Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Dr. Mechano]

I see what Ian's doing, and while I personally like it, I can understand why some longtime fans of the comic continuity wouldn't.

That said, what he's doing is making the Sonic comic more like the games. A more sympathetic Eggman, heroes who regard their villains with a heroic sense of compassion rather than vengeance, and perhaps the biggest setup for this of all- Eggman without a near-global empire.

What happens when Eggman snaps out of his insane state and is no longer an overlord in control of most of the planet? He's left with the option of becoming a mad scientist bent on the (re) conquest of the world, rather than his longstanding role of trying to maintain the conquest he already had. In essence, this seems like Eggman's transition from overlord to comic supervillain, much like his video game counterpart in a sense.

I could be wrong, of course- For all I know Eggman'll return to being an iron-fisted ruler again. But I speculate that the return of Eggman's wits will bring with them some decidedly more game-like attributes. These, of course, I'm all for- Though I understand why you'd oppose them too.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Miko]

[citation needed]

The Statement of Ownership and Circulation printed anually in Sonic comic books have posted cumulative sales for the past 13 years and has noted a considerable decline. Someone's also been compiling the figures on a site:

http://freepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bauerle/circ.htm

So there you go guys. I'll respond to more a bit later.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Miko

[Picchi]

To be fair, Sonic's willingness to kill Julian in issue 50 can be seen as inconsistent as well. In the earlier issue adapting Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic went out of his way to rescue Robotnik, begrudgingly commenting that it's his duty as a hero to save his life even if they're enemies.

Yes, Sonic saved him, but that was also with the intent that he'd have Julian living the rest of his days trapped on Flicky Island.

He did. He screamed (and I think he cried) at Zonic for making him do it.

Technically he only screamed at Zonic for it, but thats not the point. I obviously need to elaborate on what I mean, here. Comparatively speaking, Sonic hasn't lamented over these characters, anywhere near to the extent he has currently for Eggman. Yes he was upset for what he did to Jules, but he quickly got over it by the end. Same with other characters who were offed. Protagonists included.

I was certain he killed Jules on accident anyway.

It doesn't matter whether or not he killed Jules on accident. The fact is, he killed him and quickly moved on. In fact, this makes it an even better comparison. Driving Eggman to insanity was as much of an accident as it was for Sonic to kill Jules in Super Special #12. Did you see him however, continuously brood over what had happened to Jules for a prolonged amount of issues, afterwards? No. And that was his DAD, someone on far better terms with him than Eggman.

[Blazey Firekitty]

How can we be sure that Sonic is over the accidental killing of Alternate Jules?

Just because someone isn't showing anguish, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not there. Given Sonic's ego, he may have been reluctant to tell anyone about it. Case in point: After Eggman has his breakdown, Tails and Amy offer their support, but Sonic gently brushes them off, pretending like he wasn't hurt.

[Ashley Marsh]

*coughs and tilts head* Would some mind explaining what the hoohar you guys are on about for the people not in the know? I only joined at #160, so anything pre #160 draws a bit of a blank with me... *shrugs*

[Blazey Firekitty]

"*coughs and tilts head* Would some mind explaining what the hoohar you guys are on about for the people not in the know? I only joined at #160, so anything pre #160 draws a bit of a blank with me... *shrugs*"

I can see where you're coming from, the Archie comic can get over-complicated.;;

Robotnik's origins in the Archie comic have been kind of a mess ever since he died way back in issue 50. Sega demanded that he be resurrected eventually in some way, so in time, Robotnik returned, gaining his Sonic Adventure appearence in the process.

The problem was...well, instead of simply bringing back the character with a different look, an alternate universe version of the character was brought in while the original remained dead.

Realizing that this would confuse new people, the current editor and writer have taken measures to treat(As much as they can, anyway)the current Robotnik and the original Robotnik as the same character. That's why current Robotnik has the red on black SatAM eyes.

Despite this, Sonic's treatment of his arch-enemy has softened somewhat since the pre-Endgame days. The debate was over whether or not this makes sense. I personally believe it does.

[Dr. Mechano]

That's why current Robotnik has the red on black SatAM eyes.

Though to me this makes NO sense.

The glowing eyes, I always thought, were a byproduct of his partially-roboticized state. Eggman is currently completely organic, so to have glowing (and presumably electronic) eyes instead of normal eyes really doesn't make sense. I get that it's a reference to the painfully off-model design of the comic's past, but it has no logical basis when you consider that Eggman is- to reiterate- completely and utterly organic with no robotic parts whatsoever in his current form, and has been this way since he was permanently transformed into a human by aliens, losing his robotic form.

[Meow]

Its all that time looking at computer screens, I'm sure eventually that has to have taken a toll on his eyes hahaha.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Its all that time looking at computer screens, I'm sure eventually that has to have taken a toll on his eyes hahaha.

Eggman needs drops.XD

Though to me this makes NO sense.The glowing eyes, I always thought, were a byproduct of his partially-roboticized state. Eggman is currently completely organic, so to have glowing (and presumably electronic) eyes instead of normal eyes really doesn't make sense. I get that it's a reference to the painfully off-model design of the comic's past, but it has no logical basis when you consider that Eggman is- to reiterate- completely and utterly organic with no robotic parts whatsoever in his current form, and has been this way since he was permanently transformed into a human by aliens, losing his robotic form.

That's actually a good point-There's no sensible in universe explanation for why his eyes are like that.

Interestingly, though, Ian said something in this old thread that suggests he may explain why Eggman's eyes look robotic at a point in the future.

"Now-now, folks. It's a legitimate question - why would a reportedly fully-organic Overland have such odd eyes?

No, I'm not telling you here."

[The Conductor]

Maybe Eggman is blind? I mean the Bem were reluctant to deroboticize Jules due to his injuries, maybe Eggman's eyes were left robotic for that reason?

[Ashley Marsh]

"*coughs and tilts head* Would some mind explaining what the hoohar you guys are on about for the people not in the know? I only joined at #160, so anything pre #160 draws a bit of a blank with me... *shrugs*"

I can see where you're coming from, the Archie comic can get over-complicated.;;

Robotnik's origins in the Archie comic have been kind of a mess ever since he died way back in issue 50. Sega demanded that he be resurrected eventually in some way, so in time, Robotnik returned, gaining his Sonic Adventure appearence in the process.

The problem was...well, instead of simply bringing back the character with a different look, an alternate universe version of the character was brought in while the original remained dead.

Realizing that this would confuse new people, the current editor and writer have taken measures to treat(As much as they can, anyway)the current Robotnik and the original Robotnik as the same character. That's why current Robotnik has the red on black SatAM eyes.

Despite this, Sonic's treatment of his arch-enemy has softened somewhat since the pre-Endgame days. The debate was over whether or not this makes sense. I personally believe it does.

Okay. What about this thing about Sonic killing his dad? What's that all about?

Over-complicated?! lol I can see what you mean, but there are other, bigger comics that are faaaaaarrrrr worse...

Edited October 10, 2009 by Ashley Marsh

[The Conductor]

Sonic somtimes gets recruited by the Zone Cops (a bunch of cops who hop around dimensions making sure that everything is in balance) and on one of these trips Sonic ended up killing his dad from another universe.

[Miko]

We're talking about the issue where Sonic fights giant monster versions of his friends and family in a giant robot suit, correct? I was certain he killed Jules on accident anyway.

"He said to Zonic though "How'd you know I'd play it through to the end--especially when you knew what I'd have to do to eventually get the emerald?"

meaning Sonic would've done it eventually anyway when he realized he had no other alternative. Anyway this all ignores the fact Sonic was aware that Kodos had lost his sanity in issue 95 just like Eggman and yet Sonic had no problems with Sally killing him off.

How can we be sure that Sonic is over the accidental killing of Alternate Jules?

Just because someone isn't showing anguish, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not there. Given Sonic's ego, he may have been reluctant to tell anyone about it. Case in point: After Eggman has his breakdown, Tails and Amy offer their support, but Sonic gently brushes them off, pretending like he wasn't hurt.

To be fair Sonic's not really that close to Tails and Amy but he did tell Sally though. And it's not as if the FF's haven't been able to accept one another despite killing people before (again Sally with Kodos).As for what ended the issue with Sonic killing his father, I think it was Sonic's talk with "himself" (Zonic). He even said Zonic knew Sonic enough to know he'd ultimately go through with it. Sonic over the years has been far too preocupied with other things to convince me he's still been wallowing after that talk with Zonic. Things that while understandable to ponder would just not be comparable to the weight of guilt that'd come from murdering someone. I mean really not seeing Sally for a few months or the fact you committed murder?

Yes, Sonic saved him [Robotnik], but that was also with the intent that he'd have Julian living the rest of his days trapped on Flicky Island.

Only to learn trying to make for a more peaceful alternative didn't work. If anything history's taught him this wasn't a very good idea, because it's never been effective.

That said, what he's doing is making the Sonic comic more like the games. A more sympathetic Eggman, heroes who regard their villains with a heroic sense of compassion rather than vengeance, and perhaps the biggest setup for this of all- Eggman without a near-global empire.

Again if this comic was never 100% "the games" and even if he was going in that direction, that doesn't excuse the lack of character development from the point he WAS at to the point he is at. Another thing is that Eggman's really not all that more or less sympathetic than Julian. Julian even by around the end of his in-comic development had a few humorous moments as well. But having a goofy humorous side is not going to make his villainy relateable or "sympathetic." Eggman has no motives that make his agenda at all sympathetic. The closest thing we probably have had TO a sympathetic Villain is Dimitri who had his 'noble' intentions revealed or even Lien-da whose antagonisms stem greatly from her inferiority complex towards Julie-su. And even though Shadow acted out at one point for revenge over Maria, at least a basis for his villainy was established. No. Eggman's reason for wanting to dominate others is never explained to any greater extent than Julian's reasons (or lack thereof). Although if his motives were like SatAM Julian's, his racism would probably be the best answer.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Miko

[Dr. Mechano]

Although if his motives were like SatAM Julian's, his racism would probably be the best answer.

He wants to rule over all humans too. So no, I really doubt it's because of any "racist" ideals on Eggman's part- Eggman wants to conquer all people equally.

That said, his motives don't have to be sympathetic for the character himself to be. Archie Eggman does share one thing in common with his game counterpart, and that's the backstory element of his grandfather Professor Gerald being betrayed and killed. Would Eggman have become a psychotic world-conquering madman if this had not happened? It's something to think about, I think.

The guy even tries to create a surrogate "family" for himself in some strange attempt to create a familial bond between him and other consciousnesses, artificial though they were. Although he destroyed them in the end (Under the false belief that M had betrayed him), I think the fact that he tried to emulate some semblance of the concept of family is an interesting side to the character that we never previously saw.

That said, I'll admit this sudden shift is very fast and somewhat haphazard. A more gradual development would have been more satisfying, I agree- But rushed or not, I like the direction they're going with this, and hope they keep it up!

Edited October 10, 2009 by Dr. Mechano

[Miko]

The thing is, Sonic has never seen Robotnik(Any version) in a state like this.

He's seen Kodos like this, and has had no problems causing harm to him (and I mean actually hurting HIM not beating a mech) or seeing him get tossed off a cliff by Sally.

The guy even tries to create a surrogate "family" for himself in some strange attempt to create a familial bond between him and other consciousnesses, artificial though they were. Although he destroyed them in the end (Under the false belief that M had betrayed him), I think the fact that he tried to emulate some semblance of the concept of family is an interesting side to the character that we never previously saw.

That's not exactly something Ian did however. As a matter fact, the whole transition to someone sympathetic in that kind of department was done awhile before Ian came. So it's not something you can really accredit him for starting. Although I will mention that he was the one who more or less killed off Eggman's AI family and had Eggman ditch the idea of family (despite the fact Mecha didn't betray him). His insanity's not really making him all that sympathetic in the way giving him a family may have nor was that even Ian's idea as much as it was Fleetway's.

Heck, I'm not sure if I'd even call that sympathetic as much as, fleshening him out to make him have interests, hopes and dreams (like family). I'm not saying Eggman can't be a sympathetic character either. I just don't think anybody's characterization should be doing cartwheels to make all that possible.

As for Gerald, Eggman's only used him as a means to an end, not sympathizing with any of the problems his grandfather had to endure and has mockingly reffered to the incident with crocodile tears to deceive and use Shadow. As a matter of fact, project Shadow and everything related to the incident was top secret information. So it's highly unlikely that Eggman would have grown up knowing about it.

He wants to rule over all humans too. So no, I really doubt it's because of any "racist" ideals on Eggman's part- Eggman wants to conquer all people equally.

He wants to rule over people but for semi-different reasons. He conisders Mobians as a species inferior in terms of race, and he finds humans to be untrustworthy, intellectually inferior and competitors for social status/resource. In issue 72 it shows Eggman calling Mobians "savages" and "flea bitten furballs" which actually would suggest more that Julian and Eggman both felt the right to dominate a world ruled by Mobians because they (being humans) were superior to these animals. They then turned on the humans when they felt betrayed first. Citing issue 72 again, Megapolis asked all it's intellectuals to make weapons of mass destruction, and in Julian and Eggman's doing so, Colin took the oppourtunity to try imprisoning them for 10 years. Recalling this event Eggman seems to see himself as the victim, calling himself "misunderstood."

Trying to make a family and then discarding the idea when he felt he couldn't control the loyalty of his children shows a sense of trust issues with biological humans stemming as far back as Colin's betrayl (nevermind his son Snively). As for the whole motivation for even wanting to dominate Station Square its just....off the wall. Station Square supposedly had no contact with the outside world but here Gerald (an overlander) is working with them, not to mention the whole thing with GUN being an extension of Station Square. Bigass plotholes indeed.

Both did have issues with control prior to all this but both seemed to follow the philosophy of 'more power gets attained the expense of others'. Even today because we have to compete for a high social status which isn't given to everyone. Acheiving the idea of being at the very top of everyone has been hailed as showing you are a successful human being--the goal to which we should all be striving. In his younger years he even shows this by betraying Nate to take over his position and have more prestiege. He did it to Kodos too when joining the Mobians. I really haven't seen it further than that, and I'm not entirely sure if I need to (I don't believe Gerald was the cause of all this either).

Edited October 10, 2009 by Miko

[Blazey Firekitty]

I'll give you Amy...Amy seems to care deeply about Sonic, but naturally he doesn't entirely return the same feelings.

But I don't understand why you'd say that Sonic's not really that close to Tails. He was present at Tails' birth, and, along with Sally, practically raised him.

In my eyes, at least, not telling Tails and telling Sally was Sonic thinking "I don't want to dump my adult problems on my kid brother, so I'll talk about it with my ex-girlfriend" rather than "I don't care about Tails too much, so I'll go see Sal instead."

Edited October 10, 2009 by BlazeyBakeneko

[Miko]

wrong quote Blazey

[Blazey Firekitty]

wrong quote Blazey

Whoops.^^;; Sorry 'bout that.^^;; Guess the glitchiness of the board is getting to me.^^;;

[Kiljoy]

Whoops.^^;; Sorry 'bout that.^^;; Guess the glitchiness of the board is getting to me.^^;;

LOL good, I thought you were trying to make a point that I just couldn't understand.

[Blazey Firekitty]

LOL good, I thought you were trying to make a point that I just couldn't understand.

Must have gotten my head lost in another plane.XD

But yeah, nice to see Tails getting to do something for the first time in a few months, eh guys?^_~

[nuckles87]

To be fair, Sonic's willingness to kill Julian in issue 50 can be seen as inconsistent as well. In the earlier issue adapting Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic went out of his way to rescue Robotnik, begrudgingly commenting that it's his duty as a hero to save his life even if they're enemies.

Sonic's stance on the value of his arch-foe's life has fluctuated in the comic before, but hopefully this development becomes the consistent one that the series decides to stick with.

As a matter of fact, there was no "willingness to kill" in issue 50 either. Sonic didn't kill Robotnik. They basically beat each other up until the UA activated and killed Eggman. It wasn't Sonic who killed him, it was Snively. Could Sonic have actually killed Robotnik after winning the fight? Considering how many times Sonic has let him go, considering Sonic's track record, and considering the content of the comic, I doubt he would have.

And heck, if he DID, it'd be because Robotnik just killed everyone he ever knew with the UA. That was a one time thing.

[Phos]

Were we ever given a reason why Sonic absolutely has to fight a Robotnik? I get the impression that they made that little point out of a desire to rebel against Sega for making them change it, even though they really should have known that it wasn't acceptable in the long term.

Really, their tendency to do this sort of thing is rather annoying to me, it seems to hint that they wished this comic wasn't related to Sonic.

[vger]

Were we ever given a reason why Sonic absolutely has to fight a Robotnik?

The fact that he's an evil conquering dictator that would kill all the mobians if someone didn't stand up to him isn't enough?

[Agent York]

The fact that he's an evil conquering dictator that would kill all the mobians if someone didn't stand up to him isn't enough?

What he means is according to the Zone Cops, the force that's at a 90 degree angle from all dimensions, is that Sonic NEEDS a Robotnik. Something about balance and though the Robotnik they are fighting right now is not their original Robotnik, he fits the bill.

It has not been fully explained why Sonic Prime NEEDS a Robotnik to fight, but there have been hints and foreshadows spread here and there, I'm sure and some things I read felt like they were hinting at something.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Dusk the Crypt Keeper

[vger]

It has not been fully explained why Sonic Prime NEEDS a Robotnik to fight, butthere have been hints and foreshadows spread here and there, I'm sure and some things I read felt like they were hinting at something.

I'm sure there building to something at some point in the future, an epic final end of the universe battle type thing, should be interesting, possibly Eggman verses Eggman Nega, or even another team up?