So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[Djawed]

I do agree that visual wise the game falls flat in the foreground. Especially in 2d segments. Same old copy pasted flat platforms and such do kind of affect the experience. In the end however it's still a visual thing and you could replace them with something better looking but it still would be the same game.

But I do get the point. I still stand by my other point that the level design itself is excellent however... for the control/physics it uses it defenitly does it's thing very well.

Other than that... actually when I just play the game without having to pay attention to the said details that people point out in this thread. Sonic colors > sonic unleashed a thousand times.

[JezMM]

OH my god. Do we finally agree on something? Praise the great heavens.

Only that Colours is the more well-rounded package lol.

I still think Unleashed has better "Sonic" gameplay, was far more epic and engaging presentation-wise, had far more in terms of stuff to do (took me months to 100% Unleashed, a week for Colours - and I had more time to play Unleashed).

Like DistantJ and Blue Blood are saying, when Unleashed was at it's best, it was better than Colours, but unlike Colours it was inconsistant.

Of course, the reason this is fine by me is because I like the Werehog, and I like it more because it's seperate from Sonic's speedy gameplay, rather than interrupting like the Wisps do (and before anyone says you can ignore them or play as Super Sonic, no, there's nothing unfun about the Wisps, they just aren't Sonic platforming to me, but the levels are designed around this kind of platforming so ignoring them and taking the most basic, boring route through the level is not the option).

[Kuzu]

Sonic isn't a beat'em up either mate, and if you like the Werehog's platforming, why not Colors`?

[Aquaslash]

Interesting, so you feel that if you replaced the Werehog with a previously existing character like Knuckles or Bark or whoever else, that you'd have been more accepting of it?

I mean, really the Werehog is the result of the designers wanting to introduce something new without adding in more characters, since back then the big complaint about Sonic seemed to be unnecessary extra characters (it seems after each game, people come up with a new major complaint about all of the previous ones and never mention the important stuff... lol)... An excuse to throw in a completely new play style like they did in SA2, but say "but look, it's still Sonic!", heh.

Anyways, old character or new character (or new form for previous character), it doesn't really matter, it's just about if you enjoy it, and personally I actually did enjoy the Werehog, the same way some people here enjoyed the mechs and emerald hunting in SA2. I just found his levels a tad too long. I find it interesting that people get more annoyed about the Werehog than they did about fishing, emerald hunting, mechs, Amy levels etc., when they're essentially the same issue (and if you look at SA2, they're similarly forced upon you). Perhaps it's because the Sonic Adventure games came to us in a time when we were more forgiving of such things - when 3D gaming was still relatively new so all games were flawed, and when we were younger and more excited about it all and therefore more willing to forgive things and take them as they are, since it was worth it for the good stuff.

I still stand by my position: I like the day stages, I like the Werehog, I just didn't like being made to swap between them, but I don't even have to anymore because I've beat the game; bonus!

I missed this. To answer the question, I already liked werehog in general. It was by far the better half of the game for me, what with instant S or A ranks on every night stage, and E ranks on every day stage. But if Werehog were instead Knuckles, or Bark, EVERYONE would have been more accepting of it. The gameplay style suits Knuckles to a tee and if a lot more fun than emerald hunting. I hope that at some point, it does comeback but wrapped in a nice Knuckles skin.

[JezMM]

Sonic isn't a beat'em up either mate, and if you like the Werehog's platforming, why not Colors`?

I do like the Wisp platforming, but the Wisp platforming interrupts the regular Sonic gameplay. Werehog was 100% seperate.

[sjmaster92]

I'm also one of the people who enjoyed the Werehog, but i don't honestly see how knuckles could have worked in that type of gameplay, atleast in unleashed.

[Kuzu]

I do like the Wisp platforming, but the Wisp platforming interrupts the regular Sonic gameplay. Werehog was 100% seperate.

Not really the Wisp only last for 30 seconds at most, then you return to normal Sonic gameplay, The Werehog stages may be fun to some people, and I did like it, playing as him just made me wish I was playing as Sonic.

I'm also one of the people who enjoyed the Werehog, but i don't honestly see how knuckles could have worked in that type of gameplay, atleast in unleashed.

Fighting fits Knuckles more because its more in character for him to beat the shit out things, instead of Sonic. I admit though even if Knuckles was in the Werehog's place, I'd still want Sonic as the sole character in Unleashed.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Shadic93

[Aquaslash]

I'm also one of the people who enjoyed the Werehog, but i don't honestly see how knuckles could have worked in that type of gameplay, atleast in unleashed.

Replace stretchy arms with gliding for most parts, and let him climb poles and walls. In fact, using Knuckles would be FASTER as he could bypass a lot more of the fights due to his gliding. You could also increase his fist size during combos for comedic effect. The Riders games do it.

That, and Knuckles has been doing shoryukens since Advance 1. Flaming ones even!

[Ferno]

His arms also kinda stretched and got bigger in the Adventures as well, so it could work.

[JezMM]

Not really the Wisp only last for 30 seconds at most, then you return to normal Sonic gameplay, The Werehog stages may be fun to some people, and I did like it, playing as him just made me wish I was playing as Sonic.

It's still not "Sonic" platforming to me though. Imagine watching a movie and randomly it cuts to a guy doing stand-up comedy for 30 seconds every few minutes. Might be hilarious stand-up but still intrudes on the movie.

[Kuzu]

It's still not "Sonic" platforming to me though. Imagine watching a movie and randomly it cuts to a guy doing stand-up comedy for 30 seconds every few minutes. Might be hilarious stand-up but still intrudes on the movie.

lol family guy

Its better than a segment that has no other business in the movie other than prolonging it.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Shadic93

[speedduelist]

I think you got stuck in a submit loop there, Voyant, your post repeats itself 3 times.

Looking objectively, Colours is probably the better game, yes, but it is about how much fun you have, and for me I have more fun in the daytime levels of Unleashed than I do in Colours, so I dunno... I mean if you shoved an alternative play style into Colours between the Sonic levels, I'd hate the thing, the Sonic levels wouldn't have been strong enough for me to forgive it, like they were in SA2 and Unleashed. In my eyes, 'it doesn't have the Werehog or any other annoying crap between levels' isn't a good enough excuse to forgive the really poor level layouts, but that's just me.

Let me put this up :

Sonic 3&k,sonic 1 and Sonic CD has slow platforming,hidden path ways, hidden areas in each level and Explorations. sonic colors has that too, so that is why i like it better than unleashed. their is a big chance that they thought of sonic 3&k while Creating colors.

Sonic Unleashed is particalary holding you forward, their is no secret areas and their isn't much platforming (aside DLC levels and Eggman land and adabat).

i am not comparing Unleashed to Sa2, i am comparing unleashed to the classics.

because obviously colors has as much platforming and with the same style as the classics and has a lot of multiple paths and hidden areas, while Unleashed day time platforming is far less than the classics, their are stages that are based around Running and only running and quick stepping and drifting and Killing enemies and chasing enemies, that is fun i will admit, but i prefer slow platforming and Explorations like the classics and colors than going forward as fast as possiable.

I hope that clears things up.

and that is my opinion.

I never said colors beats unleashed or unleashed beats colors, because its an opinion.

I don't like to Run forward all the time (Not saying the game plays its self), I like the slow careful platforming in the classics than going forward all the time.

Every stage in colors have multiple paths and hidden areas like the classics, that alone makes me like it more than unleashed.

[DistantJ]

I do agree that visual wise the game falls flat in the foreground. Especially in 2d segments. Same old copy pasted flat platforms and such do kind of affect the experience. In the end however it's still a visual thing and you could replace them with something better looking but it still would be the same game.

We're not talking about the *look* of the platforms, rather, the fact that they're all the same size and shape, just loads of the same little rectangle platforms dotted around which you have to really rock that analog stick around to steer him to land on properly etc. Most platform games vary their platforming challenges much more than this and a series which naturally has slippy controls due to speed shouldn't rely on tiny little platforms requiring perfect jump accuracy.

I still think Unleashed has better "Sonic" gameplay, was far more epic and engaging presentation-wise, had far more in terms of stuff to do (took me months to 100% Unleashed, a week for Colours - and I had more time to play Unleashed).

...

Of course, the reason this is fine by me is because I like the Werehog, and I like it more because it's seperate from Sonic's speedy gameplay, rather than interrupting like the Wisps do (and before anyone says you can ignore them or play as Super Sonic, no, there's nothing unfun about the Wisps, they just aren't Sonic platforming to me, but the levels are designed around this kind of platforming so ignoring them and taking the most basic, boring route through the level is not the option).

This. Colours is a 'better' game than Unleashed in the same way that Secret Rings is a 'better' game than Sonic Adventure 2. It's more consistent and doesn't throw in unnecessary parts, but I know which I'd rather play.

I missed this. To answer the question, I already liked werehog in general. It was by far the better half of the game for me, what with instant S or A ranks on every night stage, and E ranks on every day stage. But if Werehog were instead Knuckles, or Bark, EVERYONE would have been more accepting of it. The gameplay style suits Knuckles to a tee and if a lot more fun than emerald hunting. I hope that at some point, it does comeback but wrapped in a nice Knuckles skin.

Interesting. So to you it was more about the Werehog being so alien to you? When I think of stuff like that I just think, well, once, Knuckles himself was alien to the series, as was Super Sonic, as was Tails (I never found Chip any more annoying than Tails tbh), and Sonic's Werehog form is rooted nicely in the story. I also think he's more fitting than Tails' great big missile-firing, transforming mech was at the time... Heh. Personally I've enjoyed the way Sonic has tried so many new things over the recent years, I just wish they had been done well - for example I was one of the people defending the idea of Black Knight - I think that for a one-off spinoff game it could have been awesome, running at Sonic speed but also battling with swords, unfortunately the controls were just terrible (in my opinion) and having to slow down or even stop to do the sword fighting was it's ultimate downfall for me. Similarly I didn't mind the guns in Shadow (but the 'realistic' military guns did look a bit ridiculous on him, to be fair, maybe it should have stuck to the laser blasters and cartoon guns) just that game was a little bit glitchier and less well programmed than the previous 3D ones... So the Werehog wasn't unwelcome for me at all, it's just the fact that he was so slow, the framerate and camera were so iffy and the levels were so long that took it down to SA2 standards instead of being two awesome games for the price of one. Similarly I love the idea of the wisps in Colours, they are so cool, but I find them quite awkward for the most part - rarely did I feel I actually benefited much from using the drill or laser, and I found the controls for the spikes and frenzy (when in 3D) to be a real pain, the rocket didn't give you a chance to look above so most of the time you would just fly into a ceiling, the only ones which felt like they really benefited me and controlled well were the hover and cube, which really lent themselves to fun gameplay and platform challenges, even if the extended cube sections kinda bored me.

Like the idea of Knuckles-werehog though, just because by default he would run a lot faster.

Sonic 3&k,sonic 1 and Sonic CD has slow platforming,hidden path ways, hidden areas in each level and Explorations. sonic colors has that too, so that is why i like it better than unleashed. their is a big chance that they thought of sonic 3&k while Creating colors.

Sonic Unleashed is particalary holding you forward, their is no secret areas and their isn't much platforming (aside DLC levels and Eggman land and adabat).

But what do Sonic 1-3 + CD have to do with my liking the game? And Sonic 4 has all those things, but I'll bet you don't like that one.

Edited November 25, 2010 by DistantJ

[Core]

I would rate Unleashed above Colors, personally. Not by much, since I don't love Unleashed, but I certainly had more fun with it than with Colors. I liked the daytime levels, the Werehog, the hubs worlds... Unleashed had its share of frustrating moments (both in daytime stages and nighttimes stages), more than Colors yes, but it also it had more fun moments. I didn't really found Colors that fun; it was mostly boring and OK at best.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Core

[speedduelist]

But what do Sonic 1-3 + CD have to do with my liking the game? And Sonic 4 has all those things, but I'll bet you don't like that one.

Easy here. I am only stating my opinion and my point of view on Colors.

Sonic 4 is Defiantly not near as bad as Sonic advance games or the rush games. Sonic 4 Episode 1 is a good game, its just not near as good as any of the classics.

its still a fun game, but it lacks almost every thing i liked about Sonic 3&k or sonic 1 or CD.

Sonic Colors beats Sonic 4 episode 1, and Sonic colors is way more worthy of the title of Sonic 4 in my opinion.

Reason : Explorations,hidden areas,slow platforming and

Super sonic!

Sonic colors even has what I liked about Sonic 3&k and Expands on it (Hence wisps and way more alternate path ways, more hidden areas, bigger level design and ranking system) unlike Sonic 4 Episode 1.

I would say Colors has its limits, but to be honest, its limits goes to being as good as sonic 3&k in my opinion.

Edited November 25, 2010 by speedduelist

[Kuzu]

I would rate Unleashed above Colors, personally. Not by much, since I don't love Unleashed, but I certainly had more fun with it than with Colors. I liked the daytime levels, the Werehog, the hubs worlds... Unleashed had its share of frustrating moments (both in daytime stages and nighttimes stages), more than Colors yes, but it also it had more fun moments. I didn't really found Colors that fun; it was mostly boring and OK at best.

[speedduelist]

The reason of the werehog was actually because the day light levels were purely on rails, thus, they needed to Create too much Empty space for sonic to run on and that was too much hard work on barley any creativity.

with colors they added platforming in a similar style to the old games and they also added many hidden areas and multiple path ways (just like the classics).

"I asked one of the developers at TGS, you know I was like, come on everybody just wants Sonic running, like whats up with the werehog? And he was like, well, heres the deal... he runs at this miles per hour, kilometers per hour, and he laid out all of the statistics on how fast this hedgehog goes, and he was like In order to make a game where Sonic is running and everybody enjoys the whole thing we'd have to design this many miles of level, and it was some ungodly number. And he's like and that would be like maybe a three hour game and I was like wow, well that kinda stinks and he's like yeah, so we gotta do this other stuff."

[Voyant]

^

Unleashed wasn't purely on rails O.O...if anything Unleashed does have superior 3D segments. While colors has better 2D segments. Hey I love the classics more than the next guy, but a modern game doesn't have to be EXACTLY like the classics to be good.

Instead I view the good points of both styles and wish for a combination of the two.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Voyant

[Carbo]

Werehog was padded in solely for the fact that they needed a gameplay lengthening element, so Werehog is less "people will be tired of Sonic only" and more "we're just out of ideas".

[Kuzu]

Werehog was padded in solely for the fact that they needed a gameplay lengthening element, so Werehog is less "people will be tired of Sonic only" and more "we're just out of ideas".

[speedduelist]

Unleashed wasn't purely on rails O.O...if anything Unleashed does have superior 3D segments. While colors has better 2D segments. Hey I love the classics more than the next guy, but a modern game doesn't have to be EXACTLY like the classics to be good.

Instead I view the good points of both styles and wish for a combination of the two.

Edited November 25, 2010 by speedduelist

[Spooky Mulder]

I hate to say it, but after watching some videos of Jungle Joyride 360 (can't play it since my 360 crapper out- damn red ring) it made me really wish that Colors had some better/more 3D sections. A lot of people have criticized Unleashed for being "too fast" but honestly I think that 3D Sonic games do need to be really fast in spots to give you that "thrill." Its all relative, Sonic felt pretty fast at times in the 90s but if he went that same speed in a 3D game of today he'd seem pretty slow. So I think that the solution is to speed him up to give you that speedy rush you don't get in other games. I'm not saying to cut out platforming. Platforming is important to keep the game balanced and feeling like a Sonic game, but there does need to be some variety to keep it from being repetitive.

In ways though I feel like some of those faults are because of the Wii's limited power. On the 360 or PS3 they could do so much more toward making the best possible 3D Sonic game, which is why I really look forward to Sonic 2011.

Edited November 25, 2010 by BD3

[speedduelist]

I hate to say it, but after watching some videos of Jungle Joyride 360 (can't play it since my 360 crapper out- damn red ring) it made me really wish that Colors had some better/more 3D sections. A lot of people have criticized Unleashed for being "too fast" but honestly I think that 3D Sonic games do need to be really fast in spots to give you that "thrill." Its all relative, Sonic felt pretty fast at times in the 90s but if he went that same speed in a 3D game of today he'd seem pretty slow. So I think that the solution is to speed him up to give you that speedy rush you don't get in other games. I'm not saying to cut out platforming. Platforming is important to keep the game balanced and feeling like a Sonic game, but there does need to be some variety to keep it from being repetitive.

In ways though I feel like some of those faults are because of the Wii's limited power. On the 360 or PS3 they could do so much more toward making the best possible 3D Sonic game, which is why I really look forward to Sonic 2011.

Edited November 25, 2010 by speedduelist

[Ferno]

*Comes in to see speedduelist once again resorting to spamming videos of a game he's never played to try and prove a point....for the umpteenth time.*

Same old, same old. :/

[Aquaslash]

Interesting. So to you it was more about the Werehog being so alien to you? When I think of stuff like that I just think, well, once, Knuckles himself was alien to the series, as was Super Sonic, as was Tails (I never found Chip any more annoying than Tails tbh), and Sonic's Werehog form is rooted nicely in the story. I also think he's more fitting than Tails' great big missile-firing, transforming mech was at the time... Heh. Personally I've enjoyed the way Sonic has tried so many new things over the recent years, I just wish they had been done well - for example I was one of the people defending the idea of Black Knight - I think that for a one-off spinoff game it could have been awesome, running at Sonic speed but also battling with swords, unfortunately the controls were just terrible (in my opinion) and having to slow down or even stop to do the sword fighting was it's ultimate downfall for me. Similarly I didn't mind the guns in Shadow (but the 'realistic' military guns did look a bit ridiculous on him, to be fair, maybe it should have stuck to the laser blasters and cartoon guns) just that game was a little bit glitchier and less well programmed than the previous 3D ones... So the Werehog wasn't unwelcome for me at all, it's just the fact that he was so slow, the framerate and camera were so iffy and the levels were so long that took it down to SA2 standards instead of being two awesome games for the price of one. Similarly I love the idea of the wisps in Colours, they are so cool, but I find them quite awkward for the most part - rarely did I feel I actually benefited much from using the drill or laser, and I found the controls for the spikes and frenzy (when in 3D) to be a real pain, the rocket didn't give you a chance to look above so most of the time you would just fly into a ceiling, the only ones which felt like they really benefited me and controlled well were the hover and cube, which really lent themselves to fun gameplay and platform challenges, even if the extended cube sections kinda bored me.

Like the idea of Knuckles-werehog though, just because by default he would run a lot faster.