Why do people want Sonic Adventure 3?

[Kuzu]

The execution may have been poor but these are early games we're talking about. They at least managed to tell the story so you could understand what was going on (unlike '06) and were pretty exciting (unlike Unleashed). We may have better acting and writing now, but there has yet to be a compelling plot to really put them to good use.

Ehh Unleashed kind of had the exciting part in the opening and ending, but yeah.

[lounge]

Did you miss the part where he said the idiots were saying that "Sonic is aimed at kidz nowadayz TROLOLO"? You know, referencing exactly what you and that other dude were saying?

Are you guys seriously fucking misunderstanding this? He was talking about you, Shadic93, and anyone else who said Sonic is a kids franchise. Extaticus was favoring what I was saying about how sonic and mario are intended to be aimed at everyone, not just kids. Which is why I'm angry at Colors for being aimed for children, which also Extaticus was mad about. How hard is it to understand that?!

[Nepenthe]

@ lounge: Just stop trying. The damage has been done. -.-

The execution may have been poor but these are early games we're talking about. They at least managed to tell the story so you could understand what was going on (unlike '06) and were pretty exciting (unlike Unleashed). We may have better acting and writing now, but there has yet to be a compelling plot to really put them to good use.

Following from that, I'd think you'd be hard-pressed to call SA1's story awful. For all of the multiple viewpoints going on for a single plot, it's pretty coherent and consistent. Every character has some justification for being entwined in all the mess going on, and it shed light on a mysterious event highlighted in an instruction manual five years prior without completely screwing that tangent up. All of that's a ton more than you can say for later plots after the Adventures. SA1's most egregious error is the bad voice acting, but I mean, the first game to get people to unanimously agree that all of the actors were good was Colors anyway. :|

[pppp]

Back on topic: People want SA3 because they want Sonic to be the embodiment of their anime fantasies with plots that try to be as "adult" as possible even though that has nothing to do with Oshima and Naka's original vision.

Sonic plots should never be any deeper or more serious than a pixar movie.You can have your emotional/serious moments SEGA,just please don't give me another government conspiracy or alien invasion,that has nothing to do with what made Sonic great in the first place.

[Soniman]

The execution may have been poor but these are early games we're talking about. They at least managed to tell the story so you could understand what was going on (unlike '06) and were pretty exciting (unlike Unleashed). We may have better acting and writing now, but there has yet to be a compelling plot to really put them to good use.

Exactly, I for one think SA1 and 2 have pretty good stories, it was just the dated graphics, bad model animations, and bad voice acting that really brought it down.

[Kuzu]

@ lounge: Just stop trying. The damage has been done. -.-

Following from that, I'd think you'd be hard-pressed to call SA1's story awful. For all of the multiple viewpoints going on for a single plot, it's pretty coherent and consistent. Every character has some justification for being entwined in all the mess going on, and it shed light on a mysterious event highlighted in an instruction manual five years prior without completely screwing that tangent up. All of that's a ton more than you can say for later plots after the Adventures. SA1's most egregious error is the bad voice acting, but I mean, the first game to get people to unanimously agree that all of the actors were good was Colors anyway. :|

That might have something to do with the story not trying to push a certain atmosphere, it just took what it had and ran with it.

Back on topic: People want SA3 because they want Sonic to be the embodiment of their anime fantasies with plots that try to be as "adult" as possible even though that has nothing to do with Oshima and Naka's original vision.

Sonic plots should never be any deeper or more serious than a pixar movie.You can have your emotional/serious moments SEGA,just please don't give me another government conspiracy or alien invasion,that has nothing to do with what made Sonic great in the first place.

How many times have you said this same shit, and we always respond with the same thing "It doesn't matter if damn story is light or dark, execution is what matters", and that's all I'm saying on the subject.

[ArtFenix]

What's the problem guys? Why are you fighting that hard for the idea that Sonic should be as childish as possible? Sonic games are definitely better when aimed at teenagers. You know what? I know, Sonic is not a franchise for adults, but being 22 y.o. I'd rather have another Shth instead of an overly childish cringe worthy mess like Colors. (I thought most of guys here were of my age so I don't get it why 20 y.o. men want Sonic to be childish.)

OK, it's a matter of preference, I suppose, but again, why fighting so hard for Sonic to be for kids (that bullshit that Sonic should be like Saturday morning cartoons) when he already proved to work very well for everyone (Sonic adventure, Sonic adventure 2, Sonic and the black knight etc.)?

Maybe it's not for this topic but some of my friends still laugh at me for being a Sonic fan, because.. because you know, they think it's for kids only. Back in times of Sonic adventure - S06 I could show them that Sonic was actually for everyone. Now I'm not sure if it will work. Do you really prefer Colors kindergarten humor to say, Sonic adventure?

[Rinzler]

What's the problem guys? Why are you fighting that hard for the idea that Sonic should be as childish as possible? Sonic games are definitely better when aimed at teenagers. You know what? I know, Sonic is not a franchise for adults, but being 22 y.o. I'd rather have another Shth instead of an overly childish cringe worthy mess like Colors.

OK, it's a matter of preference, I suppose, but again, why fighting so hard for Sonic to be for kids (that bullshit that Sonic should be like Saturday morning cartoons) when he already proved to work very well for everyone (Sonic adventure, Sonic adventure 2, Sonic and the black knight etc.)?

Maybe it's not for this topic but some of my friends still laugh at me for being a Sonic fan, because//because you know, they think it's for kids only. Back in times of Sonic adventure - S06 I could show them that Sonic is actually for everyone. Now I'm not sure it will work. Do you really prefer Colors kindergarten humor to say, Sonic adventure?

No, but I prefer it to the utter s*** that was S06 and ShtH.

[ArtFenix]

No, but I prefer it to the utter s*** that was S06 and ShtH.

I think Shth and Colors are both over-exaggerations, but Shth was about Shadow the hedgehog, the darkest character in the franchise, while Colors..I hope you got the idea. I do think that Colors is even a better example of exaggeration in the franchise.

Speaking of 06 I like it very much. Plot-wise the game had some serious plot holes and overly dramatic moments but the actual storyline was pretty good, IMO.

[Kuzu]

What's the problem guys? Why are you fighting that hard for the idea that Sonic should be as childish as possible?

If you actually paid attention, no one ever said this. We said Sonic is a family game, and aiming at family starts with the kids.

Sonic games are definitely better when aimed at teenagers

No they do good when they're actually well executed and aren't pieces of shit.

.

You know what? I know, Sonic is not a franchise for adults, but being 22 y.o. I'd rather have another Shth instead of an overly childish cringe worthy mess like Colors. (I thought most of guys here were of my age so I don't get it why 20 y.o. men want Sonic to be childish.)

And I'd(And probably a lot of other people here) rather have something well written than a lame attempt at being Darker and Edgier with use of swearing and guns.

OK, it's a matter of preference, I suppose, but again, why fighting so hard for Sonic to be for kids (that bullshit that Sonic should be like Saturday morning cartoons) when he already proved to work very well for everyone (Sonic adventure, Sonic adventure 2, Sonic and the black knight etc.)?

No one is fighting for him to be for kids you twit, we actually want a story thats engaging and not forcing a certain atmosphere just to appeal to a certain crowd, and that goes for both Colors, ShTH and 06. People hate Black Knight in case you didn't realize, and not everyone here is as in love with the story from Adventures as you think.

.

Back in times of Sonic adventure - S06 I could show them that Sonic is actually for everyone.

You'd still get laughed at for showing them ShTH and 06.

Do you really prefer Colors kindergarten humor to say, Sonic adventure?

No we prefer the superior voice acting and script to Adventure.

[pppp]

...why fighting so hard for Sonic to be for kids (that bullshit that Sonic should be like Saturday morning cartoons) when he already proved to work very well for everyone (Sonic adventure, Sonic adventure 2, Sonic and the black knight etc.)?

As i said: it has nothing to do with the classics,the OVA and the Sonic Jam cartoon. That was Oshima's original vision. Why should i be bored by watching Sonic talk about how being a princess is hard if i can actually have fun by watching him make fun of Eggman like in the Genesis days?

[Xenos]

What's the problem guys? Why are you fighting that hard for the idea that Sonic should be as childish as possible? Sonic games are definitely better when aimed at teenagers. You know what? I know, Sonic is not a franchise for adults, but being 22 y.o. I'd rather have another Shth instead of an overly childish cringe worthy mess like Colors. (I thought most of guys here were of my age so I don't get it why 20 y.o. men want Sonic to be childish.)

OK, it's a matter of preference, I suppose, but again, why fighting so hard for Sonic to be for kids (that bullshit that Sonic should be like Saturday morning cartoons) when he already proved to work very well for everyone (Sonic adventure, Sonic adventure 2, Sonic and the black knight etc.)?

Maybe it's not for this topic but some of my friends still laugh at me for being a Sonic fan, because//because you know, they think it's for kids only. Back in times of Sonic adventure - S06 I could show them that Sonic is actually for everyone. Now I'm not sure it will work. Do you really prefer Colors kindergarten humor to say, Sonic adventure?

I find it funny when we try to argue about Childish vs "Everyone".

I mean, all of the "Serious" games had some really bad, cringeworthy lines.

SA1:

"Aw YEAH! THIS is happenin'!"

"IwonderwhathappenedTooSonic?"

"Tails, you're gonna crash! AAGH!!"

SA2:

"YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

"Let's get to WOOOOAAARK"

"What I do know is....we aaalll did it togetheeerr!"

ShtH:

"MARIAA!"

"FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM!"

"Damnit...Damn....DAMN, Not heeere! Where's that DAMN fourth chaos emerald? DAMN They got away! Damn, we've been detected..."

"*Insert screams and yelps of the horrible 4kids voice acting here*"

S06:

"ELIIIIIIISSSEEE"

"*Insert Omega's overly annoying robotic lines here*"

"Don't you dare turn your back on MHEE"

Not to mention, while Sonic is being stabbed to death, we hear some peaceful, calming, chirping birds. What the hell?

I hate how because SU and SC stories are deemed too "Kiddy", when the games with the "Serious" stories, at incredibly cringeworthy moments of their own.

I'd rather have a few chuckles, short laughs, and bad jokes rather than stare at the screen with my mouth agape wondering where the Voice Acting had gone wrong.

[Voyant]

I'm sure everyone here has seen Avatar: The Last Airbender right? On Nick?

Thats the type of tone and balance the Sonic series should have.

[ArtFenix]

If you actually paid attention, no one ever said this. We said Sonic is a family game, and aiming at family starts with the kids.

[pppp]

I find it funny when we try to argue about Childish vs "Everyone".

I mean, all of the "Serious" games had some really bad, cringeworthy lines.

SA1:

"Aw YEAH! THIS is happenin'!"

"IwonderwhathappenedTooSonic?"

"Tails, you're gonna crash! AAGH!!"

SA2:

"YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

"Let's get to WOOOOAAARK"

"What I do know is....we aaalll did it togetheeerr!"

ShtH:

"MARIAA!"

"FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM!"

"Damnit...Damn....DAMN, Not heeere! Where's that DAMN fourth chaos emerald? DAMN They got away! Damn, we've been detected..."

"*Insert screams and yelps of the horrible 4kids voice acting here*"

S06:

"ELIIIIIIISSSEEE"

"*Insert Omega's overly annoying robotic lines here*"

"Don't you dare turn your back on MHEE"

Not to mention, while Sonic is being stabbed to death, we hear some peaceful, calming, chirping birds. What the hell?

I hate how because SU and SC stories are deemed too "Kiddy", when the games with the "Serious" stories, at incredibly cringeworthy moments of their own.

I'd rather have a few chuckles, short laughs, and bad jokes rather than stare at the screen with my mouth agape wondering where the Voice Acting had gone wrong.

THANK YOU!

[Kuzu]

I find it funny when we try to argue about Childish vs "Everyone".

I mean, all of the "Serious" games had some really bad, cringeworthy lines.

SA1:

"Aw YEAH! THIS is happenin'!"

"IwonderwhathappenedTooSonic?"

"Tails, you're gonna crash! AAGH!!"

SA2:

"YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

"Let's get to WOOOOAAARK"

"What I do know is....we aaalll did it togetheeerr!"

ShtH:

"MARIAA!"

"FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM!"

"Damnit...Damn....DAMN, Not heeere! Where's that DAMN fourth chaos emerald? DAMN They got away! Damn, we've been detected..."

"*Insert screams and yelps of the horrible 4kids voice acting here*"

S06:

"ELIIIIIIISSSEEE"

"*Insert Omega's overly annoying robotic lines here*"

"Don't you dare turn your back on MHEE"

Not to mention, while Sonic is being stabbed to death, we hear some peaceful, calming, chirping birds. What the hell?

I hate how because SU and SC stories are deemed too "Kiddy", when the games with the "Serious" stories, at incredibly cringeworthy moments of their own.

I'd rather have a few chuckles, short laughs, and bad jokes rather than stare at the screen with my mouth agape wondering where the Voice Acting had gone wrong.

There's also the fact that while Unleashed or Color's humor is a bit on the cringe side, at least they tried to be funny, they tried to lighten up the atmosphere by reminding us that its still a fairly cartoon series.

There aren't many times in the Dreamcast era(At least Post-Sa2[with the exception of Heroes] anyway) that tried to be funny or humorous, and most of the "seriousness" is hard to take seriously with all of the derptastic expressions, dialogue and voice acting.

[batson]

I know, mario has cartoony creatures and all, but the games don't shove the idea that this is a kiddy franchise down your face, I guess due to there not being cutscenes with lame dialogue. A good example of a Mario game that uses lots of dialogue to appeal to everyone is Superstar saga. Colors was specifcially said to be aimed to appeal to children. Nintendo never said hey we made Mario 64 or Galaxy to appeal to children. No they always say they want it to appeal to all ages.

Exactly! Seriously, all of you in this thread that argues against lounge here, read the above a couple of times and let it sink in, and you will realise that he has a very good point and that Sonic Colors did indeed do something that the Mario series has never felt the need to do; namely contain elements that were solely intended to appeal to children. If you still dont get it, then let me explain it further:

First of all, it is of course true that colorfull environments and cutesy-characters of the kind that abound in both the Mario and Sonic series are instinctively appealing to kids, but they are also something that adults can and oftend do enjoy as well. The style might be associated primarily with children, but, at least in the video game world, it doesn't have to mean "only for children!". So neither the Mario or the sonic series comes of as pandering exclusively to children because of their styles.

However, there is another element of Sonic Colors that does indeed appear to be designed to only appeal to children; namely, the majority of the jokes. Sonic's cheesy oneliners, those jokes about burps and salad with underwear, it all comes of as incredibly corny to an adult viewer and was obviously written with the intention of being funny to kids. And while there are jokes that appear to be intended to work for all ages, they are drowning in a sea full of kiddie-oriented cornyness.

And this is something that the Sonic series has never done before. Never before has such a large element of a game been of a nature that only appeals to children. And the Mario series has never done it. Most Mario games practically has no story at all and instead manage to engage with gameplay and style alone. But when a game in the series does have a story (and in this series case this usually mean the story is primarily a comedy) it is always a story than is aimed at all ages, with jokes that appeal to all ages. Just play any of the Paper Mario games for instance, and you will find that the vast majority of jokes in them are very witty and definately as funny to an adult as it is to a child.

You see the point now? Segas decision to have a major element of Sonic Colors be aimed solely at children is a big break from the series tradition, and one that the Mario series has never broken.

[Kuzu]

Are you a kid?

At heart yes, and we all started out as kids too, just remember that.

I sort of agree but I still think a well executed game for teenagers is better than same for kids.

A well executed anything is better than either option.

Was I talking about lame attempts? I use Sonic adventure as an example of how great a story can be for everyone I think Colors is a very lame attempt. Your point?

You said you prefer something like ShTH, and I was saying why your logic is flawed. ShTH is just as flawed as Colors, whether you like it or not doesn't change that at all.

I wasn't talking about that either. There was no need to call me a twit.

You accused us of arguing that Sonic should be a kids franchise, and I was explaining what was actually going on because you apparently didn't read the previous pages.

You speak for all people. Wow. Lately I noticed a lot of examples of how good the storyline and Sonic's character in BK are. You said that yourself in another topic.))

That doesn't make the game good, Black Knight is more or less a guilty pleasure for me despite its story.

Same here. Look no further than here:

4/5 people don't make up half of this forum.

It's far more better than the likes of Heroes and Colors.

So to prove to your friends that Sonic is a good franchise, you'd show them two of the worst games of the franchise which are obviously bad, rather than show them a far better made game, simply for the fact that the latter is too kiddy looking?.....Really? That's the most backwards logic I've ever seen.

[Carbo]

I'm surprised so many of you guys rail against Sonic being treated as a kid's franchise, because right now, half of you are acting like petty children yourself. I mean really, what in the actual fuck, you guys.

This is just straight up embarrassing to read, and it's getting awfully personal. If you guys still want to have a topic, drop this inane argument.

[Xenos]

Sonic OVA is aawesome. And I've said what I think about S06.

Xenos, I'd say almost the whole Colors is as bad as the quotes you mentioned.

Yeah, but here's the thing; Sonic Colors isn't trying to be a serious narrative, whereas the quotes I've mentioned are from Sonic Stories trying to be a serious narrative.

Which one will fall apart more?

Yeah, exactly.

EDIT: ...Posted this a second before I saw Carbo's Post, my bad.

[Kuzu]

You see the point now? Segas decision to have a major element of Sonic Colors be aimed solely at children is a big break from the series tradition, and one that the Mario series has never broken.

So games like 06, and ShTH are games that aim for everyone?

[lounge]

That was Oshima's original vision. Why should i be bored by watching Sonic talk about how being a princess is hard if i can actually have fun by watching him make fun of Eggman like in the Genesis days?

sonic makes fun of eggman in all the games. But in Colors it gets to the point where they overdo it in every single damn scene. Eggman isn't threatening anymore. And they make him out to be one of the worst villains ever.

I find it funny when we try to argue about Childish vs "Everyone".

I mean, all of the "Serious" games had some really bad, cringeworthy lines.

SA1:

"Aw YEAH! THIS is happenin'!"

"IwonderwhathappenedTooSonic?"

"Tails, you're gonna crash! AAGH!!"

SA2:

"YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

"Let's get to WOOOOAAARK"

"What I do know is....we aaalll did it togetheeerr!"

ShtH:

"MARIAA!"

"FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM!"

"Damnit...Damn....DAMN, Not heeere! Where's that DAMN fourth chaos emerald? DAMN They got away! Damn, we've been detected..."

"*Insert screams and yelps of the horrible 4kids voice acting here*"

S06:

"ELIIIIIIISSSEEE"

"*Insert Omega's overly annoying robotic lines here*"

"Don't you dare turn your back on MHEE"

Most of those lines are just regular lines. It's the delivery, especially in SA1, that makes the lines sound cringy. But in colors, every single line in every cutscene is an annoying joke intended for children. What do you expect shadow to say when he see's his friend get shot? Honestly. Lines like Find the Computer Room and Lets Get to Work are just regular lines, not bad jokes. Lines like Superpower of teamwork are cringeworthy no matter the delivery, just like Colors.

[Kuzu]

sonic makes fun of eggman in all the games. But in Colors it gets to the point where they overdo it in every single damn scene. Eggman isn't threatening anymore. And they make him out to be one of the worst villains ever.

So because Sonic jokes about Eggman for a few scenes, it makes him a terrible villain? What kind of logic?

[lounge]

So games like 06, and ShTH are games that aim for everyone?

He never said that, stop trying to put words in his mouth.

[Xenos]

sonic makes fun of eggman in all the games. But in Colors it gets to the point where they overdo it in every single damn scene. Eggman isn't threatening anymore. And they make him out to be one of the worst villains ever.

Most of those lines are just regular lines. It's the delivery, especially in SA1, that makes the lines sound cringy. But in colors, every single line in every cutscene is an annoying joke intended for children. What do you expect shadow to say when he see's his friend get shot? Honestly. Lines like Find the Computer Room and Lets Get to Work are just regular lines, not bad jokes. Lines like Superpower of teamwork are cringeworthy no matter the delivery, just like Colors.

And 90's Slang like "This is Happenin'" And the abundance and overuse of the word "Damn" in every possible way it can be said makes me facepalm when I realize I was supposed to take it seriously.