So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[DaBatGuy]

how is this fast platforming?

He not saying that the stage doesn't have slow sections. The point is that stages in the classics were designed so that with the right skill, momentum and timing you can navigate or completely avoid the slower platforming bits unlike Colors' abuse of blocks and square platforms in some areas.

[speedduelist]

He not saying that the stage doesn't have slow sections. The point is that stages in the classics were designed so that with the right skill, momentum and timing you can navigate or completely avoid the slower platforming bits unlike Colors' abuse of blocks and square platforms in some areas.

He never said that, he said that angel island was fast platforming.

but any ways, Colors provides enough Platforming Skills :

[SilentDoom]

He never said that, he said that angel island was fast platforming.

but any ways, Colors provides enough Platforming Skills :

Do you have to spam videos every post just to get a point across? It's starting to get really annoying >_>

[Indigo Rush]

Speedduelist, please please stop putting videos in every single one of your posts. This is actually slowing my computer down, and besides, you shouldn't have to put a visual aid to get your point across. Seriously, this is getting aggressively annoying. Jeez!

this video isnt relevant but please watch and respond to see why i think colors better than unleashed.

(Yeah, it's kinda like that.)

As for the Colors vs Unleashed debate, I'm not sure what the issue is here. Are we trying to figure out if intricate platforming with limited-control speed sections is better than boost-boost-boost with God of War on the side? It's all a matter of opinions at this point. I mean, yeah, this is a forum so go ahead and debate, I don't care and won't try to say it's wrong, but try looking at the scope of the argument.

Unless I missed the point of the discussion. Come on, people, I'm not reading 5 pages of paragraphs just to catch up. My mornings aren't as free as you think.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Indigo Rush

[ChikaBoing]

I don't know what the hell Sonic Team was thinkinng by padding the game with Medals. First it made the Werehog Stage twice as long, resulting an unbalanced ratio between Daytime and Nighttime. Second looking for them in the Daytime Stages is aggravating and the stages were simply not designed for exploring making it an unplayble mess. And Third the game doesn't even give you a proper explonation on how the Sun and Moon Medal system works.I was half-way through the game before I found what the gauge at the upper right at the status screen means. And what the number at the Level-Portals resemble, I thougt it was the number on describing which act it is.

[JezMM]

I love that Sonic 4% video and have no idea why. I don't understand it at all yet feel compelled to watch it far more often than I should. It's just something about Eggman's walking up the stairs at the start. There's something almost... enticingly nightmare-ish about it.

Oh right. On-topic: Unleashed is better than Colours lololol.

EDIT: Oh actually I do have a random little thought to add. I wonder if people would have liked or hated Unleashed more if every stage was like Eggmanland (or at least more were) were you switch back and forth, rather than being forced to play each style for a good 10-20 minutes at a time.

I agree the Werehog should have had shorter levels... Almost every stage in Unleashed 360 has one bit which could be clipped out because it just feels like filler.

Though I also agree the secret stages could have been incorporated into the story to equal it out a bit more.

Edited November 24, 2010 by JezMM

[ChikaBoing]

I think you should have gotten medals in the Daytime Levels based on how well you beat level(ranks). It would gave the whole Trial&Error Aspect a bit more substance.

Edited November 24, 2010 by ChikaBoing

[Carbo]

EDIT: Oh actually I do have a random little thought to add. I wonder if people would have liked or hated Unleashed more if every stage was like Eggmanland (or at least more were) were you switch back and forth, rather than being forced to play each style for a good 10-20 minutes at a time.

That'd be even worse. It'd break the flow of the game completely. It's part of what made Sonic 06's stages so contrasting and tedious, because it had to mix the sort of good parts with things that needed much improvement.

It works for Eggmanland cause its a huge stage, a very tedious stage if you're doing the Hot Dog missions and a stage that still relies on Werehog more often than daytime, but it still works for that one thing alone. Unless they make evey stage a 30 minute romp through like that, its not going to work out that well, and its not a design choice thats very appealing for someone who just wants to jump into the action. It'd also tarnish the fun for people who just wants to experience that one aspect of gameplay that works. At least splitting the daytime and night time stages in Unleashed yielded the daytime stages standalone and it was a good way to at least have that available at any time, because that way I could ignore the entire gameplay segregation and stay playing the parts I liked about it.

What the Werehog needed was a less sluggish system and more intriguing design that would make replays fun. Before anything like cross-levels are considered, the first thing they should focus on is actually make it good.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Carbo

[DaBatGuy]

I think you should have gotten medals based on how well you beat level(ranks). It would gave the whole Trial&Error Aspect a bit more substance.

This

If there's one thing I loved about SU Wii(and SRA) it was the fact that progression was determined on how good you got at the game not searching non-exploration based stages for McGuffins.

[Buntar0]

I think you should have gotten medals in the Daytime Levels based on how well you beat level(ranks). It would gave the whole Trial&Error Aspect a bit more substance.

[Voyant]

Sonic does his best when Sonic is short, sweet, and to the point. For us, Sonic Colors is a lot easier to play, but a regular guy picking up colors isnt going to get it through quickly. The point of Sonic is to be very easy to pick up and play, but hard to master and offer an intense amount of replay value. Colors does this wonderfully...unlike the past guys aside from unleashed since SA2, I got a game that ima be going back to play for a long time.

And to me thats wat Sonic is all about. Collecting those red rings to give even MORE lvls to play is a great way to increase the game time...seriouly 20 hours in a Sonic game is amazing. Colors just has so much superior content to his other 3D games and all of this was done WITH no alterative gameplay...and goes to show you that is really is not fucking needed...nor wanted by a LARGE majority of people.

[ChikaBoing]

That's why Colours and Heroes are the best 3d Sonic games.

[DistantJ]

I'm gonna have to agree with the "speedduelist, stop posting videos and repeating yourself" crowd. You've clearly not understood what I was saying anyway, if you can't see the difference between the sections you've been showing us and the poor platforming in Colours then there's no point trying to prove anything, and I think the things you've said about Unleashed after never having played it prove that these things can't be judged just by watching videos anyway. We've all played these games, we don't need to be reminded of what they're like.

Yeah, alternative gameplay sucks, and I'm glad it appears to be gone from the series now. Jez, I wouldn't have liked switching between Sonic and the Werehog mid-level, unless it was an instant transition, no load time etc., and the brawling wasn't long winded and it was faster... But I dunno, it'd have probably still felt wrong. I get annoyed enough having to turn into the frenzy wisp monster to get through some areas, let alone the Werehog, heh.

When I defend Unleashed, I'm defending it when held against Sonic Adventure 2, one people often use as an example of the best 3D Sonic, but the Werehog is no more or less inappropriate than the emerald hunting and mechs. That doesn't make it okay though.

What I am trying to say is that having the stupid crap (alternate gameplay etc.) removed doesn't mean it's better for me - because I find the Sonic levels in Colours to just not be as consistent or exciting. Ideally I'd want more colourful versions of Unleashed daytime stages, with a lot more platforming in them, but for ME, this one is mostly poor, unsuited platforming with artificial challenge, separated by speed parts which are too automated to feel like your'e achieving anything. That's pretty much all it is. Sure, it doesn't have the crap stuff from Unleashed, SA & SA2, but for me it doesn't have as much of the stuff which made those games great either.

I did find parts really addictive though, so I can't help but think I might enjoy the game a lot more if it comes out on HD consoles and I can use a controller I'm more familiar with.

[Voyant]

That's why Colours and Heroes are the best 3d Sonic games.

[DistantJ]

I think you got stuck in a submit loop there, Voyant, your post repeats itself 3 times.

Looking objectively, Colours is probably the better game, yes, but it is about how much fun you have, and for me I have more fun in the daytime levels of Unleashed than I do in Colours, so I dunno... I mean if you shoved an alternative play style into Colours between the Sonic levels, I'd hate the thing, the Sonic levels wouldn't have been strong enough for me to forgive it, like they were in SA2 and Unleashed. In my eyes, 'it doesn't have the Werehog or any other annoying crap between levels' isn't a good enough excuse to forgive the really poor level layouts, but that's just me.

I'm still really glad they're doing Sonic 'right' though, ya know? Giving him fast platformy levels and not shoving random crap in there. I'm looking forward to what the Unleashed do with Iizuka's 'fixed' version of the franchise, but for now, Unleashed is still the best current 3D Sonic for me.

[ChikaBoing]

i didn't had much of a problem with Heroes, it was less broken than Sa1(even toguh the controls were tighter in the Adventure games) and was overall better put togheter than SA1&2. People say that the levels design dragged on, but it's not like 3&K never did later on,but I didn't much of a problem with that. Also the argument that you had to beat the game 4 times, well you don't have to, the Last Story isn't as significant to the overall experience than in SA1&2.

The Controls were on-par with Unleashed IMO, so it takes a bit to get the hang of it. On a side-note I find the gamecube version a bit easier to play in 50hz,when I got a better TV that supported 60 hz, I found it to be...alot more slippery, I dunno maybe I'm just crazy. Heroes redeemed for me that 2/3 piece of junk Sa2 to me.

And the treasure hunting levels were way too hard for 8 year old at the time. I needed 30 Minutes for Pumpkin Hill....Ugh.

Edited November 24, 2010 by ChikaBoing

[Buntar0]

On a side-note I find the gamecube version a bit easier to play in 50hz,when I got a better TV that supported 60 hz, I found it to be...alot more slippery, I dunno maybe I'm just crazy.

Nah, makes a lot of sense actually. Unless a game is optimized for 50Hz, switching from 50Hz to 60Hz makes the game run 17% faster.

And the treasure hunting levels were way too hard for 8 year old at the time. I needed 30 Minutes for Pumpkin Hill....Ugh.

That brings back memories. 30 minutes of Knuckles rap music.

[Blue Blood]

Colours keeps up a constant standard, whereas the quality of Unleashed fluctuate throughout the game. Basically, "Unleashed day" > "Colours" > "Unleashed night". When Unleashed is good it's absolutely excellent and when it's bad it's rather poor. Colours retains a rather decent quality throughout, never dipping below but never getting any higher either. I think that makes Colours the better game, but Unleashed is definitely the one I prefer.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Blue Blood

[DistantJ]

It's difficult, that, isn't it? Because I agree. Unleashed Day > Colours > Unleashed Night. I guess that would make the two games... Equal? I dunno. But I agree, Colours is somewhere in between the best and worst parts of Unleashed. All I know is I have more fun when I fire up Unleashed than when I play Colours, even on a replay because I know the Werehog levels (they're not THAT bad, imo) are building up to more speed, ya know?

I never really liked the whole 'better vs. personal favourite' thing because it encourages objectivity and I find the whole way in these internet-driven days we're asked to 'accept' a game or movie as being objectively good or bad and that our opinions are separate to this kind of creepy, in a George Orwell kind of way. I mean who is the one who gets to use their personal tastes and opinions to decide for the rest of us what counts as objectively good and bad and things? After all, a professional review is, every time, an opinion in itself, and more often than not reviews themselves are varied across the board.

You could say that, perhaps, Star Trek is a more solid show than Doctor Who, because it's more consistent and generally every episode is about the same level, whilst Doctor Who has amazingly exciting episodes and painfully dull episodes (depending on who you are and what you're into I suppose), episodes which go so far into fantasy and resort to deus ex machina endings and episodes which are written with Shakespeare levels of dignity... But out of those two, I know which one I'd rather follow, and I'm not going to just sit and be told that the former is better simply because it doesn't go up and down, rather sits happily in the middle...

This make sense?

[Blue Blood]

*words*

*agrees with above words*

Really though, by saying that Colours is the better game I'm talking about production values. It delivers more and nothing really ruins it- it's just self-limiting. Unleashed on the other hand is hampered by lame stupid choices yet it's so much better with what it does right. I don't dislike the Werehog gameplay so to say though. It's the fact that it's next to the excellent daytime gameplay and contrasts with it too much.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Blue Blood

[JezMM]

Oh for what it's worth I agree from an objective standpoint, Colours is probably better I GUESS. I'd certainly recommend it over Unleashed.

My arguing was more me trying to win people over in terms of understanding why I prefer Unleashed rather than raising those eyebrows of theirs til they can raise them no more.

[Kuzu]

OH my god. Do we finally agree on something? Praise the great heavens.

[ChikaBoing]

Unleashed delivered on the cutting-edge front. By that I mean it's feel in graphics and sense of speed speed that made me feel like a kid, I didn't get that since Adventure.

[Kuzu]

Unleashed delivered on the cutting-edge front. By that I mean it's feel in graphics and sense of speed speed that made me feel like a kid, I didn't get that since Adventure.

Colors reminded us of the fun platforming the classics had, having to earn your speed, while showing your testing your platforming skills.

We must combine them.

[Ferno]

We must combine them.

Hope you're reading this Sega! :U *looks towards the camera breaking the 4th wall*