So now that you have played sonic colo(u)rs

[Nepenthe]

Over the last few replies, it seems fairly clear to me that the status quo already established in the debate right now is that Colors is overall better than Unleashed, and that this has been decided on by a general comparison of the quality of the components of each game is as a whole. DistantJ seems to be merely arguing against the terms set forth by Colors' defenders about what the quality of these components actually is, hence why he found Unleashed more fun than Colors.

My point is that neither side is inherently more right than the other because the quality of all the components of a game is subject to different interpretation by different players, thus I don't see the need to keep up this particular back and forth nor post LOL pictures over DistantJ's statement that "less flaws don't equal better" because, in the context of subjectivity, he is indeed correct about that.

Unfortunately, I don't have much more to add to the debate anyways, and I think arguing about what the argument is about will serve to illicit facepalms from people on every side of the fence. Besides, I've only played one game in the equation, so what the hell do I know, eh? Carry on. Apologies.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Djawed]

HUGE PRO TIP: You can Air Boost in drifting sections...makes those parts a lot more fun and faster...gave colors a big +1 for me too. Also if you hold down the A jump button Sonic does not uncurl so you can go hold school on some robots there are even times when doing old school can be better because it keeps Sonic's forward momentum going and you can do some pretty cool trick links.

Which is really handy when you want to speed run, if you want to go for the highest score however(S ranking), not so much . Drifting gives a lot of points.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Jaouad

[Voyant]

Over the last few replies, it seems fairly clear to me that the status quo already established in the debate right now is that Colors is overall better than Unleashed, and that this has been decided on by a general comparison of the quality of the components of each game is as a whole. DistantJ seems to be merely arguing against the terms set forth by Colors' defenders about what the quality of these components actually is, hence why he found Unleashed more fun than Colors.

My point is that neither side is inherently more right than the other because the quality of all the components of a game is subject to different interpretation by different players, thus I don't see the need to keep up this particular back and forth nor post LOL pictures over DistantJ's statement that "less flaws don't equal better" because, in the context of subjectivity, he is indeed correct about that.

Unfortunately, I don't have much more to add to the debate anyways, and I think arguing about what the argument is about will serve to illicit facepalms from people on every side of the fence. Besides, I've only played one game in the equation, so what the hell do I know, eh? Carry on. Apologies.

That doesn't mean that his subjectively doesn't equate to "Double Standards" or doesn't make any kind of fucking sense. He going through loops in his arguments pointing out "flaws" that don't exist and a lot of other stuff that's really strange...its like he hasn't even touched the classic Sonic Games in his entire life.

Not liking Sonic Colors because you enjoyed the sensation of Unleashed and it didn't capture that kind of feeling...got it. Not liking Sonic Colors because it DOES the right thing by being similar to how classic Sonic is played? Then still LIKING the classic Sonic?

See where I'm going with this? If one thing if you found the Classic Sonic a snore fest...but that's not the case here. I think all this could be easily solved with an HD version though. Wii just doesn't have the capabilities to capture that sensation.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Voyant

[Nepenthe]

I don't think you noticed my opening qualifier, Voyant-- "Over the last few replies." I'm not taking into account much less defending any cognitive dissonance or other logical fallacies that DistantJ or anyone else may have displayed before I actually came into the current picture of the debate. I'm making a silly point about games and the review culture surrounding them based on a tiny snippet of this entire thread.

I also have to note that I internally cringed at your implication that the right way of doing things is by being similar to classic Sonic, but I believe that's a knee-jerk reaction completely independent of your context. Nevertheless, I said I'm taking my leave, and I will-- Arguing about arguments sucks.

[Core]

Not liking Sonic Colors because you enjoyed the sensation of Unleashed and it didn't capture that kind of feeling...got it. Not liking Sonic Colors because it DOES the right thing by being similar to how classic Sonic is played? Then still LIKING the classic Sonic?

That's the thing though, for some people Sonic Colors is pretty different from the classic Sonic games (and they have already explained why several times). It is perfectly understandable to like the classic Sonic games while not liking Sonic Colors. Of course, it is also perfectly understandable to like both.

[DistantJ]

Nepenthe, where have you been all my life!

As an innocent bystander who hasn't played Colors yet really wants to, it seems to me that neither side of this argument is difficult to understand, but you all seemed determined to browbeat this idea to DistantJ that Colors' objective superiority should undoubtedly equal a better subjective experience. This viewpoint that the parts, even the same parts across two or more experiences, should always be equivalent to a particular sum of that particular experience or else there's something wrong with you has always strangely seemed very exclusive to gaming, and frankly its disheartening, alienating, and a disservice to the medium as an art form. Good games can be downright boring and do nothing for a player. Bad games can be extremely fun and resonate with the player in some meaningful way. Surely this isn't blasphemous, is it?

Anyhoo, in terms of whether or not Colors beats Unleashed, I shall hopefully find that out next week once I get some funds. I'm naturally wary however; I am a staunch Unleashed defender, and not just the daytime parts. Ergo, I'm hoping very much that the game lives up to the expectation you guys are setting here.

I wish I could give +100 positive rep for this post. This was absolutely perfect.

I'm saying that a life of reading reviews has turned a lot of you internet-dwelling gamers into strange surveyors and analysers rather than players, interested in being impressed rather than enjoying. I'm saying that I find Unleashed to be a more enjoyable game, the Sonic thrills which no other series offers are better than ever in there, whilst in Colours they're pretty much, well... gone. I didn't find any of it fun or exciting, I don't care how 'well rounded' something is, if I don't have fun, I don't have fun.

It'd be very similar to rating Zelda: Spirit Tracks over Zelda: The Wind Waker, just because the former doesn't have sailing or a triforce quest, even though the latter doesn't have the atmosphere, the visuals or the story which made Wind Waker so great. Therefore, less flaws does not equal better.

[Carbo]

I'm saying that a life of reading reviews has turned a lot of you internet-dwelling gamers into strange surveyors and analysers rather than players, interested in being impressed rather than enjoying.

I've been complaining about issues in games ever since I was a kid. Reviews are nothing to me and what I consider flaws. If I don't like something in a game, it sure as hell tears down the enjoyment in that.

Don't stigmatize people like that and assume we cant have any fun in games. It's quite alienating.

[Saint Nathan]

I'm saying that a life of reading reviews

[DistantJ]

Don't care in the slightest what you find to be a more fun game.

Edited November 21, 2010 by DistantJ

[Kuzu]

What's thrilling about Sonic Colours, then? "Running from a field into a construction site", I heard somebody on here say one of the most thrilling moments is. You know, I'm sure a lot of people do that in real life regularly.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Oh god, cluster-quotes. We're past the point of no return! Abandon thread before they start taking every single sentence as a seperate argument to respond to- Aaaagh, it's already happening!

But dang, that Nepenthe's post was a work of art. I'm gonna go back and +rep that one right now.

[DistantJ]

I meant thrilling gameplay, not locations...

@Grumpy Old Guy: Yeah, I think I'm gonna stop those now, it's starting to look like it isn't worth it...

Edited November 21, 2010 by DistantJ

[Kuzu]

I meant thrilling gameplay, not locations...

[Voyant]

Or how about the fact that YOUR RUNNING DOWN A SPACE ELEVATOR!!! TOWARD THE FUCKING EARTH!

At a horizontal angel...then almost Get SUCKED UP BY A BLACK FUCKING HOLE!!! How is that not THRILLING? Distant...did you even BEAT the game?

[DistantJ]

Yeah, that was the very last level. The one which is supposed to be the most epic in the game... The one which is supposed to be exciting in every game. And it's the only example you're giving me. And it's a near 100% quickstep level, on rails, and all in a straight line. It was pretty exciting to look at, for sure, but I didn't really have fun with it, I found it frustrating and found the gameplay to be unfair and very shallow (Seriously, doing almost nothing but switching between 3 lanes to avoid attacks? Reminds me of those old LCD games).

Edited November 21, 2010 by DistantJ

[Kuzu]

Yeah, that was the very last level. The one which is supposed to be the most epic in the game... The one which is supposed to be exciting in every game. And it's the only example you're giving me. And it's a near 100% quickstep level, on rails, and all in a straight line.

And so was Unleashed, so how is it inferior?

Edited November 21, 2010 by Shadic93

[Voyant]

Yeah, that was the very last level. The one which is supposed to be the most epic in the game... The one which is supposed to be exciting in every game. And it's the only example you're giving me. And it's a near 100% quickstep level, on rails, and all in a straight line. It was pretty exciting to look at, for sure, but I didn't really have fun with it, I found it frustrating and found the gameplay to be unfair and very shallow (Seriously, doing almost nothing but switching between 3 lanes to avoid attacks? Reminds me of those old LCD games).

Did you PLAY unleashed? Lol its like arguing with a blind person that was just TOLD how the game was...I done man...fuck this...

[Scar]

Why are we still arguing about this?

Get over it, DistantJ and JezMM like Unleashed more than Colours. That's like them saying they prefer Sonic 2 to Sonic and Knuckles.

There is no need to convince them otherwise or try to prove them wrong or whatever. They're entitled to their opinon so just let it go for fuck's sake.

Seriously why do you care?

Don't care in the slightest what you find to be a more fun game.

Don't caaarrree.

Oh really? If you don't care, then why the fuck are you still responding and attempting to convince him that Colours is better.

If you don't care, then please care not to respond.

[Carbo]

And so was Unleashed, so how is it inferior?

He has a point though. Its an entire level on 3 lanes, and majorly on rails, barring the final boss there's not that much to do.

In a sense though, I think its an interesting contrast towards the rest of the game in that case, cause it kind of reminds me how the Bionic Commando 2009 game ended with its final boss which was a glorified QTE, but still it sort of had this pretty epic cinematic feel about it which really added onto the game as an interesting segregation so I let that slide personally. Colors reminds me alot of Final Zone XX of Advance 2 as well, which was a pretty nifty zone.

Oh really? If you don't care, then why the fuck are you still responding and attempting to convince him that Colours is better.

If you don't care, then please care not to respond.

Poorly designed games don't really tend to fall into the same line of discussion when it comes to talking about how "fun" they are. While what he said did come off slightly jerkish, he has a point. It really doesn't have much to do with the subject of game design flaws.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Carbo

[DistantJ]

Why are we still arguing about this?

Get over it, DistantJ and JezMM like Unleashed more than Colours. That's like them saying they prefer Sonic 2 to Sonic and Knuckles.

There is no need to convince them otherwise or try to prove them wrong or whatever. They're entitled to their opinon so just let it go for fuck's sake.

Seriously why do you care?

Oh really? If you don't care, then why the fuck are you still responding and attempting to convince him that Colours is better.

If you don't care, then please care not to respond.

Scar, you ever wanna high five somebody through the net? I wanna high five you for this post.

(And I do prefer Sonic 2 to Sonic 3K, by the way... )

Edited November 21, 2010 by DistantJ

[Saint Nathan]

I forgot this form was all about you and only you, so everything which had to be posted had to be things you personally care about.

I'm not even sure how the hell you could think that was what I meant.

I don't care what one you like better. You're making things up at this point, in fact you have been, constantly. If you like the game or not, I don't care. Nobody really cares. But when you make things up about it, that's when we're going to give a shit.

Certainly a good job you took the time to tell me. I'll try to make sure everything I write in the future is something which you, personally, care about.

And you say other people have the attitude.

What's thrilling about Sonic Colours, then?

Riding on a Roller Coaster made of bones, in space.

Running around the rings of a steampunk-style bronze satellite, fighting Motobugs.

Running over a bridge while EARTH ITSELF floats in the background.

Picking up a Lazer Wisp for the first time.

Picking up a Drill Wisp for the first time.

Picking up a Hover Wisp for the first time.

Picking up a Frenzy Wisp for the first time.

Running around a donut loop-de-loop.

And that's just off the top of my head.

"Running from a field into a construction site", I heard somebody on here say one of the most thrilling moments is. You know, I'm sure a lot of people do that in real life regularly.

Do they do it while the music changes from soothing piano into a more techno kind of sound, fitting the pace and feel of the level perfectly, while simultaneously being hit by the fact that this planet is getting fucked hard?

This has what to do with me?

You enjoy Unleashed, we enjoy Colors.

You spotting typos makes me wrong about Sonic Colours!

Once again, how the fuck did you get that. All I said was that you said that Wind Waker was lacking things that Wind Waker had.

I mean, that just makes no sense.

You know what? Even the Werehog levels are varied and interesting to me. I don't remember those consisting of just jumping between little rectangles from a side-on view.

No, you just jumped on little rectangles from a 3D perspective.

Who the hell said Unleashed was flawless?

\:|

one more time, how. the. fuck. did you get that.

I said '06. You replied knowing that at that point in my post, I was talking about '06. How did you think I was talking about Unleashed?

[DaBatGuy]

I have to agree with DistantJ about Terminal Velocity. Despite the uber epic scene of running down a space elevator with badass music, the gameplay was dull as fuck. It starts out with a trio of Flying Egg Pawns as they attack with a predictable laser pattern... and only a predictable laser pattern. No firebombs, no electric tripwire, no oncoming spikes, pits, pillars or even regular eggpawns to smash into them. And the other sections with the moto bugs and octopus... thing have the same problem, they are empty, repetitive and lack challenge, especially compared to their Unleashed counterparts. This is supposed to be the final level, beating it on my first try and only getting hit once is a Huge flaw IMO.

[DistantJ]

I have to agree with DistantJ about Terminal Velocity. Despite the uber epic scene of running down a space elevator with badass music, the gameplay was dull as fuck.

[Voyant]

I'm not even sure how the hell you could think that was what I meant.

I don't care what one you like better. You're making things up at this point, in fact you have been, constantly. If you like the game or not, I don't care. Nobody really cares. But when you make things up about it, that's when we're going to give a shit

Edited November 21, 2010 by Voyant

[DistantJ]

I am not 'making shit up'. I'm recounting my experience with the game. Do you think I wanted to dislike it? I was so excited for this game. I mean ridiculously excited. I couldn't wait. I even sold my copy of Sonic Unleashed a few weeks before it came out so that I wouldn't be bothered by the downgrade in graphics etc., that's how much I wanted to like this one. And I didn't. Do you think I'd make that up? Do you think I'm happy about that? Do you think I'd dwell on a flaw if I didn't think it was absolutely pivotal for me? What exactly has been irrational or illogical? I am GUTTED that I didn't like this game, this is why I have topics such as my 'how HD could help' thread, hoping maybe something could help me enjoy the game like you guys do. All I have done in here is explained why I feel much happier going back to Unleashed, being that that was the meaning of this topic.

Now you have a problem with the way I go about people 'on my side', too? If I think a post is good, I'm gonna tell somebody. That's me being friendly. Usually I don't go into 'high five' mode if somebody recounts a similar experience of the game as me, rather if they make a post which points out what I've been trying to say all along, but does a better job putting it into words than me, or which points out the pointlessness of some of the responses I've received challenging my opinion on the game. I don't need you guys jumping in here trying to tell me I'm a hypocrite for enjoying one game more than another game. Seriously. Do you see me responding to any of the people really happy with Colours trying to tell them things which are wrong with their experience with the game? Only when they've torn my posts apart, trying to 'prove me wrong' - you can't change somebody's mind on an experience they had.

Edited November 21, 2010 by DistantJ