New Super Mario Bros. Wii

[Solly]

Wow, the level design looks a lot more intricate than I expected.

[SuperLink]

*sigh*, the music is just as bad as I feared.

Pretty much the same.

This isn't a new Mario game, it's using the theme song from the DS game! ' Pathetic

Other than that I have to admit the stages look quite fun.

Edited October 16, 2009 by SuperLink

[PSI Wind]

^ So Jap.SMB2 and other Mario games with many remixed songs aren't new to your logic.

[Dr. Mechano]

This isn't a new Mario game,

Yes it is. New levels/powerups/bosses makes a new game.

it's using the theme song from the DS game!

No it isn't. It's an arrangement, however similar it is. Go back and listen to the DS theme, and then listen to this. They aren't exactly the same.

Of course, even if they were, reusing music would not negate NSMB Wii's status as a new Mario game.

[SuperLink]

No it isn't. It's an arrangement, however similar it is. Go back and listen to the DS theme, and then listen to this. They aren't exactly the same.

Oh come off it, who cares if it's an arrangement? The DS game has arrangements in it! Brawl uses an arrangement as a tribute to the DS game, but this is meant to be a new game.

Did Mario Bros 3 use Mario Bros 1's music? No. Did Mario World use Mario Bros 3's? No. Did Mario 64? No, you get the point. It's not the game that bugs me, it's the lazy attitude, they can't be bothered to program in extra character skins, they can't be bothered to add online play (unless they give us a REAL reason why it didn't work), they can't be bothered to even compose new music! Which had to be one of the sole reasons I didn't buy Animal Crossing Wii.

Worst of all, it'll be full price.

Edited October 16, 2009 by SuperLink

[Candescence]

Just one arranged tune doesn't automatically disqualify it as a new game, dammit. Anyway, the stages look very sweet.

Did Mario Bros 3 use Mario Bros 1's music? No. Did Mario World use Mario Bros 3's? No. Did Mario 64? No, you get the point. It's not the game that bugs me, it's the lazy attitude, they can't be bothered to program in extra character skins, they can't be bothered to add online play (unless they give us a REAL reason why it didn't work), they can't be bothered to even compose new music! Which had to be one of the sole reasons I didn't buy Animal Crossing Wii.

Miyamoto DID give the real reason why online wasn't included. Some of his answers were intentionally humourous, but still.

"We could have made an online Mario game, but the effort and resources you devote to putting it online will result in sacrificing something else. This type of experience is better suited for the face to face, in the same room experience. Of course, in the future there's the possibility of exploring remote connectivity in a Mario game."

The music and the look is mainly to make things familiar to the people who played the DS game, I believe.

Edited October 16, 2009 by The Sniper

[SuperLink]

The whole game uses the arranged tune though. It's like an expansion pack for the DS game, which arranged the tune for different types of stages, rather than an all new one.

If Mario Galaxy 2 uses the same music I will not be happy at all =_= this is a disgusting habit for Nintendo to get into.

So Jap.SMB2 and other Mario games with many remixed songs aren't new to your logic.

Yes because obviously game development hasn't evolved over the last 20 years, of course sequels are allowed to be "the first game with different stages".

As for remixed songs, that's different when the entirety of the soundtrack is entirely new compositions.

Edited October 16, 2009 by SuperLink

[Dr. Mechano]

Oh come off it, who cares if it's an arrangement?

I do!

Did Mario Bros 3 use Mario Bros 1's music?

Yes. The underground theme was an upbeat remix of SMB's underground theme.

Also, the music box played a cutesy rendition of the SMB overworld theme.

Did Mario World use Mario Bros 3's?

No, although it did throw in the SMB overworld theme for the Special Zone map if you waited around a bit!

Did Mario 64?

SMB Overworld - Title

SMB Underground - Hazy Maze Cave, Wet Dry World, miscellaneous cave areas within levels

they can't be bothered to even compose new music!

I just don't see the issue here. NSMB Wii, as a direct sequel to NSMB, seems to be trying to intentionally retain many of the first game's thematic elements- The same colorful visual style, and the same basic melody for its musical score. It's not unlike the Japanese SMB2 (which outright reused the music without bothering to make arrangements) in this way, which was also heralded as being much more challenging than the original despite its similar appearance.

Worst of all, it'll be full price.

I think it'll be worth it, personally, but that's more of a preferential judgment and not something I can really debate the merit of, so... I'll just agree to disagree here.

[Candescence]

The whole game uses the arranged tune though. It's like an expansion pack for the DS game, which arranged the tune for different types of stages, rather than an all new one.

If Mario Galaxy 2 uses the same music I will not be happy at all =_= this is a disgusting habit for Nintendo to get into.

Dude, did you even watch the videos? There are multiple instances where the music is entirely different.

Also, the Animal Crossing argument barely holds water, yes, ACWii was practically the same game as Wild World with the city added on, but this, besides some arranged tunes, is a new game, entirely new levels, new features, new powerups, a metric ton of fanservice that wasn't in the DS game, you get my point.

Edited October 16, 2009 by The Sniper

[SuperLink]

Dude, did you even watch the videos? There are multiple instances where the music is entirely different.

Multiple meaning a few, the grand majority of the music I heard were just re-arrangements of the DS theme I despise so much.

I just don't see the issue here. NSMB Wii, as a direct sequel to NSMB, seems to be trying to intentionally retain many of the first game's thematic elements- The same colorful visual style, and the same basic melody for its musical score. It's not unlike the Japanese SMB2 (which outright reused the music without bothering to make arrangements) in this way, which was also heralded as being much more challenging than the original despite its similar appearance.

Which like I said to PSI, doesn't count because game development should have evolved over the last 20 years, so that new games are actually... new.

Edited October 16, 2009 by SuperLink

[Candescence]

Which like I said to PSI, doesn't count because game development should have evolved over the last 20 years, so that new games are actually... new.

Apparently not.

[SuperLink]

Why does it have to be an expansion pack though? You can't just excuse it as that and let it all off, it's lazyness. Why can't it be an actually new game?

And I read the snippets of the Miyamoto interview, man, what a funny guy! His excuse for the lack of online was pretty much "we didn't have the development time to try and implement it properly", and his excuse for characters was pretty much "we couldn't be bothered", ono Peach's dress, whateverwillwedoo. His reason for not using Wario couldn't have been less of a real answer, considering Wario has only ever farted as a part of one game, and he wasn't even the main character in it!

Yes, tiny development time.

EDIT: Sorry for being so annoying about this, but I just don't get why other people aren't seeing the lazyness here. This is Nintendo we're talking about, they're meant to be God Tier developers, they're meant to go the extra friggin' mile. "That God Tier development went into great stage design" you may say, but since when have we had to settle for just one aspect of a Nintendo game being great?

Edited October 16, 2009 by SuperLink

[Remy]

EDIT: Sorry for being so annoying about this, but I just don't get why other people aren't seeing the lazyness here. This is Nintendo we're talking about, they're meant to be God Tier developers, they're meant to go the extra friggin' mile. "That God Tier development went into great stage design" you may say, but since when have we had to settle for just one aspect of a Nintendo game being great?

Since the Gamecube permanently lowered everyone's standards for Nintendo.

[SuperLink]

Since the Gamecube permanently lowered everyone's standards for Nintendo.

Disagree, GC GBA and DS are my favourite Nintendo platforms ever, but I think Nintendo have gotten sloppy with Wii stuff (other than Galaxy). I mean so far the Wii has 2 inhouse Nintendo games which have tons of content from DS predecessors, and that just shouldn't happen.

[Dr. Mechano]

Which like I said to PSI, doesn't count because game development should have evolved over the last 20 years, so that new games are actually... new.

Arranging previously-used music does not discredit the game itself from being new. New games can have old elements while themselves still being new.

Mario is a series that constantly moves forward, while simultaneously clinging to its past. Although it evolves, it's a series that absolutely thrives on its ability to evoke nostalgia by means of referencing its older works. And to many fans, myself included, this is good.

Would I have liked a new "main theme" melody for the game? Sure. But its absence isn't something that terribly bothers me, since I like the NSMB theme and welcome new arrangements thereof.

Granted, to this day, my favorite main theme is the overworld stage music for Super Mario World, eclipsing even Super Mario Bros. in my mind as the catchiest Mario music around.

[speedfreak]

We're back to this again? I personally don't care about there not being any online play. In fact I don't care about ANY Nintendo game having online play. They need to get their act together next console generation because for the Wii their online structure sucks. Yeah Mario Kart Wii was okay but once you've played online on the 360 you can't go back to Nintendo's basic set up. Or at least I can't. So the no online play isn't a factor for me. After the HUGE disappointment of Brawl online I've basically given up on Nintendo online games. Remember how laggy Brawl could get? You know even the slightest bit of lag online would fuck the entire experience up for NSMBW right?

Now remixed Music, I like it. I like the NSMB theme and it seems the only reason you're complaining is because you didn't like the NSMB them to begin with. If it had been a theme you liked I'm sure you have enjoyed the remixes, or at the very least you wouldn't have made such a big deal over it. I mean really, remixed music means this isn't a new Mario game, REALLY? Sounds like hyperbole to me. Also there were a few different songs in the trailer. Which leads us to believe that the final game will have even more different songs. You're jumping the gun on judging the music.

I'm curious, have you heard the Mario & Sonic Winter Olympics remix of the NSMB theme? I think it's the best version of it. Do you hate this version as well?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDe1hkFcYsY

As for other playable character, I agree that more = better. I would have loved to play through as Peach. While Miyamoto's excuse does sound kinda lame there might be so truth to it. The Princess is a fair bit taller then Mario or Luigi and her dress sticks out enough to make her a fair bit wider too. So perhaps her hit box would have had to be different. I guess they couldn't do that because they want everyone to be on an even playing field. It's true that Mario and Luigi are bigger then Toads but as Miyamoto said the Toads are more comparable in size to the Bros. then Peach is.

Check bottom left to see what I mean.

I'm sure they could have found away around whatever the problem was, so it could very well be laziness. It is what it is though and not being able to play as Peach didn't hurt my enjoyment of Mario 1, 3, World, 64, NSMBDS, Galaxy, etc. and it won't here by much either.

Anyway after seeing those new trailers I don't understand how anyone who was a fan of classic Mario couldn't feel at least a little excited. Oh well, I'm hyped.

[Agent York]

OK, I am getting tired of people saying this is simply some rehash. I know I can't convince people who are stuck up with it, but I am seriously not understanding what the freaking big deal is.

The differences between this game and the original DS game is about the same as the differences between Halo 1, 2, and 3. Bioshock 1 and 2. Assassin's Creed 1 and 2. And hundreds of other examples I could give.

Everything in this game was created from the GROUND-UP. It was just STYLIZED like the DS game so it could be FAMILIAR. NOTHING was rehashed. The graphics are original, and YES they actually are good, especially with recent reports that though everything LOOKS 2D, it is actually 3D stylized to look like 2D. The music is original. The stages are original. The bosses are original.

The only thing not original is the concept, but that's because it's a fucking sequel. You can dislike the game's style, but don't start spouting nonsense of laziness only because at a glance it looks like it's predecessor. It's supposed too, that's why it's called "New Super Mario Bros Wii" because it's New Super Mario Bros... On the Wii. What a concept!

This is a new game styled after an old game. That is something the industry calls a "sequel".

A sequel can be completely different. HOWEVER, a sequel can also be mostly the same. If you're not up for this, that's all fine and dandy. However, when sources everywhere are loving it and having a blast with the game, with the graphics are noticeably nicer from a few months ago and you can actually see the difference, and if you can't wrap your mind around fun in-room multiplayer, then you're just being ignorant because all you see is the first game in a new paint coat. No, the game is a sequel, and nothing suggests it's rehashing levels, graphics, it is rearranging the music originally probably with some new tracks too, the only point I agree with is I wish there was online but I do have people here to play with.

If a harder new "New Super Mario Bros" for home console and 4-player co-op support with all new original content is not for you, so be it. Just stop whining this is laziness when obviously it's not.

[Indigo Rush]

Friend added.

This hate is senseless. I agree fully.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Max Goof

[PSI Wind]

New music:

for the Koopa Kids!

[Agent York]

New music:

for the Koopa Kids!

I will say the game sparks my interest a little more with each new gameplay video. It continues to look exactly like I imagined it as, New Super Mario Bros mixed with Legend of Zelda Four Sword Adventures. Believe me, that's a good thing.

Also, I find the player playing as Luigi hilarious for some reason.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Dusk the Crypt Keeper

[Indigo Rush]

New music:

for the Koopa Kids!

That's AWESOME!

IndigoDude is pleased.

[SuperLink]

Yeah you're right, I just don't like the NSMB theme at all, but even if they reused the Mario World theme as the main theme I would still put it down to lazyness. Besides, I liked most of the Animal Crossing Wild World music, but not composing many/any new music at all is just something that really gets up my grill.

Do Halo 1, 2 and 3 all have pretty much the same music for stages? Nope, they have the Halo main theme, but that's like the SMB theme, it's current throughout the series, and isn't just used for an individual game in the series like NSMB's theme was meant to be.

Really, anymore I don't have a problem with the graphics, or gameplay, the stages themselves actually look pretty original and it looks like they're well thought out, probably even better than NSMB's. It's just the fact that they couldn't be "bothered" to implement a proper new soundtrack, other characters or online gameplay, whereas NSMB's PS3 counterpart LBP has tons of different character appearances, a big soundtrack, loads of fun stages and the ability to create, share and play online.

Both games available for the same price.

[speedfreak]

LBP is great, but (please don't kill me for this) I felt the actual platforming aspect didn't touch Mario.

Also the box art has changed a bit. It's going to be completely red. No white like a typical Wii box. I couldn't find a NA pic but expect it to look like this except with different age rating logos and such.

I actually like it a lot better like this. It really stands out. Should get people's attention on shelves.

Edited October 16, 2009 by speedfreak

[Dr. Mechano]

...It just dawned on me. Yellow Toad and Blue Toad aren't new, lazy, "made up" characters for this game.

They're most likely from the Toad Brigade, which appeared as nonplayable (and nigh useless) sidekicks in Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy. If this is the case, that's pretty cool, even if somewhat obscure.

[Solly]

LBP is great, but (please don't kill me for this) I felt the actual platforming aspect didn't touch Mario

I'll second that emotion.

Little Big Planet is a great game, and there's a lot to see with even more you can make yourself. Unfortunately though, I often found myself shouting at my t.v saying that if it controlled more like Mario, I could've made that jump. It's a platform game with some of the most annoying jumps I've ever seen. Otherwise, as fun as it is, much of it is pretty forgettable.

Would I love a level editor in Mario? Hell yes. That doesn't mean I feel LBP should have set the standard with what they did though.

I also don't think it's right to just deem LBP as NSMB's "counterpart". They both HAPPEN to be platformers, yes but if you're looking at it that way, you're just going to be holding the games against each other instead of judging them on their own merit.