So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[Emmett L. Brown]

"Cheesy for all the right reasons"

That's a much better way of putting it. Way to go, Shadic93.

[EXshad]

Who's complaining about the gameplay? I thought Colors gameplay was great; when I said the levels were better in Unleashed, I was referring more to my opinion on the environments the levels took place in (I thought Unleashed's levels were gorgeous), not the gameplay.

But the level design is a main factor of the gameplay. Crappy levels would lead to a crappy game. I mean, Sonic Colors could play even more polished than it already did, yet if every level was as broken as Asteroid Coaster Act 6, the game would be a mess.

Maybe I should have been a bit more clear though. That's my bad. And yeah, I liked Unleashed too, but in a different sort of way. It was very cool running fast and doing all the cool things Sonic did in the cutscenes, looking cool running through massive linear stretches of stage. But that's not the point of this title. Unleashed was it's own game, while Colors is another. The point of Colors was to be, first and foremost, a platformer, highly in the vein of the classic games. And after playing Sonic 3 today, I gotta say, Sonic Colors thus far is definitely the closest main-console game to recreate the Genesis Sonic magic people have been screaming for, be it through the increased emphasis on exploration over high-speed, the intuitive physics, and the branching pathways over the linearity present in Unleashed, even in that one platforming stage. Sure, the platforms were bigger, and the camera was closer to Sonic, but really, that's all that should be implemented in Colors 2, if Sega is smart enough to green-light it.

I just think these Unleashed/Color comparisons are mental, since they both set out to do very different things. Not to mention when I said the reason I liked Unleashed WAS for the high-speed sensation of being Sonic, I was told that Sonic games shouldn't play anything like that. So yeah, I know that the point of the topic IS to make those comparisons, but as a whole, I just don't get it.

And no worries, happens all the time I'm happy to clarify whatever crap I feel the need to spew.

Edited November 23, 2010 by EXshad

[Aquaslash]

What's your version of cringe-worthy? I'm honestly curious.

I would honestly have to backtrack and go through the past scripts to gain multiple examples. The one that's jumping out at me right now is "Even without wings, I can still fly!" though that was entirely because of the pathetic delivery. In fact, probably every line is gonna come down to delivery.

EDIT: Suddenly, I'm reminded of 'This is like taking candy from a baby, and that's fine by me". That one's called trying way too hard.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Kuzu]

I would honestly have to backtrack and go through the past scripts to gain multiple examples. The one that's jumping out at me right now is "Even without wings, I can still fly!" though that was entirely because of the pathetic delivery. In fact, probably every line is gonna come down to delivery.

Ya know, yeah delivery had everything to do with most of the bad lines in the previous games, I mean Roger delivers all of his lines in a way, that can't make me hate it, because of how awesomely delivered it was. I know Griffith improved and all, but there were times when he still had trouble delivering his lines, which made them sound stupid.

Imagine Griffith saying "No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me", and compare it to Smith's it would sound different to me.

[DC111]

But the level design is a main factor of the gameplay. Crappy levels would lead to a crappy game. I mean, Sonic Colors could play even more polished than it already did, yet if every level was as broken as Asteroid Coaster Act 6, the game would be a mess.

Maybe I should have been a bit more clear though. That's my bad. And yeah, I liked Unleashed too, but in a different sort of way. It was very cool running fast and doing all the cool things Sonic did in the cutscenes, looking cool running through massive linear stretches of stage. But that's not the point of this title. Unleashed was it's own game, while Colors is another. The point of Colors was to be, first and foremost, a platformer, highly in the vein of the classic games. And after playing Sonic 3 today, I gotta say, Sonic Colors thus far is definitely the closest main-console game to recreate the Genesis Sonic magic people have been screaming for, be it through the increased emphasis on exploration over high-speed, the intuitive physics, and the branching pathways over the linearity present in Unleashed, even in that one platforming stage. Sure, the platforms were bigger, and the camera was closer to Sonic, but really, that's all that should be implemented in Colors 2, if Sega is smart enough to green-light it.

I just think these Unleashed/Color comparisons are mental, since they both set out to do very different things. Not to mention when I said the reason I liked Unleashed WAS for the high-speed sensation of being Sonic, I was told that Sonic games shouldn't play anything like that. So yeah, I know that the point of the topic IS to make those comparisons, but as a whole, I just don't get it.

And no worries, happens all the time I'm happy to clarify whatever crap I feel the need to spew.

Despite their similarities, they are very, very different games. It's crazy how dynamic the Sonic franchise is, from Shadow the Hedgehog to Sonic Unleashed to Sonic Colors and everything between. And almost every game released is because the fans wanted it. Not saying that's why so many of the games are 'bad' - that's because of the way said games were executed, not necessarily because of what the fans wanted.. (I put 'bad' in quotes because there are actually VERY FEW Sonic games that I think are genuinely bad overall... most Sonic games, including Colors and also including some of the 'bad' ones like ShTH and Black Knight, have some qualities that I like).

Imagine Griffith saying "No copyright law in the universe is going to stop me", and compare it to Smith's it would sound different to me.

I must admit I loved that line. I like Smith a LOT, it's just that I'm not used to him yet, so I still kinda like Griffith for Sonic. Kinda have to break new voice actors in, like breaking in a new shoe.

Edited November 23, 2010 by DC111

[EXshad]

Despite their similarities, they are very, very different games. It's crazy how dynamic the Sonic franchise is, from Shadow the Hedgehog to Sonic Unleashed to Sonic Colors and everything between. And almost every game released is because the fans wanted it. Not saying that's why so many of the games are 'bad' - that's because of the way said games were executed, not necessarily because of what the fans wanted.. (I put 'bad' in quotes because there are actually VERY FEW Sonic games that I think are genuinely bad overall... most Sonic games, including Colors and also including some of the 'bad' ones like ShTH and Black Knight, have some qualities that I like).

Well, honestly, I say take the things the fans are saying to improve the game, rather than revert it back to Unleashed (such as make the platforms bigger, less emphasis on them, closer camera, etc.) and have more polished 3D segments that feature the high-speed found in Unleashed, and perhaps we have a style Sonic Team can stick with for the Wii titles. Since they seem determined to make different types of games to satisfy different parts of the audience, I don't think we can win them all. The franchise is dynamic, but ever since Heroes came out, I don't think it's had a solid footing. They've all been too different, to the point where it's almost a downside. There was no sense of cohesiveness, at least in my opinion. But now it seems like they've found it, by blending the tone, style, and even some of the gameplay elements of Unleashed with that of the platforming which other members of the fan-base have been crying out for. And that, I think, is the genius of Sonic Colors - it goes back to basics, so far that some people almost think it alien (I'm getting sick of saying "no pun intended). Right now, I really just wanna see them polish this style, rather than scrap it, because the only complaint I have about Colors is that they didn't do enough with it.

I love Sonic Adventure, probably more than most people here, it's one of my favorites games in the franchise, as well as my favorite 3D game hands down, but honestly, Colors came close to beating it for me. No other 3D Sonic game, including Adventure 2, came close to doing that for me.

As for the "bad" Sonic games bit... that's subjective. Personally, I thought the downward slope was kicked into high-gear by Shadow, Riders, and 2006, which I felt were all incredibly lazy games with fundamentally messy mechanics and some sloppy presentation. Secret Rings and Unleashed, regardless of some of the design choices however, were irrefutably high-quality games, but not due to the gameplay, but rather the graphics, music, and the like. That's my take on it anyway

Edited November 23, 2010 by EXshad

[Kuzu]

I must admit I loved that line. I like Smith a LOT, it's just that I'm not used to him yet, so I still kinda like Griffith for Sonic. Kinda have to break new voice actors in, like breaking in a new shoe.

See. The script isn't all bad, and filled with corny puns, it has its awesome lines too, you just gotta look.

[DC111]

As for the "bad" Sonic games bit... that's subjective. Personally, I thought the downward slope was kicked into high-gear by Shadow, Riders, and 2006, which I felt were all incredibly lazy games with fundamentally messy mechanics and some sloppy presentation. Secret Rings and Unleashed, regardless of some of the design choices however, were irrefutably high-quality games, but not due to the gameplay, but rather the graphics, music, and the like. That's my take on it anyway

Yup, that's why I put quotes on it, my bad is different than your bad. I loved the POTENTIAL of Sonic 2006, I think it could have been great. Shadow and Riders were okay I think. But Shadow tried too hard to be dark I think.

[Aquaslash]

Personally, I thought the downward slope was kicked into high-gear by Shadow, Riders, and 2006, which I felt were all incredibly lazy games with fundamentally messy mechanics and some sloppy presentation.

>Counting a racing game with platformers

And it's not just you either. EVERYONE DOES THAT. Talk about cringe worthy :|

[EXshad]

>Counting a racing game with platformers

And it's not just you either. EVERYONE DOES THAT. Talk about cringe worthy :|

Ugh.... I was talking about quality in general, not genre. Derp.

Edited November 23, 2010 by EXshad

[Aquaslash]

Ugh.... I was talking about quality in general, not genre. Derp.

Even still, Riders was expressly a spin off title. It just can't be compared to other main series titles. You're better off listing it with the All Stars series or Sonic Shuffle.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Colors topic.

[Voyant]

Simple Solution to all our problems!

Take the best of Unleashed..and the best of Colors...fuse them together..

BAM!

EVERYONE FUCKING HAPPY XD!!!!

***

That's all that need to happen....you like whizzing through levels at breakneck speeds in Unleashed? Sure! Fuck that I want to go exploring and do some platforming...I got RED rings to collect! Awesome! Hey there an Electric Shield here that can help me get to another higher area that I would have no idea how to get to if I didn't stop and look around. Man I better keep my Parkur speed up or I'm going to have to do all that terrible blocky platforming to get to the end of the level D:!

I want to SPEED RUN!

I want TO EXPLORE and JUMP on things and earn my speed!

...see where I'm going with this? You know what was a good example of this actually?

Edited November 23, 2010 by Voyant

[ChikaBoing]

that's all that should be implemented in Colors 2, if Sega is smart enough to green-light it.

I don't want them to do a sequel. I really like the game, but I'm personnaly not too much of fan of the whole style to warrant a sequel.

[DistantJ]

Nice to see a handful of people are still flying off the handle every time they hear something they don't want to hear.

I honestly don't get it. First, people whine and complain that Sonic Unleashed doesn't have enough platforming and was too much of a running fest. When we finally get it.... we need more running because the game is not enough like Unleashed. I'm flabbergasted.

Perhaps because it's different people? That's like saying "The other day I heard an old man complaining about the a painting, then a young woman walked past and said she liked it! WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT?!!!"

I always liked Unleashed's daytime levels from day 1 (and the night time levels were decent too, and outside of repetitive battles consisted almost entirely of platforming in case anybody didn't notice), I've always said "Unleashed + more colour - Werehog = ultimate Sonic game".

And I still don't get it. If people want all platforming and don't want running (in Colours, most of the running is basically cut scenes anyway), why don't they just play Mario?! I'd have forgiven the awful, cheap, laughably basic platform layouts in this game if my 'reward' of getting speed sections wasn't 75% happening all by itself (and if you people start telling me Unleashed was the same, you really do need to go back and play that game again, you just try not pressing anything in a speed section, or even just holding right/forward, and watch the game completely pwn you).

[Carbo]

And I still don't get it. If people want all platforming and don't want running (in Colours, most of the running is basically cut scenes anyway), why don't they just play Mario?!

Would you fucking stop with this association? That's like saying if you want to play Smash Bros Brawl, get your favorite action figures and replicate slapstick fights with acapella sound effects. Sonic is a platformer, and Mario does not hold exclusive platforming rights. Again, Sonic was never about running fast. It was about overcoming design with your skill and the speed was simply a reward for your efforts.

I actually find it funny that you say 75% of the 3D sections that involve speed play themselves when the Unleashed running sections are no less automated than Colors. In fact they're almost moreso "cutscenes" than Colors, Unleashed just has more frequent 3D sections so they can work with things.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Carbo

[speedduelist]

Simple Solution to all our problems!

Take the best of Unleashed..and the best of Colors...fuse them together..

BAM!

EVERYONE FUCKING HAPPY XD!!!!

***

That's all that need to happen....you like whizzing through levels at breakneck speeds in Unleashed? Sure! Fuck that I want to go exploring and do some platforming...I got RED rings to collect! Awesome! Hey there an Electric Shield here that can help me get to another higher area that I would have no idea how to get to if I didn't stop and look around. Man I better keep my Parkur speed up or I'm going to have to do all that terrible blocky platforming to get to the end of the level D:!

I want to SPEED RUN!

I want TO EXPLORE and JUMP on things and earn my speed!

...see where I'm going with this? You know what was a good example of this actually?

Sonic 2 was the only genesis sonic game that was speed based.

Sonic 3 Slow platforming :

Sonic 1 slow platforming :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxj68273OJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZzBJbLl-8k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgNPrm_lpG4&feature=related

even then. Sonic Unleashed plays its self for 1 minute, you can just tap the boost button for 1 minute between either QTES or chasing to go straight forward. and their isn't any multiple paths in unleashed and their isn't much platforming either.

the fact that unleashed is on rails boosting with not much paths and platforming says enough for me.

I like Colors better than unleashed.

Edited November 23, 2010 by speedduelist

[DistantJ]

Speedduelist, you have watched videos of Sonic Unleashed. You have not played it. You have no comparison to make and no justification until you get yourself a PlayStation or Xbox and a copy of the game and get pwned by the sections you think are 'on rails'. Also, you embedded vids of two completely non-iconic Sonic levels. Now, would you care to point out to me which parts of the two videos involve navigating a floaty jump between tiny little squares, and which speed parts you have no control over? And where in Angel Island is the part which is "slow"? It's all happening pretty damn fast if you ask me. As for Marble Zone, are you telling me every Sonic game's levels should be that speed? That was the first game in the series, and it never went that slow again.

Would you stop with this association? (language fixed) That's like saying if you want to play Smash Bros Brawl, get your favorite action figures and replicate slapstick fights with acapella sound effects. Sonic is a platformer, and Mario does not hold exclusive platforming rights.

No. People play the new Medal of Honour and say - why not just get Call of Duty? It has all the advantages but it does a better job of it. The only reason one would pick the new Medal of Honour over it would be some kind of mindless loyalty to the title. If you take away Sonic's speed and give a mediocre platformer, what reason do you have to play it over all of the other, hundred times better platform games out there, aside from the fact that you have an allegiance to the character?

Again, Sonic was never about running fast.

Yes it was. From the very beginning. It was his whole selling point. If you took out the speed he probably wouldn't have taken off - in fact, he would have been Alex Kidd. This is like saying Ratchet isn't about weapons, Zelda isn't about puzzles, or Silent Hill isn't about surrealism. Those are the series' staples which, if removed, they become nothing more than 'standard' genre games. Ratchet without weapons would have no advantage making it different to Mario, Crash, Spyro etc. Zelda without puzzles would have no advantage making it different to any other dungeon crawler like, say, Gauntlet, Silent Hill without surrealism would have no advantage making it different to Resident Evil or other survival horrors. Sonic was always about running fast. Take that away and you're left with something which wouldn't have captured any of our hearts, or brought in many new fans. It was the whole point of Sonic. His name is even referring to speed.

It was about overcoming design with your skill and the speed was simply a reward for your efforts.

Or rather, both at the same time? Everybody seems to talk about the classics as if they're some kind of 'slowwwFASTFASTFASTslowwwwFASTFASTFAST' pacing nightmare, but it was far better done than that. Sure, Sonic 1 slows to a crawl after Green Hill (and how many non-fans even remember anything after Green Hill in that game anyway?), but after that I don't ever remember the HEART of the game being the difficult platforming, and even in those sections, they were exciting and varied, and they - gasp - were more like the platforming sections in later levels of Unleashed (whether Unleashed needed more of them or not), and nothing like the '14 year old with a pirate copy of The Games Factory' layouts from Colours. If you automated the speed sections of Sonic 2/3K, or removed them altogether, they wouldn't be inherently Sonic at all, and with Colours to me it's like you watch a few parts which resemble what makes Sonic stand out above the other platformers, then you play a few parts which have nothing inherently Sonic about them. In the classics, the Adventure games AND Unleashed, you have to have your wits about you in order to keep the speed sections going, and, in all of these, if you memorise the levels well enough and work hard at them you can get through all of them (bar Sonic 1) without so much as slowing down, or doing that crazy analog stick rocking to try and make sure his floaty jump lands on all of the little squares just right.

I actually find it funny that you say 75% of the 3D sections that involve speed play themselves when the Unleashed running sections are no less automated than Colors. In fact they're almost moreso "cutscenes" than Colors, Unleashed just has more frequent 3D sections so they can work with things.

Play Unleashed 3D section, let go of the analog stick, watch Sonic die/stop/trip/fall. Play Colours 3D section, let go of the analog stick, watch Sonic do a good 10-20 seconds of level by himself, '06 style. Even in Apotos you have to work hard in order to keep up the speed or you'd be tripped, stopped dead, thrown into spikes, or just generally slowed down. Colours pretty much plays the speed sections out for you after the first few levels, and in the ones where you have some control, you're just shifting him between three planes avoiding oncoming hazards; the interactivity of an old LCD game. It'd be nice to have had quickstep buttons with the classic controller, because being able to steer Sonic and quickstep at the same time, even if you don't need it, just makes it all feel so much more tactile, I feel so detached from the quickstep sections in Colours and so involved in the Unleashed ones, and I think it's because the analog stick makes a difference to his speed and steers him, whether you actually need to make use of that or not. That's why Terminal Velocity felt so rubbish to me too, sure the idea of it is thrilling but I felt just so detached from the whole thing because of the on-rails quickstep-only thing.

[JezMM]

Sonic Unleashed plays its self for 1 minute, you can just tap the boost button for 1 minute between either QTES or chasing to go straight forward. and their isn't any multiple paths in unleashed and their isn't much platforming either.

Every main stage has at least a few "shortcut" style alternate routes, and Mazuri, Spagonia, Chun-Nan, Empire City, Adabat and Eggmanland's main stages all have between 1-5 full blown alternative routes of the same length across the stage. Colours DEFINETLY has it beat routes-wise, but just throwing it out there that it was nowhere near on rails as many people claim. Mazuri and those last three stages are particularly generous for alternative routes (you may recall I showed off all the branching paths from the rails in Empire City in my video a few pages back).

As for platforming, yeah they kept most of that to the secret stages and DLC stages, though there was still plenty in the main stages too of the speedy flowing style (as oppose to Colours' slow precision style).

I honestly don't get it. First, people whine and complain that Sonic Unleashed doesn't have enough platforming and was too much of a running fest. When we finally get it.... we need more running because the game is not enough like Unleashed. I'm flabbergasted.

Just to un-flabberghast you, it's the guys who love Colours are the ones who said Unleashed was too much of a run-fest. It's us guys who loved Unleashed who are the ones saying Colours is... well, not too platformy. We just want more flowing 2D platforming and a bit more 3D platforming everything.

Edited November 23, 2010 by JezMM

[EXshad]

I always liked Unleashed's daytime levels from day 1 (and the night time levels were decent too, and outside of repetitive battles consisted almost entirely of platforming in case anybody didn't notice), I've always said "Unleashed + more colour - Werehog = ultimate Sonic game".

And I still don't get it. If people want all platforming and don't want running (in Colours, most of the running is basically cut scenes anyway), why don't they just play Mario?!.

Like I said, I liked Unleashed too, but for a different reason. This is a different game however. If the game was called Unleashed 2, I'd be complaining about it louder than anyone here about the lack of pure, linear running. But the point of Colors, like I said, is to focus on a varying tempo, like the classics.

In fact, that's what Sonic is about. He was never about speed, he was about tempo. Sonic Team themselves have said this. In the original title, thanks to its usage of pinball physics and some puzzles that actually required you to stand completely still at times (Marble Zone), while at others giving you an opportunity to see Sonic run so fast that the camera couldn't keep up with him, they did this pretty well. Granted, I personally didn't like Marble Zone very much, but the sequels have it similar, with an emphasis on exploring over linear running.

And while they may not have executed it as well as they did in the classics, this is what Sonic Team did with Colors. And yeah, it's different from Unleashed, but I don't think it's meant to be seen as a sequel to Unleashed. I simply think the style of the character models and tone being carried from Unleashed is more or less a sign of cohesiveness in the franchise, something that was missing ever since Sonic 2006 came out. From the start, we knew they were trying to do something different with the gameplay, and again, if they called it Unleashed 2, then they would have dug their own grave and I would agree with you 200%.

Edited November 23, 2010 by EXshad

[DistantJ]

Like I said, I liked Unleashed too, but for a different reason. This is a different game however. If the game was called Unleashed 2, I'd be complaining about it louder than anyone here about the lack of pure, linear running. But the point of Colors, like I said, is to focus on a varying tempo, like the classics.

In fact, that's what Sonic is about. He was never about speed, he was about tempo. Sonic Team themselves have said this. In the original title, thanks to its usage of pinball physics and some puzzles that actually required you to stand completely still at times (Marble Zone), while at others giving you an opportunity to see Sonic run so fast that the camera couldn't keep up with him, they did this pretty well. Granted, I personally didn't like Marble Zone very much, but the sequels have it similar, with an emphasis on exploring over linear running.

And while they may not have executed it as well as they did in the classics, this is what Sonic Team did with Colors. And yeah, it's different from Unleashed, but I don't think it's meant to be seen as a sequel to Unleashed. I simply think the style of the character models and tone being carried from Unleashed is more or less a sign of cohesiveness in the franchise, something that was missing ever since Sonic 2006 came out. From the start, we knew they were trying to do something different with the gameplay, and again, if they called it Unleashed 2, then they would have dug their own grave and I would agree with you 200%.

Well, I never really was mad about it, no grave has been dug, I just am disappointed in the game because of it. I mean it's like Sonic 4, right? A lot of people in here would be happier about it if it had a different name - for me that means nothing really... Unleashed 2 or Colours, I expected an improvement on Unleashed in this one and Sonic-levels-wise it was quite a step backwards for me.

The tempo thing is a good point - and it's probably true, but the classics had varying tempo and everything still felt like it was in harmony - a symphony I suppose - whilst Sonic Colours is more like having the radio on switching between different stations at random, heheh.

[Carbo]

*words*

I expected you to reply with a post about your bunchload of opinions on the game. You missed the entire point I was making, and it has nothing to do with your opinions on this game. But fine, I'll get it over with and play your little opinion game here.

You want to know why I prefer Colors over Mario, disregarding the entire level design? Because it goes on the same principle that the Sonic classics did with the same main concept and idea. The idea that speed is not something given to you like it's the game's main design focus and that you HAVE to go fast, but that overcoming obstacles in full control and get rewarded for your efforts the better you do it. I feel the need to have full control, not just play a Sonic Rush in 3D. I like exploring, finding hidden paths and things I never came across in the game without letting the game limit me. Sonic Unleashed? That feels more like a racing game where the more you progress the more the game considers "do it right or die", but you don't see me saying "go play Burnout" and going on everyone like its the end of the world. In fact, I've attested to numerous times that whether or not Unleashed is fun to me (which it is), has literally nothing to do with whether I consider it is designed good or not.

As for the point I've been trying to make? You've been going on like a stuck record for the past week since you started playing this game and its like you just cant stop antagonizing people with your constant whining about "If you want a platformer play MARIO", in every sense, even on your little "video satire". What if I don't want to fucking play Mario? I have nothing against you prefering Unleashed because I can understand why you like it as I myself used to like it probably as much as you do, and I like debating with people to see their standpoint and understand where they come from, but if you have to resort to shit like "GUYS GO PLAY THIS GAME INSTEAD WHY AREN'T YOU DOING THAT" to people that are enjoying the game you don't like, in the words of Galaxy Man, "that's when we're going to start give a shit". Your ongoing "what if's" about Sonic not having speed is grasping at straws so tightly that they just break. Colors has speed when you're playing it flawlessly, Unleashed simply outthwarts, way too more than it should to the point that it seems to set a new standard and figure speed is what you should have available at all times. I do not think Mario's recent efforts compare at the same line of Colors, mostly because they're entirely different in what they're trying to do and Colors still feels like its through and through a Sonic game. Talk all you want about Sonic's original selling point, but that's not what the games were originally built about, go play Marble Zone or Scrap Brain Zone from the originals, or Labyrinth Zone. Those were not speed based, at all, but if you knew your stuff you could get through these with style. Better yet, play Sonic CD. Because hell, Colors gets more close to that., and that entire game didn't condone max speed unless it needed it. Also, don't pull the card of "iconic Sonic levels" because seriously, that's like saying "Supermassive Black Hole" is the most iconic song by Muse but it automatically means that it's the one that matters the most.

Of course Sonic was known as the fastest thing alive but even if Peter Molyneux could intervene with his motivational speeches that still would not change the fact that words are meaningless when it comes to how a game is built to play. Sonic was just a new platformer hero thrown in the mix at the right time on a new console with some more power and was, disregarding the entire goddamn Sega badassittude put into everything and lolblastprocessing, something new and fun with an interesting pinball physics engine where speed was just as a gimmick to overcome design choice, and no, I did not say anywhere that the classics were slowslowslowFASTFASTFAST. If that was the case, Unleashed would probably fit classics to a T.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Carbo

[EXshad]

Well, I never really was mad about it, no grave has been dug, I just am disappointed in the game because of it. I mean it's like Sonic 4, right? A lot of people in here would be happier about it if it had a different name - for me that means nothing really... Unleashed 2 or Colours, I expected an improvement on Unleashed in this one and Sonic-levels-wise it was quite a step backwards for me.

The tempo thing is a good point - and it's probably true, but the classics had varying tempo and everything still felt like it was in harmony - a symphony I suppose - whilst Sonic Colours is more like having the radio on switching between different stations at random, heheh.

Well, to be fair, keep in mind the hardware. With Wii graphics looking that good, with all the stuff it has going on, I doubt it could have processed all the speed Unleashed had without some lag. Though, I wish they ditched Planet Wisp Act 4 and Asteroild Coaster Act 6 with better levels, perhaps levels more focused on running a la Unleashed. The game, like any, is undoubtedly flawed. For example, I think the 3D segments are slippery at best and way too automated at times. Plus, they have these stupid sections where you can only use the drift in to pass, but you can't use it elsewhere. Same with the quickstep. Personally, I think these problems should be fixed, and the drift can be used at anytime, while the quick step should be relegated to the on-rails areas, like Terminal Velocity.

So yeah, there's always room for improvement, but keep in my the hardware and what they're going for. Unleashed 360/PS3, as it is, would be too much for the little console. Plus, while I love both high-speed running in 3D and the on-rails segments here you quick-step left and right, I think they did the franchise justice by going back to what made the franchise so beloved in the first place. After the storybook series, Unleashed, and 2006, I was worried that they had deviated too far from their roots, and just passing off Sonic 4 as the "return to form" doesn't do it for me. I can see your problems with Colors, because a good chunk of them are problems for me too, but on a pure conceptual level, I think it's what the franchise needed. Not so much for the positive reviews, but for more or less returning to what Sonic grew up on, moreso than even Sonic Adventure did 11 years ago.

Edited November 23, 2010 by EXshad

[DC111]

Like I said you want your seriousness go play the games I mentioned,

Like I said, I thought Sonic Unleashed had the ideal storyline. You act like I need the games to be COMPLETELY srs bsns (like Sonic 2006 and Shadow), and I don't.

See. The script isn't all bad, and filled with corny puns, it has its awesome lines too, you just gotta look.

If awesome lines have to be SEARCHED for, there's a problem. But I rest my case... most people here don't seem to mind the lines, so I guess I'm in the minority.

Saying this game has bad writers is a bold-faced lie.

MY OPINION is not a lie.

I always liked Unleashed's daytime levels from day 1 (and the night time levels were decent too, and outside of repetitive battles consisted almost entirely of platforming in case anybody didn't notice), I've always said "Unleashed + more colour - Werehog = ultimate Sonic game".

consisted almost entirely of platforming

This.

Imagine that. Fans want slower Sonic with platforming, they get it in the form of Werehog, they complain. Gotta love the Sonic fanbase.

Yeah, yeah, I know what people will respond to this with: that's different, because Werehog was flawed and poorly executed. But honestly, so was some of the platforming in Colors. Sonic's floaty jump messes up the platforming experience a bit for me. Having said that, although both games have flaws, I think the gameplay in both instances is good overall.

[Ferno]

This.

Imagine that. Fans want slower Sonic with platforming, they get it in the form of Werehog, they complain. Gotta love the Sonic fanbase.

Agreed with you both. I went back to Play Spagonia night the other day, and gawd I loved the platforming it had in that one part where you're inside the Big Ben clock tower.

I also loved it when I first played it. When I saw that the intewebz unanimously hated it however, I made this face: D:, and thought: "So I'm never gonna be seeing this type of platforming again?...Not even with Knuckles replacing the Werehog parts?"

I'm willing to bet that if Unleashed had been Sonic and Knuckles 2, people would've liked it alot more.

[Carbo]

This.

Imagine that. Fans want slower Sonic with platforming, they get it in the form of Werehog, they complain. Gotta love the Sonic fanbase.

No one ever said they wanted Sonic to go slow. Most people who didn't get into Unleashed wanted Sonic to go at a decently fast pace where speed is pretty much an implication of how well you're performing.

I didn't mind Unleashed's Werehog concept on paper because when I first heard of the idea I assumed it would be a sort of "Prototype-ish" approach to it of bigger levels that are instead tackled onto through free-roam and speed, and even when I saw the first footage of it, I stayed a bit on the positive note because hopefully the level design and system would have made up for my sort of overestimated expectations, but the levels are way too samey to support the sluggish system. They weren't that bad the first time but in the long run it sort of grew tedious and then into the realms of mediocrity.

The fun part is that with some rehaul, scraping the combat system and an engine more akin to Adventure, those Werehog levels might had made some pretty decent Sonic levels.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Carbo