General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[NiGHTS]

Im sure there going to use the profiles from the Nintendo website to link it and stuff. I much rather have that.

[Conando]

It could be the Club Nintendo accounts but, I fgure it will be a different account though you'll obviously be able to link your Club Nintendo account for registration purposes.

[NiGHTS]

Maybe a combo of the club nintendo, cause I know Nintendo wants its accounts to grow, and also more things you buy, you can register your points to Club Nintendo to win free things.

[SuperStingray]

The question now is will we have to pay to play online? Considering the WFC was free to use and they want to keep their consoles welcoming to a mass market, I really doubt they'll make you pay for a "Gold" subscription, but it's still in the air.

[Conando]

Considering their stance on DLC, it's highly unlikely.

[Nintendoga]

Just a roundup from Nintendo's Financial meeting

Wii U:

• User accounts: Wii U will have individual user accounts, rather than one system-wide account.

• NFC: Near Field Communication ("touch" data transmission from accessories, credit cards, etc... sort of like QR/Streetpass combined) will be built-in.

• Online: Miyamoto: "Network has to have a totally new concept to be different."

  General:

  • Third parties: Several new, previously unconsidered alliances/partnerships with third parties.

  • Communities: You haven't seen the last of them!

  • Retail title downloads: 3DS and Wii U both support digital download of retail titles, but... they still aren't quite sure how to implement it just yet.

  • Item billing: "We should not decline third parties if they want to offer item billing" (paying to unlock content).

  • DLC: Still planning to offer DLC (possibly talking about their own software), but needs more time to complete its feasibility study on the market and its needs.

  • More sharing: "Digital will include user to user communications and sharing" (More social networking integration? More Swapnote-like apps? More emphasis on Streetpass/Spotpass?).

  • Better-paced software + DLC: Nintendo has learnt that it shouldn't have stagnant periods between software launches: can fill the gap, and DLC can extend the life of a title.

  • Asia: Planning products for Asia, local partners (WiiQue U?) yet to be announced; still issues of copyright.

  • This will be Nintendo's worst financial year, but Iwata thinks the company can reach break-even on 3DS hardware in Q3 of this year.

  • Miyamoto still around, Iwata angry at Wired. "Miyamoto is saying his basic work is to create a big hit."

  Nintendo said Nintendo Network will launch March 9th, 2012 for 3DS. Available at launch for Wii-U (Or whatever they're gonna call it.)

Edited January 31, 2012 by Naked Dog

[Xenos]

Nintendo said Nintendo Network will launch March 9th

Wasn't that the release date for Brawl?

Small coincidence, but I find it sort of funny.

[Patticus]

Nintendo have confirmed that the Wii U will not play DVDs, BluRays or GameCube discs but will support Wii games.

Those of you hoping the Wii U would be an entertainment powerhouse are set to be disappointed as Nintendo reveals that DVDs, BluRays and GameCube titles will not be playable on the new system.

This is fine to me, because (1) if you don't own a CD or DVD player of some description by now, then you clearly have bigger problems, and (2) while the lack of GCN support is regrettable, it is not unexpected (indeed, Nintendo never really offers backwards compatibility extending beyond the last generation), and could result in a slew of HD re-releases of GCN classics.

[Marcello]

Haven't we known about it not playing GC games?

And yeah, DVD and BD is disappointing for some, I'm sure, but I have a ton of things I can play DVDs on and I still have my PS3 for BDs, so I'm not bothered.

[Red Cap]

This is fine to me, because (1) if you don't own a CD or DVD player of some description by now, then you clearly have bigger problems

Edited February 1, 2012 by Red Cap-Blue Spikes

[Tornado]

Nintendo have confirmed that the Wii U will not play DVDs, BluRays or GameCube discs but will support Wii games.

Those of you hoping the Wii U would be an entertainment powerhouse are set to be disappointed as Nintendo reveals that DVDs, BluRays and GameCube titles will not be playable on the new system.

The price Nintendo is going to able to get away with charging for this thing is dropping like a stone. What a joke.

and could result in a slew of HD re-releases of GCN classics.

That's awfully optimistic considering, you know, Nintendo has spent this entire generation charging for straight ROMs that are so unoptimized that some of them still run at PAL refresh rates. For "authenticity."

I also find it impossible to look at the positive side when there is literally no interpretation for that idea other than "Nintendo intentionally removed Gamecube support so they can charge you piecemeal;" which is apparently a blight against God when people think Sony might have done it but the coolest thing ever when Nintendo has pretty blatantly done it.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Celestia

[Patticus]

The price Nintendo is going to able to get away with charging for this thing is dropping like a stone. What a joke.

DVD and CD players are ubiquitous nowadays, they're not the "killer app" they once were because, well, we all have them. Anyone who wants GCN games already has a Wii or GCN, and anyone who wants CD/DVD playing capabilities already has those capabilities in their media set-up too.

That's awfully optimistic considering, you know, Nintendo has spent this entire generation charging for straight ROMs that are so unoptimized that some of them still run at PAL refresh rates.

We did get Metroid Prime Trilogy, Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition etc. I don't think we should get our hopes up too much, but an HD re-release of Wind Waker, considering the fan-base which Toon Link has built up on the DS, really should be a given. I mean, it's not by any means a certainty, but it should happen, and it'd help tide us over until Zelda WiiU.

It and similar games would be entirely welcome on the WiiU.

I also find it impossible to look at the positive side when there is literally no interpretation for that news other than "Nintendo intentionally removed Gamecube support so they can charge you piecemeal;" which is apparently a blight against God when people think Sony might have done it but the coolest thing ever when Nintendo does it on purpose.

It's not cool at all, but this is what Nintendo has done for over the past decade, we expect it from them. Anyway there's only a couple of GCN games, maybe not even that, which I love that haven't been ported to the Wii yet, so it's hardly a humongous loss to me.

[Tornado]

DVD and CD players are ubiquitous nowadays, they're not the "killer app" they once were because, well, we all have them.

Which of course means that said base functionality shouldn't be there even though Nintendo has to intentionally turn it off. Even when it has been clear for the past ten years that multimedia functionality has increasingly been a defacto requirement for home consoles to justify their high costs, to the extent that the Netflix existed on the Wii purely because Netflix wanted it there rather than Nintendo giving a shit. Even when Sony and (to a slightly lesser extent) Microsoft have built their (almost certainly to be far cheaper when the Wii U actually comes out) systems around the concept.

Even with all of those things, it of course is justified for Nintendo to purposely disallow movie playback on a system that has all of the necessary hardware to do it; because apparently they are doing you a favor of some kind by not competing on features against the other two systems and charging you more for the pleasure.

Anyone who wants GCN games already has a Wii or GCN

By that logic, Virtual Console wouldn't exist.

It's not cool at all, but this is what Nintendo has done for over the past decade, we expect it from them.

And yet, for the millionth time, if we are to believe that Nintendo is going to be serious about competing with the other two this time, it would be in their best interests to not pull their typical "Fuck you, we're Nintendo. We do what we want" shit that they have pulled since the N64.

Nintendo have also been obstinate morons when it comes to online play for the past 10 years, and it appears that they are probably going to reverse that decision now. So why should any of the other typical Nintendo double standards exist this time after this supposed "fresh start" just because we've come to expect them to exist?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Celestia

[Patticus]

Wah, it won't let me play games from two generations back, I might have to keep a hold of my Wii.

Bunch of miserable, demanding bastards. No wonder Nintendo took a break and went with the casuals for a while. They're much less entitled.

[Tornado]

Wah, it won't let me play games from two generations back, I might have to keep a hold of my Wii.

Bunch of miserable, demanding bastards. No wonder Nintendo took a break and went with the casuals for a while. They're much less entitled.

Don't take your toys out if you are just going to throw them. It doesn't seem too fucking demanding to want the system that has the hardware to play DVDs and Blu Rays to allow movie playback using those formats. It doesn't seem too fucking demanding to want Nintendo to actually adapt their console towards what the other two have found to be the best for consumers rather than just do whatever the fuck they want because they can get away with it because they are Nintendo. It doesn't seem too fucking demanding to want the system that inherently has the ability to play Gamecube games to have the ability to play them rather than having the "privilege" of paying for them again one at a time (especially not after 5 years of listening to bullshit, generally from Wii owners, about how Sony is an evil company for stripping BC so they can supposedly charge for the games again).

I'm also getting fairly sick of the strawman arguments you resort to whenever you get involved in a debate like this, because it is starting to seem to me that it is a waste of time to try to discuss anything with you. I've detailed, several god-damned times, why I've had every problem I've had with the Wii U since it was announced. I've detailed, several god-damned times, why I want Nintendo to not repeat their typical level of arrogance. I also detailed, several god-damned times, why Nintendo's arrogance has been their undoing in the past; and even detailed (yes, several god-damned times) why the success with the Wii won't make much difference this time.

And you have the balls to sit there and tell me that I'm simply being entitled? Far be it from me to assume things, but I wasn't aware that Nintendo was giving the fucking thing away. In fact, there are still rumours that the thing might cost as much as the PS3 did at launch; so perhaps wanting it to at least be able to match the 6 year old console (that now costs less than half that) in fuctionality when it is perfectly capable of doing so isn't so much "entitled" as "not wanting to burn money."

Edited February 1, 2012 by Celestia

[speedfreak]

Don't care that it doesn't play DVD's/CD's. I never use any my consoles that can do that for that anyway. I didn't expect it to play GCN games but I won't be downloading any off a virtual service unless they HD them up or add something. My Wii/GCN work just fine if I feel the need to play a GCN game.

Having said that as of right now I'm not very interested in a WiiU. The controller stuff they showed off with Battle/Chase Mii I didn't find very interesting and I don't care about a bunch of late third party ports of games I can already play on my PS3. If they don't launch with some killer 1st party support I'll be just fine waiting to pick the system up sometime down the road. I learned a valuable less with the 3DS.

[Patticus]

Celestia, yes, you've detailed what you think is wrong with the WiiU, and yes you do sound entitled. Actually, gamers in general are a fucking entitled lot.

• Why does the WiiU need DVD/CD playability?

  Do you not have any other way to play those formats? Just use those. Problem solved. But the ability to play them is just a bit of firmware, and if they left it in, they'd have to pay licensing fees to the DVD and CD Forums. For a feature that people already have several times over in their homes. For formats that are slowly dying or are already dead.

• Why does Nintendo need to approach the market in just the same way as Sony and MS?

  Who says that either of those companies' ways are really what's best for consumers? Do you really think that either of those companies has hit the proverbial "sweet spot"? Of course they haven't! People are constantly bitching about this thing Sony has or hasn't done or that thing MS screwed up with. Neither company's offerings are anywhere near perfect, and while Nintendo's will be much improved over its last attempt, it won't even manage to be as good as Sony or MS in all likelihood.

• As for the GCN playing thing:

  Considering that the GCN discs were mini-DVDs, I'd imagine getting a slot-loader to support both full DVDs and mini-DVDs on top of its proprietary disc format (with a capacity of up to 25GB) would be quite expensive. IIRC, a lot of the cost of the Wii was its disc drive - you know, the one that played both Wii and GCN discs. Plus, knowing Nintendo, they haven't/won't bother working out Memory Card emulation. Additionally, where you would connect additional (non-tablet) controllers for multiplayer games? That would be quite a fundamental flaw.

  And there is a difference between Sony and Nintendo on the backwards-compatibility front; Sony included PS2 BC in the beginning, then removed it. Nintendo hasn't even said that GCN BC would be included, they didn't give us something then take it out later on.

We all know about Nintendo's arrogance being its undoing in the past, and we all expect it to topple them in the future. It's not nice, but when you look at the industry they're in, they're hardly alone there. Not that that excuses it, but it must be hard to be "the nice guy" in such a cut-throat business, and when you're on the top of that business you must really feel like the king of the castle. I can understand where the arrogance comes from.

The Wii's success makes a difference too; it has refilled the company's war chest and ensured its continued survivability for at least the next decade, even if everything they put out in that time sells nothing. So, from Nintendo's perspective, the Wii has been the equivalent of those shield re-charger things you see in F-Zero games.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Patticus

[Tornado]

Why does the WiiU need DVD/CD playability?

No. That's not the question at all.

The question is, why is that hardware that has that capability not being able to use it a good thing for the people who buy it? Because until you can answer that question, this "entitled" bullshit is exactly that. It is hardly entitlement to want to use the hardware you have in the way it can be used but be denied because the company that sold it to you doesn't want you to; nevermind when the company will turn around and flaunt that functionality in your face for an additional cost.

Why does Nintendo need to approach the market in just the same way as Sony and MS?

See: Gamecube; Nintendo 64.

Especially the former, which shows exactly why fucking around and half-assing everything because you don't want to do it the same way as your competitors do blows up in your face.

Who says that either of those companies' ways are really what's best for consumers?

No one. Who says that gives Nintendo the carte blanche ability to not even bother, to the extent that people who point that out are labeled as "entitled" for something they have to pay more for to get less?

Considering that the GCN discs were mini-DVDs, I'd imagine getting a slot-loader to support both full DVDs and mini-DVDs on top of its proprietary disc format (with a capacity of up to 25GB) would be quite expensive.

Pennies. Literally. The reason slot loaders don't normally accept Mini-DVD/Mini-CD is because of the larger size of the drive necessitated by the mechanism that grabs the 80mm disc precludes their ability to fit in laptop drive slots (and slot loaders on desktops is such a novelty that they don't bother with it). The PS3 has also had a Blu-Ray drive like the Wii U will that has done the same thing since launch.

And if the whole dollar Nintendo would have to spend would just break the bank:

Those have existed since the late 1980s. My uncle used them on his second-generation iMac all the time, because as a music buff and professional videographer (well, amatuer professional) he had MiniDVDs and CD Singles all over the place.

Plus, knowing Nintendo, they haven't/won't bother working out Memory Card emulation. Additionally, where you would connect additional (non-tablet) controllers for multiplayer games? That would be quite a fundamental flaw.

If only there were 4 ports on the system that could be used for such a thing. And imagine if there was an adapter that Nintendo could charge for if people wanted to transfer their memory cards.

Of course, Nintendo would never think of doing something that Sony did word for word in 2006.

And there is a difference between Sony and Nintendo on the backwards-compatibility front

The difference being that the PS3 needed extra hardware to do it (and therefore substantial additional expense, to the tune of $30-40 per unit as I recall on a console they were already losing $200 a pop on), and the Wii U by design would not; so cool beans if Sony felt the need to remove it to keep from going out of business, but that has nothing to do with the Wii U having that functionality built-in but only allowing you to use it on a per-game basis.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Celestia

[Dobkeratops]

And there is a difference between Sony and Nintendo on the backwards-compatibility front; Sony included PS2 BC in the beginning, then removed it. Nintendo hasn't even said that GCN BC would be included, they didn't give us something then take it out later on.

Technically incorrect. Sony just stopped producing PS3s with PS2 hardware. It wasn't removed, and all backwards compat systems out there keep the functionality.

Meanwhile and given that having a direct PS2 emulator is impossible, as evidenced by the requirements and performance of PCSX2 they've been reworking behind the scenes a lot of PS2 ISOs so they can actually run on the PS3. Obviously with the intention to sell them at ten bux a piece but a commendable effort nonetheless that bodes well for future endeavors.

Other than that I'm not gonna get into heated discussions. But I do agree the double standard is prevalent the most in Nintendo fans, and comes to light with the radical attitude changes on several subjects during this generational leap. What used to be heralded as innovative is now recognized as inappropiate, though half of it was straight up incompetence. What used to be a system wars bullet point is now unnecessary. Happens all the time, though.

Nintendo's not making amazing and magical strides, they're just catching up on a few (of many) features they're behind. So when people see that not only they aren't at parity yet with other manufacturers but also happen to drop the ball a bit along the way with regards to stuff they had right, well.

[Patticus]

No. That's not the question at all.

The question is, why is that hardware that has that capability not being able to use it a good thing for the people who buy it? Because until you can answer that question, this "entitled" bullshit is exactly that. It is hardly entitlement to want to use the hardware you have in the way it can be used but be denied because the company that sold it to you doesn't want you to; nevermind when the company will turn around and flaunt that functionality in your face for an additional cost.

The hardware can be used for any number of things, piracy included. But Nintendo, quite naturally, would rather prefer it if you used the console for its intended purpose.

No one. Who says that gives Nintendo the carte blanche ability to not even bother, to the extent that people who point that out are labeled as "entitled" for something they have to pay more for to get less?

Each company takes its own road, including or excluding features based on what it wants its machine to do, which is influenced by the audiences it's playing for. Nintendo has never yet gone for the media-loving audience that Sony and MS are competing for. It is under no obligation to do so, and going for them would necessitate more features, a higher price tag and less chance of success with the Wii Fit-loving crowd it has had so much success with to date.

You feel entitled to get a media machine from Nintendo, and Nintendo has no intention of delivering you one. You're paying more because it's a new machine with technologies fresh out of the oven of R&D, and you think that you're getting less because you instinctively expect more (thanks to Sony and MS' media-centric approaches) from a company that has never given you a reason to expect it.

Pennies. Literally. The reason slot loaders don't normally accept Mini-DVD/Mini-CD is because of the larger size of the drive necessitated by the mechanism that grabs the 80mm disc precludes their ability to fit in laptop drive slots (and slot loaders on desktops is such a novelty that they don't bother with it). The PS3 has also had a Blu-Ray drive like the Wii U will that has done the same thing since launch.

All right, it might not cost much of anything, but maintaining GCN support only means something to dedicated Nintendo fans, who are the only people this affects, and who are neither vocal nor numerous enough to force a change in Nintendo's thinking at this (or any) stage of the platform's development.

If only there were 4 ports on the system that could be used for such a thing. And imagine if there was an adapter that Nintendo could charge for if people wanted to transfer their memory cards.

Of course, Nintendo would never think of doing something that Sony did word for word in 2006.

Well, given that they probably haven't bothered doing it, adding extra ports and whatnot would be a needless waste of time from their point of view, necessitating a redesign of the shell and part of the innards of the product for what they see as a tiny (albeit dedicated) minority of their fan-base... who would probably pay good money for HD downloadable ports of GCN classics anyhow.

We might hope that they release a peripheral with a disc that allows memory card data to be accessed and even GCN games to be played, but there'd have to be a clear demand there, sufficient enough to warrant its development. I don't think there is.

[Nintendoga]

I get what both of you guys are saying,

No the Wii-U does not need DVD suuport to be sucessful, however an 8th generation console not playing DVDs where as a 6th generation console could, might put some people off and think of the Wii-U as underpowered when referring to even the 360 or PS3 of this generation (Of course I'm referring to casuals/people who are on the fence about buying a Wii-U or saving up for the next Sony system.)

It still would've been a nice feature to have, but Nintendo's slogan of "It's a game console, that's all it should do." is bullshit. If we were to go by that logic, then the 3DS shouldn't be able to have Netflix, or watch videos, or the PS3 shouldn't have blu-ray because "It's a game console." It wouldn't have cost anything, and really should have been implemented in to attract more consumers.

Believe it or not, I know a healthy amount of people who use thier 360/PS3/modded Wii to watch DVDs, as having a DVD player is a waste of space to them as it seems.

As for GCN support, going by the defenition that it should have backwards compatibilty, The Wii-U is backwards compatable with Wii games, you know the console that is the predessor to the Wii-U? The Wii and GCN did the same thing, so I don't understand why it's a big issue to not have compatability with a console that came out 11 years ago. Besides, I'd much rather have HD Gamecube games that I could possibly play on my Wii-U controller instead of SD gamecube games I can only play on an SD television or else it would look blurry.

If it's that big of a problem, keep your Wii/GCN while you also get a Wii-U(and if you still have GCN, why are you complaining?). Obviously it's not gonna happen now, but I wish we could insert GCN saves via SD card into the Wii-U, so we wouldn't have to redo all the games all over again.

All in all, I have small problems with Nintendo's plans and what not, but they usually work out in the end. I just wish they would get a little more serious when it comes to these types of things, but oh well.

[Tornado]

The hardware can be used for any number of things, piracy included.

Not sure if serious.

Each company takes its own road, including or excluding features based on what it wants its machine to do, which is influenced by the audiences it's playing for. Nintendo has never yet gone for the media-loving audience that Sony and MS are competing for.

And yet it was Nintendo who were the ones that said the gloves were coming off this generation.

It is under no obligation to do so, and going for them would necessitate more features, a higher price tag and less chance of success with the Wii Fit-loving crowd it has had so much success with to date.

You see, you are still operating under the idea that Nintendo would have to add cost to the system to make it multimedia friendly. The mere act of being a console made in the past 10 years makes it multimedia friendly because everything in consoles for the past ten years have been repurposed computer components that already have the functionality.

This is even shown in the Wii of all things, which needs about 10 minutes of effort to turn it from laughably restricted in comparison two the other two into a cheap media center that can nearly match the 360 outside of no HD support.

All right, it might not cost much of anything, but maintaining GCN support only means something to dedicated Nintendo fans, who are the only people this affects, and who are neither vocal nor numerous enough to force a change in Nintendo's thinking at this (or any) stage of the platform's development.

Nintendo not caring beyond how much their pockets are lined hasn't been news since 2001. The policies they implemented with the Wii when they realized they could get away with them should have made that abundantly clear even if the Gamecube did not.

Well, given that they probably haven't bothered doing it, adding extra ports

The Wii U already has 4 USB ports.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Celestia

[Autosaver]

No DVD playback = no royalties to MPEG LA = more profit.

A lot of people have moved onto streaming services like Hulu and Netflix. I still don't see the big deal over DVD/Blu-Ray support. 99.9% of the movies I watch are digital, not physical.

[Patticus]

And yet it was Nintendo who were the ones that said the gloves were coming off this generation.

Yes, but this being Nintendo, so in all likelihood that meant luring in the biggest developers and publishers to make their games (see: Aliens: Colonial Marines, Darksiders 2 and Metro: Last Light) available for Wii U users, and developing an online platform which could in theory be said to be as good as Xbox Live (circa 2006, most likely).

Multimedia wasn't implied.

You see, you are still operating under the idea that Nintendo would have to add cost to the system to make it multimedia friendly. The mere act of being a console made in the past 10 years makes it multimedia friendly because everything in consoles for the past ten years have been repurposed computer components that already have the functionality.

This is even shown in the Wii of all things, which needs about 10 minutes of effort to turn it from laughably restricted in comparison two the other two into a cheap media center that can nearly match the 360 outside of no HD support.

Even if cost is not a factor, I just don't think that Nintendo's executives want to be in the business of putting out media hubs into a market saturated to overflowing with them already. Nintendo is a game maker first and foremost, and they probably don't believe that their consoles necessarily have to be multimedia-friendly because their business doesn't extend into that realm, whereas Sony and Microsoft have their fingers in many more pies than just games and so it is more in their interest to encourage multimedia approaches. If the market Nintendo is most successful with becomes more intent on owning media machines, Nintendo still won't change course unless its business is directly threatened.

So yeah this attitude of "games only" will probably be part of the reason for their next downfall.

The Wii U already has 4 USB ports.

I thought you meant adding four GCN ports to the Wii U itself like they did with the Wii. Yeah, a USB-powered multi-tap-esque device would be eminently doable, but as I say it's a matter of Nintendo seeing a demand and meeting it. GCN owners were in the minority even in that console's heyday, and I just don't think they're going to be able to shout loudly enough for Nintendo to bother making that adaptor.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Patticus

[Nitwit_Speed]

The Wii U not having DVD support doesn't mean it can't be a strong multimedia device. There are rumors floating about that Nintendo has approached people about porting iOS apps over to the Wii U. eBooks where specifically mentioned in another. We already have Hulu and Netflix on the 3DS, and if you hit menu at the upper left hand corner of the eShop and use the search feature, you'll find a few interesting game genres, like News and Communication (the former being empty and the latter being Swapnote and... Pokedex 3D?). EA has specifically said that they are extremely happy with the Wii U's online infrastructure, which is most likely a result of a possible Origin shop on the Wii U.

At that Nintendo investor meeting, they mentioned that Swapnote-esque apps will continue to be made. I think Nintendo is really embracing going beyond games this generation, even if it means dragging weird limmitations in with it.