New Smash Bros?

[speedfreak]

I know but it worked better as a special. You couldn't do it on the ground in Brawl, had to be in the air, and fludd was shit anyway. (in brawl, was okay in sunshine)

[Blacklightning]

They need to get rid of shitty fludd and give Mario his spin special back. Fludd was useless trash.

Blasphemy. It's a fantastic edgeguard move, especially because since it doesn't make people flinch, it doesn't restore their triple jump once you hit someone with it - as long as you time it right, it's a guaranteed KO in some circumstances, almost in the same way Mario's cape was in Melee (although I think they nerfed it because people can grab ledges backwards in Brawl, correct me if I'm wrong though). If you don't see any point in it, it's probably because you suck at edgeguarding.

On the other hand, Mario Tornado always seemed like a really redundant move to me. Never really seemed to accomplish anything that a Up+Smash couldn't do better - at least Luigi Tornado was fast enough to sweep up several players in one swoop.

[Thirsty Pocket]

Wait a minute dude, that doesn't make any sense. Were that the case, then Mewtwo should've still be present as a playable fighter in Brawl since he appeared in Melee and Young Link should've still been present instead of Toon Link since he was in Melee as well, yet both got replaced by Lucario and Toon Link respectively. And Tetra is Princess Zelda; unless they're going to include Zelda in her Wind-Waker incarnation, she has very slim chance of appearing by just that reason...yet they could still bypass it if they chose to do so.

But other than that, I doubt the reason for such characters to not be present in this game to be based on them not being present in the previous game before them. We're talking about some rather well known and popular characters of the Zelda series, so who knows whether they will or won't include them.

That's not quite what I meant. The characters you listed were characters that had already been in the games, and what I listed, had yet to be in the games. I think, especially in the case of Zelda characters, that who gets into the games is pretty much based soley around the latest releases in the sereies.

Mewtwo was put into melee in the time of the gold/silver era. He was still a relevant pokemon. The only reason I think he was dropped was because so many people criticized him as the worst character. So they replaced him with a pokemon with better moves and more relevancy to the current gen, Diamond and Pearl. Young Link never really left, but he got re-skinned. It wouldn't make sense to have Twilight Princess Link and Ocarina of Time's young Link in the same game so they put out his second most recent model from windwaker. See what I'm saying?

I'm saying if you are going to see any new content for Zelda aside from Music, it's probably going to be from Skyward Sword, or Spirit Tracks ( ...though unlikely, they may even re-visit Ocarina of Time since that was the latest handheld, even though a remake. )

Just like Mario's Focus will probably be Galaxy, NSMB, or SM3DS, and Metroid will feature lots of things from other M. We may even see some Black and White Pokemon content in the form of a new stage.

Of course this is just judging by the patterns from Melee and Brawl. I'm not saying im right, the man (Sakurai) can prove people wrong easily.

As for Tetra... Well I just don't know. Brawl was allegedly going to have a Toon Zelda and "Toon Shiek" that got cut. I'm still worried about the current Shiek and Zelda. As I said... the new Zelda doesn't look like a fighter ( Yet. )

Edited July 4, 2011 by Lando The Bat

[Candescence]

Just to note, multiple characters from Melee that didn't make it into Brawl were planned to be included in the latter (including Mewtwo and Roy), as the game's files have shown. The main exception was Pichu, who apparently was going to be replaced by a Plusle and Minun team.

[Solly]

He still had his spin special in Brawl, they just mapped it to a different command. Instead of down+B, it's down+A in brawl.

It was still functionally different. You can't use it on the ground or get air with it by rapidly tapping the button.

But I swear, recovery moves are hardly ever an issue for me in Brawl because most of the time when someone dies it's because they passed the side/top edges of the screen. Did anyone else feel this happened more in Brawl than it did in Melee?

Just to note, multiple characters from Melee that didn't make it into Brawl were planned to be included in the latter (including Mewtwo and Roy), as the game's files have shown. The main exception was Pichu, who apparently was going to be replaced by a Plusle and Minun team.

There was also a Toon Zelda.

Also not that I want to debate this because I honestly don't care, but Mewtwo and Roy could easily have been leftovers, right? Nintendo's done it before. The model for the Koroks from Zelda: Wind Waker are left on the disc of Twilight Princess.

[Marcello]

I'd love Dixie Kong. Always been my favorite Kong. I like flying with my hair. ._.

[LimeTH]

I would agree Fludd should probably be removed or modifed. It just seems redundant for Mario to have two completely situational moves that don't do any damage. Fludd and the cape can be useful, yeah, but only in direct curcumstances.

Also, if Meowth isn't playable in this one, I will raeg.

[Facehugger]

That seems like such a redundant complaint to make. Most moves in the game have narrow fields of use. Fludd exists simply as an element of his arsenal that gives him access to edgeguarding, and should stay.

Also, when it comes to competitive play, edgeguarding is a highly renowned tactic, (One of the reasons Meta Knight is such a great character in the meta is because he has incredible edgeguarding skills.)

Edited July 5, 2011 by Facehugger

[Toothpaste]

But I swear, recovery moves are hardly ever an issue for me in Brawl because most of the time when someone dies it's because they passed the side/top edges of the screen. Did anyone else feel this happened more in Brawl than it did in Melee?

[w00tkins]

FLUDD is Olimar's worst nightmare D:

[TheNicollette30]

I want them to add Baby Mario the boss!

[Ekaje]

@The Soldier

Yeah, players survive much longer in Brawl thanks to floater physics and more DI. Not to mention how much more leeway you have in how close you have to be to grab a ledge.

[dabbido]

Okay since we are in the mood of discussing characters and moveset ideas here comes my big EPIC character list post

Mario series:

-Bowser Jr (that would seal the deal for me, he could use his paintbrush, he also has bowsers minions at his disposal (for example two paratroopas lifting him as his Up his sonic roar and all that )

-Waluigi (I guess it would be pretty much complete with Waluigi but I doubt he would have any original moves )

Zelda series:

-Toon Zelda/Shiek? o3o in that case I rather have toon ganon xD but jokes aside I would like Skull Kid or Midna/Wolf link but its not gonna happen

Pokemon series:

-Zoroark (the new lucario, he could use illusion based moves, maybe copying the opposing character for a few secs?

-Gold (with Totodile, Bayleef and Typhlosion ) Hell yeahhh...

-Mewtwo again

DK series:

-King K. Rool (we need more baddies, he has some moves already)

-Dixie

Star Fox:

-Krystal (like it or not we need more females and also a non clone starfox character )

Metroid:

-Sylux (Ridley would be best but hes way too big)

Fire Emblem:

-Lyn

-Roy (this time with a completely original moveset)

Kirby:

-Kirby is pretty much complete, but I guess they could add Knuckle Joe or even the upcoming lance waddle dee xD

Sonic:

-Im really doubting he will re-appear but if he does I strongly doubt he will get another character, but Knuckles would fit so well! At least they could add Shadow and Tails as assists.

MOTHER / Earthbound:

-Masked man ( he is just awesome plus he would be quite different than Lucas and Ness, using his sword and stuff)

Other Nintendo:

-Sukapon :3

-Isaac

3rd Party:

-MEGAMAN (nuff said, just add sonic again and upgrade him and add Rockman and I will be more than happy x3 )

[Facehugger]

I guess it would be pretty much complete with Waluigi but I doubt he would have any original moves

[Shiny Gems]

Personally, I would love to see Mega Man as another third party character in the next Smash Bros game, which I am already excited for, anyway.

Also, for Nintendo characters, I would love to see Mewtwo return, and I would really love to see King K. Rool from the Donkey Kong Country games to be one of the playable characters in this Smash Bros game. At the moment, I do not know who else I'd want to see in this game, but the ones I have already mentioned are ones that I would really love to see for the next Smash Bros. game.

[Phos]

I don't really like Krystal being thought of as a Star Fox regular, the only reason she has anything to do with the franchise is due to badge engineering, and now there's this planet full of dinosaurs and this game were fox went around using a mystic pole arm instead of a gun.

There was also a Toon Zelda.

[SuperStingray]

Did anyone else ever get the idea that being lower than your opponent was an advantage? This made Sonic have a hard time on battlefield.

Not really. Frankly, his aerial Down-A move was one of his better attacks.

[Thirsty Pocket]

What if N were another Pokemon character type character?

I know he had different pokemon in every battle, but I remember Zourark being in the final battle. I think that should be one of them instead of being his own thing. He could come out randomly looking like one of N's other two pokemon until he got hit.

[Facehugger]

Not really. Frankly, his aerial Down-A move was one of his better attacks.

That move is awful. Far too easy to anticipate and avoid. His animation for starting the move is easy to identify, and the attack itself isn't even that fast. It's also a deathwish if you use it near a pit/fall.

A funny thing about Brawl and its lack of combos is that it kind of made all the characters little more than the sum of their parts, only one attack really mattered at a time, basically just a repeated game of "who wins in this situation?".

Oh, you mean same thing as in Melee? Every time you launch a move at your opponent and they respond, second by second it technically boils down to a matter of which move wins out between the combatants. Lack of combos is also a feature present in Melee, and with quite a smaller cast, this issue is all the more prevelant.

Down-repped for facts? Someone is butthurt.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Facehugger

[Solly]

This is true but I'm not sure how it's relevant, She isn't a replacement for someone from Melee.

I was just talking about characters who were left on the disc. It's relevant to THAT. I was just adding some trivia.

TP was based on Wind Waker's engine, Brawl is a whole new game.

This is news to me. I could swear hearing Brawl was based on a modified Melee engine.

[Sean]

I read somewhere that Brawl was based off the then-Kirby Wii game engine, but I can't find a reliable source to back this up.

[Conando]

That's not too unlikely, considering the SSE adventure mode bearing similarities to Kirby games.

[Phos]

Oh, you mean same thing as in Melee? Every time you launch a move at your opponent and they respond, second by second it technically boils down to a matter of which move wins out between the combatants. Lack of combos is also a feature present in Melee, and with quite a smaller cast, this issue is all the more prevelant.

In a game with combos, more things about your character matter (unless we're talking about MvC 3 which goes so far in the other direction to the point of absurdity), different initial hits can be followed up, but where and how depend on the characters in play. In Brawl, the receiving player will just ukemi immediately and the engagement is right back to where it started.

[Remy]

Oh, you mean same thing as in Melee? Every time you launch a move at your opponent and they respond, second by second it technically boils down to a matter of which move wins out between the combatants. Lack of combos is also a feature present in Melee, and with quite a smaller cast, this issue is all the more prevelant.

Down-repped for facts? Someone is butthurt.

It's not a fact, Melee has hitstun and true combos, brawl doesn't. I swear, smash bros players have sucha misunderstanding of the word combo.

This is news to me. I could swear hearing Brawl was based on a modified Melee engine.

New engine... with most of the development done by an external studio (game arts)

[Facehugger]

It's not a fact, Melee has hitstun and true combos, brawl doesn't. I swear, smash bros players have sucha misunderstanding of the word combo.

I have encountered very few attacks in Melee that cause any significant ammount of enemy-incapaciation that clashes with Brawl. Tell me, what are these combos you speak of that only Melee possesses? Because from playing both games, they are fundementally similar, and matches boiled down to who made use of the best individual moves in any given moment over the opponent, throughout the match. Now then, I'll assume you mean combos in combining a character's moveset to pull of chains of attacks/manouvers. This is most definitely possible in Brawl, as such I am finding it hard to see where exactly it is you are coming from in this debate.

What exactly constitutes as a 'true' combo? You seem to be creating sub-categorisation for the sake of dividing the two games, when both in-fact possess the possibility of combo attacks.

In Brawl, the receiving player will just ukemi immediately and the engagement is right back to where it started.

...So the fact that your opponent doesn't sit there and take it while you mash away at buttons bothers you? This whole thing is null and void anyway, it is possible to combo in brawl.

In a game with combos, more things about your character matter

Surely a game where characters recover faster and retalliations come quicker, is the title where aspects of your character matter more, as you must think faster on your feet and take into account every individual move your character possesses in order to generate an advantage over your opponent. It boils the game down to a more tense, match-off of initiation, counter-move, then counter-counter move, which hit harder than most other games, as opposed to catching your opponent in a combo and holding them for ridiculous ammounts of time. As I said, this makes it more difficult to generate advantages over the opponent. Combos are possible, but I'm glad that they aren't the major area of concentration. I much prefer the game where it is of the utmost importance what both players are doing second-by-second, which is how Brawl tends to play out, as opposed to games which emphasise the combo-ing element, and one player tends to end up sitting there waiting for the initiator to finish mashing his buttons, which happens frequently. Brawl is somewhat unique in this regard in that, more of your move-set tends to matter, and every decision seems to carry a greater weight, and possible consequence, and must be made quickly. Edited July 8, 2011 by Facehugger