So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[EXshad]

Imagine that. Fans want slower Sonic with platforming, they get it in the form of Werehog, they complain. Gotta love the Sonic fanbase.

...but the werehog is NOTHING like classic Sonic. When in the old games did Sonic beat the crap out of multitudes of heartless ripped from Kingdom Hearts? Where did Sonic tip-toe over balance beams and lift doors with his arms and use QTE's to take down bosses, exatly like Devil May Cry/God of War?

Basically, Sonic Unleashed did the opposite of putting the 2 styles together like the classics did: in the day, we got pure, unadulterated speed with minimal platforming. Which I think is fine, for what they were going for in that title, they just shouldn't have made it so freaking cheap with the trial-by-error crap (and some more branching pathways would have been cool too). But at night, we got the supreme rip-off artist that was the werehog, which was supposedly meant to represent platforming, though it plays nothing like a Sonic game should. The only other character that plays any less like Sonic was Big in Adventure 1. So yeah, I think we had a right to complain about that.

Plus, who the hell ever said they wanted Sonic to go slower?

Edited November 23, 2010 by EXshad

[SilentDoom]

This.

Imagine that. Fans want slower Sonic with platforming, they get it in the form of Werehog, they complain. Gotta love the Sonic fanbase.

Yeah, yeah, I know what people will respond to this with: that's different, because Werehog was flawed and poorly executed. But honestly, so was some of the platforming in Colors. Sonic's floaty jump messes up the platforming experience a bit for me. Having said that, although both games have flaws, I think the gameplay in both instances is good overall.

Hardly. The main thing about the Werehog's platforming is that it doesn't offer anything worthwile for doing this precision platforming. All it offers is some stupid puzzle section or a monotonous battle against repetitive enemies. There is no variation to the flow.

What Colours offers in its platforming is variation. After a platforming section, you are usually greeted with a blissful speed section, or a Wisp that will allow you to explore the boundaries of the level further. This as a result made the platforming in Colours more enjoyable in my opinion. It gave the platforming a purpose.

Also, about this whole "floaty jump" thing, I've tested it myself and placed Colours' single jump right beside 3 and Knuckles' jump and found that they land on the ground at the same time. It's really not that difficult to control the arc of Sonic's jump anyway. Get up a bit of speed, then you can do a nice, lengthy, weighty jump. If you overshoot it, there is always the double jump and stomp to help correct you.

[DistantJ]

I expected you to reply with a post about your bunchload of opinions on the game. You missed the entire point I was making, and it has nothing to do with your opinions on this game. But fine, I'll get it over with and play your little opinion game here.

Alright then, what point were you making? Because it sounded to me like you were making arguments I had already responded to multiple times, so I had to go into detail about them more. Yes. I posted my opinions. This is a discussion forum. What did you want me to do, exactly?

You want to know why I prefer Colors over Mario, disregarding the entire level design? Because it goes on the same principle that the Sonic classics did with the same main concept and idea. The idea that speed is not something given to you like it's the game's main design focus and that you HAVE to go fast, but that overcoming obstacles in full control and get rewarded for your efforts the better you do it.

Yes, I know. I got that. But what I have been trying to say is that shouldn't the speed also be something you need to work hard to maintain, rather than just watch happen all by itself?

I feel the need to have full control, not just play a Sonic Rush in 3D. I like exploring, finding hidden paths and things I never came across in the game without letting the game limit me.

But, see... I felt that way about Colours. I felt that I was only in half-control of Colours, I felt no connection with the game. Unleashed doesn't offer the exploration (well, the type you're referring to, with the new routes, hidden secrets etc) at all, no, but until Colours 3D Sonic never had anyway. I'm glad that Colours gave you that, though, it's something I was also pleased was featured in there, though it's never been a priority for me.

Sonic Unleashed? That feels more like a racing game where the more you progress the more the game considers "do it right or die", but you don't see me saying "go play Burnout" and going on everyone like its the end of the world.

I don't think you're understanding me. I'm not saying "If you don't like Unleashed, fuck off and play Mario", but I'm just wondering the likes of - well, it must be a good decade since Sonic actually has had the formula you describe, so I don't quite understand why people who don't like the series when it has another formula have stuck with it, aside from some kind of loyalty to the character/series, when other series' offer the same, ya see what I mean? I'm not saying "go away, Sonic isn't for you" or "you're wrong to like Sonic Colours because you should play Mario if you like that", I just don't understand why the people on here who dislike the Unleashed/Rush style so much have been following the series when it appeared like that was what it had evolved into... Ya get me?

As for the point I've been trying to make? You've been going on like a stuck record for the past week since you started playing this game

I'm going to continue to do so until I stop getting called a liar for having an opinion people don't want to hear.

and its like you just cant stop antagonizing people

How so? I thought people were antagonising me.

about "If you want a platformer play MARIO"

Well, I think I addressed this bit above. This isn't what I have been saying at all. What I have been trying to say is that there are games with better platforming out there than Colours (it's platforming is pretty badly designed, I think so anyway) and Colours' speed sections (the advantage a Sonic game has over those other platformers) seem to have little player involvement, so I don't understand why the people who say it's what they've wanted all along have stuck with this series, that if Sonic is only about platforming, then Colours would fail, in my eyes, becuase its platforming is quite weak, and a lot of people seem to just be happy that it's there, whether it's any good or not.

in every sense, even on your little "video satire"

I make those up as I go along, I hit record and just sort of do them, so I just said what popped into my head. The "satire" in there really was the way the guy gets so over emotional, I just thought it was funny that everybody's treating this game which is, in my opinion, very mediocre, as some kind of second coming, and even getting emotional about it, it just makes me laugh. So I made a video about it. And people like those videos I do so...

What if I don't want to fucking play Mario?

Then you should play Ratchet.

Haha. No, please, don't take that seriously. I'm kidding.

I have nothing against you prefering Unleashed because I can understand why you like it as I myself used to like it probably as much as you do, and I like debating with people to see their standpoint and understand where they come from, but if you have to resort to shit like "GUYS GO PLAY THIS GAME INSTEAD WHY AREN'T YOU DOING THAT" to people that are enjoying the game you don't like

Whoa whoa. Step back a second. Since the game came out I've had people accusing me of lying, people who never even played Unleashed telling me I'm wrong about it and that I'm a hypocrite for liking Unleashed and not Colours, calling me a liar because I didn't feel the same way about elements of Colours that they did, claiming that I, along with a few professional critics, am 'making shit up', and doing this all just to piss you guys off, then proceeding to imply that I'm some kind of n00b who doesn't get it because I like speed in a Sonic game, trying to prove their point by posting video after video of Sonic jumping on little squares. My retort is, basically, if this is what you guys have wanted for all these years, just platforming, no speed, why were you playing Sonic? And why put down a Sonic fan for liking his games fast? You can see in the posts above, particularly by speedduelist, that a lot of people seem to now be saying 'it's not about speed, it's about platforming' and using Marble Zone, a level with next to no speed at all in it, as an example. And I'm just saying: You know what, dude? There are tonnes of games out there which do play like that and do a better job of it than Sonic Colours - if you don't like the increasing focus on speed, perhaps you ought to be playing those instead?

in the words of Galaxy Man, "that's when we're going to start give a shit"

Oh come on, that was completely out of context. He was referring to us having opinions he didn't like, and calling us liars, claiming we made it all up.

Your ongoing "what if's" about Sonic not having speed is grasping at straws so tightly that they just break

No. No, it really isn't. Speed is the whole point in this series. Alex Kidd didn't work because he didn't offer anything which Mario didn't. What did Sonic offer which Mario didn't? Speed. You could say his level designs were more complex than Mario's, sure, but that's not why people bought the mega drive.

Colors has speed when you're playing it flawlessly

Yes but not speed that I feel in full control of, or that I feel is the result of my own actions. I like to think the speed is my doing, not just something the game does every time I manage to jump a few gaps.

Unleashed simply outthwarts, way too more than it should to the point that it seems to set a new standard and figure speed is what you should have available at all times

Sorry I didn't understand this sentence, any way you can re-phrase it?

Those were not speed based, at all, but if you knew your stuff you could get through these with style

To be fair, there was no way of getting through Marble Zone with style. Haha. But yeah, this was the first game in the series, and it evolved. It'd be like if Mario Galaxy 3 made it's levels entirely out of same-sized brown squares, and people defended that because that's how the original game was. These things evolve.

Better yet, play Sonic CD. Because hell, Colors gets more close to that., and that entire game didn't condone max speed unless it needed it

I could not disagree with you more. Sonic CD is my favourite Sonic, and it makes more and better use of speed than any other game in the series. It's not about getting to the end of the level quickly in this one, but it uses speed in other ways. You used the physics and layouts to get him bouncing and running in all the right ways, to keep up the pace. In order to travel in time, you have to run at a high speed without being halted for an extended amount of time, and that took work and skill. Then look at levels like Stardust Speedway, where the platform challenges and alternate routes rely on you reaching a certain speed to reach a certain area etc.

You could also look at Sonic 3 & Knuckles, at the way some of the levels 'chase' you with a moving barrier or whatever else, and your challenge is to keep moving so fast that you stay ahead of it, or sections in Ice Cap, Sandopolis and even Labyrinth where your challenge was to make a jump from an infinite slope as your destination shoots past you at high speed. Even Marble Zone had you outrunning Lava, leaping over spikes etc. to keep from ever slowing down. The most exciting and memorable sections of these games are all centred around the fact that the character is fast.

His name is SONIC. As in supersonic. Fast. It's the whole point. And even if it wasn't to begin with (which it was), it is the point NOW.

Also, don't pull the card of "iconic Sonic levels" because seriously, that's like saying "Supermassive Black Hole" is the most iconic song by Muse but it automatically means that it's the one that matters the most

I think I had very good reasons to use that point. Referring to Marble Zone or Angel Island Act 2 as examples of how to do a Mario level is like using Forsaken Fortress as an example of Zelda. Some people might like that level more than any others but there's no denying it doesn't follow the things which are pivotal to the series.

and no, I did not say anywhere that the classics were slowslowslowFASTFASTFAST

No, but that's what Sonic Colours is. And people here are telling me I'm a hypocrite and a 'liar' for not liking Sonic Colours because it's the same as the classics, and it totally isn't.

Agreed with you both. I went back to Play Spagonia night the other day, and gawd I loved the platforming it had in that one part where you're inside the Big Ben clock tower.

I also loved it when I first played it. When I saw that the intewebz unanimously hated it however, I made this face: D:, and thought: "So I'm never gonna be seeing this type of platforming again?...Not even with Knuckles replacing the Werehog parts?"

I'm willing to bet that if Unleashed had been Sonic and Knuckles 2, people would've liked it alot more.

For me, as soon as I found I could hold the circle ( button to make the platform jumping safer and more responsive, I started to like the Werehog levels, particularly later on in the game. However they did still feel too long for me. They didn't fit either but neither did fishing, emerald hunting, mechs... You get the picture.

...but the werehog is NOTHING like classic Sonic. When in the old games did Sonic beat the crap out of multitudes of heartless ripped from Kingdom Hearts? Where did Sonic tip-toe over balance beams and lift doors with his arms and use QTE's to take down bosses, exatly like Devil May Cry/God of War?

...which was supposedly meant to represent platforming, though it plays nothing like a Sonic game should. The only other character that plays any less like Sonic was Big in Adventure 1. So yeah, I think we had a right to complain about that.

When in the old games did Sonic use wisps to drill into the ground, turn into a laser, eat everything in his path, cling to walls... There's no harm in trying something new. Just that the Werehog destroyed the pacing while the wisps didn't.

Hm, I think the Werehog suits the series moreso than the mechs and emerald hunting did, just because of the platforming challenges and linear nature of the levels really, and I felt that the atmosphere of some of them took me back to the Saturn days a little. If the Werehog levels had been shorter I think I'd have forgiven them altogether. I quite like them, but the game's kinda like the trifle Rachel made on Friends - all good ingredients but nasty when you put them together in one thing, heh.

Edited November 23, 2010 by DistantJ

[Scar]

So somebody didn't like Colours, fucking BAWWW.

Somebody prefers running quickly to attemptiing to platform very quickly OH NO.

Its preference. Just like Person X prefers Sonic 2 to Sonic 3K and Person Y prefers Sonic 3K to Sonic 2.

I've said this before, but there is no point in trying to convince them that they're wrong, because its a preference and that is entirely fucking subjective.

If Sonic was always about speed and speed alone, then I challenge you to run through every single Sonic 2 (your fav classic game) extremely quickly. Aquatic ruin; the 3rd zone will pretty much halt the speed in favour of platforming in order to avoid the water. Casino Night zone has too many bumpers that prevent you from speeding up to Chemical Plant levels. Hill Top Zone is hardly what you'd call break-neck speed. Mystic Cave is even slower. Oil Ocean is as slow as Mystic Cave. Metropolis will shut you down. The unholy trinity will remove any speed that you have built up. Sky Chase is automated and is also really damn slow. Wing fortress is also slow (unless you have a deathwish).

Death Egg didn't even really exist at that point.

Seriously, in Sonic games, speed was a byproduct of being good at the game. If you were bad or new, then you wouldn't be going fast. There was no Insta-speed button and there shouldn't be.

The thing that seperated Sonic from other platformers wasn't his speed. Technically speaking speed isn't at all hard to acheive. What is hard to achieve is the level design which is designed to allow you to blitz through it if you're good enough, whilst providing enough challenge to stop any random newcomer from coming along and blazing through at mach 1. The level design also made optimal use of the -dare I say it- Physics engine, whereby certain shortcuts were only avaiable if you were good enough to time your jumps and spindash's correctly etc.

The sensation of speed can provide a thrill, and Unleashed did deliver, I loved blasting through the stages stupidly quickly. Colours did the platforming very well.

What both failed to do, but could probably pull off if combined, is make levels which are huge and expansive that medium-paced if you're a noob or bad, but once you get a handle, you can fly through it at Unleashed speeds. That would be altogether more satisfying that just being able to go fast from the get-go. Fact is though, Unleashed allowed you to go fast at the press of a button. Yes its satisfying, but because you get boost by collecting rings, its hardly something you've earned. Colours didn't fair much better either to be honest. You had to get through some tricky platforming, but the speed you're rewarded with is so automated, that its no better than Unleashed's insta-speed boost button.

Again though this is open to interpretation.

Both Unleashed and Colours are massively flawed games. They brought new mechanics and styles to the table and have managed to do them justice, but ultimately they can still be improved.

How they go about improving them...only time will tell.

And frankly, Sonic Team should stop listening to the fans. There is too much of a conflict of interest. Just let them do whatever the fuck they think is appropriate (within reason) as long as they do it well.

I just want to be able to enjoy a game without getting bored or frustrated, or without being interrupted by poor programming and glitches.

Also a side note. If you removed the Werehog (and mandatory medal collecting), then you'd be able to Complete Unleashed in about 2 hours. 20 mins of those two hours would be in Eggmanland. No really. Each main (compulsory) level is about 5 mins long. There are 8 levels. That would take a total of 60 mins (lets not forget Eggmanland taking abour 20 mins) the extra hour including deaths due to difficulty and/or frustration. Maybe tack on 15 more minutes for the heinous Tornado levels.

2-3 hours MAX.

You want to know why that is? Because if every level had to be 5 mins long and blazingly fast, then the levels would have to be huge.

In Unleashed Sonic travelled at around 300mph (according to SEGA reps) So if each level were to be 5 mins than they'd have to be 25 miles long. Later stages being even longer than that.

Thats a whole lot of level. Especially considering Mario levels are barely a single mile long. I can only imagine them being able to fit in so many levels. So the game would have to be pretty short in a standard run-through.

Unless they invested in using ALL of the Blu-Rays memory capabilities and actually utilise the 360's install to hard drive feature effectively, I don't see a Sonic game being that long.

But that's by the by.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Scar

[Carbo]

@Distant: Christ you have no idea how grating it is reading essays of multiquote posts responding to the most minor points of it and then going on and responding to my responses and points to those you previously quoted. Would it hurt to summarize your replies a bit? Alot easier on the eyes.

Look, I don't particularly care for people who've been calling you a liar or anything on the account of having your opinion here because moreover I don't want to be those people, and I'd happily debate about these things with you seeing your viewpoint because I love debating, but again the point that I brang up at the very start is the whole part about "gee guys go play Mario because the platforming is better", there is literally nothing constructive in that logic and bringing that up on repeat is annoying as fuck. As for what matters now about Sonic, why do you think there's so many classic fans and people who've been berating about Sonic's downfall for so long? The character's point has little to do with the game's point. Sonic's "trademark feature" has little to do with what made him good. Unleashed's day stages were still heavily love it or hate it in the fandom. Sonic 1 had some overbearance in flaws but in Sonic CD and S3&K? It was heavily balanced all around and finally got it right.

I'm playing through the challenge mode in Colors, and seriously, after having finished the game, it feels as clockwork smooth as CD, which mind you is also my favorite Sonic game of all time. At no point does it feel like the game limits you once you take a steady pace, it feels full in control and the game really doesn't limit the fun things to going fast all the time. If you do go fast though, the game feels much better, but it still breaks up every now and then for some normal platforming which doesn't feel necessarily out of place. I haven't had that sensation since S3&K, literally.

Again, I'm more than happy to take this on a civilized matter and discussing properly about our viewpoints so we can atleast agree to disagree. I liked Unleashed, but with Colors I just don't like it as much as I used to anymore. But if someone attests to the idea that "yes I preffer speed-based over slower and more platforming", I'm completely fine with that logic. Sonic Unleashed atleast does that much proper and well.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Carbo

[DistantJ]

Sorry, Carbo, but if you're going to continue to challenge that point of mine, you're going to have to read my post, because I explain it in there and your post evidences that you just went "tl; dr" and repeated your same argument as before.

Thanks, Scar. Good post again.

If Sonic was always about speed and speed alone

Never said speed ALONE. Just saying when you take it away it's not Sonic. Like if you took away puzzles from Zelda. Not the whole of every Zelda game relies completely on them, else it'd be Professor Layton, but if you took em out? Wouldn't be Zelda without them. For me, Colours is the equivalent of making the puzzles in Zelda solve themselves for you and then sending you to do the rest of it (and somehow not having the rest of it as well designed as the previous games either). That's where my argument comes from.

then I challenge you to run through every single Sonic 2 (your fav classic game) extremely quickly. Aquatic ruin; the 3rd zone will pretty much halt the speed in favour of platforming in order to avoid the water

Yeah. Actually the big buzz kill in Aqua Ruin for me is those grounders waiting behind pillars, bursting out of the walls etc. They're just harsh, lol.

Casino Night zone has too many bumpers that prevent you from speeding up to Chemical Plant levels

Yeah, but again, the speedy stuff is all your own doing, and the stuff in-between is exciting and varied and relates to speed. I mean Sonic couldn't run around the halfpipes and loops, go through the pinball machines etc. if he wasn't an inhumanly fast character. Most of the sections Colours gives you full control over are things which Mario could do (and would probably do better). This is why I didn't like it.

Hill Top Zone is hardly what you'd call break-neck speed

You're right, BUT, what's the big challenge in Hill Top? Out-running lava and crushing ceilings. A nice example of how speed sections require your involvement too, where the loops require you to curl into a ball so that you can smash the blocks underneath them.

Oil Ocean is as slow as Mystic Cave. Metropolis will shut you down.

Both of these have thrilling set-pieces which happen quickly, though, and again, areas a non-fast character couldn't make it through.

Sky Chase is automated and is also really damn slow. Wing fortress is also slow (unless you have a deathwish).

Don't remind me... XD

Seriously, in Sonic games, speed was a byproduct of being good at the game. If you were bad or new, then you wouldn't be going fast.

It's true, but I wouldn't say 'byproduct', it's not some kind of accident. Unleashed is easier to move fast in, sure, but getting through a level super-fast is still a result of being good enough at it to do so, and in the classics, the speed sections still required your input and your reaction times to be up. If you let your guard down you'll be stopped dead.

There was no Insta-speed button and there shouldn't be.

Spin-dash? Super peel-out? Not as easy as the boost meter (I still don't think that thing should have run on rings - or at least it shouldn't have been upgradeable), but still a way to get up to speed with no effort.

What is hard to achieve is the level design which is designed to allow you to blitz through it if you're good enough, whilst providing enough challenge to stop any random newcomer from coming along and blazing through at mach 1.

And there it is. That, right there, is what is missing from Sonic Colours. The speed sections require no skill because they happen by themselves, and the platform sections aren't laid out in a way that they can be done at a good speed if you are good at it. Sonic Colours rewards progressing in the level with speed which you don't have to work to keep going, not doing well at it. Even if you did an awful job at a platform section, dying several times, you'd still get the speed section afterwards and it'd still all happen by itself, bar a few quick-step sections which I found really dull. Ya get me?

And frankly, Sonic Team should stop listening to the fans. There is too much of a conflict of interest. Just let them do whatever the fuck they think is appropriate (within reason) as long as they do it well.

I agree. No use listening to a fanbase who are all so diverse anyway!

Edited November 23, 2010 by DistantJ

[ChikaBoing]

You could add all the extra acts(the DLC ones too,which were previously in the Game anyway) and the missions to the main story of Unleashed and you would have a 5 Hour games without Werehog and medal collecting,so just as long as Colours.

I counted, and both Colors and Unleashed had both 36 Levels.It's just that Unleashed had 9 really Long Levels and then a few dozens of short ones.

Edited November 23, 2010 by ChikaBoing

[Carbo]

Sorry, Carbo, but if you're going to continue to challenge that point of mine, you're going to have to read my post, because I explain it in there and your post evidences that you just went "tl; dr" and repeated your same argument as before.

When it's so damn hard to go through your essays of multiquotes responding to every single line then yes, yes I will go tl;dr on most of what you write. Because I'm not repeating any of my points any more than you are here.

So my apologies on that.

[DistantJ]

Can you not just take 5 minutes to read it? I took the time to write it for you to explain myself. Just the nested quotes on this site are quite big so they spread the thing out. See you guys can't just go claiming these things about me and not reading what I say. Challenging me to explain myself and then when I do, not reading it because it's longer than the previous message you asked me to elaborate on.

Well, here are the bits which related to the thing you don't seem to have cleared up...

I don't think you're understanding me. I'm not saying "If you don't like Unleashed, fuck off and play Mario", but I'm just wondering the likes of - well, it must be a good decade since Sonic actually has had the formula you describe, so I don't quite understand why people who don't like the series when it has another formula have stuck with it, aside from some kind of loyalty to the character/series, when other series' offer the same, ya see what I mean? I'm not saying "go away, Sonic isn't for you" or "you're wrong to like Sonic Colours because you should play Mario if you like that", I just don't understand why the people on here who dislike the Unleashed/Rush style so much have been following the series when it appeared like that was what it had evolved into... Ya get me?

Well, I think I addressed this bit above. This isn't what I have been saying at all. What I have been trying to say is that there are games with better platforming out there than Colours (it's platforming is pretty badly designed, I think so anyway) and Colours' speed sections (the advantage a Sonic game has over those other platformers) seem to have little player involvement, so I don't understand why the people who say it's what they've wanted all along have stuck with this series, that if Sonic is only about platforming, then Colours would fail, in my eyes, becuase its platforming is quite weak, and a lot of people seem to just be happy that it's there, whether it's any good or not.

Whoa whoa. Step back a second. Since the game came out I've had people accusing me of lying, people who never even played Unleashed telling me I'm wrong about it and that I'm a hypocrite for liking Unleashed and not Colours, calling me a liar because I didn't feel the same way about elements of Colours that they did, claiming that I, along with a few professional critics, am 'making shit up', and doing this all just to piss you guys off, then proceeding to imply that I'm some kind of n00b who doesn't get it because I like speed in a Sonic game, trying to prove their point by posting video after video of Sonic jumping on little squares. My retort is, basically, if this is what you guys have wanted for all these years, just platforming, no speed, why were you playing Sonic? And why put down a Sonic fan for liking his games fast? You can see in the posts above, particularly by speedduelist, that a lot of people seem to now be saying 'it's not about speed, it's about platforming' and using Marble Zone, a level with next to no speed at all in it, as an example. And I'm just saying: You know what, dude? There are tonnes of games out there which do play like that and do a better job of it than Sonic Colours - if you don't like the increasing focus on speed, perhaps you ought to be playing those instead?

[Carbo]

I read that shortly after your last post hence the "so my apolgies on that". That argument is alot better, I can deal with what you mean here, but see that could have been summarized in one paragraph instead of responding to all my points, which was exactly why I skimmed through it and missed it in the first place. Its not like I exactly know what you're about to "respond" with here. Especially considering that after the original post I responded to of yours, it literally felt like it reached such a limit of threshold desperation point of repeating the single same analogy you used in every thread without expanding on it enough to feel like you're actually making a point.

The first paragraph is for the most of the part what I could actually see as a proper response because the subjectivity of your experience again, held little to no relevance to what I was talking about.

So yeah. Ceasefire time? Sorry for the unnecessary calamity.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Carbo

[DistantJ]

Thank you. So yeah, if you understand me now? This isn't a discussion about the efficiency of my posts anyway, I have a hard time explaining what I want to say on here so it often ends up long, and it's my only way of defending myself when these people start calling me a liar and things.

...I didn't even hate the game. I liked it. Just didn't love it. Look at how far people have pushed this on me.

[EXshad]

When in the old games did Sonic use wisps to drill into the ground, turn into a laser, eat everything in his path, cling to walls... There's no harm in trying something new. Just that the Werehog destroyed the pacing while the wisps didn't.

Edited November 24, 2010 by EXshad

[DistantJ]

I think it looks like (at least, while speedduelist and that other guy are away) we're all starting to understand each other. So my essays weren't completely in vein!

[Aquaslash]

Will someone please tell me what was EVER wrong with the Mechs? (aside from Tails being in one) The goal was just as straightfoward as Sonic's: get to the goal ring. In fact, I wouldn't expect any other kind of gameplay from the good ol Doctor and his robots.

[EXshad]

I think it looks like (at least, while speedduelist and that other guy are away) we're all starting to understand each other. So my essays weren't completely in vein!

Edited November 23, 2010 by EXshad

[DistantJ]

Yeah, but this topic is "How does Sonic Colours compare to Unleashed?" So I explain why I find Unleashed better.

I wasn't really expecting Unleashed 2 anyway, I just thought the 3D sections would be more interactive and the 2D sections less, well, you know my gripes about the platforming in this one. Hoping that they keep this style of game but get the 3D back to Unleashed style and the platforming more varied and interesting and less about floating bricks.

Will someone please tell me what was EVER wrong with the Mechs? (aside from Tails being in one) The goal was just as straightfoward as Sonic's: get to the goal ring. In fact, I wouldn't expect any other kind of gameplay from the good ol Doctor and his robots.

[Autosaver]

The reason why mechs were hated...

It was boring, go straight and just lock onto everything. There were no alternate paths, no branching paths, no varied attacks, just the same thing every single time. (IIRC) The platforming was slow, and the mechs were overall slow.

[Octarine]

Will someone please tell me what was EVER wrong with the Mechs? (aside from Tails being in one) The goal was just as straightfoward as Sonic's: get to the goal ring. In fact, I wouldn't expect any other kind of gameplay from the good ol Doctor and his robots.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Octarine

[Aquaslash]

Same with the Werehog. Brawling is about as appropriate for the series as lock-on missile firing was, so...

[Sean]

Compared to the speedier, more nimble Gamma, Tails and Robotnik were sluggish and heavy, and steering them was a pain in the ass. Gamma's stages were also designed to keep you moving a lot. SA2 had you always fucking stop.

[Kuzu]

Compared to the speedier, more nimble Gamma, Tails and Robotnik were sluggish and heavy, and steering them was a pain in the ass. Gamma's stages were also designed to keep you moving a lot. SA2 had you always fucking stop.

[Diogenes]

But but, we have one, if not SEVERAL characters whose main gimmick IS brawling o.O

Edited November 24, 2010 by Diogenes

[Kuzu]

I never said it was a good excuse. But this is the Sonic Colors topic.

[DistantJ]

But but, we have one, if not SEVERAL characters whose main gimmick IS brawling o.O

Interesting, so you feel that if you replaced the Werehog with a previously existing character like Knuckles or Bark or whoever else, that you'd have been more accepting of it?

I mean, really the Werehog is the result of the designers wanting to introduce something new without adding in more characters, since back then the big complaint about Sonic seemed to be unnecessary extra characters (it seems after each game, people come up with a new major complaint about all of the previous ones and never mention the important stuff... lol)... An excuse to throw in a completely new play style like they did in SA2, but say "but look, it's still Sonic!", heh.

Anyways, old character or new character (or new form for previous character), it doesn't really matter, it's just about if you enjoy it, and personally I actually did enjoy the Werehog, the same way some people here enjoyed the mechs and emerald hunting in SA2. I just found his levels a tad too long. I find it interesting that people get more annoyed about the Werehog than they did about fishing, emerald hunting, mechs, Amy levels etc., when they're essentially the same issue (and if you look at SA2, they're similarly forced upon you). Perhaps it's because the Sonic Adventure games came to us in a time when we were more forgiving of such things - when 3D gaming was still relatively new so all games were flawed, and when we were younger and more excited about it all and therefore more willing to forgive things and take them as they are, since it was worth it for the good stuff.

I still stand by my position: I like the day stages, I like the Werehog, I just didn't like being made to swap between them, but I don't even have to anymore because I've beat the game; bonus!

[speedduelist]

Compare the number of platforming in colors to the platforming in the classics, you will find them having the same number.

Compare Unleashed platforming to Sonic 3/sonic 1/Sonic CD/Sonic 2, you will find unleashed day light has like 10% platforming in each stage (maybe Except adabat and eggman land, but that is still a linear level design with no explorations at all and no hidden areas like the classics).

that is said, i don't like sonic rush linear level design 'go forward and no explorations',

I like 'slow platforming , hidden areas for explorations' just like the old games, which is why i prefere colors more.

This Really explains why i like Colors :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnSruIR-0co

[watch this video to see why i really like colors more than unleashed then respond]

the 3D portions aren't eye candy cut scenes and they have tons of paths (except star light carnival act 1 3d portions, which isn't as long as any of unleashed day light), they are basically fast and intersting and doesn't play them self.

the 2d sections are slow platforming and their is tons of hidden paths in the game and hidden areas underground/water to explore for or even by using the hover to reach higher areas and collect hidden items. the 2D portions has speed and hidden areas between the slow platforming platforming too.

Point : it plays like the classics but in modern day.

Unleashed plays like Sonic Rush.

Colors plays like Sonic 3&k,Sonic 1 and sonic cd.

Edited November 24, 2010 by speedduelist