Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Agent York]

If this is what I think... Then this is one of the most genius plot twists I have ever seen.

You know, all the talk earlier how Sonic Prime needs a Robotnik, and how this one fit the bill... What if the insanity is making Robotnik start to merge with different continuities and universes into one. I mean, it was original Metal Robotnik... Who gradually has become more and more different than we first met him, I think he might be... Well, I don't know exactly, but since he's not really from this Universe... Could it all be coming down on him?

[Jix Hedgehog]

Finally got the latest issue.. Eggman finally got back at Sonic... and all he did was

punch him

.. 200 issues in and we learn that Eggman would've been totally happy just to do that..

It was a good story, classic Sonic V Eggman/Robotnik, read through the other story only to realize I'm fed up with the exploding Echidna population.. hope its purely Knuckles in the upcoming SU story

Edited October 9, 2009 by Jix Hedgehog

[The Tenth Doctor]

All this robotnik fan service from the comics makes me want to give them a Prrrrrrromotion! This is an instant buy for me when it's out here. Come on Forbidden Planet, hurry it up!

[Miko]

*facepalms*

Guys...Ian writing Sonic or Eggman or whoever to say a few internet memes doesn't make the whole damned PLOT genius or even the whole damned story. Sonic gyrating around Shadow's tight ass and doing nothing but nipping, mewing and being OOC in a fanfic is not going to be saved by a couple internet memes. Princess Natalie Acorn who is an uber bitch, the half sister of Tails, step sister of Amy rose, the harlot two-timing Sonic and Shadow, and yet treated as the ever kind and pure "messiah" is not going to be saved by Eggman shouting like he's one with the holy ghost "Pingas". If this is the only thing people wind up talking about, this story..hell the whole arc will be a collossal failure. Especially since nevermind how tasteful it is, the majority of the fans won't even get it. It's not going to be so genius if he runs this idea cold and then everyone will eventually have to see how painful using this to mask medicore storytelling is. If the storytelling quality goes up, fine. But this sort of thing shouldn't be the only thing making big buzz. It's almost as bad as when gaia online whored all those 4chan memes for profit.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Miko

[Gatestormer]

Come on Forbidden Planet, hurry it up!

SECONDED TO THE ABSOLUTE OPTIMUM TOP-NOTCH HIGHEST OF HIGH MAX.

A trip to Southampton is in order this weekend I think.

[Dr. Mechano]

(post)

I for one enjoyed the heroes' moral stance on Eggman, from a serious plot perspective. They treat Eggman with compassion, despite his villainy, because they're the good guys. It's a nice break from the more vengeful portrayal of Archie's heroes, I say, and it makes them far more sympathetic in my view.

So I'd say the story arc is already a big success!

[Blazey Firekitty]

I for one enjoyed the heroes' moral stance on Eggman, from a serious plot perspective. They treat Eggman with compassion, despite his villainy, because they're the good guys. It's a nice break from the more vengeful portrayal of Archie's heroes, I say, and it makes them far more sympathetic in my view.

So I'd say the story arc is already a big success!

While I'm starting to get pretty bored with the Iron Queen at the moment, I'll agree that the display of compassion on the part of the heroes is something I like a lot.

I was really amazed that Sonic reacted the way he did, in issue 200, towards(What was basically) Julian Kintobor, the man who had once ruined Sonic's life. I, sadly, can't say I'd have the strength to act that way towards my worst enemy, but it's nice to see someone who can, even if it's a fictional character.

[redmenace]

This is going beyond references, I'm getting the impression that we're literally dealing with Ivo R-R-R-R-R-R-obotnik here.

Well, he was happier and stronger in AOSTH and Sonic X then he was any other Sonic media, so I think it's a good decision for him.

Finally got the latest issue.. Eggman finally got back at Sonic... and all he did was

punch him

.. 200 issues in and we learn that Eggman would've been totally happy just to do that..

It was a good story, classic Sonic V Eggman/Robotnik, read through the other story only to realize I'm fed up with the exploding Echidna population.. hope its purely Knuckles in the upcoming SU story

Uhm, maybe I'll finally like an Archie issue. I'll be damned. I'm sure they'll shoehorn Sally there somehow, they always do. If they don't, then the Archie Sonic series is really in trouble. Win-win situation to me either way.

*facepalms*

Guys...Ian writing Sonic or Eggman or whoever to say a few internet memes doesn't make the whole damned PLOT genius or even the whole damned story. Sonic gyrating around Shadow's tight ass and doing nothing but nipping, mewing and being OOC in a fanfic is not going to be saved by a couple internet memes. Princess Natalie Acorn who is an uber bitch, the half sister of Tails, step sister of Amy rose, the harlot two-timing Sonic and Shadow, and yet treated as the ever kind and pure "messiah" is not going to be saved by Eggman shouting like he's one with the holy ghost "Pingas". If this is the only thing people wind up talking about, this story..hell the whole arc will be a collossal failure. Especially since nevermind how tasteful it is, the majority of the fans won't even get it. It's not going to be so genius if he runs this idea cold and then everyone will eventually have to see how painful using this to mask medicore storytelling is. If the storytelling quality goes up, fine. But this sort of thing shouldn't be the only thing making big buzz. It's almost as bad as when gaia online whored all those 4chan memes for profit.

You're right. It's sad that in 200 issues the writers didn't understand that the comic sells because of Sonic and Eggman, and they're the ones they should be focusing on, not the endless cast of worthless characters no one cares about.

[SchemingMinor]

* goes off on tangent*

Sorry Miko, but you have to know your audience, so go ahead and blow steam at me again from a long-winded reply; I won't care and nor would anyone else.

I agree with the others. After reading this issue I loved the moral undertones taken between Sonic and Robotnik. The memes, you know, Ian didn't have to put them in, but he did, and that is waxing greatly with our inner fanboys. Aside from the fan service, deep down when you strip away the colorful layers and get to the bare bones work, Ian has been doing an excellent job, one that gets the attention of comic reviewers who wouldn't touch the comic before with a ten foot pole, so you must know that he is doing something right even with all of the positive reviews that the comic is receiving.

This doesn't mean that there aren't some things that I agree on, but so far the comic has seen new light and a resurgence in fans internet wide.

[Miko]

I for one enjoyed the heroes' moral stance on Eggman, from a serious plot perspective. They treat Eggman with compassion, despite his villainy, because they're the good guys. It's a nice break from the more vengeful portrayal of Archie's heroes, I say, and it makes them far more sympathetic in my view.

No, it makes them inconsistent. Sonic had no problem "axing" off Julian who according to Ian and Zonic is "essentially the same man" as Eggman. Sonic, who can't even get pass his overwhelming (and very unexplained sense of compassion) is the same character who put a sword to a soilder's neck for killing his uncle. My problem is, that you don't have to refrain from offing Eggman because there's no feelings of retaliation and anger for of all the pain and suffering he's put people through. It'd be silly to think Sonic doesn't have these kinds of feelings, especially since he has a good history of getting that way towards anyone who harms his "family" and "friends." It could've simply been explained that unlike before, Sonic understands such actions towards Eggman would make him very much so like the monsterous villains he fights regularly. This was exactly the philosophy that allowed Sonic to relent against enemies he thought deserved to die for their misdeeds during "Return of the King" . I don't think it makes them more sympathetic than a vengeful person because a vengeful person can make just as righteous a decision by not to killing their enemies, but they don't have to be a bleeding heart for them either. The person whose vengeful is actually the stronger character because they have an obstacle they're overcoming in making the right decision. "vengence" is a feeling (a mix between anger and sadness). How they deal with it to me, is where it counts. I'm not saying he couldn't have a character that wasn't vengeful (like I dunno Tikal), but it's not going to believably be Sonic.

I agree with the others. After reading this issue I loved the moral undertones taken between Sonic and Robotnik. The memes, you know, Ian didn't have to put them in, but he did, and that is waxing greatly with our inner fanboys.

It doesn't make the story itself genius let alone the whole arc. And it feels cheap to add memes without much else in any additional substance. Next time someone wants to write a crappy slash fic I'll let them know to add a Pingas joke (nothing against people who like yaoi but the genre itself in fan circles is notortious of being poorly written, mostly because characters are often portrayed OOC). That'll make it awesome. Got several Mary-Sues in a story? Have Eggman shout Prrrrrooomotion and it's suddenly golden. This is ridiculous.

Aside from the fan service, deep down when you strip away the colorful layers and get to the bare bones work, Ian has been doing an excellent job, one that gets the attention of comic reviewers who wouldn't touch the comic before with a ten foot pole, so you must know that he is doing something right even with all of the positive reviews that the comic is receiving.

And despite all those positive reviews the sales have been in a steady decline since he's got here. I only wonder what Sonic Universe's impact to the book will in thoery bolster the sales of the main one or help to provide a better cumulative sale.

This doesn't mean that there aren't some things that I agree on, but so far the comic has seen new light and a resurgence in fans internet wide.

And to that, I'll just respectfully disagree. With the exception of perhaps his forum. discussion about the comic has become far less active than it used to be. I've been part of the internet fandom a long time and the response to his writing is nowhere near as lively as what I'd used to see.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Miko

[Dr. Mechano]

No, it makes them inconsistent. Sonic had no problem "axing" off Julian who according to Ian and Zonic is "essentially the same man" as Eggman.

Yet Eggman has had far more time to live, and to develop, than did Julian.

The same goes for Sonic.

People aren't set in stone- People grow and change, for better or worse, over time. This isn't inconsistent- It's character development.

[The Conductor]

An besides, look at the two examples you used Miko; Sonic did kill Robotnik-Prime after (from Sonic's point of veiw) he killed the love of his life, taken over his home, framed him and had him sent to prison. As for the soldier; he killed Uncle Chuck the man who Sonic loved more than anything else in the world...

[Blazey Firekitty]

In a way, killing someone could be considered a lesser evil than crushing them psychologically.

I figure Sonic is probably as broken up as he is now because he feels like he committed an accidental act of torture, even if ultimately it was something Eggman brought upon himself. Sonic wanted to stop the villain, not reduce him to a drooling mess.

[Miko]

Yet Eggman has had far more time to live, and to develop, than did Julian.

The same goes for Sonic.

People aren't set in stone- People grow and change, for better or worse, over time. This isn't inconsistent- It's character development.

I understand that. But development means some kind of gradual progression from 1 characteristic to another. Sonic going from a somewhat vengeful but nonetheless noble hero (that doesn't brood and can actually be relatively upbeat) to well... not , and without any real explanation as to why he's going to change isn't really character development. The FFs had no problem pummeling the hell out of Kodos despite the mental damage he'd received due to the toxins in Robotropolis. No one was mad when source infused Sally sent Kodos down that large cliff either when she could've attempted to retaliate in a way that didn't kill him. What with him not being a villain in the right frame of mind and all. But suddenly Eggman not being in his proper frame of mind matters even though like Kodos its exceptionaly clear he's a danger to everyone even in this state. I don't feel there was enough transition between how they'd used to respond, to how they do now.

[Agent York]

I understand that. But development means some kind of gradual progression from 1 characteristic to another. Sonic going from a somewhat vengeful but nonetheless noble hero (that doesn't brood and can actually be relatively upbeat) to well... not , and without any real explanation as to why he's going to change isn't really character development. The FFs had no problem pummeling the hell out of Kodos despite the mental damage he'd received due to the toxins in Robotropolis. No one was mad when source infused Sally sent Kodos down that large cliff either when she could've attempted to retaliate in a way that didn't kill him. What with him not being a villain in the right frame of mind and all. But suddenly Eggman not being in his proper frame of mind matters even though like Kodos its exceptionaly clear he's a danger to everyone even in this state. I don't feel there was enough transition between how they'd used to respond, to how they do now.

To be fair, I kinda' grew up like that too, along with many other people I know. Experiences change us.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I understand that. But development means some kind of gradual progression from 1 characteristic to another. Sonic going from a somewhat vengeful but nonetheless noble hero (that doesn't brood and can actually be relatively upbeat) to well... not , and without any real explanation as to why he's going to change isn't really character development. The FFs had no problem pummeling the hell out of Kodos despite the mental damage he'd received due to the toxins in Robotropolis. No one was mad when source infused Sally sent Kodos down that large cliff either when she could've attempted to retaliate in a way that didn't kill him. What with him not being a villain in the right frame of mind and all. But suddenly Eggman not being in his proper frame of mind matters even though like Kodos its exceptionaly clear he's a danger to everyone even in this state. I don't feel there was enough transition between how they'd used to respond, to how they do now.

Well, to be fair, Eggman's not the sort of character who's going to be doing much damage unless he gets his hands on vehicle of some sort. The Freedom Fighters lock him up pretty easily, perhaps even more easily since there would be no door opening code for Eggman to remember.

[Miko]

To be fair, I kinda' grew up like that too, along with many other people I know. Experiences change us.

Sonic going from a somewhat vengeful but nonetheless noble hero (that doesn't brood and can actually be relatively upbeat) to well... not , and without any real explanation as to why he's going to change isn't really character development.

Without an experience wherein which we see Sonic contemplate and for whatever reason make the transition its not really character development. I'm not saying people can't make transitions, let alone that you couldn't. But Sonic didn't make a transition. He went from one thing and just for no developed reason changed his tune.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Miko

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sonic going from a somewhat vengeful but nonetheless noble hero (that doesn't brood and can actually be relatively upbeat) to well... not , and without any real explanation as to why he's going to change isn't really character development.

Without an experience wherein which we Sonic contemplate and for whatever reason make the transition its not really character development. I'm not saying people can't make transitions, let alone that you couldn't. But Sonic didn't make a transition. He went from one thing and just for no developed reason changed his tune.

The thing is, Sonic has never seen Robotnik(Any version) in a state like this. He was acting seemingly normal during the battle(Taunting Robotnik, savoring his moment of revenge against him)...but then Robotnik pretty much regressed to the level of an infant in a matter of moments. That's got to be a difficult thing to react to, even if Sonic's reaction may not have been entirely realistic. He hasn't had to deal with basically lobotomizing someone before, even if he's been willing to kill before.

[Dr. Mechano]

To be fair, Sonic's willingness to kill Julian in issue 50 can be seen as inconsistent as well. In the earlier issue adapting Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic went out of his way to rescue Robotnik, begrudgingly commenting that it's his duty as a hero to save his life even if they're enemies.

Sonic's stance on the value of his arch-foe's life has fluctuated in the comic before, but hopefully this development becomes the consistent one that the series decides to stick with.

[Aquaslash]

And despite all those positive reviews the sales have been in a steady decline since he's got here. I only wonder what Sonic Universe's impact to the book will in thoery bolster the sales of the main one or help to provide a better cumulative sale.

[citation needed]

[Picchi]

Sonic did kill Robotnik-Prime after (from Sonic's point of veiw) he killed the love of his life, taken over his home, framed him and had him sent to prison.

Even if you wanted to argue that as a rationale, it doesn't change the fact that for the sake of duty, Sonic has repeatedly displayed the capacity to kill/condone the killing of others for the greater good. Another good example of this is when he killed Jules from another zone. Sonic had every opportunity to lament for these actions, but never did. Why is it that he's doing it now?

To be fair, I kinda' grew up like that too, along with many other people I know. Experiences change us.

She's arguing that there was no transition to Sonic having this change of heart. he was the kind of guy, who could kill characters like Julian or in another universe, his father Jules for being the threat, and if he wasn't killing off characters, he condoned it like what happened when Kodos was killed by Sally. Now I could see if it were just Sonic being a little unnerved by someone losing their marbles in front of him, but why is it that he's suddenly brooding over Eggman, someone whose caused him nothing but trouble and then some, when he hasn't even done that for some of the heroes who have died/supposedly to save him and his buds?

[Toby]

He has a psychological need for the Eggman. Remember the last time ol' Ivo wasn't around to play 'Smash the robot'? XD

[The Conductor]

Even if you wanted to argue that as a rationale, it doesn't change the fact that for the sake of duty, Sonic has repeatedly displayed the capacity to kill/condone the killing of others for the greater good. Another good example of this is when he killed Jules from another zone. Sonic had every opportunity to lament for these actions, but never did. Why is it that he's doing it now?

He did. He screamed (and I think he cried) at Zonic for making him do it.

[Toby]

We're talking about the issue where Sonic fights giant monster versions of his friends and family in a giant robot suit, correct? I was certain he killed Jules on accident anyway.

[The Conductor]

That is certainly the issue I am refering too.