Pokemon Black & White 2 [DS]

[Salamander]

Pokemon Black 2 and Pokemon White 2? ...Yeah, alright. At least it's not called Grey, haha! Unless Grey is a fifth version on the 3DS or something, but that'd just be ridiculous. It's weird though. Those two new Kyurem forms have such an obvious yin-yang motif that it seems as if it'd be easy to make them into a single Pokemon. Maybe that'll happen anyway and there'll be a secret fused form. Wouldn't be surprised.

I admit, I did wonder how they were going to combine some of the conflicting parts of Black and White into a new game - like that one city that's an ancient ruin in one version and hyper-modern in the other. Or bringing Black City and White Forest together. I guess the answer is that they're not going to! I hope that Black 2 and White 2 will be even more different, therefore, from both each other and their originals, because the existence of three versions of every game is already pretty mockable, and four just looks even more ludicrous. Black and White did a slightly better job of differentiating themselves than previous generations, and Black 2 and White 2 had better evolve even further.

With that said, I don't think there'll be any significant, absolutely stand-out new content - these won't be true sequels, as some people have speculated. Why? Because they're on the DS. There's really no reason not to move to the 3DS at this point, given that that's where all of Nintendo's attention is now and is what they'll want to sell more of. Putting a title on the DS now says "niche," even with the 3DS's backwards-compatibility. It looks to me like they didn't want to do an upgrade significant enough to meet the 3DS's power, and are saving that for the sixth gen.

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing more about how the legendaries work out, and other differences. I got Black the first time around, but should I get Black 2 or White 2? We shall see.

[Thigolf]

I just realized: In the logos, the Black 2 one has a blue thing like the lightnings of Zekrom, while the White 2 one has the red fire of Reshiram, so does that mean they switched the roles? Like, Zekrom is the mascot of Black 2 and Reshiram the mascot of White 2?

[-Mark-]

Pokemon Black and White 2? On the original DS? Did I hear that right? Pokemon Grey could have got away with being a DS game. New games... less so (although I am kind of wondering if these 'sequels' will just be the equivalent of Grey but split in two again to double the income).

Sweet Jesus. How lazy are Game Freak and how little business sense do Nintendo have? Yes, it's true that the DS has a much larger user base than the 3DS at the moment, but the problem is that the console, much like the Wii, is also dead on its feet (although arguably slightly less so than the Wii is, but still). Sure, the 3DS can still play DS games, but that's not really the point.

I suppose I should be surprised, really. The 3DS is powerful enough that Game Freak really have no means of justifying sticking to exactly the same formula. But still, watch the eventual 3DS Pokemon games be exactly the same with prettier graphics anyway. Even though they should use the jump to 3DS as a chance to overhaul the series completely and start the game engine from scratch, they won't. It's like you can hear the developers cowering in terror at the prospect of not being able to slightly-tweak the same game again and having to do a teardown for the 3DS.

Pokemon as a series really frustrates me. Not that it isn’t good, but because it has the potential to be so much more than it is. I want a proper 3D world. Sure, Black and White were technically 3D, but there’s really no point to that when it's little more than a visual effect and the game still confines you to walking in tiles just like the originals did. Even if it’s still top-down, I want to feel like I’m playing a new game, rather than the same game I played when I was 13 with some small tweaks a new coat of paint. Why even have separate battle screens? If the whole game is properly rendered in 3D, just have the camera pan down to a behind-the-shoulder view and have the battle start right then and there where you are. That's just the tip of the iceberg. There's so much that could be done with the series, yet Game Freak are sticking pathetically to 'it's not broken, don't fix it'; if that logic were true of everything, we'd all still be using CRT TVs and mobile phones from fifteen years ago. Sure, they work fine, but there comes a point where you have to accept that it belongs in a museum and needs changing.

For a series where evolution is a key concept, it sure is almost embarrassingly resistant to progress. Seriously, if 3DS Pokemon doesn’t have any kind of significant overhaul, I think I just might throw in the towel with the series.

That said, I suppose business sense doesn't apply to Pokemon. The franchise prints money to the point where their complacency is sadly perfectly justified.

TL:DR; For crying out loud Pokemon, man up and actually give yourself an overhaul for once. The 3DS is here and you've got no excuse for releasing the same tweaked game with a new lick of paint over and over. The DS is dying and will be even moreso by the time these release. Why do these games exist (or at least, why on the DS)?

EDIT: Also, did I mention that nothing screams "We're running out of ideas" more than the names 'Black 2' and 'White 2'? Almost makes me wonder what they actually will call the inevitable 3DS games...

EDIT 2: Also if the next gen/ eventual 3DS games don't have a simple mass-transfer option for Pokemon, I will freak. I must have spent almost a whole day moving every single Pokemon from my copy of HeartGold to my copy of White. For crying out loud Pokemon, don't make me work so hard just to move over things I've already done.

Edited February 26, 2012 by -Mark-

[Candescence]

I find the above rant amusing when I already stated my theory that Game Freak are giving Gen 6 the much-wanted overhaul in question. If Game Freak wanted to do 'more of the same' on the 3DS, we would've gotten Black and White as 3DS exclusives. Gen 5's proximity to the 3DS' launch just feels like it's one big stop-gap to tide us over while Game Freak take the much-needed time to overhaul the mechanics.

[Salamander]

I just realized: In the logos, the Black 2 one has a blue thing like the lightnings of Zekrom, while the White 2 one has the red fire of Reshiram, so does that mean they switched the roles? Like, Zekrom is the mascot of Black 2 and Reshiram the mascot of White 2?

Well, it looks more like Black Kyurem will be the mascot of Black 2 and White Kyurem the mascot of White 2. So... possibly? Assuming you get the version mascot, as makes sense and is usually the case, it would seem you'd have to get Kyurem and Zekrom in Black 2 and Kyurem and Reshiram in White 2, which looks like a swap. From a narrative perspective, this makes sense; N gets one of the legendary dragons, you get the other, you're equally matched - oh but look, suddenly you get the magical Kyurem fusion and have more power, and therefore, on a philosophical level which doesn't actually make sense, have the power of right on your side. But there may be plot shenanigans that render the comparison moot. I've heard it suggested (here, possibly? I forget) that the mascots have been swapped so that you can buy the Version 2 of the game you originally got and get the version legendary you missed the first time. And I think that would be a good idea.

[-Mark-]

I find the above rant amusing when I already stated my theory that Game Freak are giving Gen 6 the much-wanted overhaul in question. If Game Freak wanted to do 'more of the same' on the 3DS, we would've gotten Black and White as 3DS exclusives. Gen 5's proximity to the 3DS' launch just feels like it's one big stop-gap to tide us over while Game Freak take the much-needed time to overhaul the mechanics.

Yes, but with all due respect, your theory is just that; a theory- yes, it could be (and I'm very much hoping) that it's the case, but in all honesty, Pokemon and Nintendo don't exactly have a very good track record when it comes to this sort of thing, so you'll have to excuse me if I'm more than a little skeptical in regards to giving them the benefit of the doubt.

At this stage, I'm still pretty much expecting the 3DS Pokemon games to be more of the same yet again. The line between old and new is a very tricky balancing act; change too much and you risk putting off people. Too much familiarity and it's just more of the same.

Of course, fingers crossed I'm completely wrong and have totally misjudged them. Only time will tell.

Edited February 26, 2012 by -Mark-

[Candescence]

Fair enough, yes, I only provided a theory. But it feels to me that any other explanation wouldn't make sense - why forgo making Black and White 3DS exclusive when they would've been system sellers by themselves?

If Game Freak wanted to overhaul the mechanics, especially the battle system, they would need time to get it right, and plenty of it. It took six years to develop Red and Blue, after all.

[Salamander]

Before this announcement, I figured that either Grey or the speculative third-gen remakes would be testbeds for major overhauls of the series for the 3DS. But putting BW2 on the DS... well, firstly, it shows that the sixth-gen games, when they do come, will be the first 3DS main Pokemon titles, and given that 3DS games will be the norm by then, GameFreak will know they'll need to be impressive to stand out from the crowd... so yeah, I think if they were just going to make lacklustre 3DS games, they'd have shoehorned BW2 onto the 3DS anyway. I agree that it's all up in the air right now, but I do think they're going to make at the very least a big graphical jump for sixth gen. A jump in other areas - maybe. I'm not really sure what needs completely reconceiving rather than just tweaking.

[Marcello]

Gen 6, on the other hand, may in fact be a complete overhaul of the game mechanics, possibly even a real-time battle system that fans have been clamoring for years.

If that would happen, which I doubt, I'd most likely stop playing Pokemon.

[Thigolf]

Same here. The strategic, turn based battling against other players is the thing that makes Pokémon so interesting to me. A battle screen like in Stadium or Battle Revolution would be just fine.

Besides, we already got two real-time battle games, Pokemon Rumble and Super Pokemon Rumble/Pokemon Rumble Blast.

[Candescence]

I know many people would keep things turn-based, but... Just as many people are convinced that the games are getting stale. Things are gonna have to change eventually.

Also, this was just pointed out on Retro - Creatures, Inc, who does the 3D Pokemon games, are usually co-credited for the development of the main series games alongside Game Freak. The 3DS Pokedex indicates that every single 3D model for every Unova Pokemon is already done, and the Battle Revolution engine already exists. Why would Game Freak and Creatures, Inc hold out on a 3DS title unless they were working on something really special?

Edited February 26, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Salamander]

If that would happen, which I doubt, I'd most likely stop playing Pokemon.

One man's fixed is another man's broken. How far can you change the core gameplay before it stops being Pokemon and starts being a glorified spin-off? This is a concern I have too. I honestly think that turn-based battling or something like that is probably the best for Pokemon, given the importance of strategy and the sheer number of battles you have to go through. However, that doesn't mean you can't enhance battle graphics and layout. Or get rid of random battles and replace them with something like Dragon Quest IX's system. Or make it so you can skip random battles if the opponent is so much weaker than y ou. I don't think they'd get rid of turn-based battles, but I do think they might make some of the other changes I outlined. Change can itself be blind, though. Radical change is not, by default, superior to keeping things as they are. You can say that the series is getting stale, but is that really reflected in the sales? Do the opinions of people who have long stopped being part of GameFreak's target audience outweigh the views of a juvenile audience who might only have played one or none before?

[Zarakai]

Me personally cannot wait for the Pokemon Black and White 2, the new Kyurem forms look great and I really enjoyed the original Black and White apart from the fact some of the new pokemon did look stupid.

[Cola]

Me personally cannot wait for the Pokemon Black and White 2, the new Kyurem forms look great and I really enjoyed the original Black and White apart from the fact some of the new pokemon did look stupid.

I think I know why. If my memory serves correctly...

All original 151 Pokemon were designed by Ken Sugimori, starting with either Rhydon or Rhyhorn.

For Gen 5, the Pokemon are designed by others, but approved by Sugimori-san.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Cola

[\Lennox]

I think I know why. If my memory serves correctly...

All original 151 Pokemon were designed by Mr. Ken Sugimori, starting with either Rhydon or Rhyhorn.

For Gen 5, the Pokemon are designed by others, but approved by Sugimori.

Actually, the initial drawings were designed by other people, but to help these designs conform better, Sugimori-sama drew the final ones for use with manuals, guides, websites, merchandising, etc.

For Pokémon Black and White, Sugimori directed a team of 17 people in designing new characters for the games, though he always drew the final design.

That my friends, refutes the nostalgic, oft-repeated-during-every-new-generation theory of Pokémon not looking like Pokémon.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Lennox/Rallen/Gunnar

[Cola]

Actually, the initial drawings were designed by other people, but to help these designs conform better, Sugimori-sama drew the final ones for use with manuals, guides, websites, merchandising, etc.

That my friends, refutes the nostalgic, oft-repeated-during-every-new-generation theory of Pokémon not looking like Pokémon.

They're still designed by others. Even if they're modified to look a bit different and are redrawn by Sugimori-san, they're still designed by others. It never changes.

You can change the Pokemon around, but it still has the same base, which may or may not be good. Our friend Garbador is a great example. While it conforms nicely, it can't change the fact that it's badly designed.

[Salamander]

Every generation there are some Pokemon I look at and think "That doesn't look like a Pokemon," but I eventually change my mind when I get used to them. I don't really think it's worth getting worked up over, especially when you look at some of the first-gen Pokemon, which were not exactly designed according to the highest standards of intellectual rigour.

[buba]

I'm still curious on how this will work in terms of sequels.

Will it work like:

1) Pokémon D/P > Pokémon B/W

2) Pokémon D/P > Pokémon Platinum

Well I guess we can only speculate for now but since the game is out in 4 months we should expect information soon.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Tmsp

[Sami]

We're talking about Gen V's Pokemon designs? Not sure why, considering it's Gen. III that looked fucking hideous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otjanp9aXgw

[Noir]

Our friend Garbador is a great example. While it conforms nicely, it can't change the fact that it's badly designed.

[Sami]

I see no problems with Garbador. It was designed to look like a mutated bag of trash and ended up looking like mutated bag of trash. It fits with Gen I's theme of WTFBBQ Mutations perfectly well, in my opinion. Oh, and to anyone who's going to mention Vanillite, I have this to say: Fuck you I like ice cream.

...

Not to mention every Pokemon that's just been mentioned (Garbodor, Voltorb, Muk, Diglett, etc.) still look a damn sight better than this hideous beast:

Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking when they designed that monstrosity?

[Cola]

I see no problems with Garbador. It was designed to look like a mutated bag of trash and ended up looking like mutated bag of trash. It fits with Gen I's theme of WTFBBQ Mutations perfectly well, in my opinion. Oh, and to anyone who's going to mention Vanillite, I have this to say: Fuck you I like ice cream.

...

Not to mention every Pokemon that's just been mentioned (Garbodor, Voltorb, Muk, Diglett, etc.) still look a damn sight better than this hideous beast:

Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking when they designed that monstrosity?

Edited February 26, 2012 by Cola

[buba]

Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking when they designed that monstrosity?

[Marcello]

Beheeyem was cool.

From Gen 3, I really liked Exploud.

[Senator NinjaShark]

Not to mention every Pokemon that's just been mentioned (Garbodor, Voltorb, Muk, Diglett, etc.) still look a damn sight better than this hideous beast:

Seriously, what the fuck were they thinking when they designed that monstrosity?