Sonic 4: Episode 1 Impressions, Thoughts, & Help Topic

[Marcello]

I don't understand why Dimps didn't use the Advance physics engine or whatever. It worked perfectly fine :-/ Not that I actually mind all that much, but I think it would've been better and there would be less complaints.

[Ferno]

We only have one month to live? D:

Touche.

*Tries to leave a +1, but reached his daily limit*

Dangit, third time I forgot today. D: *Adds MarcelloF to "don't forget to 1up later list"*

[Diogenes]

Yeah, I even saw footage of people at SoS who queued up just to play it like a moron, jumping in all the wrong places, doing strange manoeuvres, fiddling around with a game in ways it wasn't intended to be fiddled around with,

A good game should be robust enough to handle this stuff without major problems, tho'.

[Scar]

Oh for fucks sake.

Can we ever stop arguing.

I'm going to try and say what should have been said a long time ago (not be patronising).

Sonic 4 is a good , but ultimately flawed game. There are some excellent design choices, namely the level design and the way most things are laid out. It also looks pretty good and does a nice job at.....well....doing tis job and revoking feelings of the Mega Drive (in terms of aesthetic). Does it perfectly replicate the Classic style? Fuck. No. That is the flaw. It is a weird hodge-podge of classic design choices mangled up with modern design choices, be they accidental or intentional.

The fact is, it plays like a classic version of Sonic Rush, with varying results.

I repeat, this game is not shit. Nobody is saying it is, its just underwhelming as "Sonic the hedgehog 4" Yes its a good game, but it could have been much MUCH better.

Can we move on now? Do we really need to defend or demolish this game any more?

Its out now and people have formed whatever opinions they want about it. At this stage, these opinions will never change. That's it. Leave it be.

Also, as a side note to those who have been complaining about the re-hash-ness:

You do realise that Dimps could have slapped on any old level skin over the current levels and they would have been the exact same.

They could have made Splash Hill look like Lava Reef Zone and Lost Labyrinth look like Death Egg Zone, the overall level design and layouts would have been the same.

Besides, what other type of level can they make. Sonic's been into volcanoes, the ice caps, a carnival, several casinos, a several space stations, evil robotnik base zones etc.

Seriously, there will always be an element of "rehash" no matter what type of level you go with.

If they make a lava level people will say "OMGZ itz a copeh of teh Lva riif zone11!!". Unavoidable I'm afraid.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to Episode II and whatever it brings to the table.

[Drunk Michael Myers]

My brothers thoughts about the PS3 demo:" Two things...why the F does he uncurl, and why do you stop when you jump and releaseing the D-Pad"

Then i showed him Sonic-forum comments. He laughed hard.

[PC the Hedgehog]

I don't understand why Dimps didn't use the Advance physics engine or whatever. It worked perfectly fine :-/ Not that I actually mind all that much, but I think it would've been better and there would be less complaints.

I've been wondering that, myself. The first Advance game, from what I could tell, had practically identical physics to the original games. Of course, it drifted quite a bit with the second and third games, which have engines a bit more similar to Sonic 4.

[Marcello]

Also, as a side note to those who have been complaining about the re-hash-ness:

You do realise that Dimps could have slapped on any old level skin over the current levels and they would have been the exact same.

They could have made Splash Hill look like Lava Reef Zone and Lost Labyrinth look like Death Egg Zone, the overall level design and layouts would have been the same.

Besides, what other type of level can they make. Sonic's been into volcanoes, the ice caps, a carnival, several casinos, a several space stations, evil robotnik base zones etc.

Seriously, there will always be an element of "rehash" no matter what type of level you go with.

If they make a lava level people will say "OMGZ itz a copeh of teh Lva riif zone11!!". Unavoidable I'm afraid.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to Episode II and whatever it brings to the table.

Edited October 12, 2010 by MarcelloF

[Blue Blood]

Oh for fucks sake.

Can we ever stop arguing.

[Vic Boss]

I think this game is pretty good. Granted I've only played the first stage of the PSN demo (about 50 times, mind you), but I've gotten an idea for how it plays.

I agree with Blue Blood regarding everything. It's disappointing to compare it to the classics. It just doesn't quite live up to it's potential and it's very frustrating when you think how much better some elements to the play could have been. Especially when they've had long enough to get it right and enough well educated fans telling them where they want improvements.

But for what it is *ignoring it's a numbered sequel to the best series on the Megadrive/Genesis* it's a pretty good game. Based on it's own merits I think it's a pretty lovely game, but for Sonic the Hedgehog 4... it's not quite there. Dare I say... yet.

Episode 2 will really tell us if they listen at all. Seriously hoping they get it right next time round. They'll never please everyone but they can try harder (not that I think they haven't tried), but there is room to improve. I'll leave it at that.

Edit: Note I'm aware I've only played one level, and each level opens up new experiences and gimmicks and whatever.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Jimmy Kudo

[Tornado]

What kind of logic brought you to that conclusion?

Edited October 12, 2010 by Tornado

[EXshad]

Just got Sonic 4... and I love it! The physics do not bother me at all, in fact, I think they're pretty well-done. The homing attack is also a very welcome edition to the game. The special stages are also quite fun, and even though they're just a twist on the Sonic 1 stages, they feel very new to me. The difficulty is also perfectly balanced. The only thing I didn't like are the over-usage of boost wheels, as it makes a chunk of the level feel too automatic, while also replacing what should be intuitive level designs.

I hope the next episode follows the exact same formula as this one, just with better designed levels, co-op with Tails, and more original enemies/bosses. Then it will be perfect

Edited October 12, 2010 by EXshad

[-Mark-]

Call me crazy, but I'm really not overly fussed about the physics. It's still a fun, well-designed game that works. The game gas been designed around the physics as they are, and there are almost never cases where anything game-breaking happens as a result.

I just had a thought, though. Asuming the Game Center update for the iPhone version supports them, does that make said version the one least likely to suffer from leaderboards full of cheating, hacked or otherwise false times?

[Chili Dawg]

Been playing it a lot since yesterday, and I'm overall very happy with it.

When I first started playing, the physics definately felt wrong. But after a couple of levels I got used to it and they weren't a problem at all.

My biggest fear was the rehashiness factor, but I'm happy to say things weren't bad at all in that area. The environments are riped straight out of the classics with a new paint job, but all the level designs were new enough for me to forget about that, thanks to some fun new gimmicks like the torch and the cards. I do hope for next episoede we get new environments though.

It's alot harder than I expected. Haven't had such an awesomely frustrating final boss in a Sonic game in years. And Special Stage Numero Cinco is really kicking my ass.

I'd probably give it an 8.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Chili Dawg

[DistantJ]

Personally I feel that if this was any other game you guys wouldn't care - what I mean is I think we're annoyed about jumping inertia etc. because the originals had the jump work differently - I don't feel that this style of jump breaks the game at all, lots of games have jumping which works in that way and you'll never hear a complaint about it, just because we're used to Sonic's jump not specifically working that way we get mad, and forget that it doesn't matter and in fact may have been a conscious decision to help you land on a platform you were about to overshoot (could you imagine, with the way the jump works in this one, having to keep steering him back and forward to land on some of the miniature platforms in this thing?) if you play the game properly instead of faffing around and testing the physics and backtracking it rarely even happens. I do feel that the rolling has become a little lame, in that rolling on a curve actually impedes your progress whilst it was a really cool option to let yourself freefall with the gravity and stuff in the old games. I mean it's true, the rolling isn't as good and I totally agree, but if you ask me that doesn't have that much of an effect on the bigger picture and considering how long it's been since rolling momentum (if rolling at all) played a major part in any Sonic game, 2D or otherwise, I don't think it's something which we should be complaining about not being 100%, more of an 'oh well' thing...

I really can't draw a fair opinion on this game yet because it all depends on how I look at it. Should I look at just how fun it is, how well it's made, how well it compares to the classics, how well it compares to recent titles, how good it would be if this was the first Sonic game ever etc... It's difficult.

How fun it is, pretty much. You should judge everything by that. You're not a critic (as far as I know), so all you need to judge something by is if it made you happy, if you had a good time, if it felt like you didn't waste your money.

1. Its a Sonic game.
   
2. Its a 2D Sonic game.
   
3. Its a 2D Sonic game called Sonic 4.
   

Sega could have released a sprite hack of Bubsy II and charged $50 for it and people would have lined up to play it if it fit any one of the above criteria.

Actually I thought he was saying it would make MORE money if it was released later, not in July. I misread it because otherwise it goes against his claim that the game was to make a 'quick buck', if it'd have made just as much money if they hadn't added extra development time surely that's evidence of---oh fuckit this is such bullshit it's not even worth it. Look at this great game! I don't care what they made it for, I'm having fun, and some other people aren't, but for fuck's sake - can't you just say why you personally dislike it, rather than throwing all this 'SEGA are lazy/just in it for a quick buck' rubbish around?

Oh for fucks sake.

Can we ever stop arguing.

I've not been arguing with Blue Blood, I think he's a cool guy and it's nice to contradict each other and debate it, and he'll probably tell you the same about me (I hope), he's not been talking like the people behind the game are some kind of heartless corporation and whatnot, he's just listing what he doesn't like, and I'm trying to tell him why I think he's looking at it from the wrong angle.

[Blue Blood]

How fun it is, pretty much. You should judge everything by that. You're not a critic (as far as I know), so all you need to judge something by is if it made you happy, if you had a good time, if it felt like you didn't waste your money.

Even on just how fun it is it's not that great. But judging it on just that isn't fair. Like I can put 06 in a 360 play for hours and have fun. But does that make it a good game? No. There's more to it than that. I feel the game should be looked at from number of angles, specifically in comparison to the games it's a a direct sequel to. And not being a critic has no bearing on my my opinion works, cause this game certainly doesn't make me happy.

I've not been arguing with Blue Blood, I think he's a cool guy and it's nice to contradict each other and debate it, and he'll probably tell you the same about me (I hope), he's not been talking like the people behind the game are some kind of heartless corporation and whatnot, he's just listing what he doesn't like, and I'm trying to tell him why I think he's looking at it from the wrong angle.

Yeah, it's all good. lol. In fairness though, I do maintain the idea that the people behind this game have treated it without any heart (developers, not the community team). It's just a wonder that the delay actually happened. E2 will be the bringer of good or bad news in that respect.

[Legendary Emerald]

Arg, 6:06 eastern time here in the US and it STILL isn't in the PSN store!

[DistantJ]

Even on just how fun it is it's not that great. But judging it on just that isn't fair. Like I can put 06 in a 360 play for hours and have fun. But does that make it a good game? No.

Interesting different angle again. I mean I've always looked at things as - if I enjoy them, have a good time, they're good in my book... I mean perhaps that's why I differ with other people online about my taste in movies etc. (though sync up more with people who aren't as frequent internet users, strangely, perhaps without the debate there's no reason to question the quality of something if you had a good time with it, I dunno) but I feel that one shouldn't have to really analyse something before deciding if one likes it or not... You know what I mean?

I mean I feel that for example when people go to see a movie and then come out commenting on how much they enjoyed the acting/scripting/camera work/pacing etc. I feel that they didn't get the full experience, they didn't get to switch off and forget they were watching a film, they looked for the scene which causes one to identify with the characters rather than found themselves actually identifying with them and experiencing the literature as intended. Sure, analyse it on repeated viewings, but EXPERIENCE it the first time - and the result of which is that you either enjoyed it or you didn't, it shouldn't be difficult to decide on.

In fact, watch this if you get a moment - it's a short commentary I did and it sums it up nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d34HI-rL-VQ

I feel the same about games - perhaps it's a surprise that Zelda: Ocarina of Time is my favourite game, which is the popular view of the critics and people who tend to look at how well made and original something is before how good a time they have, but for me it's that I experienced something so amazing and got totally lost in the world the game created for me - rather than admiring how well they made it etc. so physics in Sonic 4 - in my opinion - the question isn't in how well realised they are - but in how fun the game is with them. For me personally it's been great fun on my iPhone and I actually like being able to go up and down hills more smoothly without the resistance, and other issues either like the jump inertia haven't been a problem for me or like the wall-standing I have barely even encountered, so to me, it's a good game and it plays well too.

There's more to it than that. I feel the game should be looked at from number of angles, specifically in comparison to the games it's a a direct sequel to. And not being a critic has no bearing on my my opinion works, cause this game certainly doesn't make me happy.

In my opinion then yeah, it's a bad game to you, because it didn't give you a good time, and of course you're right to then explain why it didn't give you a good time - the physics etc., I just feel that a few people (whether you are included or not) wanted to dislike this game from the beginning after seeing those leaked videos, or looked at things a little too objectively and comparatively and therefore spent more time 'testing' the versatility of the game engine etc. than actually playing the game. I sometimes think - if this came out in the 90s when we were kids, in the logical time that Sonic 4 would have appeared if it was going chronologically, would we have even noticed? And if we had, surely it'd be more "the jumping is a bit different in this one", possibly "I don't like the jumping in this one" and not "this game is poorly developed because of the jumping inertia" - I'm not saying we should act like kids, but doesn't it sometimes feel like the magic is gone if you look at everything objectively, analytically?

Edited October 12, 2010 by DistantJ

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Arg, 6:06 eastern time here in the US and it STILL isn't in the PSN store!

You need to calm down. I said this time and time again, the US PSN Store will not update until it's 5pm PDT time! PDT, you know the other end of America like Los Angeles, California?

[blackherox]

So I guess colours is going to better than sonic 4 after all. Heh who knew.

Edited October 12, 2010 by blackherox

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Anyway my impressions on Sonic 4 so far. I only played the demo, so I can't say much. But after playing Splash Hill Zone, I was very impressed on how the gameplay is. Yes the homing attack and the air dash kills it for me, but heck I think I would need to use them for a cheap way out. XD

The other negative thing is that Splash Hill Zone is very very similar to Green Hill Zone. They might as well this stage Green Hill Zone. There isn't really much difference between the two.

The music is quite catchy, playing it on the HD display just makes it look extra awesome. Played it like 30 times now. Can't wait for the US update, enjoy the game and get those trophies! <3

Edited October 12, 2010 by Spicylicious Girl

[Kuzu]

Finally I've got all the Chaos Emeralds, and I've seen the secret ending.

I hate how Special Stage 7 is so damn easy, I didn't have to abuse the restart at all, and the 5th one was the hardest, what the hell.

Anyways, loving good ole game breaking Super Sonic.

[Sean]

Yeah, you know what I said about me not playing this? I lied.

I'm not impressed.

[Blue Blood]

Yeah, you know what I said about me not playing this? I lied.

I'm not impressed.

Not impressed with your will power or the game?

[Sean]

The game's physics are much more horrible than I could have possibly dreamed of. It's not even a matter of being different from the classics, oh no. Sonic Advance had different physics, but they were okay. This... This is a travesty. Sonic controls like a boulder. He feels sluggish, the Spin Dash never takes you far, even when you're spinning through a loop. Honestly, I think I might have to play more of this game first, though. You know, FOR SCIENCE. But I can tell you right now, my hopes aren't taking me far.

[Kuzu]

The game's physics are much more horrible than I could have possibly dreamed of. It's not even a matter of being different from the classics, oh no. Sonic Advance had different physics, but they were okay. This... This is a travesty. Sonic controls like a boulder. He feels sluggish, the Spin Dash never takes you far, even when you're spinning through a loop. Honestly, I think I might have to play more of this game first, though. You know, FOR SCIENCE. But I can tell you right now, my hopes aren't taking me far.

To each is own, I had none of those problems.