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  • Sonic Dream Team - The What, How, and Why of Sonic on Apple Arcade

    The most direct path from Point A to Point B might be waiting until you know it's worth the trip.

    While there’s a lot to pick apart with the Sonic Dream Team announcement, nothing has completely engulfed the discourse quite as much as disbelief, frustration, and misunderstanding with its platform: Apple Arcade. We may not know what Dream Team itself is outside of some form of 3D platformer with multiple characters and Lost World-esque aesthetics, and we may not know if it’s even worth playing yet, but that hasn’t stopped people from obsessing over the Apple part of its release.

    So it’s worth actually looking at Apple Arcade as a platform and taking the time to understand what it actually is, what hardware is really required, and why SEGA would opt to release the game on that specific platform.

    What is Apple Arcade?

    Let’s get this out of the way first: Apple Arcade is not the same thing as the iPhone app store. Apple Arcade is a subscription service for Apple devices acting as an alternative to the free-to-play model that has consumed mobile gaming.

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    The library is a mix of fully-featured games that you may have seen on other platforms (Stardew Valley, Slay the Spire), versions of existing games without micro-transactions or ads (Jetpack Joyride, Cut the Rope), as well as a number of original games or original versions of existing games (Air Twister, Pocket Card Jockey: Ride On!).

    It’s also home to Sonic Dash+, a version of Sonic Dash without ads or micro-transactions, and Sonic Racing, an alternate take on Team Sonic Racing that… feels like it was designed with micro-transactions in mind, but then had them taken out?

    What do I need to play Apple Arcade games?

    Apple Arcade is available on Apple laptops and PCs, iPhones, iPads, and Apple TV set top boxes running OS 13 or later. For phones this goes roughly as far back as the iPhone 6s, for tablets it’s the iPad Mini 4, and for Apple TV it would be 4th generation or any 4K version.

    You will likely want a controller, and while a number of controllers are compatible, a PS4/PS5/Xbox One/Xbox Series controller should work fine. You can attach them to an iPhone with a controller mount, but be sure to get one compatible with the controller you want to use. Controllers that attach to the phone are also available, but significantly more expensive.

    What’s the cheapest way for me to get access?

    The best way to save money will always be to wait for reviews before buying anything. We’ve never had a full 3D platformer like this from SEGA HARDlight before, and it remains a big question mark whether or not the game will be worth dropping $100 or more on hardware and subscriptions to play.

    That said, if I’m being realistic, there are fans who will not wait, so for those people… let’s at least try to save you a few bucks.

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    While you can probably find a variety of used devices on eBay, the current (2022) Apple TV 4K (64GB) is currently available for $130 at most U.S. retailers with slight discounts at Costco and Sam’s Club. However, you can economize even further with a refurbished model direct from Apple for as low as $110.

    Because Dream Team is a 3D game, the farther back in time you go, the higher the risk you’ll have with performance limitations, so be wary of aiming for the lowest point of entry possible. If you’re going the Apple TV route, any 4K model should be safe.

    Apple Arcade is a subscription service at $7 a month. However, you can get a 1-month free trial for existing hardware or a 3-month trial on new hardware. We don’t know if Dream Team will be released in full or if it will have ongoing content, so there’s no good way to tell if it can be “finished” in a month or not.

    Will this come to other platforms later?

    Maybe, but right now we don’t have any evidence to suggest it will.

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    Many games that started out as Apple Arcade exclusives have made it to other platforms, like Assemble with Care, Grindstone, and Exit the Gungeon. However, we don’t have an example of SEGA doing that. In fact, ChuChu Rocket Universe (also developed by HARDlight) was delisted from Apple Arcade last year and was never made available on any other platform.

    Why would SEGA make the game exclusive to Apple Arcade, and not platforms like Android?

    There are two things that define the modern mobile game landscape: 1. It’s an extremely high risk environment that really only has room for free-to-play software anymore, and 2. Apple app store users statistically spend much more than Google Play users.

    Apple Arcade seems to exist in response to this. Consumers (especially parents) who want games without the constant hustle of up-sells, energy timers, and surprise micro-transaction bills can pay a single monthly fee for all games in the library. Developers who Apple chooses to work with get a much more predictable paycheck and don’t have to design their games around elaborate Skinner Boxes to remain profitable.

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    SEGA has not always had a good grip on what will make money in mobile gaming. Yes, they’ve got Sonic Dash and Sonic Forces: Speed Battle which have been around forever in mobile game years. However they ultimately could not make the economics work for Sonic Runners after only a year of service, and took an absolute bath on an attempted Sakura Wars mobile revival. Even 404 GAME RE:SET, a game that launched this year, is set to shut down in January.

    On the other hand, SEGA seems to have a solid relationship with Apple, and especially Apple Arcade, considering that Dream Team will be their seventh title on the platform and that Apple themselves seem to have a hand in its production. It allows SEGA to have known income rather than risk the fickleness of the market, and personally I hope it means that the game will have a more traditional structure instead of other mobile Sonic games’ ad-filled, shop-pushing, card collecting, timer waiting format that gets under my skin every time I load up Speed Battle.

    I don’t want to get Apple hardware or Apple Arcade.

    One of the loudest, angriest sentiments I’ve heard coming from this game’s announcement is “Does SEGA expect me to buy an iPhone just to play this game?” I think that is a misinterpretation of what the product actually is.

    Come December, you will not be able to buy Sonic Dream Team. It’s not an independent piece of software that SEGA can sell you, because they didn’t make it for you. They made it for Apple. Apple then wants to bundle it with a hundred other games, inside of a subscription, because their business model is built around maintaining an ecosystem for their hardware customers. If you are not and will not be an Apple hardware customer, then Apple really doesn’t care if you’re a Sonic fan or not. But if you do own or could be convinced to own Apple hardware, then Apple hopes that games like Sonic Dream Team will convince you to join or maintain an Arcade subscription.

    It’s no different than Sonic Prime on Netflix. Netflix doesn’t buy licensing for Sonic because they care deeply about the Sonic fanbase. They do it because it might convince some of that fanbase to have and actively use a Netflix subscription. Because that is their entire business.

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    From SEGA Sammy Holding's 2023 annual investor relations report

    As for SEGA’s place in this, SEGA does care if you’re a Sonic fan, but they don’t care where you are a Sonic fan. If you discover an enjoyment of Sonic through Apple Arcade or through console games or comics or Paramount films or Roblox, they benefit from all of that. Their goal is to have Sonic reach as many people as possible, especially children. It’s the same philosophy that brings us platform exclusive Sonic games on the DS, PSP, Wii, Kinect, Neo Geo Pocket Color, and even the Game.com. SEGA is not worried that everyone will have access to every Sonic game or even this specific Sonic game. They care that everyone has access to a Sonic game.

    The people who suffer in this arrangement, and the ones who most vocally oppose Dream Team’s platform, are the Sonic completionists, the sub-section of fans who treat experiencing every part of the series, not as a fun goal, but as an obligation to FOMO. Knowing that there might be an entry in the series that you can’t play sucks. It does, I am keenly aware. But when the franchise is simply this sprawling, the task of keeping up with everything is going to be very resource intensive, leaving most of us to pick and choose what we want out of it and how much we’re willing to pay. Everything has rarely been an option throughout Sonic’s history, nor is it a guaranteed option today.

    The angle I’m more sympathetic to is game preservation. As mentioned earlier, ChuChu Rocket Universe launched with Apple Arcade and was delisted last year with no clear reason why and no indication that it will appear anywhere else. Explicitly, this is bad historical preservation, and we need to push for both the legal and technical capacity to preserve games. But this is a whole-industry issue far beyond the scope of one Sonic spin-off title.

    So then what do I do?

    Well, first and foremost, I can’t recommend buying any sort of subscription or hardware until the game actually has some reviews out. Ideally, don’t buy into the hardware and/or subscription unless you know there are other things in it that you want to play. If you're buying in regardless, maybe check out Air Twister, Fantasian, Manifold Garden, What the Golf, or Reigns: Beyond. There’s some decent games on Arcade, so why not branch out if you’ve got the subscription anyway?

    If you don’t want to engage with Apple at all, then don’t. This year alone we’ve got Final Horizons, Sonic Superstars, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog, and a bunch of cool game experiences from SAGE and Sonic Hacking Contest. And there will assuredly be more Sonic throughout the foreseeable future if you’re willing to wait for it. Perhaps after this game releases, if it still looks like something you would want to play, let SEGA know that you would want to see the game released on consoles or PC.

    Just… you know. Don’t make the internet a less hospitable place because you might not get to play one specific game.


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    Yea, I don't really need to play this specific game. Though it would be cool to have it, I'll wait for either someone to replicate it through a fangame or console/PC release

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    Shaddy Zaphod

    Posted (edited)

    Couple things about this:

    It looks like depending on what PC hardware you have, the game can theoretically be run under a virtual machine using PCIE passthrough to force hardware acceleration, or by installing Mac OS on existing hardware (sometimes known as "hackintosh"), but this still requires you to have some specific PC parts. I don't know if this is worth mentioning in the "affordable ways to play" section, but it's all legal. If someone has any knowledge or experience with this, Sonic Racing is a great litmus test for the viability of this.

    I will say, the thing that's bothered me more than mere frustration over the game (but less than people supporting exclusivity) is the mantra of "piracy will save us". A file does nothing if it can't be run. Just because theft is a morally-correct and convenient way to experience the Sonic series doesn't mean it's the answer to everything.

    I found out earlier tonight that it seems like Apple Arcade games can be ripped, and are not subject to online-only DRM, meaning this game can be run offline, and therefore will be preserved. This has already been done for the aforementioned Sonic Racing.

    I think for the rest of us, the best-case scenario (other than a real port) is probably going to be the inevitable fan remake of the game with ripped and/or recreated assets in another engine. We've had all these empty fan frameworks for years now, and hey! We finally have stages to put in them!

     

    TL;DR Fuck SEGA and Apple, but the community is gonna save this game the same way they saved Runners (and frankly this will get more attention).

    If you want to play the game, it's probably just a longer wait...and means other than official ones. But if you're a Sonic completionist, you should already be used to that.

    Edited by Shaddy Zaphod
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    38 minutes ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

    It looks like depending on what PC hardware you have, the game can theoretically be run under a virtual machine using PCIE passthrough to force hardware acceleration, or by installing Mac OS on existing hardware (sometimes known as "hackintosh"), but this still requires you to have some specific PC parts.

    This is definitely one option, but I figured that if someone was already in position to throw together a Hackintosh, they're well outside of needing someone to suggest "Hey, Apple TVs are generally affordable." I didn't want to muddy the water too much.

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    I really enjoyed reading this write up - well written, fair, and a really considered view taken on all aspects of the release of the game and the wider context. Thank you!

     

    Personally, its just the latest game I will miss out on like Lost World on Wii, Rise of Lyric and until recently colours on wii. I've STILL yet to play chatoix having never owned a 32x either.  Am I bothered, a tiny bit, but not really. Time has shown that the better and most popular games get ported and re-released over time, so lets just wait and see.

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    Just now, GX -The Spindash- said:

    This is definitely one option, but I figured that if someone was already in position to throw together a Hackintosh, they're well outside of needing someone to suggest "Hey, Apple TVs are generally affordable." I didn't want to muddy the water too much.

    A fair point, though I don't know enough about the hardware to be certain whether I'll actually need to buy new parts if I decide to try it. I'm mostly just saying that, as someone who is almost certainly not purchasing an Apple product to play this, if someone told me that A) Apple Arcade games can be preserved and run offline and B) I could theoretically install Mac OS on my own PC to do it, I wouldn't have reacted as angrily as I did (though I am definitely still angry).

    Not grasping that fangame devs are going to be stripping this thing down to its bones to make a de-facto PC port is my bad, though. I should have figured that.

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    Ming Ming Hatsune

    Posted (edited)

    This is no different than Nintendo years back when they made a 3 game exclusivity deal (well 2, Mario & Sonic really doesn't count) with Sega.

    You think Nintendo cared about the Sonic fanbase when they made that exclusivity deal? 

    Nintendo certainly didn't care about me, nor any other Sonic fan who didn't own a Wii U.

    Apple probably saw the success of Sonic Racing and called on Sega to make a game for their platform. For Apple Arcade users. For those who already have an Apple device, who they can sway to subscribing. That's it really. If you don't have an Apple device and you don't plan to, then move on really from this game. 

    Dream Team may not exist if Apple didn't call on Sega.

    Did you also say F*** MICROSOFT when Free Riders was exclusive to 360 as well? Hope you did.

    Edited by Ming Ming Hatsune
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    That's a lot of weird emotional conjecture shouted seemingly at nobody in particular. I for one did not get angry about Microsoft or Nintendo's exclusivity deals, because both of those were over a decade ago and I didn't know everything about why exclusivity is a bad practice the way I do now. But yes, fuck both of those. Those resulted in some of the worst sales and reviews the series ever saw. Is that supposed to be an adequate defense of SEGA and Apple right now?

    Because even if it were (it's not, to be clear) it also misses that you actually can play all of those games on PC right now. Free Riders is the best it's ever been because it wasn't exclusive to an architecture that we have little hope of properly emulating on windows. Will people be able to make something like this for Dream Team? I mean, hopefully nobody will need to, but probably not either way.

    Saying "it's not for you, just move on" is not a defense either. Games are art, and art should not be artificially restricted to only specific classes of people. While the article is not wrong that this is an industry-wide (society-wide, really) issue, that's not really much defense of the additional layer of gatekeeping that you get with Apple.

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    thank you OP for this thread and your summary of important things.

    personally, I'm still a little pissed, not gonna lie here. But yeah, you are right with the things you said.

    I get why people compare this to other exclusive titles (yes, the nintendo deal also sucked hard.) but I think this time it is different because YOU CAN'T EVEN OWN THE GAME.

    As you said, this is tied behind a freakin' subscription, something I will never be a fan of. I'm not going to start a big rant about apple here right now, since that would need it's own topic, which I think is not the right thing to discuss in a Sonic Forum imho.

    I'll just say that: I'm a repair technician for all sorts of devices for my profession, Apple is extremely anti-repair and anti-consumer (you can't even change a display because it is "married" to the mainboard, for example, so you HAVE TO buy a new mainboard even if only your display is broken.), also selling a freakin montior stand for 1000$..you know where this goes. I could go on and on. I simply can't stand companies like that.

    And this is WHY I am so mad about this. I understand the reasoning why SEGA does that, heck, I even understand why Apple wants this. But as a Fan I feel robbed because Ian Flynn confirmed this game to be canon! If you could own the game on your device..yeah, sure, that's okay. As was said here, we had exclusive stuff in the past, that's nothing new. But locking it behind a subscription is just greedy as fck and absolutely what Apple would do..

    For now, I will simply ignore that this game exists at all. That's what I did with other exclusive titles I was not able to play back then.

     

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    3 hours ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    Did you also say F*** MICROSOFT when Free Riders was exclusive to 360 as well? Hope you did.

    XD Can I say it for different kinect-related reasons?

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    Ming Ming Hatsune

    Posted (edited)

    1 hour ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

    Those resulted in some of the worst sales and reviews the series ever saw. Is that supposed to be an adequate defense of SEGA and Apple right now?

    Saying "it's not for you, just move on" is not a defense either. Games are art, and art should not be artificially restricted to only specific classes of people. While the article is not wrong that this is an industry-wide (society-wide, really) issue, that's not really much defense of the additional layer of gatekeeping that you get with Apple.

    Not really. But what I'm saying is you cannot blame Apple on this. Apple said to Sega, "Hey, we want you to create a solid game only for our platform - utilising our Apple chips to its best".

    Apple doesn't want this on other platforms because it defeats the purpose of:

    1) Getting more users to subscribe to Apple Arcade

    2) Using the power of the Apple M/A chips to its fullest. Because if it ends up multiplatform, Hardlight would need more developers to handle the Android side of things - otherwise Hardlight will be crushed with optimisation for these platforms. Apple certainly ain't paying Hardlight more money to get it on Android lol.

    It was up to Sega to discard the deal. They didn't. Games are art I agree but unfortunately it's also business. You can't be mad at Apple at this, because from their perspective - their goal is to get more users on their platform. It's not like this game was once planned multiplatform, then Apple stole the rights. 

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    Because even if it were (it's not, to be clear) it also misses that you actually can play all of those games on PC right now. Free Riders is the best it's ever been because it wasn't exclusive to an architecture that we have little hope of properly emulating on windows. Will people be able to make something like this for Dream Team? I mean, hopefully nobody will need to, but probably not either way.

    Um, you cannot play Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric and Free Riders officially on PC. Emulated yes, but this adds more complications and you have to hope your PC plays the game smoothly.

    EDIT: Also this game is also playable on Mac, so maybe there is a hackable way to get the game off AA on the Mac, and make it playable without having a sub.

    1 hour ago, FReaK said:

    I get why people compare this to other exclusive titles (yes, the nintendo deal also sucked hard.) but I think this time it is different because YOU CAN'T EVEN OWN THE GAME.

    As you said, this is tied behind a freakin' subscription, something I will never be a fan of. I'm not going to start a big rant about apple here right now, since that would need it's own topic, which I think is not the right thing to discuss in a Sonic Forum imho.

    Fairs. You cannot own the game, and that's really the only thing I'm going to get on Apple. Terrible decision. I don't mind this game being exclusive on Apple devices forever, just make it available to purchase. Or give a one year exclusivity on AA, then release on App Store.

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    I'll just say that: I'm a repair technician for all sorts of devices for my profession, Apple is extremely anti-repair and anti-consumer (you can't even change a display because it is "married" to the mainboard, for example, so you HAVE TO buy a new mainboard even if only your display is broken.), also selling a freakin montior stand for 1000$..you know where this goes. I could go on and on. I simply can't stand companies like that.

     Just to let you know (it's also on the OP article), you can also play this on Apple TV - which is probably the best way to play it (with a controller).

    Edited by Ming Ming Hatsune
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    1 hour ago, FReaK said:

    I feel robbed because Ian Flynn confirmed this game to be canon!

    He will tell you every game is canon. This does not mean this game will have narrative that actually matters to later story. Team Sonic Racing is technically canon, and doesn't actually matter to anything else in the broader Sonic narrative outside of one minor very, VERY missable reference in Frontiers.

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    Shaddy Zaphod

    Posted (edited)

    26 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    Not really. But what I'm saying is you cannot blame Apple on this.

    Okay well first off, yes I can. Just as easily as SEGA could have not agreed to their bullshit business practices, they could have not had them in the first place. If you're going to argue that the nature of the market compels Apple to be the predatory company that they are, that can also defend SEGA's actions, as well as every other company to ever exist.

    But that's missing the point. There's no reason to single out SEGA or Apple here. If you haven't already hated both of them for years by now, you're probably not paying attention. Shitting on every single giant megacorporation to ever exist is morally-correct, possibly even a moral necessity. Case in point:

    26 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    Um, you cannot play Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric and Free Riders officially on PC. Emulated yes, but this adds more complications and you have to hope your PC plays the game smoothly.

    You surely realize that's very obviously preferable to nothing, right? It works decently now and only stands to get better. Emulation and other unofficial ports and versions are objectively good things in regards to Sonic, Nintendo, and every other franchise to end up on the side of a cereal box. There is no actual downside for them or us, other than the time it takes to make it work clientside, and that's a fair tradeoff for the results. I do not care about these businesses or their rights to make money off this stuff. They're not people, I do not have to respect them. It does in fact make sense to be angrier in this instance than others, because it is much less possible to get this game running in an environment that isn't already under an overwhelming amount of corporate control.

    A ton of windows software can either already run on Linux for instance (Linux is open-source and emulator developers like it), or is a good portion of the way there (and some works better there). If this were a case of "not officially supported on non-Apple devices", that would just be a shame for SEGA and Apple missing out on potential customers. By making this thing a subscription and hardware-locked product, that is a lose-lose for all of us, and that decision should not be defended.

    But again, the situation is at least better than I thought a couple days ago. The fact that you can just rip the apps right out of the Mac and run them without a subscription means that the games can be preserved. It should not have to come to that either way and the number of randos I've seen jumping to the defense of either of these awful companies for this (but let's be honest, usually Apple) with the ferocity of an angry chihuahua is concerning. They don't care about you.

    Edited by Shaddy Zaphod
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    36 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    Just to let you know (it's also on the OP article), you can also play this on Apple TV - which is probably the best way to play it (with a controller).

    You clearly missed my point there. I know you can play it on Apple TV - but that doesn't change anything on my Views about this Company. This would also mean that I would have to buy an apple device, which I would never do. And even if I would - the game would still be locked behind said subscription and I would support Apples anti consumer/repair practices, which I simply cannot do. This goes against my personal ethical standards as a repair technician.

    I was just giving some background about why I have this opinion. I simply don't want to give them money in any way possible - as long as they behave like I just pointed out.

    34 minutes ago, GX -The Spindash- said:

    He will tell you every game is canon. This does not mean this game will have narrative that actually matters to later story. Team Sonic Racing is technically canon, and doesn't actually matter to anything else in the broader Sonic narrative outside of one minor very, VERY missable reference in Frontiers.

    Okay, fair point.

    Edited by FReaK
    Added a little more context
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    Ming Ming Hatsune

    Posted (edited)

    40 minutes ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

    Okay well first off, yes I can. Just as easily as SEGA could have not agreed to their bullshit business practices, they could have not had them in the first place. If you're going to argue that the nature of the market compels Apple to be the predatory company that they are, that can also defend SEGA's actions, as well as every other company to ever exist.

    Again, Dream Team would probably not exist if Apple didn't approach Sega to create the game. 

    Quote

    But that's missing the point. There's no reason to single out SEGA or Apple here. If you haven't already hated both of them for years by now, you're probably not paying attention. Shitting on every single giant megacorporation to ever exist is morally-correct, possibly even a moral necessity.

    I don't hate these companies, you're right. And yeah, I agree you have every right to criticise megacorps. If Dream Team can be available on all platforms, that will be great! It's just from a business standpoint for Apple, it doesn't make sense.

    You have a platform and you need it to grow and get more visibility. Look what's happening now. Because Apple secured Dream Team, many Sonic fans now know Apple Arcade exists.

    And I mean come on, you own a gaming business and a megacorp comes and asks you to make an exclusive game, they will showcase your game (which is more visibility for your business) AND have a ton of money that can grow your business even more. It's going to be really hard to turn it down.

    Quote

    You surely realize that's very obviously preferable to nothing, right? It works decently now and only stands to get better. Emulation and other unofficial ports and versions are objectively good things in regards to Sonic, Nintendo, and every other franchise to end up on the side of a cereal box. There is no actual downside for them or us, other than the time it takes to make it work clientside, and that's a fair tradeoff for the results. I do not care about these businesses or their rights to make money off this stuff. They're not people, I do not have to respect them. It does in fact make sense to be angrier in this instance than others, because it is much less possible to get this game running in an environment that isn't already under an overwhelming amount of corporate control.

    It's better than nothing I agree, but it is still not official. And like I pointed out, Dream Team will run on Mac, so if there is a dedicated person/team who wants Dream Team free for anybody with an Apple device - they can do so.

    Quote

    A ton of windows software can either already run on Linux for instance (Linux is open-source and emulator developers like it), or is a good portion of the way there (and some works better there). If this were a case of "not officially supported on non-Apple devices", that would just be a shame for SEGA and Apple missing out on potential customers. By making this thing a subscription and hardware-locked product, that is a lose-lose for all of us, and that decision should not be defended.

    Yes, I agree mega corps don't care about us. I'm fully aware and sadly - there's nothing we can do about it. I've seen exclusive titles go to other platforms and it made me angry. And I'll always agree with you on this game being a "sub-only" game. Can I ask you one question.

    If this game wasn't an AA game, but the game is still an Apple-exclusive title (aka, can be bought on the App Store) would you buy it? Because you said "Apple missing out on potential customers".

    And people need to know this as well, you DO know there are free month trials of Apple Arcade right? You don't have to spend a cent on AA if you never used it before. Just finish the game before the trial is up.

    Really the only roadblock is getting a compatible Apple device. Or even better, purchase an Apple TV, those come with a free AA trial, finish the game before 30 days and return the thing.

    Edited by Ming Ming Hatsune
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    12 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    Again, Dream Team would probably not exist if Apple didn't approach Sega to create the game.

    This does not refute what I said. SEGA and Apple's shitty business practices are not an inevitability, they are a conscious choice. There is no use in defending either with a distinction as broad as this.

    12 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    I don't hate these companies, you're right. And yeah, I agree you have every right to criticise megacorps. If Dream Team can be available on all platforms, that will be great! It's just from a business standpoint for Apple, it doesn't make sense.

    You have a platform and you need it to grow and get more visibility. Look what's happening now. Because Apple secured Dream Team, many Sonic fans now know Apple Arcade exists.

    And I mean come on, you own a gaming business and a megacorp comes and asks you to make an exclusive game, they will showcase your game (which is more visibility for your business) AND have a ton of money that can grow your business even more. It's going to be really hard to turn it down.

    Like I said, "it's just business" will never be a defense here. There isn't anything stopping SEGA and Apple from using their giant piles of money in a way that doesn't abuse their customer base, and if there was, it would still be wrong.

    12 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    It's better than nothing I agree, but it is still not official.

    Who cares? The meaning of "official" is for them, not for us. The only thing to worry about with "official" experiences is accuracy, and we've already talked about fans and devs' dedication to that on a long-term scale.

    12 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    And like I pointed out, Dream Team will run on Mac, so if there is a dedicated person/team who wants Dream Team free for anybody with an Apple device - they can do so.

    12 minutes ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    And like I pointed out, Dream Team will run on Mac, so if there is a dedicated person/team who wants Dream Team free for anybody with an Apple device - they can do so.

    Yes, I agree mega corps don't care about us. I'm fully aware and sadly - there's nothing we can do about it. I've seen exclusive titles go to other platforms and it made me angry. And I'll always agree with you on this game being a "sub-only" game. Can I ask you one question.

    If this game wasn't an AA game, but the game is still an Apple-exclusive title (aka, can be bought on the App Store) would you buy it? Because you said "Apple missing out on potential customers".

    And people need to know this as well, you DO know there are free month trials of Apple Arcade right? You don't have to spend a cent on AA if you never used it before. Just finish the game before the trial is up.

    Really the only roadblock is getting a compatible Apple device. Or even better, purchase an Apple TV, those come with a free AA trial, finish the game before 30 days and return the thing.

    Apple is necessarily missing out on the customers of any platforms they don't bring their software to. I'm sure they don't view it that way, because it would give them less opportunity to gatekeep things to their hardware, but objectively, if they wanted more AA subscribers, all they'd have to do is let you run it on windows and linux.

    I'm not saying it would make them more money (although it might, I'm not an economist), just that it would be the right thing to do. The only way to say this would be wrong is if you're honestly arguing that this game is going to sell a lot of their hardware. And...no, I don't think that's true. Look at your own posts! It says this is for a different base than us.

    Also, calling buying a new piece of expensive hardware "the only roadblock" to playing a single game without acknowledging that this was not a problem for almost every other Sonic product to ever be released is kind of ridiculous.

    I think what you need to understand is that companies like this are ontologically greedy. No demand made against their business practices can ever or will ever constitute selfishness or entitlement. It never had to be like this, no matter what anyone says.

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    Ming Ming Hatsune

    Posted (edited)

    1 hour ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

    This does not refute what I said. SEGA and Apple's shitty business practices are not an inevitability, they are a conscious choice. There is no use in defending either with a distinction as broad as this.

    Like I said, "it's just business" will never be a defense here. There isn't anything stopping SEGA and Apple from using their giant piles of money in a way that doesn't abuse their customer base, and if there was, it would still be wrong.

    How exactly is this game that has no IAP and ads "abusing their customer base?" If you are going to point at the subscription, that is to keep AA sustainable, and invest in more projects. Maybe some profit as well yes, but again if you don't want no part of paying AA, just get a trial.

    Quote

    Apple is necessarily missing out on the customers of any platforms they don't bring their software to. I'm sure they don't view it that way, because it would give them less opportunity to gatekeep things to their hardware, but objectively, if they wanted more AA subscribers, all they'd have to do is let you run it on windows and linux.

    Come on now, you know that is not sustainable in any way. Yes they can make the AA multiplatform, but that's if they want to lose huge amounts of money forever. Developing and optimising games for many devices, takes a lot of work and it's not as simple as Apple Music. It will be NOT worth the effort.

    This is like telling Microsoft to make Gamepass available for Sony and Nintendo consoles.

    And even so, let's say AA does come to Android devices. Dream Team Android will run crap compared to the far superior version on Apple because AA games are first designed for Apple devices. Then what? You're going to moan about Apple/Sega not giving a crap? Not to mention there are hundreds of Android devices that have different specs/chipsets. Developers have said this time and time again, developing games on Apple is easy due to their tight ecosystem.

    Quote

    I'm not saying it would make them more money (although it might, I'm not an economist), just that it would be the right thing to do. The only way to say this would be wrong is if you're honestly arguing that this game is going to sell a lot of their hardware. And...no, I don't think that's true. Look at your own posts! It says this is for a different base than us.

    I don't believe it's going to sell a lot of hardware no, that's crazy. This doesn't apply to you, but let's say one day a Sonic fan's looking for a new phone, and doesn't care what OS it has. That fan maybe tempted to get an iPhone because it has Dream Team and can finally play it. There are lots of consumers who are like this. And the bolded part there, 100%. It's just unfortunate Sonic got roped in to this - again I believe Sonic Racing was one of the most played titles in AA and gave Apple the initiative to go and ask Sega for an exclusive.

    But honestly? I don't think Sonic fans aren't missing much. This isn't Sonic Frontiers. This game, like Kinect with Free Riders is a game that is going to use Apple's devices to the fullest.

    Edited by Ming Ming Hatsune
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    Shaddy Zaphod

    Posted (edited)

    6 hours ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    How exactly is this game that has no IAP and ads "abusing their customer base?" If you are going to point at the subscription, that is to keep AA sustainable, and invest in more projects. Maybe some profit as well yes, but again if you don't want no part of paying AA, just get a trial.

    Buddy, you're doing "It's just business" again. It's not going to work.

    6 hours ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    Come on now, you know that is not sustainable in any way. Yes they can make the AA multiplatform, but that's if they want to lose huge amounts of money forever. Developing and optimising games for many devices, takes a lot of work and it's not as simple as Apple Music. It will be NOT worth the effort.

    This is like telling Microsoft to make Gamepass available for Sony and Nintendo consoles.

    Yes you're correct, Microsoft should do that. I don't care about their profits and neither should you. They're worth more than a trillion dollars, I don't even believe they should exist, fuck their feelings.

    6 hours ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    And even so, let's say AA does come to Android devices. Dream Team Android will run crap compared to the far superior version on Apple because AA games are first designed for Apple devices. Then what? You're going to moan about Apple/Sega not giving a crap? Not to mention there are hundreds of Android devices that have different specs/chipsets. Developers have said this time and time again, developing games on Apple is easy due to their tight ecosystem.

    Why yes, it would be on them for not investing the time and money necessary to make the games work properly, how very astute of you for predicting that entirely-correct opinion. How are you not getting this? They are not struggling. They are not being held back from doing this by any real restriction. They're not doing it because they don't want to, and because they don't care about you or me.

    6 hours ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    I don't believe it's going to sell a lot of hardware no, that's crazy. This doesn't apply to you, but let's say one day a Sonic fan's looking for a new phone, and doesn't care what OS it has. That fan maybe tempted to get an iPhone because it has Dream Team and can finally play it. There are lots of consumers who are like this.

    And that's stupid. That decision is entirely artificially-engineered by psychopaths with no love for games or human life. If you view this as anything but a disgrace to the medium, you're falling for propaganda. It never had to be like this.

    6 hours ago, Ming Ming Hatsune said:

    And the bolded part there, 100%. It's just unfortunate Sonic got roped in to this - again I believe Sonic Racing was one of the most played titles in AA and gave Apple the initiative to go and ask Sega for an exclusive. But honestly? I don't think Sonic fans aren't missing much. This isn't Sonic Frontiers. This game, like Kinect with Free Riders is a game that is going to use Apple's devices to the fullest.

    That is not your judgement to make. This is a new 3D platformer with its own promo animation, an original story from the team we've only had for two games now, and presumably its own OST and maybe even voice acting. It's an entirely unprecedented creation for both HARDLight and the fans perspective, and the only thing you're telling me by dismissing that here is that you don't see much value in any of those people's work on the face of it.

    Edited by Shaddy Zaphod
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    Just… you know. Don’t make the internet a less hospitable place because you might not get to play one specific game.

    Or maybe... you know. SEGA should either:

    A. Release this game on other consoles (notably the Switch) in the near future (after Apple earns enough exclusive greed money).

    B. Develop/announce a new Sonic title with similar content: 3D gameplay, colorful worlds (but not tacky like Lost World), instead of the dreariness of Starfall Islands, and Cream and Rouge (or another character who's affiliation makes sense) as playable characters, Ariem, etc.

    C. Downplay this game as reasonably as possible (no obnoxious tie-in shorts or comics, web or print) and not promote what many will miss out on.

    And... you know. Don't deny people's rights to be upset over what a large business decides to do (especially since you can't rip this game's source code/assets and create ports for all three current-gen consoles).

    But yeah, the closest upcoming alternative I can think of is Penny's Big Breakaway (not-Sonic).

    EDIT: Apparently, you can rip the game files (you'd still need the source codes), according to what people have been saying on this thread. I of course have zero skill in that area, much less the resources to even attempt such a legally gray feat.

    Edited by Johnny2071
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