So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[ChikaBoing]

If you include all the DLC levels from Unleashed(which were just orginnaly in the game anyway) and all the other Daytime Levels, you'll find out that the game has 36 of them. And Colors has 36 Stages too.So it isn't really DAYTIME LEVELS FROM UNLEASHED BUT THE TRIPLE AMOUNT OF THEM11!!!!.

I find it still a bit saddening that there are only 6 Worlds, the last time we got that few was Sonic 1. It's one of the things that prevents it for being a 9 for me.

[Voyant]

I am not 'making shit up'. I'm recounting my experience with the game. Do you think I wanted to dislike it? I was so excited for this game. I mean ridiculously excited. I couldn't wait. I even sold my copy of Sonic Unleashed a few weeks before it came out so that I wouldn't be bothered by the downgrade in graphics etc., that's how much I wanted to like this one. And I didn't. Do you think I'd make that up? Do you think I'm happy about that? Do you think I'd dwell on a flaw if I didn't think it was absolutely pivotal for me? What exactly has been irrational or illogical? I am GUTTED that I didn't like this game, this is why I have topics such as my 'how HD could help' thread, hoping maybe something could help me enjoy the game like you guys do. All I have done in here is explained why I feel much happier going back to Unleashed, being that that was the meaning of this topic.

Now you have a problem with the way I go about people 'on my side', too? If I think a post is good, I'm gonna tell somebody. That's me being friendly. Usually I don't go into 'high five' mode if somebody recounts a similar experience of the game as me, rather if they make a post which points out what I've been trying to say all along, but does a better job putting it into words than me, or which points out the pointlessness of some of the responses I've received challenging my opinion on the game. I don't need you guys jumping in here trying to tell me I'm a hypocrite for enjoying one game more than another game. Seriously. Do you see me responding to any of the people really happy with Colours trying to tell them things which are wrong with their experience with the game? Only when they've torn my posts apart, trying to 'prove me wrong' - you can't change somebody's mind on an experience they had.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Voyant

[DistantJ]

So far most of the post that AGREE with you...is when you do go into high five mode. I don;t want to here that shit.

Edited November 21, 2010 by DistantJ

[Scar]

Oh come on, can we fucking drop this?

Lets just all move on from this shitfest and just eagerly anticipate Sonic 4 Episode 2 and the Sonic 20th Anniversary game?

Enough arguing seriously, just please drop it already

Edited November 21, 2010 by Scar

[Djawed]

Scar we don't need your kind of posts honestly. Forums are made for discussions if you have a problem with that, i'd say why don't you move on yourself.

All this arguing isn't even bad. It's when people make it look like it is, like you are now what makes things really anoying.

If Distant doesn't like it, feels like a victim in this, he should just stop replying himself. He chooses himself to keep replying and as long he does that, the thread will go on like this and as long nobody offends the other, I don't see anything wrong. Mind you I find peoples opinions on this topic to be pretty interesting.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Jaouad

[DistantJ]

Scar, while you're probably right about it going nowhere, there are threads for talking about eagerly anticipating Episode 2 and the 20th Anniversary game, so...

I'm just trying to work out why people are claiming that I'm 'making shit up'.

[Kuzu]

I wonder how long is this going to go on before it dies down, I mean we've been going on for almost a week now.

[DistantJ]

For as long as people feel the need to accuse me of 'making shit up' and the like.

[Kuzu]

I just can't stand why people won't just accept you don't like the game, I mean its not the end of the world. "OMG He likes Unleashed more than Colors" Its nothing to get into a week long argument about, its fucking game people.

[Djawed]

I wonder how long is this going to go on before it dies down, I mean we've been going on for almost a week now.

I don't think it will die as long SEGA keeps going this road. It has been clear for years how divided this fanbase is. What I think however is that what Distant and JezzM like does appeal to a lot less people than what sonic colors is.

You can see it in reviews, in forums and even around me here in a country where sonic is kind of dead (holland) people are interested in this game because of the reviews it's getting.

Wether they like it or not, the majority is always right. In this case it's a great majority and I think from Sega's point of view it wouldn't make sense if they went back to the rush/unleashed gameplay style.

I'd rather have them use that style for spin off games or whatever.

[JezMM]

Remember guys, we're not arguing about what game is better. The back and forth right now isn't because one of us is saying Unleashed is better and the other is saying Colours is. It's because we're busy trying to convince the other side to appreciate our reasoning in it's entirety.

Actually right now I'm preparing a video directly comparing Unleashed and Colours' gameplay designs (including the important issue of what is "thrilling" and what isn't - as best I can). Hopefully it'll shed some light on at least my arguement.

[DistantJ]

Looking forward to it, Jez!

[Voyant]

Remember guys, we're not arguing about what game is better. The back and forth right now isn't because one of us is saying Unleashed is better and the other is saying Colours is. It's because we're busy trying to convince the other side to appreciate our reasoning in it's entirety.

Actually right now I'm preparing a video directly comparing Unleashed and Colours' gameplay designs (including the important issue of what is "thrilling" and what isn't - as best I can). Hopefully it'll shed some light on at least my argument.

[Djawed]

Sonic games thrill factor usually came from Eye candy automated sequences. It was like that in the classics, it was like that in the adventure games. Sonic colors had enough of that. People seem to point out that starlight carnaval had a lot of sequences where you were basically watching a cutscene. I mean why is that a problem if most of those sequences only required pushing forward in past games? It's the same thing if you ask me.

Thrilling moments because of going too fast that it becomes a trial and error game is not fun in my book. I was never a big fan of sonic unleashed but I always give games the benefit of the doubt untill I end up with a real conclusion. I even S ranked most of the day stages. Even when memorizing a whole stages, being able to feel "the thrills" of going through a stage without dying, I am sorry. I just don't like when most of the stage can be done by simply pressing forward and watch the game do crazy stuff. The more input I have the better.

- The thrilling moments in colors for me come from things like having 0 rings and trying not to get hit untill the next few rings since rings are really scarse in sonic colors. Which is design choice they should never discard.

- Precision platforming where failing could only be your own fault.

- The way the boost has been gimped down. The boost meter empty's much faster and gaining boost does not happen by ring energie. Boosting is actually something you have to tactifully use now instead of throughout a whole stage whenever you can.

- The way the boost isn't so fast anymore that first playthroughs are not a bitch.

- The level design. I don't care when people say the game exists of flat platforming. In my opinion the level design is done by geniusus with full of creativity. A few flaws here and there but no. I was surprised by many things throughout the game. Alternate paths are handled better than even some of the classics.

You could point one thing about unleashed that's better than colors and colors would have a 100 things done better than unleashed in return.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Jaouad

[Sega DogTagz]

Sonic games thrill factor usually came from Eye candy automated sequences. It was like that in the classics, it was like that in the adventure games. Sonic colors had enough of that. People seem to point out that starlight carnaval had a lot of sequences where you were basically watching a cutscene. I mean why is that a problem if most of those sequences only required pushing forward in past games? It's the same thing if you ask me.

I think the franchise as a whole gets too much flack for its transition sequences. Every game does it, who cares if Sonic Team uses theirs to set the mood a bit. It wasn't like Starlight Carnival was indicative of the entire game anyway.

I really agree with your comment about ring scarcity. I really like that the series has gone back to its "1 hit = lose all your rings" mode. The algorithm of ring loss that they have been using for the last chunk of games has really been a crutch. Badniks in Unleashed posed no threat (aside from the ease of boosting through them). Sonic 4 and especially Colors had that fear factor going and the game itself was better for it.

[Saint Nathan]

I'm just trying to work out why people are claiming that I'm 'making shit up'.

[Autosaver]

Colors made me feel that Unleashed was truly a piece of crap.

Colors has a FUN and UNIQUE gimmick.

Colors has challenging moments. I actually died due to enemy attacks several times! Unlike Unleashed where it was all about falling into pits.

The platforming was fun, it wasn't all about boost this time.

There were so many different routes

Getting all the medals had a nice reward.

Coop is VERY fun, especially with a friend.

Voice acting and cutscenes were much better.

Hub worlds were represented better. (Simple..)

The controls were much more simple, it made Sonic a lot more easier to use.

The transitions were better and Sonic is much more tighter. (Drift isn't a slippery mess)

It wasn't a boost fest, boosting WILL NOT give you a good rank anymore.

[Dummy Bear]

That's why people are 'attacking' you. Nobody would care if you just said "I don't like Colors very much, wanted too, but it just didn't seem as good as Unleashed to me"

I'm not 100% sure on this one but I think that was how we got into this mess in the first place.

He probably didn't use the exact words, but it happened. I think.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Slash

[JezMM]

Okay guys. I talk this time rather than use subtitles because there's a lot more to say and I don't want to distract from the footage too much. So apologies if you hate my voice for some reason. D8

The first 5 mins is me covering my own thoughts with examples on 3D and 2D platforming.

The elusive "thrill" factor we were discussing comes after that at 5:37.

If nothing else, I hope seeing on-screen exactly what I enjoy playing may make it a lot easier to understand my logic.

Edited November 22, 2010 by JezMM

[DistantJ]

Sonic games thrill factor usually came from Eye candy automated sequences.

I couldn't disagree more. While there were a few segments which happened by themselves (usually if you start a loop you can't, like, not finish it), the thrill was about keeping up the pace and getting through these awesome intense speed sections without stopping or dying, and it took a lot of work to do so.

You're trying to use games that have the same kind of "grey square platforms" as you say you dislike and apparently helped ruined the game for you. Yet you like Rush and Unleased... even though they have the same thing, but you try and put attention away from that, and start making things up.

I mean, I could point out where you're exaggerating about Colors (and I did, accurately, before even playing the game) just to try and give 'reasons' for why you don't like it.

That's why people are 'attacking' you. Nobody would care if you just said "I don't like Colors very much, wanted too, but it just didn't seem as good as Unleashed to me" and pretty much left it at that. Sure, there would be a few people asking why, just give them a reason without making things up to try and make your point bigger.

1. I did do that, then you guys challenged me to elaborate. Now you're having a go at me for elaborating.

2. This topic is "So now that you have played Sonic Colours, how does it compare to Unleashed?", I put my comparisons between Colours and Unleashed into words.

3. These 'grey square platforms' are 80% of the game in Sonic Colours, and in the other games even when they do use them, they're big enough to land on without slowing to a crawl and sparse enough to make it through them quickly.

4. I AM NOT MAKING THINGS UP!!! Why the hell would I want to make things up about a game I wanted to like so much?! Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you have to keep accusing me of lying and making things up. Hell, I didn't even do that to the Sonic 4 haters - I claimed that their complaints weren't things of importance and that they could still enjoy the game if they got used to them, but I never told them they were lying. This is ridiculous - I'm 25 years old, I have a creative freelance career to worry about, rent to pay, a girlfriend to court, friends to make time for, why on earth would I want to go on a forum to lie and make shit up about a Wii game?

[speedduelist]

Okay guys. I talk this time rather than use subtitles because there's a lot more to say and I don't want to distract from the footage too much. So apologies if you hate my voice for some reason. D8

The first 5 mins is me covering my own thoughts with examples on 3D and 2D platforming.

The elusive "thrill" factor we were discussing comes after that at 5:37.

If nothing else, I hope seeing on-screen exactly what I enjoy playing may make it a lot easier to understand my logic.

Most of those shown in the videos are DLC stages.

and that still proves that unleashed is straight forward and on rails.

I don't see much platforming other than the DLC Stages, and even then I feel slow platforming is much more better, and I miss explorations, all of that leads me to prefers colors more.

their is no thing wrong with 'Rush game play with more reaction and rare platforming' but its still rush and its still on rails and it still doesn't have much platforming and defiantly lacks explorations and the slow platforming from the older titles.

[Djawed]

Same thing for me. I watched that video and while the commentator was telling all these great stuff about unleashed in comparison to colors. Everytime I saw colors I thought to myself: no I actually like this more.

[JezMM]

Being DLC stages doesn't matter, I was using them to prove that 3D platforming works fine and is fun.

The main argument was about the spectacle and thrill, which of course used the main, non-DLC stages as examples. The platforming arguments were more as a bonus supplement to what was already being discussed earlier.

[Djawed]

The thing is Jezzm, spectacle and thrill is cool and all, but when a game is built around 80% of that, that's where I think it becomes a bit lame. Sonic unleashed is a prime example of that and honestly, not only does it suffer from too much of thrilling moments, it brings alot more negative with it.

Sonic colors may not have done the spectacle and thrill moments better than unleashed. But I never really fell in love with sonic games because of that in the first place.

I for one started with sonic 1. Sonic 1 is much more a platformer than it is a speed thrill experience.

I redirect you to stuttering craig's great retro spective: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/video-game-screwattack/707647

Now I never expected sonic colors to reach the quality of any of the classics. I mean everyone can agree that controls wise it falls flat. But what sonic colors does have is the platforming and challenge from sonic 1. As seen in that video, sonic 1 was not about thrill or whatever reason you stated for liking unleashed more than colors. It was a platformer and had thrills here and there between.

I think we just have different tastes. You like the reinvention of sonic's gameplay (rush/unleashed) while I like the roots. Speed was a characteristic you had to earn from skillfull play. Because colors doesn't have the physics, achieving that kind of gameplay is impossible, but it does a lot of other things well.

Honestly this whole discussions did make me realise one thing, and that is that sonic colors did need a lot more inovation. The classics had a lot of creative things done in every stage while colors does feel a bit samey overall. I think that's just the result from the engine.

Edit: Also about that S ranking part at the end. Nobody stops you from speed running. I personally like how exploration is encouraged by the ranking system in colors but I don't see how speed running is all of a sudden less fun.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Jaouad

[DistantJ]

So tell me, if you take away the speed and the flow, and you automate all the cool bits, what does Sonic have over Mario, and other platformers?