modern demo?

[Kuzu]

And so I shall add another point to the "Dio is always right" counter

More like he makes good and valid points based on facts.

But yeah, first level or not, the design should be complex enough for both expert and novice players to get into without going too far in either direction while having a steady difficulty curve as the game progresses. GHZ is far too simple, even for a first level, this doesn't mean its a terrible level as its still fun to play, but for a platforming level I expect a bit more than just a straight line telling me to go forward.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Shadic93

[The Man On The Inside]

Finally got to play modern GHZ....level design is an improvement on Unleashed, less death pits etc but I have to agree with the people who called it Straight Line Zone.

However, one thing i will say though, and this is such a fundamental deal-maker for me, is that throughout my time with the demo, not once did I feel as though the boost was cheap or too easy to obtain. I was running out of boost all the time, and I realised that the boost meter was - at last - something I really had to take care of; I really had to manage the meter through proper use of the spin-drift.

So basically, that's one of the biggest problems I had with Unleashed solved. It even solves it in the way I personally thought would work (tricks and enemies), which is even better. The other problem was level design, but people keep saying how great the other modern levels are and how they have great level design (haven't watched them, avoiding spoilers), so I'm very excited for the whole thing.

[Voyant]

You know I feel pretty stupid...I do all this arguing for the first level of a game that has already shown other levels that are far superior to it every way and makes most past complaints about the Modern formula moot. So really what the hell am I trying to defend the FIRST level of a game...form what I seen fuck Green Hill honestly. (Still a fun level to romp through though.)

I hope others catch this realization as well and move on.

Edited October 20, 2011 by V0YANT

[Djawed]

Having one introductionary tutorial first stage feels kind of like a waste imo. Unlike the classics with their more complex second (and in sonic 1's case, act 2 and 3's) acts green hill zone's simplicity makes the game feel as if it only has 8 great stages. Green hill zone could have been better and honestly I think Dio described it best. It doesn't have to be difficult, just less mindless and more complex. It's things like this where sonicteam have to be more aware about. Making the introductionary stage simple to such a great degree doesn't sell a product at all as a demo. It's got to make the player beg for more from the very first stage.(even as a full game)

Edited October 20, 2011 by Jaouad

[Nintendoga]

I'm just gonna squeeze in through the debating real quick and just leave my thoughts.

Classic is much better then the first demo. His jumping feels less stiff and when I roll, it doesn't feel like I'm trying to wrestle with sonic to say i ball form. I also noticed how the spindash is much slower then the other demo. I like that, it doesn't make it feel so OP (overpowered) anymore. Other then that, the graphics look more colorful and I like how you can now back back up the automated bridge to re-explore the level some more.

Modern is very nice too. At first he felt so weird to control, but after messing up down and all around with him, he controls much better then unleashed and colors imo. The boost has been nerfed (not as much as colors though) and I don't like how the air boost gives out after one second. That led to me getting hit quite a fer times. The spindash drift is great (love that animation) and the combos are tough to pull off,(you can hold the stick in one direction, but you won't get any boost points). All in all pretty good.

Speedrunning his level is a bitch though. Keep on messing up either at the beginning 2D section, or the 2D section towards the end.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Nintendoga

[Phos]

There missions for both Classic and Modern and are just a little more than going through the level again...this isn't Sonic Adventure 2...and being that you kinda lost touch with the game since City Escape footage perhaps you should do some research before spouting bullshit.

So are you actually going to get some evidence or examples and the like or just continue muck flinging?

Also, fuuuuuuu why we ps3fags have to wait another week.

Can't you just make a European account?

[Conando]

Phos is right, you can just make a EU PSN account. You don't even need to put real information in.

[Patticus]

I found it pretty hilarious how the "Press B to slide under obstacle" segments in Modern's act came at me so quickly that I didn't actually press B until after Sonic had somehow automatically ran through them. It's just too fast for that kind of gameplay to work properly.

[Marcello]

Well there are 5 Mission acts for each Sonic in the level so perhaps there will be more substance and immersion in those. There is also hard mode to consider, but I don't think it will add much to the level geometry just make shit a lot more reaction based.

Hard mode is bosses-only.

[Remy]

Collectibles are nice...until you've found them. Good level design can be replayed many times.

This post really irked me, collectables and good stage design are not mutually exclusive.

Having played the demo... I really doubt the rest of the game is going to be as easy as this first stage guys. The reason it's easy is the first stage- and virtually every sonic game ever has an easy as balls first stage. I imagine the later stages will be plenty challenging.

I found it pretty hilarious how the "Press B to slide under obstacle" segments in Modern's act came at me so quickly that I didn't actually press B until after Sonic had somehow automatically ran through them. It's just too fast for that kind of gameplay to work properly.

I know right! I had the same problem. So not used to the pace after playing so much Dark Souls. I'm finding it hard to cope with the boost actually, feels like whenever I use it I miss half the stage. Yikes.

Game is looking good, otherwise.

Also guys, something to think about:

[JezMM]

Now that Diogenes has pinpointed exactly what he wanted, I can agree, there's no reason why they couldn't have put more challenging routes in the stage. I'M not bothered by their absence, but yeah I can still understand.

Still, I think Dio (and his agreeers) should hate this particular stage and not base their opinion of the game as a whole on it. I haven't been watching full unedited gameplay at all so as to not spoil the level design but I am pretty trusting that they're as open and complex as people say.

[The Dead Skin]

Now that Diogenes has pinpointed exactly what he wanted, I can agree, there's no reason why they couldn't have put more challenging routes in the stage. I'M not bothered by their absence, but yeah I can still understand.

Still, I think Dio (and his agreeers) should hate this particular stage and not base their opinion of the game as a whole on it. I haven't been watching full unedited gameplay at all so as to not spoil the level design but I am pretty trusting that they're as open and complex as people say.

It gets better from Sky Sanctuary onwards.

And I do mean better.

[Remy]

Still, I think Dio (and his agreeers) should hate this particular stage and not base their opinion of the game as a whole on it. I haven't been watching full unedited gameplay at all so as to not spoil the level design but I am pretty trusting that they're as open and complex as people say.

It is incredibly foolish to judge a game entirely from it's first stage... IMO

[Indigo Rush]

So are you actually going to get some evidence or examples and the like or just continue muck flinging?

It's been quoted in a few interviews with Aaron Webber, and mentioned in a few magazine and web articles, I'm sure. In addition to that, there are demo assets that explain what kind of missions there are in addition to the regular levels. The fact of the matter is that there is indeed a lot to do in this game.

If you are willing to take the time, here's one of the more prominent interviews with Aaron Webber regarding the more finished version of the game, and at around 5 minutes into the video he starts to talk about what kind of missions you can expect. (Also, enjoy some footage of Seaside Hill, with some of the best level design for Sonic games since the Dreamcast days, even moreso if you ask me!)

Also, I'm afraid I have to side with Voyant in regards to you not paying attention to the game since City Escape. You kind of jumped the fence a bit early and made the wrong assumption about missions before even looking into what the game had to offer. Taking that into consideration though, I guess it's reasonable to expect what you did after Sonic Unleashed, but those extra "missions" could hardly even be considered as such any more than ring/time/enemy attacks. I'm sure Generations will have those, but they aren't the same as one of the missions involving Tails carrying Sonic to higher ground in Chemical Plant or racing Knuckles in a version of Green Hill with massive enemies.

So now you can fight a giant enemy crab, and attack it's weakpoint for massive damage. Sonic Team did this for you.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Voyant]

Now that Diogenes has pinpointed exactly what he wanted, I can agree, there's no reason why they couldn't have put more challenging routes in the stage. I'M not bothered by their absence, but yeah I can still understand.

Edited October 20, 2011 by V0YANT

[Neon]

Just Push Start Demo Impressions:

http://www.justpushstart.com/2011/10/20/i-forgive-you-sonic-team/

I love how he praises the demo for no hubs and RPG elements. He might be dissapointed later on.

[Voyant]

Just Push Start Demo Impressions:

http://www.justpushs...you-sonic-team/

I love how he praises the demo for no hubs and RPG elements. He might be dissapointed later on.

Edited October 20, 2011 by V0YANT

[HUNTER297]

My impressions. Classic improved since June demo and jumping is fixed. Nothing more I can say for now.

Modern Sonic is great! If anyone noticed they balanced boost. Its really hard to boost to win now. Major reason is that when you boost your jumping reaction is a bit slower. Tricks are great! There is no better feeling than making 7 Combo trick and finisher in front of THAT Robo-Fish!

Level design:It improved a lot. Of course later stages such as Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill are even more open but compare Green Hill to Windmill Isle Act 2. Second one was just corridor while here we have places where we need to slow down. Especially when you miss higher path after "fish jump".

In other words: CANT FREAING WAIT!!!

[Chaos Warp]

My impressions. Classic improved since June demo and jumping is fixed. Nothing more I can say for now.

Modern Sonic is great! If anyone noticed they balanced boost. Its really hard to boost to win now. Major reason is that when you boost your jumping reaction is a bit slower. Tricks are great! There is no better feeling than making 7 Combo trick and finisher in front of THAT Robo-Fish!

Level design:It improved a lot. Of course later stages such as Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill are even more open but compare Green Hill to Windmill Isle Act 2. Second one was just corridor while here we have places where we need to slow down. Especially when you miss higher path after "fish jump".

In other words: CANT FREAING WAIT!!!

Reached my quota of positive votes, but I want to say I pretty much agree with you on everything.

[KrazyBean]

Do you guys know that the spindash is slightly nerfed in this demo?

[Legendary Emerald]

Do you guys know that the spindash is slightly nerfed in this demo?

I really, truly do not notice this at all, unless you mean it now taking a millisecond longer or so to make you go anywhere.

[Indigo Rush]

The only thing that's nerfed is that you no longer slide forward a bit when you initiate a spin-dash while running, you stop dead-on, now.

Also wanted to address something. The spin-dash in Sonic Generations is not the "spam-dash." You need to be uncurled to use it when moving. In Sonic Adventure, you could spam the spin-dash even when you were still in a ball.

The two are not the same, please, get it right.

[Marcello]

So, I downloaded the demo from PSN, because of MS's stupid Gold crap. I'm very happy I'm getting it on the 360. Stupid PS3 controller >_>

I noticed some problems going through loops when I don't Spindash...

[JezMM]

Level design:It improved a lot. Of course later stages such as Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill are even more open but compare Green Hill to Windmill Isle Act 2. Second one was just corridor while here we have places where we need to slow down.

I dunno, Windmill Isle was more linear but it did feel like it had more going on. I mean the breakable bridge for example - I'm sure the final version will have a red ring down there, but aside from that it's a choice between one curvy pathway and a slightly shorter curvy pathway.

[SilentDoom]

The only thing that's nerfed is that you no longer slide forward a bit when you initiate a spin-dash while running, you stop dead-on, now.

Also wanted to address something. The spin-dash in Sonic Generations is not the "spam-dash." You need to be uncurled to use it when moving. In Sonic Adventure, you could spam the spin-dash even when you were still in a ball.

The two are not the same, please, get it right.

That actually brings me onto something that kind of bugs me. Not about Generations directly, but about stuff in Adventure and Adventure to comparative to Generations.

As you said, SA1's spin dash is broken as all hell. Mash the button and you become a literally unstoppable ball of death. Not to mention thanks to the Adventure games' stupidly floaty jump (people complain about Colours' jump being floaty, the Adventure titles has WAAAAAY floatier jumps), you can do those massive spin dash leaps that allow you to effortlessly sequence break and skip half the levels. And yet people absolutely loved this and still do. Yes it offers a thrilling sense of control, but it's a BROKEN sense of control.

Yes the spin dash in Generations is powerful. Stronger than it is in the classics. But at least the level design has been designed well enough to cater to this increased power on the spin dash. Furthermore, I have yet to see any instances where you can use this spin dash to actually sequence break in Generations.