New Smash Bros?

[Tornado]

Those weren't debatable propositions. Those were facts. If you're going to complain, try to avoid blowing things way out of proportion, you end up appearing clueless and are then forced to come up with pathetic retorts like the above in order to try and salvage some form of credibility. The fact of the matter is, I rendered your original complaint invalid, and if that makes me 'pedantic', then so be it.

BTW, insulting my post is no better than anything I have done here, so I'd be careful how you handle launching that 'It's worse than nothing' accusation, and would implore you to pay attention to your own post before being a hypocrite, in future. I mean, seriously? A post comprised entirely of butthurt and insulting my argument? Are you serious? I correct you on something and invalidate the complaint, and you label me as pedantic and expect that to hold? You have much to learn. Besides, essentially whining at me for being correct is worse than anything my posts have contained here.

Because, as I see it, the only posts here that are 'worse than nothing' in terms of argumentative merit, are the ones you have made. All they comprise of is wrongfull complaints and butthurt responses, bordering on insulting me for being right.

td;lr Your complaint is invalid, don't become butthurt and make pathetic responses expecting them to hold, and if you're going to launch an accusation, at least make sure you wouldn't be a hypocrite in delivering said accusation.

PS: I will give you one thing, though. You are inventive. It's common for people to be insulted for being wrong, but I've never seen anyone insult someone on the basis that they were correct.

That's a really long-winded way of saying "Yay semantics!" Proud you typed that up?

I make an off-hand remark after already explaining my points and you decide to jump on that rather than anything else said in this thread. Your entire argument on this talking point is based on a needling clarification of what was obviously an exaggeration in the first place, and it really makes you look quite the fool when you decide to incorrectly throw around the word "hypocrite" in response because you think it makes you look oh so clever (note: I wasn't being "hypocritical" when I had actually made some other posts debating the topic. Ones that were made up of more than "lolno").

When assholes go out of their way to call other assholes "assholes," all it really accomplishes is make everyone involved look like assholes. I explained my reasoning in a post before the one you started this dick waving contest over. If you had anything of value to contribute to this conversation, you would have debated that post rather than the one you did, or any of the other posts by other members expressing similar sentiment. But instead, you latched onto "you made an exaggeration, so I'll prove your entire argument is invalid" and made a pissing match out of it, which completely sidesteps the main point and isn't even correct in the first place. Pointing out a factual error is not an "I win" button in a debate, especially not when it was obviously made intentionally to prove a point that you completely ignored.

So, again, the more you post, the weaker your argument becomes. Good day.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Tornado

[Chooch]

I still haven't boughten Tekken 6, because all characters are unlocked from the start.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Chooch

[Marcello]

Wh-- What kind of logic is that?

You'd rather have a competitive fighting game game that is primarily designed for multiplayer (if you can even call Smash Bros. that) with close to half the cast taking a multitude of hours to unlock and equaling to thirty or so characters than have a fighting game with over 40 that has them all there to try out from the start?

Yeah. I usually play them alone and if I have all the characters from the start I don't feel motivated, especially for a 60€ game. I'll probably buy it when I can find it for about 10€

[Phos]

I still think that Ike might have started off as Ganondorf using the sword.

Oh, come on, Rayquaza was way more of a Giant Space Flea from Nowhere than Tabuu, and you know it.

[Carbo]

I don't see how that comes as a surprise. All the characters in Smash Bros are dummies and toys who can only communicate through fisticuffs.

Subspace Emissary was enjoyable for me until the ending which was just shitty and rushed. If it wasn't for that stupid gimmick of collecting all of the characters for the final fight, maybe it could have ended on a better note. Sonic's reveal especially wasted a shit ton of potential.

[Facehugger]

That's a really long-winded way of saying "Yay semantics!" Proud you typed that up?

Edited July 2, 2011 by Facehugger

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't see how that comes as a surprise. All the characters in Smash Bros are dummies and toys who can only communicate through fisticuffs.

[Tornado]

Same song, different verse.

And why do you think I picked that particular point? It was in error, I merely sought to correct it.

And you seemed to know from the start that it was in error made on purpose, as would anybody who has ever touched the game; so again, what was the point of this?

I do not know your intelligence level, (Though this exchange has given me a pretty good idea, but that is an argument for another day.)

so, when you post something foolish, the safer bet is to merely correct it and hope the other person doesn't flip out because he was incorrect.

When you post something with the intent behind the message clear, and someone clearly knows the intent and proceeds to pick it apart anyways without making it clear why they are doing so, I think the first person flipping out is more than acceptable.

Actually, within the context of this 'debate' alone, you are by definition hypocritical. You are defending a long-lost point with sub-par arguments

I am? I'm pretty sure I admitted you were right in your correction in my first response to you.

You're even admitting it was an exagerated point.

Which is not something I ever denied.

Me: You made an error, and I corrected it. (Which you did, and admitted to.)

You: My other points were valid things, why didn't you counter them?

Except I didn't. I made a broad strokes argument about something I think is a problem in modern game design, and said it applied to Brawl. You said the argument didn't apply as much as I made it out to, which no shit it doesn't. No one who as ever played the game would say it did.

You make an error, I correct. It should have ended there really.

And what was the point of correcting it in the first place? I'm pretty sure this is the crux of the matter, so if you can come up with a reasonable response for this I'll happily let the whole thing go.

I recognize what you are attempting to say. I have since your second post. Exaggerations are bad, etc. I disagree, but I can see why you are saying it. My question is, in a topic that will only really be viewed by people who know the exact situation and all the details, what the hell difference does it make?

Edited July 3, 2011 by Tornado

[Swiss]

As long as they bring this back for the next Smash Bros., I'll be happy:

[Facehugger]

And you seemed to know from the start that it was in error made on purpose, as would anybody who has ever touched the game; so again, what was the point of this?

I was not aware that it was a purposeful error. This is testament to how you aren't properly reading my posts. I outright stated that I was initially unsure.

When you post something with the intent behind the message clear, and someone clearly knows the intent and proceeds to pick it apart anyways without making it clear why they are doing so, I think the first person flipping out is more than acceptable.

I've made it clear multiple times why that particular notion was contested. How many times must I repeat myself before basic messages sink in?

'Picking it apart' is also an exageration. It was a simple correction. No need to make it out to be more than it is to validate another exageration.

I am? I'm pretty sure I admitted you were right in your correction in my first response to you.

You have also been grasping at sraws and gathering excuses to whine at me for things you are doing yourself. Again, hypocrite.

Except I didn't.

Yes, you did. Wether it was intentional or not, it remains incorrect. The means behind why you did something do not change what you did. Baaawww all you want about me just boiling it down to semantics, but I wouldn't have to argue on this level against you if you understood basic logic.

I made a broad strokes argument about something I think is a problem in modern game design, and said it applied to Brawl. You said the argument didn't apply as much as I made it out to, which no shit it doesn't. No one who as ever played the game would say it did.

See? There you are admitting to my standpoint, and yet you continue to argue.

And what was the point of correcting it in the first place? I'm pretty sure this is the crux of the matter, so if you can come up with a reasonable response for this I'll happily let the whole thing go.

If you want an honest answer, I'm sick of whiney fucktards making bullshit complaints to validate their opinions, even though the act is somewhat self-defeating, and then flipping out because someone made mention of it. That being said, why I did it was irrelevant and doesn't change anything.

I recognize what you are attempting to say. I have since your second post. Exaggerations are bad, etc. I disagree, but I can see why you are saying it.

Golden example of misrepresentation, and strawman. Read the above points.

My question is, in a topic that will only really be viewed by people who know the exact situation and all the details, what the hell difference does it make?

Do you know what my question is, then? Why make an exageration of such folly in the first place? I too can spin questions out to convey the illusion of superiority, too. It is irrelevant what the effect is on an asumed entirety of audience. Edited July 3, 2011 by Facehugger

[Sean]

Right, I think that's enough of this argument. Both sides are doing nothing but getting annoyed at each other, and this tangent isn't related to the topic anyway. So back on the topic you go.

[#EndyGate]

So, how about that Bowser Jr.

[Chooch]

Bowser Jr. is one of the few Mario characters left that I'd like to see introduced in a new Smash Bros. game.

He seems like a likely addition and I'd most certainly use him given the chance.

[Thirsty Pocket]

So, how about that Bowser Jr.

I think he'd be the only new Mario character I'd accept into the roster, provided he's not a mini Bowser. Personally I think his moveset should include little quirks from the Koopalings, sort of like how the two MOTHER characters use PSI powers that aren't theres. For example, say his over and B move is to roll about on top of Lemmy's yellow ball ( like Wario's motorcycle, but it bounces. ) He could spit a fireball, like Ludwig in supermario world, as opposed to Bowser's fire stream. He could keep Bowser's whirling fortress, since it's sort of a trademark of Koopas. I just hope his final smash involves an Air Ship.

Of course I wouldn't be opposed to Waluigi coming in too, to represent those lame Mario Party games, with a moveset taken from them... And im sure he would count as a Mario character since he's never been seen in a Wario Game.

[Shoot em up Capbusta]

Bowser jr. could be a cool character as long as he's no bowser clone. I'd imagine he would use his magic paint brush and stuff would be pretty cool.

[Thirsty Pocket]

Nintendo only has one other fighting game as far as I am aware of, Joy Mech Fight. I don't get why Sukapon hasn't made his grand appearance yet. He may have a somewhat limited moveset, but just like with Ness and Lucas, he could easily take moves from the other fighters in the game. I feel the same way for Little Mac of Punch-Out!!

[#EndyGate]

I think he'd be the only new Mario character I'd accept into the roster, provided he's not a mini Bowser. Personally I think his moveset should include little quirks from the Koopalings, sort of like how the two MOTHER characters use PSI powers that aren't theres. For example, say his over and B move is to roll about on top of Lemmy's yellow ball ( like Wario's motorcycle, but it bounces. ) He could spit a fireball, like Ludwig in supermario world, as opposed to Bowser's fire stream. He could keep Bowser's whirling fortress, since it's sort of a trademark of Koopas. I just hope his final smash involves an Air Ship.

Of course I wouldn't be opposed to Waluigi coming in too, to represent those lame Mario Party games, with a moveset taken from them... And im sure he would count as a Mario character since he's never been seen in a Wario Game.

I'd personally think that bowser Jr. would focus a tad bit more on his paintbrush, though I do like your idea as well, maybe at it to his version of the whirling fortress or even allowing him to change into Shadow Mario with his down B move. The airship for his final smash seems likely seeing as most of his previous appearances had him in that or in his own Koopa Clown car (which it could also turn out to be)

As for Waluigi, he could potentially reference all of the Mario spin-offs in his move sets whether it be his B moves or his standard attacks. Like using a Go kart in the same fashion as Wario's bike, or hurling giant pinballs to refrence his stage from both mario kart DS and mario sports mix. Though I'd be fine as long as his final smash happens to be Waluigi mecha (or have it at least appear if there is a Waluigi Pinball stage)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Couldn't Bowser Jr. use that magic brush he had in Sunshine for some serious ass-kicking? Just a thought.

[Saint Nathan]

Bowser Jr. would be awesome if he was actually more like Kirby and Zelda. Quick and fast, but not powerful, and he can transform into Shadow Mario, who is just pretty much Mario with quirked attacks (side smash attack hits in three directions, but he's stuck for a second afterwards. His upB goes higher but does less damage)

[Thirsty Pocket]

Couldn't Bowser Jr. use that magic brush he had in Sunshine for some serious ass-kicking? Just a thought.

I'm not sure why people love his big ol brush so much. He only used it in one game, and even then, he didn't really use it for much... It was actually the mask that turned him into Shadow Mario, not the brush, though he probably drew the pattern with the brush. ( Why do people want Shadow Mario anyway? ) Not that I am saying he wouldn't use it. I want to say it'd be used for a smash attack like Ness's baseball bat.

Gonna just ramble on a few characters I'd like to see now...

Does anyone think that Duster would make a great character? The only thing Lucas stole from him is Rope Snake, he's got lots of great theif tools to utilize. I'd like to say Masked man would be pretty cool too, but I'd rather see another EarthBound or MOTHER 1 character join in as the fourth character.

If Krystal isn't the fourth starfox character, with a moveset based off of Adventure and not another Fox clone, I will throw quite a fit. I'm no fan of her, but really, a third clone was too much.

Dixie Kong is pretty likely to show up this time, considering she was planned to appear in Brawl ( but then again, so was Toon Zelda and Toon Shiek so I don't know what to think about that... ) but really, all I want out of the DK series is K. Rool. He didn't have much support, but I think that's just a lack of fanboys/fangirls for the DK series and his grotesque appearance talking. He had amazing moveset potential, thanks to the alternate personnas he adopted throughout the sereis ( I don't give a damn what some grunt who typed up his bio in Brawl's trophy data says, Captain K.Rool is NOT his brother ) and he was a pretty funny character to boot. I don't get the opposition.

Im wondering what is to become of Toon Link and Shiek. The new Zelda appears to not be much of a fighter, and I doubt she'll adopt a ninja personna ( not that it stopped them when TP Zelda didn't ) but I guess I'll have to wait and see the full game. We can expect Link to get a slight model change ( and I do mean Slight, since very little is different about the new Link ) ...but I don't think we're going to see much more of toon Link, since he was banished to handheld games, but OOT 3DS was made, and now Im worried for his fate. Maybe young Link will come back? or if I had my way, young Link would be replaced by "Classic Link" ...the short, brown haired, brown shirted, yellow hat stripe having twelve year old Link from the NES. So far the only thing he doesn't have that the other Links do is the hookshot. I really don't see any new Zelda characters becoming playable beyond the four we have. Tetra, Zant and Midna lost their chance when they weren't in Brawl. Skull kid lost his chance when he wasn't in Melee. I honestly want to see Tingle. But he gets too much hate from non-japanese for anyone to want to see him again. He's been banished to his own series thanks to the whiners.

I agree to people saying third parties should get one per series. They really should be treated as special guests. I know it's a shame we won't ever get to fight Tails and Luigi or Knuckles and Wario but what can you do? Megaman aside, I'd like to see the whip cracking vampire hunter that made Castlevania famous. I'm talking about Simon Belmont. It's a shame I don't expect a third party to get more than one, since CastleVania is a Konami series, and we already got Snake.

And character skins. I can't begin to describe how upset I was that Wario was the only one who would get one ( As happy as I was to get his overalls. ) Almost every character in the game had several different costumes they have donned in their games, or resembled other characters enough to make them into different skins. I don't think there would be a damn person alive who would lament the loss of "easy to identify in team battle" colors in favor of things like Doctor Mario, Zora Armor Link, Metal Sonic, Pit with the three sacred treasures, Louie ( from Pikmin 2 ), and the female pokemon trainer.

[Diogenes]

I'm not sure why people love his big ol brush so much. He only used it in one game,

The game he was introduced in, as well as his most major appearance. Plus it's a good way to avoid him being just a mini-Bowser.

I'm not a fan of him turning into Shadow Mario, tho'; what would that really offer? Shadow Mario is a fake Mario; we already have Mario if you want to play as Mario. Personally I'd rather he use it to spray paint-goop on other fighters (and maybe have it stick on the stage a bit, make it slippery or sticky or something?).

[Chooch]

If you're going to make Bowser Jr. playable, he should have his paintbrush. I feel like it's a major component of what makes him interesting and as Diogenes said, it gives him more leeway to not be a clone of Bowser.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I really don't see any new Zelda characters becoming playable beyond the four we have. Tetra, Zant and Midna lost their chance when they weren't in Brawl. Skull kid lost his chance when he wasn't in Melee.

Wait a minute dude, that doesn't make any sense. Were that the case, then Mewtwo should've still be present as a playable fighter in Brawl since he appeared in Melee and Young Link should've still been present instead of Toon Link since he was in Melee as well, yet both got replaced by Lucario and Toon Link respectively. And Tetra is Princess Zelda; unless they're going to include Zelda in her Wind-Waker incarnation, she has very slim chance of appearing by just that reason...yet they could still bypass it if they chose to do so.

But other than that, I doubt the reason for such characters to not be present in this game to be based on them not being present in the previous game before them. We're talking about some rather well known and popular characters of the Zelda series, so who knows whether they will or won't include them.

[speedfreak]

They need to get rid of shitty fludd and give Mario his spin special back. Fludd was useless trash.

As far as Bowser Jr. goes, I'd prefer Rosalina but I know Jr. is more likely.

Edited July 4, 2011 by speedfreak

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

They need to get rid of shitty fludd and give Mario his spin special back. Fludd was useless trash.

He still had his spin special in Brawl, they just mapped it to a different command. Instead of down+B, it's down+A in brawl.