Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Indigo Rush]

http://blogs.sega.com/sonic/2009/09/30/ian-flynn-is-full-of-win/

It's official, Ian Flynn is the best ever.

<3

[redmenace]

Nice reference, but the eyes still damage the whole package. They're now swirly, what the hell.

[Indigo Rush]

I don't either, but I think a full-on PINGAS reference balances that out completely.

[Fairfieldfencer]

No one's posted the full preview yet!?!

"On the Run Part One": Bunnie is back, but worse for wear with her wounds being tended in the hospital. Luckily, her friends are by her side... but not for long, as a less-than-lucid Eggman attacks in his Egg-Tortoise walker! Sonic and Tails spring into action, while Iron Queen and crew watch with wide eyes. Why are they so interested in seeing Eggman captured? It's the start of a new pulse-pounding tale guest-starring Nicole, Antoine, Monkey Khan, Espio and more!

PLUS: "Birthright Part One": Now it can be revealed: the long-held secret of the disappearance of Lien-Da's father!

SCRIPTS: Ian Flynn

ART: Steven Butler

SENSES-SHATTERING COVER BY Patrick "Spaz!" Spaziante

Shipping Date: September 30th, 2009

On Sale at Comic Specialty Shops: October 7th, 2009

On Sale on Newsstands: October 20th, 2009

32-page, full color comic

$2.50 US

Edited September 30, 2009 by Fairfieldfencer

[Blazey Firekitty]

http://blogs.sega.com/sonic/2009/09/30/ian-flynn-is-full-of-win/

It's official, Ian Flynn is the best ever.

<3

A youtube poop reference in Archie canon.

This makes me happy. Very happy indeed.:3

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Having gone away to college, it was with some pleasant surprise that I found a Forbidden Planet store in my new locale. Carrying Archie 204, no less. And so it came to pass that today I bought a Sonic comic for the first time since Sonic the Comic ended in 2002.

As such, I don't understand what the shit's going on, but Espio holding Knuckles over the edge of Angel Island by his dreadlocks can be appreciated even in the absence of context.

Also; SNOO-PING AS USUAL!?

[The Conductor]

Having gone away to college, it was with some pleasant surprise that I found a Forbidden Planet store in my new locale. Carrying Archie 204, no less. And so it came to pass that today I bought a Sonic comic for the first time since Sonic the Comic ended in 2002.

As such, I don't understand what the shit's going on, but Espio holding Knuckles over the edge of Angel Island by his dreadlocks can be appreciated even in the absence of context.

Also; SNOO-PING AS USUAL!?

Basically, Espio has descided to be a dick and ditch his BFFs and be a Ninja. So he's pushing Knuckles off of Angel Island.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Basically, Espio has descided to be a dick and ditch his BFFs and be a Ninja. So he's pushing Knuckles off of Angel Island.

Only if Captain Whiskers did it could that course of action possibly be a dickmove.

[Jix Hedgehog]

No one's posted the full preview yet!?!

Thought it was next week! Man the months are flying by.. where the heck did September go? O_O

Picking up tomorrow or Friday

[Greg the Fancat]

Alright then, it's official. SEGA sucks pickles, unlike Archie comics. That was a stroke of freaking brilliance.

You give us anything close to that, SEGA, and you may recieve a medal too.

Edited October 2, 2009 by GREG THE CAT

[slam422]

^I agree with the above statement!^

[Frobman]

A Pingas reference? Now that's just awesome! Just like that "Stealing 40 Cakes" joke in an old Sonic X comic, I see they won't be afraid to add in internet memes for the fun of it.

Edited October 3, 2009 by Frobman

[redmenace]

Alright then, it's official. SEGA sucks pickles, unlike Archie comics. That was a stroke of freaking brilliance.

You give us anything close to that, SEGA, and you may recieve a medal too.

Like adding Dreamcast cameos or chilidogs as Sonic's favourite food and including them in games? This is bashing for the sake of it.

Edited October 3, 2009 by redmenace

[Toby]

A couple of scans, courtesy of Eggplant from Bumbleking.

This one is absolutely hilarious.

[redmenace]

Sonic, you arrogant little twat. There's no need for anything else, just Sonic being his cocky self and being a badass. Everything else are extras we're better without.

And Robotnik of course, and yes, it's funny. What the heck did he say Kintobor for though? Was it ever used besides the anti-universe?

I get the feeling Archie is a bit desperate though. Maybe sales are really down in the dumps and they are shoehorning these references as a last resort.

Edited October 6, 2009 by redmenace

[Toby]

I think it's humorous effect, more than anything else. Eggman's supposed to be nuttier than a barrel of Daffys now, so it works for me.

[Dr. Mechano]

And Robotnik of course, and yes, it's funny. What the heck did he say Kintobor for though? Was it ever used besides the anti-universe?

Because before becoming Robotnik, he was "Julian Kintobor of the House of Ivo." The whole long name speel is a joke about how ridiculously complicated the Archie universe's name(s) for Eggman is.

[Toby]

Not to mention Eggman calling himself Robotnik Mach II during his reappearance in issue #75.

[SchemingMinor]

Oh god. With Robotnik's inane introduction I am suddenly reminded of a formal signature a (Polynesian king, I think) who adopted under his signature for every thing he signed. "I am (insert name here) lord of the mountains, son of (god's name here) ruler of the seas, one who makes the flowers sway in the wind...." ad nausem.

How did they get that issue early is beyond me.

But I noticed that Robotnik has a little make-shift cape out of his discarded strait-jacket.

[nuckles87]

New review from Dan

HEAD: OK, this story hit a major brick wall for me when we

were introduced to Jacque and Belle D'Coolette, the offspring of

Bunnie and Antoine. Hey, another set of twins is something I can

relate to, being a twin myself. I can NOT, however, find any

valid reason for them to take after their mother by having one

bionic arm and one bionic leg each.

Whatever happened to Bunnie when she was partially

roboticized, it simply could not have affected her at the genetic

level which is where and how it would have affected her kids.

I've said repeatedly that science isn't my best event, but I DO

know that Bunnie's bionics fall outside the realm of "acquired

characteristics."

The theory of acquired characteristics has a long history,

going back to Hippocrates and Aristotle. Closer to our own day,

it was championed by Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744-1829), Charles

Darwin (who called his version of it "pangenesis"), and Trofim

Lysenko (1898-1976) who based Stalin-era agricultural policy in

the Soviet Union on it. Basically, it's the theory that "changes

in physiology acquired over the life of an organism (such as the

enlargement of a muscle through repeated use) may purportedly be

transmitted to offspring" [source: Wikipedia].

Which sounds good, but real life just doesn't work that way.

No matter how many changes happen to an organism, they're not

necessarily translated into the necessary genetic changes that

are passed along to succeeding generations. Forgive me if the

discussion gets a little coarse at this point but scientific

understanding demands it. Perhaps the simplest way to disprove

the idea of acquired characteristics is for the men in the

audience to drop their pants.

If there's one procedure that significantly changes the

physiology of the male human organism, it's circumcision. And

after thousands of years of performing the procedure in a variety

of cultures, either shortly after birth or at puberty, you'd

think that pre-circumcised males would have started to show up

somewhere on this planet. But it just hasn't worked out that

way, just as Lysenko's attempts at applying the theory to Soviet

agriculture consistently met with failure (Lysenko's theories

were finally and formally denounced and Mendelian genetics

reinstated in the Soviet scientific establishment in 1964).

All this is by way of saying that THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO

GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER FOR JACQUE AND BELLE TO BE PARTIALLY

ROBOTICIZED JUST BECAUSE THAT FATE BEFELL BUNNIE! Sorry to yell

like that, but no matter how fantastic a story is in its details,

I firmly believe that there's still a need for it to be plausible

... that it still has to play by the rules of its own universe,

no matter how extraordinary that universe may be.

Unfortunately, Ian failed to establish what happened to

bring the kids to this state when by all rights they should have

been born intact. I can understand why he didn't try and work it

into the dialogue: it would have brought the story to a grinding

halt. But dropping them into the middle of this story without an

explanation is not only bad storytelling, it's just plain

offensive. Up until that point, there weren't any serious breaks

with the Sonic continuity per se. Things were a little bent out

of shape, but never too seriously, and that's OK. But this is

way over the line.

And no, I don't believe in doing it because it's "cool."

For the record, I firmly believe that just because something is

cool, whether pirates or ninjas or vampires or space aliens or

whatever, that doesn't automatically justify their putting in an

appearance in the Sonic continuity. They have to make SENSE, and

whatever happened to these two just doesn't make sense. If Ian

needed someone who could fly, I don't understand why he couldn't

have just brought in the original Bunnie to chaperone her

daughter or something. Freedom fighting was never just a

youngster's game.

I kind of felt the same way with Ian's presentation of

"Tikhaos." It seemed a straight-forward transition at the end of

the first Sonic Adventure game, hinted at in the final piece of

artwork during the closing credits: Chaos 0 and Tikal surrounded

by Chao. She had become the Heart of Chaos, as the incantation

(which Ian has repeated to less and less effect each time)

stated: "Chaos is power ... enriched by the heart." This was a

completely satisfactory narrative turn for the game, something

which Archie was unable to do when they tried to adapt the game

for the comic and the result was a monstrous helping of hash.

Part of the blame for that state of affairs, though, rested with

the anal-retentive game developers who refused to spell out what

the game narrative was for the benefit of Archie Comics.

Here, Ian takes the game character development, dumps it in

a blender, and mashes the "Liquefy" button. Perfect Chaos, the

beast whom Sonic has to deal with at the final stage of the game,

now has the same relation to Tikal that the Incredible Hulk has

to Bruce Banner. This is not an improvement.

To be fair, the taking of the castle works very well, with

Ian exploiting the humor of letting the novice Skye take over the

control room by virtue of his being a noob when it comes to

flying. He's easily the most original character in the cast, and

the most likable. The way Melody relates to him also feels

right.

I was seriously disappointed when the previous Team Dark

story arc (SU1-4) ended with the taming of the team members and

their turning into dogs of the military by the final panel, thus

dulling whatever edge they had acquired as the story developed.

Here, even if you're willing to give Ian a pass on Jacque and

Belle, the Tikal-Chaos revisionism threatens to make this story

jump the rails. I'll be more interested in seeing if he can pull

the story out of the dive it's in than in the fate of Mobius.

Head Score: 5.

EYE: Yardley! does great work here, taking advantage of the

cutting back and forth between Argyll's crib and the castle. His

treatment of Tikhaos, however, is a disappointment. And even if

one accepts the plausibility of the bionic limbs of the

D'Coolette kids (which I most emphatically don't), these look

like bad action figure add-ons. Eye Score: 7.

HEART: Up until now, Ian hasn't let himself wander too far

from the story. As a result, the relationships between the

characters were pretty self-evident as were the emotional

subtexts. That, unfortunately, starts to break down here.

The fate of Lien-Da is a case in point. In the first

installment we were able to get a fairly good read on her

animosity toward Sonic and his rule even before some of the

pieces (e.g., Rutan) had fallen into place. Her firing an RPG at

Sonic may have been a shock but it came as no surprise. This was

fleshed out in the following installment in her extended

exposition as she resurrected Shadow, but it was still within the

realm of acceptability.

But then we have Shadow simply dispatching her by snapping

off a device that compensates for some kind of time shift, the

provenance of which has gone unexplained. No sooner does the

reader ask "Wait, what?" than she's out of the picture for good.

I know that this was an expedient way to get rid of her character

without resorting to cold-blooded murder on Shadow's part, but it

was done so summarily that you almost wish he HAD killed her off.

It still would have been in character and wouldn't have put a

hitch in the pacing.

The same problem of pacing and provenance is what makes the

introduction of Belle and Jacque so just plain wrong. Anybody

who knows Bunnie understands how she came by her limbs, but no

explanation whatsoever is given for these two. Frankly it feels

like exploitation. Yet it too is passed over in order to hustle

the story along.

Me, I WANTED to know what happened. Was there a problem in

utero that had to be addressed? If so, how did Bunnie handle it,

especially emotionally? If not, what kind of weird symmetry

dictated that it would literally cost each of these kids an arm

and a leg? And at what age?

These are the kind of questions that come up when dealing

with Heart issues. And despite Ian's masterful handling of the

relationship between the Prower siblings, between Sonic and Sally

and their kids, and even in the tete-a-tete between Lara-Su and

Dimitri in the preceding issue, this just flat out did not work.

Argyll doesn't even factor in; he has a few good lines but is

otherwise a cipher. Still, it's a shame that in a story

apparently as well thought-out in all other respects as this one,

that the readers were more or less clobbered over the head by

Belle and Jacque. Maybe someday Ian will deal with what happened

... if the fanfic writers don't beat him to it. Heart Score: 5.

So much for the "he loves it cause of SonicXSally" theory.

Since I found the final issue of the arc to be lacking, I doubt it'll turn it around for him. Ian made the mistake of leaving the plot to "open". Even if he does intend on revisiting the universe, it won't be for awhile. He should have resolved most of the major outstanding plot lines here, rather then leave so many of them wide open. I think Dan's tift over the Bunnie kids is silly, but it could have been avoided had Ian at some point alluded to how exactly they got those cybernetics. They obviously couldn't have been from mommy.

[Aquaslash]

Holy wall of text Batman!

Looks like he was really steamed about the Cyber kids, and I kind of have to agree with him. Though the sad think is, personally don't think Ian's ever going to address how Bunnie was able to reproduce in the first place. He's definitely shown a desire to stay as far away from biological intricacies of this sort as possible.

Though surely, he HAD to have seen this kind of reaction coming. You can only ask people to suspend disbelief so much

[Illuminous_Orb]

Somebody hasen't been lurking forums enough.

Ian posted on the Something Awful forums that he won't explain how the kids are like that because people will be making a big deal out of it anyway. In the case of Drazen, i'm sure Ian was right about that. XD

Edited October 6, 2009 by Emerl

[Aquaslash]

Ian posted on the Something Awful forums

Well of course I didn't know that. I refuse to touch that place with a 30ft pole =P

Edited October 6, 2009 by Aquaslash

[Illuminous_Orb]

...but, but, but-- that's the place where he got the idea of starting his

;( He also recently just posted that he will be continuing his updates soon!

[Frozen Nitrogen]

But then we have Shadow simply dispatching her by snapping

off a device that compensates for some kind of time shift, the

provenance of which has gone unexplained. No sooner does the

reader ask "Wait, what?" than she's out of the picture for good.

I know that this was an expedient way to get rid of her character

without resorting to cold-blooded murder on Shadow's part, but it

was done so summarily that you almost wish he HAD killed her off.

It still would have been in character and wouldn't have put a

hitch in the pacing.

Not that I've read any Archie other than #204, but isn't this a reference to Chronicles and the Nocturnus warp belts? Even without seeing the comic or understanding the context it sounds pretty blatant to me.