is an established reason for Knuckles to have been in Solenna and Knuckles' actions in-game holding any weight or value.

 

Unless you can provide a proven, established reason for such, you cannot deny the difference in the situations.

 

The same goes for your conjecture, DBZHedgy.

[DBZHedgy]

Another failed attempt to drag other games down to 06's level, I'm afraid.

Not Necessarily. The games we're conversing of were already on this "level" of which you speak.(Or Lower for that Matter) At least when it comes to the principle we're discussing now.

 

Also, I feel that you confused Jolt_TH's initial statement.

Before 06 Knuckles had only been seen in Heroes really without the emerald, although the opening is seen with him in the tornado, it's possible he was picked up by him ad in shadow he was defending the ruins from a worldwide threat. He just appears for no reason in 06 and does nothing of value.

 

Not so, since the other games mentioned have their established reasons for Knuckles to be on the scene, by means of worldy threats or Knuckles tagging along with Sonic from the get-go, etc. What Sonic 06 lacks is an established reason for Knuckles to have been in Solenna and Knuckles' actions in-game holding any weight or value.

 

Unless you can provide a proven, established reason for such, you cannot deny the difference in the situations.

 

The same goes for your conjecture, DBZHedgy.

If you say that Knuckles is of absolutely no importance here(06), and all of the appearances mentioned beforehand do indeed give feasible background knowledge as to why Knuckles should be there, as well as not contradicting his back-story of "Protecting the Master Emerald" (Pfffffft!), Plus giving him a purpose of being there, then please compare the results I've gathered below, and answer to me how 06 Knuckles does something of less value than these. Not only that, but keeping true to Jolt_TH's point about Knuckles NOT doing anything of importance BEFORE Sonic 06 as well as during said appearance. That and the fact that he does not Ignore the Master Emerald before 06 as well other than Heroes. Do Tread Lightly.

 

#1- Sonic Triple Trouble

In this Game, Knuckles once again, interferes with Sonic, as well as Helping Eggman collect the emeralds (According to the manual). If this is correct that would mean that Knuckles isn't being a help at all in saving anything much less being of any use to anyone other than the antagonists. Not only that, but he also ignores his post as being the Master Emerald guardian. Now, while Knuckles isn't doing a good job at following through with his earlier character development in Sonic and Knuckles, he does do something of importance here. Not that it's anything groundbreaking, because it isn't as if the whole game revolves around him like it did in Sonic 3 &/ Knuckles. He's just a minor annoyance, the opposite of his role in 06, a minor assistance.

 

#2- Sonic R 

There isn't much to say about Knux in this game. He just pops up and starts to race because he sees that Sonic is racing. Now tell me. How exactly is this of any relevancy to anything in the story, much less himself, if he doesn't do ANYTHING, except race? It isn't to say that Knuckles came to HELP Sonic and Tails find the Chaos Emeralds, Nope, just came to race. 

 

#3- Sonic Shuffle

First off, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles AND Amy, are all together before they are teleported to Maginaryworld. I think that statement speaks for itself. So, we have a defenseless Master Emerald, in an entirely different plane of existence. Then, on top of that, when asked to help save MaginaryWorld, What does the guardian of Angel Island, the protector of the Master Emerald that's in another world mind you, say? 

 

"I've got Nothing better to Do"

 

Case in Point.

 

#4- Sonic Advance

In this game, Knuckles helps Sonic fight Eggman... and that's it. Whoop-de-doo.

 

#5- Sonic Advance 2

Once again, Knuckles pops up and DELIBERATELY conflicts Sonic, by being ONCE AGAIN, tricked by Eggman/Robotnik. Afterwards he just hangs with Sonic to help him. again. 

 

#6- Sonic Advance 3

So in this game, Knuckles is available from the start correct?

Then that would mean that he is capable of supplying his assistance, correct?

Ok, I can deal with that. BUT, due to Knuckles' carelessness, the Master Emerald is taken by Eggman. With Knuckles No-where to be seen (If not Selected). That means that Knuckles supplied his help, while knowing the Master Emerald Needed protection but didn't care anyway, and left to HELP SONIC. With whatever it is he had to be doing.

 

#7- Sonic Rush

Alright, in this Game, Knuckles is present, however he ISN'T helping Sonic, nor did he offer to help Sonic in anyway. Not only that, but Knuckles ISN'T guarding the Master Emerald either! Not only is he not doing anything of use, but he's steadily goofing off just wandering around until he met Blaze! 

 

#8- Sonic Riders

Once Again, Racing for no particular reason. In all honesty though. Knuckles doesn't do ANYTHING. TAILS is the one who explains the Babylonian junk this time. The only reason Knuckles is there, is to race in the grand prix, and that's only because SONIC is doing it. Oh Yea, and he ALSO isn't watching the master Emerald.

 

#9- Sonic Riders Zero Gravity

Contrary to the Riders' counterpart, Knuckles role is a bit more important. When he translates the hieroglyphs they learn that the Arks of Cosmos are Babylonian energy sources. He also translates something else, but I forget. 

Either way, Knuckles translates a practically useless piece of information.

 

#10- Sonic 06

As you already know. Knuckles brings Sonic a card as a request from Eggman. In doing this, Knuckles informs Sonic of where he needs to go to save the Princess of Soleanna, which mind you contain the flames of disaster inside her. Which is the other half of an Omnipresent, Multidimensional, and Omniscient being. And the other half of said being is actively trying to collect the chaos emeralds and fuse with his other half to destroy/absorb Time itself. Oh, yea, nothing useful. NDB. And on top of that, Knuckles was there to help gather the chaos emeralds to revive Sonic, one of the only beings who COULD stop Solaris and restore time.

 

Useless? Nothing of Value? As if!

 

And don't even get me started on the games POST-06.

[Jolt_TH]

DBZHedgey I do like how you are using all spin off games to back up your point.

Triple Trouble: Handheld, canonicity is vague, not main series.

Sonic R: there is no story, it's a spinoff

Sonic Shiffle: it's a spin off, non canon game

Sonic Advance Series: again Handheld, canonicity is questionable, not generally seen as main series, also Dimps m aren't known for their research.

Sonic Rush: again canonicity is vague, and again dimps

Sonic Riders Series: again this is a spin off series with no bearing on the main series.

So you are trying to prove your point by dragging other games (not to mention the really obscure ones that aren't even main series) into the debate?

Also giving the card could have been gotten rid of completely and Eggman could have told sonic himself rather than have K culled deliver a card.

Also way to take it out of context, that was part of my discussion with Kenny as another point to back up 06 as an intended reboot of the series.

Also all games POST 06, if you have been looking around this forum, especially the Knuckles thread, you will see people constantly calling out SEGA's inability to mention the Master Emerald or Angel Island regarding Knuckles, heck even about rad red's inclusion (given this only really applies to Lost a World and Generations)

[DBZHedgy]

 

DBZHedgey I do like how you are using all spin off games to back up your point.

Triple Trouble: Handheld, canonicity is vague, not main series.
Sonic R: there is no story, it's a spinoff
Sonic Shiffle: it's a spin off, non canon game
Sonic Advance Series: again Handheld, canonicity is questionable, not generally seen as main series, also Dimps m aren't known for their research.
Sonic Rush: again canonicity is vague, and again dimps
Sonic Riders Series: again this is a spin off series with no bearing on the main series.

Hold on a second there pal. You were JUST complaining about Blaze's back-story being retconned in Sonic 06, and you even went as far as to say that Izuika (Gosh, I have no idea how to spell his name correctly :s) even said himself that SONIC RUSH, the game you just said had vague continuity was indeed Canonical.

 

And for the record, each and every one of those games contain a story within the manual.

 

So you are trying to prove your point by dragging other games (not to mention the really obscure ones that aren't even main series) into the debate?

Other than those, Knuckles shoes up 3 other times before Sonic 06, and those all deal with the Master Emerald. You were the one was painting it out to seem like Sonic 06 is the ONLY appearance where Knuckles ignores the Emerald.

 

Also giving the card could have been gotten rid of completely and Eggman could have told sonic himself rather than have K culled deliver a card.

We aren't conversing of whether or not it can be changed to keep knuckles out of it. We're conversing of Knuckles' relevancy in the game. And he played his part pretty well, in Helping Sonic (Something he did on a regular basis at the time), and to make matters even worse, I left out a lot of even more miniscule titles like Drift, Blast, and 3D Blast/Flickies Island.

 

(Alternate Response)[Couldn't help myself]

But he didn't did he? No. He gave it to Knuckles, and every since Sonic received the Message, he tagged along like he usually does, because he felt like his assistance was necessary. Don't try to act like since it isn't main series it isn't Canonical. Where is your proof of these games being uncanonical?

 

 

 

Also way to take it out of context, that was part of my discussion with Kenny as another point to back up 06 as an intended reboot of the series.

Whatever do you mean? You made a statement, and I proceeded to respond to it. Regardless of the context, Jova replied and committed to dragging it out to prove the same point that you were trying to make.

 

Also all games POST 06, if you have been looking around this forum, especially the Knuckles thread, you will see people constantly calling out SEGA's inability to mention the Master Emerald or Angel Island regarding Knuckles, heck even about rad red's inclusion (given this only really applies to Lost a World and Generations)

That's exactly what I meant by:

And don't even get me started on the games POST-06.

[Jolt_TH]

Hold on a second there pal. You were JUST complaining about Blaze's back-story being retconned in Sonic 06, and you even went as far as to say that Izuika (Gosh, I have no idea how to spell his name correctly :s) even said himself that SONIC RUSH, the game you just said had vague continuity was indeed Canonical.

Yes, Rush is her backstory, Izukia said so , he never mentioned about canonicity, he said hat was Blaze's backstory, nothing else. We haven't seen her in a main game since 06, a supposed reboot of the canon. Even so, we see knuckles like what, literally once or twice during the story, he runs into Sonic but doesnt tag along for no reason (like he does in Heroes and 06). So we have no idea what e is doing the rest of the story.

And for the record, each and every one of those games contain a story within the manual.

And again, spin offs, self contained story

Other than those, Knuckles shoes up 3 other times before Sonic 06, and those all deal with the Master Emerald. You were the one was painting it out to seem like Sonic 06 is the ONLY appearance where Knuckles ignores the Emerald.

Yes, three times in three main series games in a row where his main objective revolves around the emerald, it was his whole hook during his introduction in Sonic 3 & Sonic & Knuckles. heroes I have already brought up and Shadow Knuckles was helping to defeat a larger World threat, (who coincidentally were not after the Master Emerald for some reason anyway)

We aren't conversing of whether or not it can be changed to keep knuckles out of it. We're conversing of Knuckles' relevancy in the game. And he played his part pretty well, in Helping Sonic (Something he did on a regular basis at the time), and to make matters even worse, I left out a lot of even more miniscule titles like Drift, Blast, and 3D Blast/Flickies Island.

No my point was that he wasn't relevant to the story. Heck SONIC isn't even relevant to the story. there was nothing that knuckles did that couldn't have been done by anyone else, especially since it contradicts his given backstory (like Heroes) where he is meant to be guarding an all powerful Gem that can control the 7 plot maguffins. Even then the part you quoted was from a different discussion about Sonic 06's potential reboot status

(Alternate Response)[Couldn't help myself]

But he didn't did he? No. He gave it to Knuckles, and every since Sonic received the Message, he tagged along like he usually does, because he felt like his assistance was necessary. Don't try to act like since it isn't main series it isn't Canonical. Where is your proof of these games being uncanonical?

Yeah he tagged along and didn't guard the emerald like he was supposed to ( evidence of a reboot). And his help resulted in nothing, he didn't do anything, he is there for the sake of being there.

It's pretty well know that Sonic games fall Into two categories: Main series (canonical) and side series' (non-canonical) most major console games are considered Main series and other games are not.

Whatever do you mean? You made a statement, and I proceeded to respond to it. Regardless of the context, Jova replied and committed to dragging it out to prove the same point that you were trying to make.

That's exactly what I meant by:

That's taking something out of context for your argument and trying to bend it so it fits what you want. The context does matter. Even of Jova responded the original statement has still been taken out of context

[FireBird75]

Yes, Rush is her backstory, Izukia said so , he never mentioned about canonicity, he said hat was Blaze's backstory, nothing else. We haven't seen her in a main game since 06, a supposed reboot of the canon. Even so, we see knuckles like what, literally once or twice during the story, he runs into Sonic but doesnt tag along for no reason (like he does in Heroes and 06). So we have no idea what e is doing the rest of the story.

 

Since Rush is Blaze's backstory, it's a pretty safe bet that Sonic Rush is indeed canon.

 

On the subject of Knuckles in 06, well he does give Sonic a card containing Egghead's holographic message.  Yeah Eggman kinda forces Knuckles into the plot.  Afterwards Knuckles does what he can do help (he doesn't really do anything until Flame Core though).  He can help out in an optional mission (okay...).  And he just sort of disappears until Aquatic Base (the final level of Sonic's story).   Finally, in the Last Story, he goes to retrieve a Chaos Emerald to help revive a dead Sonic.

 

So in conclusion, Knux isn't totally useless, but he's only helpful when the plot remembers remembers him and it would have been real easy to revise scenes and the parts where he is featured.  Knux actually wasn't necessary for 06 but since the game decided to include him he at least makes himself useful, if only a little bit.

[DBZHedgy]

Yes, Rush is her backstory, Izukia said so , he never mentioned about canonicity, he said hat was Blaze's backstory, nothing else. We haven't seen her in a main game since 06, a supposed reboot of the canon.

Oh really? Then guess who pops up in 2 mainstream Canonical titles. Blaze the Uncanonical Cat. With Ties to the Sol Dimension (From Colors, her word, and Generations, her Description). 

 

 

Oh GOD it's so BIG!

 

Even so, we see knuckles like what, literally once or twice during the story, he runs into Sonic but doesnt tag along for no reason (like he does in Heroes and 06). So we have no idea what e is doing the rest of the story.

Exactly, No indication of guarding the Emerald either, then after he sees Sonic (Which is after him Meeting Blaze) he goes to vent his anger, instead of guarding the Emerald. 

 

 

 

And again, spin offs, self contained story

Don't try and act like that defense has any weight. Because said "Spin-Offs" are still canonical entries in the franchise. Shadow the Hedgehog is a LITERAL SPIN-OFF(As in taking a different character's perspective), yet you choose to acknowledge it since it's in favor of your statement. So, I'm not buying it. I still haven't seen you come up with anything that de-canonicalizes the games in question. Everything fits.

 

 

 

Yes, three times in three main series games in a row where his main objective revolves around the emerald, it was his whole hook during his introduction in Sonic 3 & Sonic & Knuckles. heroes I have already brought up and Shadow Knuckles was helping to defeat a larger World threat, (who coincidentally were not after the Master Emerald for some reason anyway)

You do realize that by your logic, games like Daxter or Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, are uncanonical towards the Jak & Daxter series, and the Kingdom Hearts series respectively, right?

 

Oh yea, and in those 3 Main series games, Knuckles still neglects the Master Emerald to some degree. Knuckles was going to take the Chaos Emeralds to Sonic for his advice. That doesn't seem like he's to keen on protecting the emerald to well if he's willing to part from his  Sacred duty just to have a lil' chat with Sonniku. In Heroes, Knuckles clearly helps Sonic simply because he KNOWS that Sonic could use his help, willing to once again Neglect his sworn duty just to help out a friend.

 

 

 

No my point was that he wasn't relevant to the story. Heck SONIC isn't even relevant to the story. there was nothing that knuckles did that couldn't have been done by anyone else, especially since it contradicts his given backstory (like Heroes) where he is meant to be guarding an all powerful Gem that can control the 7 plot maguffins. Even then the part you quoted was from a different discussion about Sonic 06's potential reboot status

By that Logic, E-102, isn't relevant to the Story of Sa1.

By that Logic, No one except the Team Leaders in Heroes are relevant to the story.

By that Logic, Knuckles isn't relevant to the Story of Shadow the Hedgehog.

By that Logic, Tails is of no relevance in Sonic Colors.

By that Logic, Tails is of no relevance in Sonic Unleashed.

By that Logic, Luigi is of no relevance to any game him and Mario work together in.

By that Logic, Tails is of no relevance in Sonic 2 or 3.

By that Logic, Eggman is of no relevance in ShTH.

By that Logic, Fi is of no relevance in Skyward Sword,(or insert Zelda partner here)

By that Logic, Donald and Goofy are of no relevance in Kingdom Hearts 1 or 2.

By that Logic, Blaze is of no relevance in Sonic Rush Adventure, Marine as well.

By that Logic, Storm and Wave are of no relevance in Sonic Riders

By that Logic, King Dedede is of no relevance to Kirby Squeak Squad, or really any game for that matter (that feature him as the first boss).

By that Logic, Gohan is of no relevance to the Saiyan Saga in Dragonball Z.

I can go on all day.

 

All of these characters simply assist in the greater cause.

That doesn't mean their worth being ignored entirely. So therefore Knuckles shouldn't in Sonic 06.

 

 

 

Yeah he tagged along and didn't guard the emerald like he was supposed to ( evidence of a reboot). And his help resulted in nothing, he didn't do anything, he is there for the sake of being there.

It's pretty well know that Sonic games fall Into two categories: Main series (canonical) and side series' (non-canonical) most major console games are considered Main series and other games are not.

He is there for the sake of assisting the main character. *see the above statement(s)*

So, since Shadow features Knuckles with no word about the Master Emerald that means it doesn't exist? That means he doesn't have the job of protecting it? 

 

That... doesn't provide evidence of the games in question being un-canonical so... not sure where you were going with that...

 

 

 

That's taking something out of context for your argument and trying to bend it so it fits what you want. The context does matter. Even of Jova responded the original statement has still been taken out of context 

How? I didn't shove your quote in Jova's face making it contradict his own statement. He was simply trying to assert your statement since you were absent, after I commented on it. Using something out of context requires me to USE it. All I did was respond to it, and he backed it. That isn't taking it out of context at all. :/

 

You said, Knuckles is in Sonic 06 randomly, and for no real reason.

Then I said, But he's in these games "randomly" as well.

 

There was no use of it out of context.

On the subject of Knuckles in 06, well he does give Sonic a card containing Egghead's holographic message.  Yeah Eggman kinda forces Knuckles into the plot.  Afterwards Knuckles does what he can do help (he doesn't really do anything until Flame Core though).  He can help out in an optional mission (okay...).  And he just sort of disappears until Aquatic Base (the final level of Sonic's story).   Finally, in the Last Story, he goes to retrieve a Chaos Emerald to help revive a dead Sonic.

 

So in conclusion, Knux isn't totally useless, but he's only helpful when the plot remembers remembers him and it would have been real easy to revise scenes and the parts where he is featured.  Knux actually wasn't necessary for 06 but since the game decided to include him he at least makes himself useful, if only a little bit.

And the characters mentioned in that list above, could also be reworked to be out of the story easily. 

Simply because their role is miniscule it doesn't mean that they aren't a help to the characters in general.

 

However, I can generally agree with this statement.