Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Chooch]

You seem to be confusing the idea of making things more in line with the game universe and adapting every minor insignificant new detail introduced in the games the second they come out. No one is suggesting that.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Chooch

[DarkLight]

At what point did anyone say that they want to get rid of everything SatAM and make it more like the games again?

 

I think you're just misinterpreting what most have been saying here when they've just been saying the comic's run has indeed been a clutter of a mess to follow and dare to wish for some consistency.

Edited July 15, 2013 by DarkLight

[Nepenthe]

I'm not crying. I said that the comic doesn't actually have to adapt specific games into its framework, specifically in the form of following them or actual adaptations. Considering how wide-reaching the lore is for both to the point that anything could essentially happen in them, I imagine you could deal with new games by saying, "That happened a month ago" and keep it moving.

[Dejablue]

You seem to be confusing the idea of making things more in line with the game universe and adapting every minor insignificant new detail introduced in the games the second they come out. No one is suggesting that.

 

 

Isn't the comic already that once you purge all of Pender's stuff?

At what point did anyone say that they want to get rid of everything SatAM and make it more like the games again?

 

I think you're just misinterpreting what most have been saying here when they've just been saying the comic's run has indeed been a clutter of a mess to follow and dare to wish for some consistency.

 

I never said that. I think you're misinterpreting me.

 

We're all misinterpreting each other!

[Barry the Nomad]

So how would that work in the comic? 

 

 

The World's Collide crossover did just that. We saw Green Hill, and in the same story several other video game universe locations were mentioned: Station Square, Westopolis, Empire City being a few. 

 

It's very easy to create a comic book world which fits all of the locations in the video games. In fact, that is what I was going on about earlier, how much fun it would be to read a comic set in that sort of universe, with the video games acting as the backstory, the future games being opportunities for new characters and locals, as well as better video game adaptations. Redesigned Freedom Fighters would just have to be worked into that world, and I can't see it being very difficult to do such a thing. 

[Celestia]

The comic doesn't need Pender's stuff to be unique as a continuity. I'd argue it doesn't even need the other non-game characters to do that, as long as the stories themselves aren't straight adaptations. In fact, if they are doing an Unleashed adaptation (and really, what else could "dark power seeping from the earth" be?), I imagine Ian'll put a spin on it in some way.

[Chooch]

Isn't the comic already that once you purge all of Pender's stuff?

Kind of? That's why I'm looking forward to it?

 

I'm just not understanding why people keep making Sega out to be the bad guy. I'm totally behind what they're trying to do and I understand why they want to do it.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Chooch

[Dejablue]

Ugh that's what I don't want. Video game adaptions...

[DarkLight]

What's wrong adaptations as long as they don't come by each following arc? They'll more or less deal with it like how Archie Mega Man does it. Have an adaptation followed by a separate original arc. Seems appropriate and inoffensive enough. When did the term for 'adaptation' go from "taking something and changing it up a bit" to "just the same thing with no differences at all?"

 

Then I guess Last Airbender was more faithful than I thought.

Edited July 15, 2013 by DarkLight

[Dejablue]

If they change it up a bit fine. But they changed things up a "bit" in Sonic X and look how that turned out.

 

Sonic X probably ruined the prospects of adaptation for me. I don't really want to pay to read a story I already know 100 times over.

[Chooch]

Ugh that's what I don't want. Video game adaptions...

Well it's not like I want 100% by the book game adaptions either. They're cool maybe as little side things that are a few pages but not anything substantial.

 

You can't make a long lasting comic that way and no one really expects it. If they adapt anything then there will be changes to make them more interesting at the very least. I don't really think that's something you need to worry about at all.

 

If you're expecting adaptions like Sonic X then dare I say you're being rather cynical.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Chooch

[DarkLight]

And like I said, there's always room to do original arcs/side-stories so that we can avoid churning adaptation by adaptation with every arc because nobody here is denying that would indeed get stale.

[Celestia]

I'd actually be really interested in an Unleashed adaptation, especially regarding missed opportunity with the Werehog in regards to character development and stuff. The main criticism against Unleashed's story (other than Chip, anyway) is that the middle is kind of "empty". The comic could potentially fill that void, if that makes any sense.

 

Then again, that's assuming the Werehog shows up. I'd be more than okay with that, but SEGA might veto it. Not saying they shouldn't have the right to make that decision, but yeah.

[Soniman]

Why would Sega veto it? It was their dumb idea in the first place, lol.

[Barry the Nomad]

Ugh that's what I don't want. Video game adaptions...

 

It's not as if Archie would go back and have to tell everything from Sonic 1 through to Lost World. I don't think anybody is asking for that. However, the game stories are so engrained in fan's heads, and they're so important to many characters and locations, that I'd think the best comic universe would have the events of the games act as the backstory. 

 

One of my issues with the Archie Sonic universe is that many video game characters have altered backstories in an attempt to make them fit in with the Archie Sonic universe. Considering the games are the backbone of the franchise, it's pretty weird that the video game characters, locations and situations have to adapt to the Archie Sonic comic universe and not the other way around. As others have said, the comics serve as a way to promote the games. I personally think the comics have veered too far away from the video games and it is about tim for SEGA to take more control of their brand.

 

On the subject of full-on adaptations, I don't know how many of you followed the series in the early 90's, but adaptations used to be huge exciting events. Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic CD, Sonic Blast... these were exciting stories that I remember waiting months to read! Nowadays they're just short little two page promos. It's pretty lame. Had the Archie Sonic universe been a little more in-line with the game universe, they could have given some pretty awesome multi-issue arcs adapting the video game stories and expanding upon them.

And like I said, there's always room to do original arcs/side-stories so that we can avoid churning adaptation by adaptation with every arc because nobody here is denying that would indeed get stale.

Given how infrequent Sonic games are nowadays, there would likely be a two year gap between adaptations of the main series titles. There would be more than enough time to feature original arcs/side-stories. Really, what I'd find most exciting would be sequels to video game plots that never had sequels, or continuations of stories that were never fully resolved.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Barry the Nomad

[Dejablue]

Hmmm in a Hard Reboot I guess Sally would no longer be a princess. When you guys say you don't want to purge all SatAM elements is that like keeping characters in name and appearance only? I mean it took a while but they managed to create backstories for just about everyone.

 

Make Sally the princess of Soleanna! *Dies a little on the inside*

 

Actually Sally would probably be a better character without the princess title.

[Chooch]

An Unleashed adaption is kind of the perfect excuse for everyone imaginable to be involved (which is awesome) and that's exactly what I fucking hate about the actual story we got with Unleashed.

 

The world is blown into fucking pieces but none of the technicolor animals outside of Sonic, Tails and Amy seem to care much about it or bother to show up. G.U.N. doesn't seem to be doing anything about it either even tho' they're the fucking Guardian Units of Nations so Shadow and Rouge get no part.

 

Let's forget Angel Island and the Master Emerald's tie to the Chaos Emeralds, leaving Knuckles out too. That makes a whole lot of fucking sense.

 

Ugh, Unleashed's plot has so much wasted potential. A lot of it is nonsense when you think about it.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Chooch

[Dejablue]

I was really wondering where Knuckles was out of anybody. This was a Chaos Emerald issue. I figured he'd know about these Shrines.

 

What have we been arguing about for the past page and a half? Something we know for a fact is going to happen or something you guys really wish will happen?

Edited July 15, 2013 by Dejablue

[Mauro Fonseca]

The World's Collide crossover did just that. We saw Green Hill, and in the same story several other video game universe locations were mentioned: Station Square, Westopolis, Empire City being a few. 

 

It's very easy to create a comic book world which fits all of the locations in the video games. In fact, that is what I was going on about earlier, how much fun it would be to read a comic set in that sort of universe, with the video games acting as the backstory, the future games being opportunities for new characters and locals, as well as better video game adaptations. Redesigned Freedom Fighters would just have to be worked into that world, and I can't see it being very difficult to do such a thing. 

 

Thing is, you really don't need to erase the backstory to do that.

 

Just have them visit those locations. We didn't need a retcon in order for Oil Ocean to be introduced.

 

I honestly think people are too... spoiled, for a lack of a better word, by DC's various Crisis events, wanting reboots here, reboots there, reboots everywhere. Why not do it the Marvel way, nothing is canon until it is? No need to retcon the Penders bullshit out, just don't mention it again.

[Nepenthe]

In regards to Unleashed, Knuckles barely knows about his own people and admitted at the end of his story in SA1 that he was fine with not knowing. Why would he intrinsically have knowledge about shrines that could've only logically been used once in recorded human history? If anything, you'd think his guardianship duties conflict with him somehow being a treasure hunter anyway. xP

[Barry the Nomad]

Hmmm in a Hard Reboot I guess Sally would no longer be a princess. When you guys say you don't want to purge all SatAM elements is that like keeping characters in name and appearance only? I mean it took a while but they managed to create backstories for just about everyone.

 

Make Sally the princess of Soleanna! *Dies a little on the inside*

 

Actually Sally would probably be a better character without the princess title.

She could still be a princess in a video game universe. Soleanna has their own princess, so it isn't crazy to think an Acorn Kingdom exists somewhere on Sonic's Earth in which Sally is the princess.

Really, several SatAM characters could continue to exist in a video game universe, they'd just not be living on Mobius or be Mobians. I think Mobius and its long, messy history needs to go. I'm refreshing myself on the Archie Sonic Mobius now and holy crap... a future earth in which talking animals exist because of an alien bomb, humans are Overlanders, Station Square being inside a giant cave. All that exists because Archie went one way, SEGA went another, and Archie needed to play catch up. I say scrap Mobius and all that retconning and just establish Earth. It's Earth, humans and animals inhabit it. Simple, and in line with the games.

Thing is, you really don't need to erase the backstory to do that.

 

Just have them visit those locations. We didn't need a retcon in order for Oil Ocean to be introduced.

 

I honestly think people are too... spoiled, for a lack of a better word, by DC's various Crisis events, wanting reboots here, reboots there, reboots everywhere. Why not do it the Marvel way, nothing is canon until it is? No need to retcon the Penders bullshit out, just don't mention it again.

My issue is that they'll still be video game locations nestled in this big ugly Mobius universe. I don't want to tell my brain to stop thinking about Mobius and Overlanders and Xorda bombs for a moment while I read a story that is intentionally pretending to be in the game universe.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Barry the Nomad

[Dejablue]

I know it isn't canon at all but in Sonic Riders Zero Gravity he was reading dead languages. Not sure how he'd be able to do that if there wasn't some pool of knowledge he could draw from while on the island.  I always figured the emerald would speak to him now and again. If Knuckles is going to function as a half decent guardian he needs to know SOMETHING. about ANYTHING.

 

One of the biggest problems with Archie is dat origin of the species.

 

It really would be the correct way to go to just say that humans and anthropomorphic animals have cohabited the planet since day 1. So much easier.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Dejablue

[Celestia]

Why would Sega veto it? It was their dumb idea in the first place, lol.

I seem to recall hearing something about them removing Unleashed from shelves or something, which gives me the impression they're trying to make people forget it on the same level they're trying to forget '06 (Generations aside for obvious reasons).

 

As much as I like the Werehog I don't really blame 'em, but eeeh.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not sure how the transformation would happen, anyway. Eggman will apparently be travelling back to the Death Egg and dealing with G.U.N and Sonic'll probably be busy with other things (as of #254, at least).

 

What have we been arguing about for the past page and a half? Something we know for a fact is going to happen or something you guys really wish will happen?

Technically the Unleashed adaptation is just speculation. Granted Dark Gaia will almost definitely be appearing, but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be an adaptation of Unleashed's story as a whole. It'd be pretty cool, though.

 

Unless you're talking about the whole reboot thing, in which case it's most likely not happening. Though "Countdown to Chaos" is a suspiciously similar title to DC's "Countdown to Final Crisis" ...

[Chooch]

In regards to Unleashed, Knuckles barely knows about his own people and admitted at the end of his story in SA1 that he was fine with not knowing. Why would he intrinsically have knowledge about shrines that could've only logically been used once in recorded human history? If anything, you'd think his guardianship duties conflict with him somehow being a treasure hunter anyway. xP

Because the ruins on Angel Island should carry some sort of knowledge of the ancient world that he is familiar with. It still may not be a lot but it's something. I'd be fine with knowing little too if it was more or less impossible for me to figure out more. This is completely ignoring the simple fact that the Master Emerald has a very explicit tie to the Chaos Emeralds and he should have been involved in Unleashed's plot regardless.

 

Also I made a post years back about Knuckles where stating that I believe his skill as a "treasure hunter" came from him exploring the island for several years before anyone like Sonic or Eggman showed up. If he never bothered to explore the island thoroughly then how would he be able to get ahead of Sonic set traps for him all over Sonic 3 and Knuckles?

Edited July 15, 2013 by Chooch

[Barry the Nomad]

I don't know where the Unleashed adaptation thing is coming from.

 

In 250 they stated one world will survive and one will not. Previews make it pretty clear that MegaMan will return to his world just fine. That leaves Sonic's world (Mobius) being torn apart. Which leaves Sonic and his video game friends stranded in the Sonic video game universe found in World's Collide. At most, we know that the Freedom Fighters are being given drastic redesigns that appear more in line with the video games. 

 

So I'm concluding that Archie is looking to introduce a game universe world with the Freedom Fighters worked in somehow. That's my assumption, and it makes far more sense than a 5 year too late Unleashed adaptation.

 

--

 

On the subject of pulling Unleashed from shelves, that wasn't really the case: http://www.sonicstadium.org/2010/10/sega-removing-poor-and-average-sonic-titles-from-retail/

 

It was removing old titles that performed poorly from retail shelves. Which could apply to Unleashed, but I've seen Unleashed on store shelves recently....

Edited July 15, 2013 by Barry the Nomad