The Knuckles Topic - Is monkey a Knuckles-butt?

[Rusty Spy]

What Knuckles needs is a "Shadow" development. Something that puts some finality with his role. Unlike someone's feelings about the past, the giant powerful green rock doesn't just disappear. It's there, it can be used as a threat, so you can't just ignore it. So what can Knuckles do? That's the entire point of the topic. Figuring out a way around this apparent paradox of Knuckles as a guardian, and the desire to see him in a main series game without a new contrived reason every time, or without completely ignoring his duties.

The main problem with this is that you are assuming that helping Sonic will always be a detriment to his role as a guardian. This is not true. Eggman is a big enough threat to warrant Knuckles lending a hand.

Think of it this way, if Knuckles DIDN'T help stop Eggman and Eggman somehow WON, Knux isn screwed, since now the biggest threat to the world has succeeded in dooming the planet, and now the Master Emerald is in even MORE danger than if Knuckles had helped stop Eggman BEFORE he became too powerful to directly threaten the Master Emerald.

Obviously from our perspective, Eggman will never win, but in universe, It is a very real possibility that is only avoided through the efforts of the worlds greatest heroes. Through Knuckles' perspective, Eggman could win and take over the world, and while Sonic is more than capable, he has a duty to protect the Master Emerald, and the world, as well as help his friends.

[turbojet]

How would he know that Eggman is up to something unless Sonic and Tails were around him or Eggman did something near him? There is no internet on the island? Sonic and Tails have no incessant need to just bother Knuckles whenever unless we say that they invite him to places to check out which I can totally see that happening.

Tails-"Knuckles, we are going to this new city. Want to come?"

Knuckles-"I have a duty to guard the Emerald guys."

Sonic-"They have grapes."

Knuckles-"I'll pack my things."

No really. It is not that hard to spare dialogue for him leaving the island to have fun, but he has to be seen or heard leaving that island. We know it is a paradox, but lend something to his backstory.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

See this is why I'm surprised at the resistance of this idea.

For several years, we've had people arguing between just having Knuckles around to save the world regardless of the plot's acknowledgement of the ME (and people who support a flat out retcon of it out of existence at the extreme) and those who will allow Knuckles around so long as the plot makes some acknowledgement of said Emerald.

This idea would satistfy those who just want Knuckles around without too much of a care of the ME each and every time, which is what I know you guys have been wanting for the longest. But at the same, there's an acknowledgement of the ME - which is what we wanted for the longest - and that every time guys like us see Knuckles from here on out for an indefinite amount of time, we're no longer asking the question of "why isn't he guarding the Master Emerald on Angel Island?" since the idea render's that moot.

We're constantly hearing, "no one cares, get rid of the Master Emerald" or something similar, except that disregards the fact that there are those who do care since we're arguing about ways to have him involved. Now? We just came up with something that gives you exactly what you wanted (bar retconning the ME, because a number of us don't want that): Knuckles is around, ME's unimportant right now (it's shattered, so no one cares much about it), there's a bigger threat out there so Knuckles is going to stop it.

Look, the gift of the idea is that Knuckles can appear whenever the fuck he wants now without always having someone like me getting anal over why he's there for no reason anymore. The ME as fragments can go unmentioned for 1, 2, 3 games, or even more before it's brought up again, but Knuckles now has that opportunity to appear whenever he wants regardless of the ME's situation. The gift is pretty much saying "Hey! Here's an idea that let's Knuckles appear whenever he wants, no questions asked. We who keep talking about the ME will shut the fuck up about it from hear on out and stop bothering you about it!" Now, I kinda feel like the gift is being thrown off a bridge, likely because we still have the ME for us despite giving you Knuckles for you. Or to use one of my favorite metaphors, we have a cake divided into two flavors (or three or four; trust me, I can keep splitting it) so everyone can enjoy it; however, some people only wanted one flavor of cake regardless of what others wanted and so they decide to throw the cake in the trash until they get a cake with only their flavor. I could go on with this, but you see where I'm coming from.

What's more? We've been caring enough to find ways just so you could have Knuckles involved. We've known you guys have always just wanted Knuckles, and we've been taking that into consideration and have been making ideas so that you Knux fans can have him appear. But from where I'm standing, you guys don't care at all about our love for the character when it comes to these other aspects connected to him, and would rather throw them away. Almost like you're saying "Either get rid of the ME or GTFO!" That's kind of insulting.

Now...to be honest, I'm not sure what I'm making out of some of the criticism. You guys are more than willing to go to the extreme and write the ME out of existence, and any alternative isn't good enough?

Really, I finally have an idea that could shut me up on the subject if ever made into fruition. I'm not wagering anything higher than it.

Knuckles never needed the Master Emerald to appear before, so why is it all of a sudden he needs it now?

Edited June 3, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Burnt Ash]

I dunno. I'm not completely against the idea, I just liked Indigo's first idea better.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I dunno. I'm not completely against the idea, I just liked Indigo's first idea better.

If anything, we can actually use Indigo's idea AND this one. There's so much here that simply throwing the ME away now would be like a massive waste, even if the plot makes no reference to it.

Edited June 3, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Chooch]

Why is it such a fucking big deal that this idea was rejected like so many other ideas? Did you all really think that there wouldn't be any sort of opposition to the idea at all whatsoever? You really thought it was that good that no one would question anything? I find that completely fucking ridiculous.

I've already explained multiple times what I thought would personally be a better and far less complicated solution (as did other people) and why I don't like this idea, but none of those who insist on putting this "break the Master Emerald for a third goddamn time" idea on a pedestal want to hear it. So at the end of the day, both sides are doing the same fucking thing.

It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, but really, all this talk about it being such an amazing "gift" to Knuckles fans who want him to return is something that I, quite frankly, find a little insulting. I can not like the idea if I damn well please.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Chooch

[Rusty Spy]

Look, the gift of the idea is that Knuckles can appear whenever the fuck he wants now without always having someone like me getting anal over why he's there for no reason anymore. The ME as fragments can go unmentioned for 1, 2, 3 games, or even more before it's brought up again, but Knuckles now has that opportunity to appear whenever he wants regardless of the ME's situation. The gift is pretty much saying "Hey! Here's an idea that let's Knuckles appear whenever he wants, no questions asked. We who keep talking about the ME will shut the fuck up about it from hear on out and stop bothering you about it!" Now, I kinda feel like the gift is being thrown off a bridge, likely because we still have the ME for us despite giving you Knuckles for you. Or to use one of my favorite metaphors, we have a cake divided into two flavors (or three or four; trust me, I can keep splitting it) so everyone can enjoy it; however, some people only wanted one flavor of cake regardless of what others wanted and so they decide to throw the cake in the trash until they get a cake with only their flavor. I could go on with this, but you see where I'm coming from.

What I want to know is this;

What is wrong with giving Knuckles the excuse of helping stop Eggman on behalf of the Master Emerald?

Why can't the games explain that Knuckles is helping save the world to keep the Master Emerald safe?

[King Frosty]

What I want to know is this;

What is wrong with giving Knuckles the excuse of helping stop Eggman on behalf of the Master Emerald?

Why can't the games explain that Knuckles is helping save the world to keep the Master Emerald safe?

....

That is actually a pretty good reason.

Eggman's really the only person besides Rouge who cares about the ME in the games anyway. :r

[Diogenes]

Why is it such a fucking big deal that this idea was rejected like so many other ideas? Did you all really think that there wouldn't be any sort of opposition to the idea at all whatsoever? You really thought it was that good that no one would question anything? I find that completely fucking ridiculous.

I'm not surprised that not everyone likes it, but I'm not really seeing any substantial criticisms.

What I want to know is this;

What is wrong with giving Knuckles the excuse of helping stop Eggman on behalf of the Master Emerald?

Why can't the games explain that Knuckles is helping save the world to keep the Master Emerald safe?

It's not bad, but on its own I don't really find it compelling, and it doesn't actually do anything to make the emerald and Knuckles being its guardian relevant again.

[Rusty Spy]

It's not bad, but on its own I don't really find it compelling, and it doesn't actually do anything to make the emerald and Knuckles being its guardian relevant again.

Thing is, I don't see how your idea would make the two anymore relevant in the long run.

Your idea would only make Knuckles' guardian status relevant if the plot involved the Master Emerald, which is no different than how it would be now, only in your idea, it'd make Knuckles look less incompetent, I'll give you that.

On the other hand, whenever Knuckles is NOT actively searching for the shards and helping out because "he happened to be in the area", the situation there is NO different if he was helping to indirectly protect the ME from the biggest threat to the world.

Overall, the only thing this idea would solve that others can't is Knuckles not looking completely incompetent whenever the Master Emerald falls into the wrong hands.

I'll be perfectly honest; I wouldn't mind your idea if it was only for 2 or 3 games as an arc for Knuckles. What I'm ultimately against is making it permanent as an excuse to justify Knuckles being around.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Rusty Spy

[Chooch]

What is more competent than Knuckles actively going after the one real threat to the Master Emerald (Dr. Eggman) and eliminating that before any harm or misuse actually comes to it?

Part of protecting someone or something is taking preventive measures so that things don't happen in the first place.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Chooch

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why is it such a fucking big deal that this idea was rejected like so many other ideas?

Because I felt this idea deals with everything we've been arguing about for the past 5 years.

Did you all really think that there wouldn't be any sort of opposition to the idea at all whatsoever?

In the Sonic Fandom? Obviously not.

You really thought it was that good that no one would question anything? I find that completely fucking ridiculous.

Well if you want, we can drag this argument for another 5 years then.

I've already explained multiple times what I thought would personally be a better and far less complicated solution (as did other people) and why I don't like this idea, but none of those who insist on putting this "break the Master Emerald for a third goddamn time" idea on a pedestal want to hear it. So at the end of the day, both sides are doing the same fucking thing.

Well I'm for one not fond of the "Retcon the Master Emerald out of existence" that a number of people have been advocating just for the sake of having Knux around.

On your part specifically, Chooch, I'm not fully fond of establishing every game where Eggman is such a big threat that everyone gets involved. Yes, it's fair. Yes, it's balanced. Yes, it has the potential keep from playing favorites to any one character or group of character without sidelining others. These are reasons why I'm partially onboard with it. But the very opposites of those points are also why I'm cautious, because while it could be fair, it could also be unfair in it's handling of the characters; while i could be balanced, it could also be imbalanced on who it chooses to use; while it could keep from playing favorites, it could also be twisted to be partisan to a specific group of characters preventing others from getting a shot except when they want to throw the others a bone every once in a while just so others can say "oh look, you see? Now it's fair!". Some of the very things I don't want are pretty much the very risks that could happen with your idea.

And to add to that, how will you plan to establish that Eggman is that big a threat every consecutive game so that everyone can get involved? Naturally, I'd assume you'd do that for special instances when you just want to up the bar every once in a while so that probably answers itself. But in addition to that, what would each character being doing or need to do so that everyone gets involved at once? What if the threat isn't so global so that only a small group of characters can get involved instead of the larger cast; who will you use in those moments? Would you switch out characters (including the ones that are your favorites) that have had enough spotlight and make use of characters who could spare some time in a major role or would you do the opposite and keep the spotlight to the more well-known? (and by all means, create a third option if you can, because I'm all about finding solutions here)

Obviously I'm rambling, but you can see why I'm partially cautious about that idea here. I think I know your answers to these questions and more likely than not I would agree to your answers, but present that to someone else and there will likely be some things that I would find upsetting just like you are in this debate.

It's not the worst idea I've ever heard, but really, all this talk about it being such an amazing "gift" to Knuckles fans who want him to return is something that I, quite frankly, find a little insulting. I can not like the idea if I damn well please.

It's not you not liking the idea that's the issue, it's that no one's bothering to compromise on the issue to settle with the conundrum in the first place or in other cases bothering to pay mind and care about the risks. I know the risks of the idea I support, and some of those risk I'd like to have as a point in a plot.

With that in mind we have people who want the ME not to be retconned and to play a role in the series, like just about everything else that would likely involve other characters such as Blaze being from another dimension or Silver coming from the future, or hell even Shadow being around in the first place. I don't hear very many people talking about retcons for these characters to make appearances more often, and I usually hear more often how they would want to get rid of such characters out of the series via a retcon, abandonment, or killed off in a plot. In the same sense that I don't want that to happen to these characters, I don't want that to happen to Knuckles for the opposite reason of having him appear more often out of sheer fan service. So I brainstorm these idea that I feel would be satisfactory without paying special lip service to any one character like that.

I'm not saying it's a gift you should take and deal with it out of pity, I'm saying it's gift that could make us both happy so we can put BOTH of our interests into this one character, put those interests in action, and finally deal with this conundrum to let go of it. I've taken consideration over people wanting Knuckles to appear, I'd love for that to happen, but I'm not seeing much of the same thing on the other end helping with the alternatives that deals with the things my side cares about.

What is more competent than Knuckles actively going after the one real threat to the Master Emerald (Dr. Eggman) and eliminating that before any harm or misuse actually comes to it?

Letting someone else go after Eggman while he serves as a second line of defense to keep the Doctor from going after it except in extremely dire moments. I'm sure I've said that many times in the past whenever this was asked.

And that's the thing. How will you make things so that Knuckles is called into action without using that excuse to sideline other characters like say Shadow or Blaze, or conversely, sideline Knuckles while another characters goes into action in his place instead?

Part of protecting someone or something is taking preventive measures so that things don't happen in the first place.

Well bodyguarding someone or something by leaving it alone while you go after someone scheming to take action isn't usually a smart idea. If you're away from what you're suppose to be bodyguarding keeping an eye on it, that preventative measure could become a potential risk.

If you're on guard duty to protect a valuable object or VIP and you're away from what you're suppose to be protecting, that's not really looked at as protecting something, is it?

Edited June 4, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

Okay, I'll use someone else. Generations has established that Blaze doesn't need to stay in her home dimension all the time, so that gives her the green light to appear when she wants, right?

But its ultimately something unimportant; maybe she decided she needed a day off, maybe Tails invited her. Who knows, but Generations has crappy writing anyway, and Blaze's presence isn't a major factor in it.

Meanwhile Knuckles has had quite a few major roles, with the Master Emerald being extremely minor in all of them. In fact, outside of Sonic 3 & K, and the Adventure series the Master Emerald is hardly important, yet Knuckles somehow is able to get major roles in most of the spin offs despite that.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But its ultimately something unimportant; maybe she decided she needed a day off, maybe Tails invited her. Who knows, but Generations has crappy writing anyway, and Blaze's presence isn't a major factor in it.

But that's the thing with her presence. She's a whole dimension away and really has no business being there for a party, crappy writing aside.

Tho to be fair, her presence is the main reason why I also let Knuckles off the hook to be around as well, in addition to the game flinging everyone in dimensional nowhere (prior to bringing Silver in the party at the end).

Meanwhile Knuckles has had quite a few major roles, with the Master Emerald being extremely minor in all of them. In fact, outside of Sonic 3 & K, and the Adventure series the Master Emerald is hardly important, yet Knuckles somehow is able to get major roles in most of the spin offs despite that.

Except number of those spin-offs they also keep in mind of the Master Emerald. Battle did, Rivals 1 & 2 did, Sonic Advance 3 did (but let's be fair with this since in the backstory Eggman cracked the world into pieces like he did in Unleashed).

About the only spin-offs to my knowledge that paid no mind to it were the Riders series and Sonic Advance 1 (which had Angel Island as a level if I wanted to make a stretch) and 2 (how far would I be stretching if I said Sky Canyon was a part of Angel Isle there too?). I don't count the Storybook games because the other characters are playing completely different roles from their characters outside the books and a more avatars for Sonic to recognize. (okay, that "avatar" part I completely made up).

I'd say using spin-offs would be a sketchy thing to do.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

Thing is, I don't see how your idea would make the two anymore relevant in the long run.

In terms of the number of times it's brought up, not so much, but it turns the Master Emerald from something holding him back ("why is Knuckles here, shouldn't he be guarding the emerald, how did he even know anything's going on?") to something that's actually getting him in position to do things. He gets involved with things because shit went down where he is, and he is where he is because he's looking for shards. He maintains his role by being out and doing shit, instead of just leaving us to assume he's guarding the emerald during the times we can't see him.

[Meow]

Since I don't feel like looking over all the arguments I was skimming through and I found someone question why Angel Island needed to float up in the sky in the first place.Which made something click in my head. I think perhaps getting rid of the master emerald would be in fact a good idea if done tastefully, while combining it with shattering the emerald into so many little pieces it'd be hard to bring it back.

I mean here we have a gigantic floating landmass, that if it were to fall onto a civilization it would be devastating. Since Dr.Eggman for example knows that using the emerald for prolonged periods of time has always ended in his defeat, why not temporarily cause the island to fall over somewhere that is civilized? The Master Emerald in of itself is powerful, yes, but Super Sonic even way back in Sonic 3&K has defeated Dr.Eggman's creations that USED the damn thing. I doubt Super Sonic would be able to stop an entire island from falling.

Which would bring me to the point that say perhaps Eggman took the emerald with the intent to make a scheme that appeared different than his true intentions. Sonic and Knuckles and co. realize only near the end that "oh shit he was faking us out to drop an island on people". They retrieve the emerald, save the day, the whole jazz - but Knuckles comes to a realization. He goes "Man, Sonic, My Bro, this thing is really dangerous. Perhaps we should wait for the island to float itself back overtop the sea...and then let it fall permanently". He then uses his gigantic huge knuckley hands to smash the thing into a zillion pieces...with no intent of actually picking the pieces back up. He is the last of his tribe, there is no real reason for him to preserve it other than that's all he has ever known.

Not only would this now force Knuckles to go see the world, it strips him of the tie that kept him alone on the island. We know he enjoys treasure hunting - so what would now be stopping him from exploring the world/seeing the world? I think it'd add a different kind of depth to him like finding a new purpose outside of the very thing he existed to do up until he ended it all for good.

It'd also open up for later on down the road the possibility of what would happen if Eggman were to actually manage to track down each piece (puttin' that IQ to good use) and use the emerald with a knowledge that nobody would realize he actually had it. There is no guardian for it anymore, and while I'm sure Knuckles would sense it when its back together, it'd still work as a good 'surprise' plan.

I mean by no means is any of this super well thought out obviously but merely ideas. I know none of this will ever happen either, but I think it would allow getting the best of both worlds - shattering the emerald and scattering it across the world in a zillion tiny pieces to open up for different plotlines + getting rid of the master emerald completely because Knuckles doesn't want to have it constantly being sought out/misused for evil and finally moving on.

So uh, just my two cents.

[Rusty Spy]

On your part specifically, Chooch, I'm not fully fond of establishing every game where Eggman is such a big threat that everyone gets involved. Yes, it's fair. Yes, it's balanced. Yes, it has the potential keep from playing favorites to any one character or group of character without sidelining others. These are reasons why I'm partially onboard with it. But the very opposites of those points are also why I'm cautious, because while it could be fair, it could also be unfair in it's handling of the characters; while i could be balanced, it could also be imbalanced on who it chooses to use;

This isn't about other characters, this is about giving Knuckles justification to be away from the ME. Character usage is completely beside the point.

Letting someone else go after Eggman while he serves as a second line of defense to keep the Doctor from going after it except in extremely dire moments. I'm sure I've said that many times in the past whenever this was asked.

There is only one way these situations go;

-Bad guy do bad thing

-Heroes go after bad guy

-Heroes defeat bad guy

It doesn't get anymore complicated than that unless the plot demands it.

Well bodyguarding someone or something by leaving it alone while you go after someone scheming to take action isn't usually a smart idea. If you're away from what you're suppose to be bodyguarding keeping an eye on it, that preventative measure could become a potential risk.

If you're on guard duty to protect a valuable object or VIP and you're away from what you're suppose to be protecting, that's not really looked at as protecting something, is it?

Macguffin ----> Bodyguard ----> Threat

If there is only one threat to your macguffin, and you know where the threat is, then you have good reason to temporarily leave your macguffin in it's already safe location to deal with the threat.

Sure it may be safer to always be with your macguffin, but this is about letting Knuckles be in the games, so is it that big of a consequence to assume that the ME will be safe while Knuckles is helping deal with Eggma n?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This isn't about other characters, this is about giving Knuckles justification to be away from the ME. Character usage is completely beside the point.

No that was very much part of what Chooch's idea was in the previous pages.

There is only one way these situations go;

-Bad guy do bad thing

-Heroes go after bad guy

-Heroes defeat bad guy

It doesn't get anymore complicated than that unless the plot demands it.

I'm preferring there be something with more meat than that, as I'm already implying here.

Macguffin ----> Bodyguard ----> Threat

If there is only one threat to your macguffin, and you know where the threat is, then you have good reason to temporarily leave your macguffin in it's already safe location to deal with the threat.

And if there is no idea where the threat is, and you leave the macguffin, how does that work out?

Because really, they don't always know where the threat is since they're always looking for it and stopping it, or sometimes the threat is already being handled by another group of characters. Tell me did they know exactly where Eggman's secret weapon was in Heroes prior to reaching the fleet (or even what the secret weapon was)? Or how about where the Flames of Disaster was that Eggman was trying to unleash in Sonic 06?

Sure it may be safer to always be with your macguffin, but this is about letting Knuckles be in the games, so is it that big of a consequence to assume that the ME will be safe while Knuckles is helping deal with Eggma n?

Yes, it is that big a consequence.

In the same sense that a bodyguard is suppose to be around the VIP to keep them safe from someone trying to hurt them whether they know it or not, or the same reason why people still use guards despite having layers of security around objects they don't want stolen, Knuckles (the bodyguard in this case) would be putting the ME (the VIP) at risk by leaving it.

[Diogenes]

Sure it may be safer to always be with your macguffin, but this is about letting Knuckles be in the games, so is it that big of a consequence to assume that the ME will be safe while Knuckles is helping deal with Eggma n?

At this point I feel the problem is less that it isn't a logical decision and more that it's boring. I mean, fine, the emerald's probably not going to get stolen when he's out fighting Eggman. But what's the point of a character having a duty if it doesn't actually affect them in any way? What does it matter that Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald if literally any time anything is happening he can freely abandon it? If a character has a trait, it should be used, not written around because it's inconvenient.

[Sean]

I like Punk's idea, it's actually kind of badass in a way. I often like it when a character has to make some great sacrifice despite tradition and defy the status quo - I think something like that would add new development to Knuckles, considering he's stated to be envious of Sonic's nature and this would kinda also be one step closer to paving his own path in life. If Tails could shake off his dependence on Sonic starting with SA1, I don't see what should stop Sega from making yet another character-changing decision like this. Especially if it's for that character's own good.

[Jeffhog]

...dude.

Punk.

That's one of the greatest ideas for a Sonic game I've ever heard of. That's fucking brilliant.

[Rusty Spy]

At this point I feel the problem is less that it isn't a logical decision and more that it's boring. I mean, fine, the emerald's probably not going to get stolen when he's out fighting Eggman. But what's the point of a character having a duty if it doesn't actually affect them in any way? What does it matter that Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald if literally any time anything is happening he can freely abandon it? If a character has a trait, it should be used, not written around because it's inconvenient

well, I'd rather have Knuckles be in the games without the Master Emerald than not at all.

As I said before, I'd be all for your idea if it were only temporary.

I like Punk's idea, it's actually kind of badass in a way

...dude.

Punk.

That's one of the greatest ideas for a Sonic game I've ever heard of. That's fucking brilliant.

Oh god not again!

Actually, It'd be cool if this was the scenario that causes the global ME shattering and kicks off a story arc that has Knuckles and co searching the world for the pieces before Eggman gets a hold of them.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't exactly find it too brilliant because it's practically the same Diogenes' idea.

The major difference being a bit of the reverse in that instead of Knuckles tracking down the pieces, Eggman's secretly doing so instead while Knuckles is off with others in the world. But it could still make for a good surprise when and if Eggman manages to piece it back together.

As I said before, I'd be all for your idea if it were only temporary.

Wait a minute...really? And you've been arguing this long?

Dude, I thought we said it was temporary? (okay well, we didn't use those exact words so thats partly our fault, but still) I'm not fond of it being permanent either, but I do like how it's indefinite as Diogenes said initially. And that was one of the first questions I asked him when he brought up the idea: It's not going to be like that forever, but we don't know when the book will close on it.

Edited June 4, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Meow]

I don't exactly find it brilliant because it's practically the same Diogenes' idea.

That was the point, I said it was the best of both worlds at the end of my post.

Not trying to take credit for any sort of 'brilliance' anyway, nor looking for it . I just felt that having Knuckles actively look for them again presented the problem that it would get stale very quickly I think. Plus the mention of it already being done on a lesser scale here and there already made me think it should be a permanent thing that Knuckles will no longer take responsibility for it.

I can't foresee Eggman letting it go, because he is a smart guy who can build gigantic super weapons in what seems like a day. Of course it wouldn't automatically be assumed by anyone that Eggman would go after it again considering the Chaos Emeralds are easier to track down and have thus far proven to be a lot more reliable in his schemes than the M.E was.

But the main point is that it removes the Master Emerald from being Knuckles' main purpose in the grand scheme of things. Casting it off to move on, while still giving it relevance in the fact that it used to be a big part of who he was. Which to me would help enable him to start being fleshed out a lot better as a character while being respectful to the M.E and his connections to it at the same time. Simply casting it off and forgetting about it (as people were implying should happen) is just the easy way out. Gotta make it count.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, that's basically what we've been saying for the most part.

I'm for it either way, it's similar to Diogenes idea but it just switches the person finding them to the villain instead of one of the heroes after it gets shattered and the addition of Knuckles moving on from it prior to the shock when it gets reassembled in the villains hands.