General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Sami]

Oh, you mean the same company that purposefully let third-parties games cover the majority of the 3DS' launch titles?

 

You mean when it was overpriced and floundering in sales? Yeah, that's the one.

 

oh, and making an investment on a Nintendo portable is a lot more likely to be a successful venture than a Nintendo console; always has been that way.

 

Either way, the Wii U isn't a handheld. Name one time third parties got good treatment on a Nintendo console.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Discoid

[tenchibr]

So reporters should do Nintendo's job for them?

 

No, but that doesn't mean they should make it difficult for them to do so either.

 

I get this feeling that some of you just want the Wii U to fail. If Nintendo fucked up in the past, fine, I understand. But in today's gaming world, everyone is a criminal by now and will pay for it.

 

I don't have to mention MS, and in case you forget, Sony has done terrible decisions in the past as well (OtherOS, PSP Marcus campaign).

 

My point is that, yes, Nintendo needs to stop walking around in circles and actually DO something, but we don't need the media getting in their way and making it difficult for them. If Nintendo doesn't step up, then they have no one to blame but themselves at that point. Otherwise, they need to stop bullying them.

Edited August 1, 2013 by tenchibr

[Kareemadeem]

Either way, the Wii U isn't a handheld. Name one time third parties got good treatment on a Nintendo console.

Ubisoft's Just Dance and Just Dance 2 sold pretty well on the Nintendo Wii.

[The Kid]

You mean when it was overpriced and floundering in sales? Yeah, that's the one.

 

oh, and making an investment on a Nintendo portable is a lot more likely to be a successful venture than a Nintendo console; always has been that way.

 

Either way, the Wii U isn't a handheld. Name one time third parties got good treatment on a Nintendo console.

 

Sega?

[Willsy]

Well Sega and Nintendo are very close which I find ironic, but still....

[PSI Wind]

Exactly what HAS Nintendo done that pissed third-parties off for the Wii U?

[Mr Useful]

Exactly what HAS Nintendo done that pissed third-parties off for the Wii U?

Off the top of my head? Make a system of current gen tech and their "kiddy" image won't get the COD crowd.

[Conando]

They don't seem to like Online Passes.

[RK64]

Exactly what HAS Nintendo done that pissed third-parties off for the Wii U?

 

Short and simple; they don't care about third parties. 

 

Nintendo since the NES see's themselves as leaders in the gaming industry and since they were the kings in the NES/SNES days, they had tremendous control over third party games and got the most exclusives.  Before the N64 launched, they had the potentially smart option to make a system with Sony that would have used the CD format, but before the deal was final they more or less said FU to Sony and gave Phillips the Zelda license to make three horrible Zelda games for the domed Phillips CD (I think that's what it was called) system. 

 

Then they launched the N64 with expensive cartages (which had very little storage) and the fact that Sony's system was not only easer to develop for but had more space made many 3rd parties make exclusive PS1 games like FF VII and Metal Gear, leaving Nintendo to fend for themselves.  They tried to fix things with the GC (which was very powerful at its time) but thanks to the different controller and once again small disk space (1.5 GB) third parties pushed there games onto the PS2/Xbox.  Nintendo did get great games from them however and many multiplatform games did come to the GC. 

 

The Wii was an interesting case as 3rd parties wanted to bounce off of the its success, but due to the hardware basicly being a supped-up GC, they couldn't port over there PS3/360 games and there original games like Dead Space Extraction, Red Steel 2, No More Heroes and the like did not sell, making them just crank out mini game collection or Wii Fit clones to cash in on casual's.

 

With that in mind, why do you think the Wii U has little 3rd party support ?

Edited August 1, 2013 by RK64

[PSI Wind]

Short and simple; they don't care about third parties. 

 

Nintendo since the NES see's themselves as leaders in the gaming industry and since they were the kings in the NES/SNES days, they had tremendous control over third party games and got the most exclusives.  Before the N64 launched, they had the potentially smart option to make a system with Sony that would have used the CD format, but before the deal was final they more or less said FU to Sony and gave Phillips the Zelda license to make three horrible Zelda games for the domed Phillips CD (I think that's what it was called) system. 

 

Then they launched the N64 with expensive cartages (which had very little storage) and the fact that Sony's system was not only easer to develop for but had more space made many 3rd parties make exclusive PS1 games like FF VII and Metal Gear, leaving Nintendo to fend for themselves.  They tried to fix things with the GC (which was very powerful at its time) but thanks to the different controller and once again small disk space (1.5 GB) third parties pushed there games onto the PS2/Xbox.  Nintendo did get great games from them however and many multiplatform games did come to the GC. 

 

The Wii was an interesting case as 3rd parties wanted to bounce off of the its success, but due to the hardware basicly being a supped-up GC, they couldn't port over there PS3/360 games and there original games like Dead Space Extraction, Red Steel 2, No More Heroes and the like did not sell, making them just crank out mini game collection or Wii Fit clones to case in on casual's.

 

With that in mind, why do you think the Wii U has little 3rd party support ?

No More Heroes did sell though.

[RK64]

No More Heroes did sell though.

 

Ops, my bad

 

Sill, my point was that Nintendo damaged there relations with 3rd parties so badly, that they simplify don't see the need to support the Wii U, especially with them unable to get any profit off of the games. 

[Chooch]

I get this feeling that some of you just want the Wii U to fail.

No I fucking don't. You can take that nonsense somewhere else.

 

I just want Nintendo to pull their heads out of their collective asses and stop living in a fucking bubble. Every major mistake they've made since the Nintendo 64 days can be attributed to that. Nintendo isn't being bullied any more than other major console makers have been in the past when they made stupid fucking mistakes. What is happening now is a product of several years of ignorance.

 

You reap what you fucking sow. Simple as that. If there is any reason why people seem to be harder on Nintendo than others is because they have far higher expectations than the competition. Their company name and several of their IPs are synopsis with gaming in general. They saved the gaming industry from the crash of 1985. Why shouldn't people have high expectations?

 

No one let up on me or Sony when they released their FIVE HUNDRED AND NINETY US DOLLARS RIIIIIIIIIDGE RAAAAAAACERRRRR machine that has NO GAEMS back in 2006, so don't blame me if I have little to no empathy towards Nintendo or the early Wii U adopter.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Chooch

[Sami]

No, but that doesn't mean they should make it difficult for them to do so either.

 

I get this feeling that some of you just want the Wii U to fail. If Nintendo fucked up in the past, fine, I understand. But in today's gaming world, everyone is a criminal by now and will pay for it.

 

I don't have to mention MS, and in case you forget, Sony has done terrible decisions in the past as well (OtherOS, PSP Marcus campaign).

 

My point is that, yes, Nintendo needs to stop walking around in circles and actually DO something, but we don't need the media getting in their way and making it difficult for them. If Nintendo doesn't step up, then they have no one to blame but themselves at the point. Otherwise, they need to stop bullying them.

 

I want them to get their head out of the sand and stop playing in their own little sandbox. I want them to listen to complaints and actually improve themselves. I want them to cut the fucking arrogance and make better hardware at a better price.

 

I want online play on Nintendo to stop being a fucking joke.

 

When I see both of Nintendo's biggest competitors boasting new features for their consoles, I want Nintendo to step up and compete.

 

I want their flagship franchises to become AAA hard-hitting, inspired and memorable games again, rather than stay safe and pump out the same old formulas. More of this (fully voice acted, really unique gameplay, long and in-depth story, good online mode), please.

 

I want them to build their hardware competently, rather than pretend their competitors don't exist.

 

I want them to stop doing shit like this, when other people are delivering much more value.

 

I want them to stop trying to capitalize on gimmicks and focus on things that actually matter.

 

I think there are more, but that's all I could think of off the top of my head.

 

And if it'll take a complete and total failure for Nintendo to get their head out of the sand, then yes, that's exactly what I want.

 

I don't want them to die. I want them to learn. I want them to improve. Because that is what's good for the industry. Not a Nintendo pity party.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Discoid

[RisingForever]

No More Heroes did sell though.

 

It really didn't. I know VG Chartz may not be the most accurate representation of game sales but unless their off by a ridiculous amount that is really bad for a game with an install base of 100 million. To be fair though, M-rated games have never sold well on the Nintendo consoles.

[PSI Wind]

It really didn't. I know VG Chartz may not be the most accurate representation of game sales but unless their off by a ridiculous amount that is really bad for a game with an install base of 100 million. To be fair though, M-rated games have never sold well on the Nintendo consoles.

It sold well enough to get a sequel and Suda was happy with the sales.

[Conando]

Nintendo turning into the competition is good for the industry? Sorry, but this industry is a fucking mess. Nintendo isn't doing it exactly right either, but the last thing we need is for them to do exactly what most publishers are doing these days, it's killing the industry bit by bit.

[PSI Wind]

You know what? If it is killing the industry, then let them do it. This industry is in a DIRE need a crash.

[Conando]

I suspect it will by the end of this coming generation.

[Solkia]

So you're saying all companies except Nintendo should fail because the industry sucks.

 

This strawman was intentional by the way. This thread is a hoot.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Solkia

[PSI Wind]

So you're saying all companies except Nintendo should fail because the industry sucks.

 

This strawman was intentional by the way. This thread is a hoot.

It certainly wouldn't just be Nintendo, but if it stops all the saturation of genres, I'm all for it.

[The Kid]

I want them to get their head out of the sand and stop playing in their own little sandbox. I want them to listen to complaints and actually improve themselves. I want them to cut the fucking arrogance and make better hardware at a better price.

 

I want online play on Nintendo to stop being a fucking joke.

 

When I see both of Nintendo's biggest competitors boasting new features for their consoles, I want Nintendo to step up and compete.

 

I want their flagship franchises to become AAA hard-hitting, inspired and memorable games again, rather than stay safe and pump out the same old formulas. More of this (fully voice acted, really unique gameplay, long and in-depth story, good online mode), please.

 

I want them to build their hardware competently, rather than pretend their competitors don't exist and that they exist in a vacuum where people will buy their stuff regardless of other factors.

 

I want them to stop doing shit like this, when other people are delivering much more value.

 

I want them to stop trying to capitalize on gimmicks and focus on things that actually matter.

 

I think there are more, but that's all I could think of off the top of my head.

 

And if it'll take a complete and total failure for Nintendo to get their head out of the sand, then yes, that's exactly what I want.

 

I don't want them to die. I want them to learn. I want them to improve. Because that is what's good for the industry. Not a Nintendo pity party.

 

You know what I want? I want less of "Nintendo needs to make another HD  Vanilla Gaming Box" mindset. Yes, they should up their hardware, but I'd rather see them fail then have them turn into another box like the PS4 and Xbox One, where it's essentially a hardware upgrade from the previous generation. I don't want them to completely fall in line because that partially takes away what Nintendo is, thinking outside the box (pun intended).

 

Yes, they need to start getting with online capabilities and make their systems more comparable to other companies in terms of hardware (so that third parties can run games without situations like with the Wii).

 

Don't even tell me that they should pump out Triple A titles that are memorable. You act like Triple A titles are the epitome of game variety and form memorable experiences that aren't almost forgotten about months later (GAF had a whole thread on Infinite and Tomb Raider being forgotten the second The Last of Us came out). You act like all of Nintendo's games play it safe, and aren't memorable. This isn't true at all (it may be for you, but not for everyone else) 

 

And again, these "gimmicks", some people actually like them each generation, and nothing is saying that can't have a friendly architecture and "gimmicks".

 

Yes Nintendo needs to pull their heads out of their asses, but not try to turn into another carbon copy of the other two systems.

Edited August 1, 2013 by The Kid

[Conando]

So you're saying all companies except Nintendo should fail because the industry sucks.

 

This strawman was intentional by the way. This thread is a hoot.

I would say it's more of a Western 3rd party issue at this point in time. Microsoft is all over that, while Sony dabbles with it. Oh, and Capcom jumped in headfirst and broke their neck.

[RisingForever]

It sold well enough to get a sequel and Suda was happy with the sales.

 

It sold well enough to get a sequel, but it wasn't a hit or a good example of third-party/mature selling on the Wii or other Nintendo consoles, which was more the point I'm assuming. It also doesn't help the sequel sold less than the first game.

 

 

You know what? If it is killing the industry, then let them do it. This industry is in a DIRE need a crash.

 

Do you seriously think its a good idea for its industry to crash? This industry rivals the movie industry now, it's not like thirty years ago where it was more like the .com boom. And it won't crash anyway because the industry is too big in a good way to crash. They are too many different ways to make games that if big blockbuster games stop being made it won't be a full crash.

 

I suspect it will by the end of this coming generation.

 

I don't think that's going to happen just because as consoles this gen become more like PCs development will become cheaper and quicker. I think whats more likely to die is third party console exclusives or delayed PC releases.

[Solkia]

It certainly wouldn't just be Nintendo, but if it stops all the saturation of genres, I'm all for it.

 

You do realize Genre saturation was about the same and possibly even worse in the 80's and 90's right? Platformers and JRPGs up the ass? 

[tenchibr]

Before I begin, let me just say that what you just did is 10 times better than what the media is doing NOW. You at least are giving suggestions instead of just downright bashing Nintendo to the ground, and I appreciate that. But some of it I agree and some of it I disagree, so I have to dissect your post accordingly:
 

I want them to get their head out of the sand and stop playing in their own little sandbox. I want them to listen to complaints and actually improve themselves. I want them to cut the fucking arrogance and make better hardware at a better price.
 
I want online play on Nintendo to stop being a fucking joke.

 
I agree. If they don't implement online on something so core like Mario today, especially when they were the pioneers of 3D platforming with him, then what the hell is Miiverse for?
 

When I see both of Nintendo's biggest competitors boasting new features for their consoles, I want Nintendo to step up and compete.

 
 
Again, you are talking about the lack of online on Wii U, and again, I agree. The Wii U promised more online connectivity but they are not delivering it; ironically, they are promoting the 3DS' Image Share feature, where you can take screenshots of 3DS games saved on your SD Card and upload to facebook or Twitter directly from the 3DS. Why can't the Wii U have that too?
 

I want their flagship franchises to become AAA hard-hitting, inspired and memorable games again, rather than stay safe and pump out the same old formulas. More of this (fully voice acted, really unique gameplay, long and in-depth story, good online mode), please.

 
 
Now I have to ask: When has AAA become such a good thing? I never thought of Mario or Zelda as AAA; I find it hard to believe that the budget costs for those series run into hundreds of millions of dollars. Kid Icarus is a reinvention of a 20 year old series so there was little to no familiarity between Uprising and the original and that's why Nintendo allowed it to have such creative freedom away from its predecessor.
 
The day Zelda gets voice acting will be the day gaming dies, because what made the original Zelda so enticing was the idea of taking your imagination to this fantasy world, and adding voices or other modern gaming concepts - like achievements, will just take away from immersion. Link has always been mute, and if they add voice to every Zelda character minus Link, it will be anti-climactic, but even worse would be giving Link a voice. After all, we all have our own interpretations of Link, and by giving him a voice, like giving Samus a voice (and character), will create sure division in the community, and that's the last thing Nintendo needs right now. And Skyward Sword ranks on my top 3 favorite Zelda titles of all time by the way; it was far from safe with its Motion-Plus gameplay and it actually worked!
 

I want them to build their hardware competently, rather than pretend their competitors don't exist.

They are building it competently, but not in terms of power, but rather price. Although I have to agree that the system needs a price drop badly or at the very least, needs to be bundled with another game alongside Nintendoland. If they bundled Pikmin 3 with the same price they have it going now, word of mouth over the quality of that game (spoiler: it's damn good) would spread like wildfire and Nintendo would get the sales they desperately need. Nintendo doesn't fight power with power; they march to the beat of their own drum, and I admire that. I don't want Nintendo to make an Xbox or Playstation clone. Gameplay > Graphics.
 

I want them to stop doing shit like this, when other people are delivering much more value.

Let's ignore Mario's 25th, because that was aimed directly at Mario fans, and let's ignore MGS HD and Ico/Shadow, which have been out for a while so their prices have lowered accordingly.
 
I agree that WWHD is too high priced for what it is, and should have been priced competitively at $40 like KH1.5HD. With that said, KH is third-party, which means they have to put out a competitive price right now, especially with the PS4 coming out not long after, while WWHD is a Wii U-exclusive, and as we know, there's not a lot of good Wii U titles out right now. Scarcity drives demand; sad, but true. Another question is who has the higher fanbase? KH or Zelda? But I agree that the Nintendo Tax is bullshit.
 

I want them to stop trying to capitalize on gimmicks and focus on things that actually matter.
 
I think there are more, but that's all I could think of off the top of my head.
 
And if it'll take a complete and total failure for Nintendo to get their head out of the sand, then yes, that's exactly what I want.
 
I don't want them to die. I want them to learn. I want them to improve. Because that is what's good for the industry. Not a Nintendo pity party.

 

The 3DS' 3D is garbage and we all know that. Nintendo does too because they barely mention it now. The Gamepad being a gimmick? Too early to tell. All I can say is when it comes to the Gamepad, it unfortunately suffers from being a terrible concept to sell to the consumer, but it is a great one. It's true when people say you have to play with it for a while to get it, and that's the Wii U's biggest flaw. I have yet to see a marketing strategy that truly captures what the Wii U is all about, and some of it is from lack of trying, and others, it's just poor communication.

 

All I am saying is just like you are tired of people acting pitiful towards Nintendo (I wasn't by the way), I am also tired of people just bitching with no actual solutions to the problem. In any aspect of life, I respect those who tell me that they have a problem with something but also deliver a possible solution. Otherwise, it's just downright whining.