Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[bwrosas]

 

 

 

Did Bunnie grow a ponytail (poofy style?)

[Your Vest Friend]

I really think some of you are putting too much stock into the redesigns and what they mean for the characters. I mean, some of you are implying that the change means that they'll get put in the games, when it's sort of been implied that they've had to be changed in order to simply not get the cull, far from being put into the games. 

[Sparky]

To anyone saying this might not be Dark Gaia/Unleashed "adaptation": THE PLANET IS BREAKING APART. The space-time instability caused by the Genesis Waves has caused Sonic's world to suffer drastic after effects, including the breaking of the planet itself. And when Sonic's world breaks apart, that means Dark Gaia is unleashed.

[Kuzu]

I really think some of you are putting too much stock into the redesigns and what they mean for the characters. I mean, some of you are implying that the change means that they'll get put in the games, when it's sort of been implied that they've had to be changed in order to simply not get the cull, far from being put into the games. 

 

Not so much being put into the games, but rather designed where they fit into the universe of the games if they ever did appear in them. They're still OC's, but feel more in line with what Sonic OC's would  be.

[SteffieMusings]

Looking at the better resolution of the SatAM characters' new designs, I had warmed up to them and like them, except Antoine's. While I don't hate it, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of him not having his trademark coat.

 

While I originally believed we're getting a soft reboot, the "Countdown to Chaos" countdown and the blurb "Your official guide to the all-new Sonic universe" on the upcoming SSSM made me realize that we're getting a reboot after Countdown to Chaos.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Steffie

[Immortheus]

Looking at the better resolution of the SatAM characters' new designs, I had warmed up to them and like them, except Antoine's. While I don't hate it, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of him not having his trademark coat.

 

While I originally believed we're getting a soft reboot, the "Countdown to Chaos" countdown and the blurb "Your official guide to the all-new Sonic universe" on the upcoming SSSM made me realize that we're getting a reboot after Countdown to Chaos.

 

Pretty sure we are still getting a soft reboot--there's too many new elements being introduced that they might as well save for a hard reboot, and "new" could still describe the continuity after a soft reboot.

[SteffieMusings]

Pretty sure we are still getting a soft reboot--there's too many new elements being introduced that they might as well save for a hard reboot, and "new" could still describe the continuity after a soft reboot.

 

Thinking back now about the Genesis arc and the soft reboot afterwards, that's a valid point.

[tenchibr]

This might sound a little off-topic but it sets the stage for my argument that will follow after... Ask yourself this: Is Sonic Chronicles canon or not?

 

Chronicles' story has no hint of Sonic Team's Japanese influence on it whatsoever, although that is not why I don't like that game; I think the music for the most part was a joke and sounded broken, the transitions between combat and exploration were painful, and the plot felt forced as well as characterization - Sonic did not feel like either continuity to me at least.

 

Chronicles would have been a much better pill to swallow if it had the Freedom Fighters on it. In fact, I think it would have benefited the game as a whole - If they had made Sonic Chronicles its own canon, like Metroid Prime is to Samus, and shone the spotlight on the FF, perhaps the game would've been so much better to be warranted a sequel. Replace Knuckles with Antoine, Big with Rotor, Amy with Sally, Rouge with Bunnie, and presto!

 

Now, my suggestion was not to downright take Sonic's game buddies off the game as a whole, but they could've been NPC's and still would've felt better. If having Archie characters in the official game canon is impossible because Japan's Sonic Team would not allow, then have an American game canon for them as long as those games also feel like spin-offs.

 

I don't think FF would work in a Sonic platformer, but as a fighting game, or RPG? It could be done.

[scourgeandfionafan123]

If we are getting a reboot after Countdown to Chaos, will they keep going by increasing the number past 250- or will they start over from Issue 1. 

[Your Vest Friend]

Tenchibr, it would have sold even less than it did. And saying as it did shit in Europe as it was...

[Tani Coyote]

If they touch the Silver saga, dear god I will be pissed. That's one of my favorite story arcs, simply because of how "Shit just got real" the first issue set it up to be. Never mind Enerjak just looks awesome, all regal and overlord of evil.

Maybe I'll pick it up when it comes out.

 

I think Archie Sonic is long overdue for a reboot, or a massive retooling (thats what she said).

I can see your idea working fabulously. I don't think SEGA's that vested in reforming the universe, however, so naturally Archie won't be.

On the other hand these legal issues do give great leeway to restructure the universe. Due to the way common law works, Penders now has favor in any future cases. It's time to dial back his influence a few notches.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't see why its unreasonable to expect the Sonic the Hedgehog comic book series to be like the games, though. Its kind of how it should've been, and would've been if SoA wasn't so loosey-goosey with the source material anyways.

I'd say it's not so much unreasonable than it is not a strong excuse when just about every media out there separate from the games has been completely different from the source material while blending in game elements into its universe.

 

Sonic the Comic

Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog

SatAM

Sonic Underground

Sonic OVA

Sonic X

Archie Comics

 

You name it. And thoughout this franchise's 22 years, the only one that's managed to survive as long as the games was the Archie comics. So when it comes to anything that isn't the games, expecting it to be like the games just doesn't hold any water compared to all the other stuff out there not like the games and one could easily say it's redundant to retell the stories of the games when the games already tell there own stories the closer you make the comics to the games.

 

It being said, I don't mind it having more game elements than originally before so long as that isn't being used as a means to get rid of everything else the other fans actually enjoy the comics for, like the SatAM cast. But I don't have to worry about any of that so long as Ian is at the helm of writing the comic and those over him don't make him get rid of these things.

Edited July 16, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[bwrosas]

 did Bunnie grow a poofy ponytail?

[Mega]

re: the Silver arc

I wouldn't worry about them making edits. I posted earlier that reprints involving Penders characters have been largely untouched as of recently. I think they have it under control.

[goku262002]

I don't see why its unreasonable to expect the Sonic the Hedgehog comic book series to be like the games, though. Its kind of how it should've been, and would've been if SoA wasn't so loosey-goosey with the source material anyways.

I, like Barry, used to like the comics myself and can hold some sympathy for the folk who still like it, but at the same time this comic is just a long running, convoluted mess that doesn't really resemble the series its practically advertising, so I've stopped caring so much for it and mostly just wanted a companion comic for the games.

You know, kind of like how Pokemon Special / Adventures is to the Pokemon series (where the anime would practically be the Sonic X of it all, in comparison). Or a better example, as said below: the Mega Man comics. And those are being made by Archie themselves!

Plus, starting a manga of Sonic would basically be asking for failure in Japan; something sure to be dead in the water on the get-go. Not even to mention that those mini-issues that appear in that monthly thing are very badly done in comparison to the American comics' art and storytelling quality (as of now, I mean).

Dude I started at #186. thats about as convoluted as it got, going knee deep into a comic I didn't understand save for the fact that it was an adaption to a cartoon from 20 years ago. but I learned, I researched, and kept reading until I became a fan of this universe. it wasn't all that hard, wiki whatever I had to and back-read if I wanted to, the comic explained itself sometimes as well. The comic has made it easier for people to adapt since #186, so really its not that much of a Herculean effort to start up on this comic anymore.

It wouldn't be just sold in Japan though, so even if sales would fall there the american base would still more then support that. and its a gag-manga thats why the storytelling and artstyle isn't 100% srsbisness but I can tell that they could take on another artstyle and make it good if they wanted to.

I do tend to like the comic a lot more when it blends to the game verse, like the crossover for instance. Most invested in the book I've been in a looong time, and it only took a cosmic retcon to do so.

So yea, I would not mind a more game orientated universe while keeping its original characters. It'd basically be like the Mega Man comic, which is really how you do an adaption while staying true to the source.

Megaman has more going for it, for starters its franchise its currently going nowhere its been stagnant for 2 years now so it has a solid story to build off of unlike Sonic thats just keeps chuggin along and us adapting more material every few years.

Second, Capcom hasn't been soo nitpicky as SEGA has when it comes to their material making it a more easier for storytelling without an overbearing mother figure overlooking their every move.

Third Megaman started waaaaaaaay later into its franchise, like when it had 9 sequals and tons of alternate universe and sidestorys under its belt Sonic on the other hand started when it only had 2 storys to work with, we had to make up the rest which years and years later lead to this. So of course you can stay true to your game canon when you have soo much to work with.

Glad you like the cross over, but Sonic and the others haven't acted much different then they do normally save from them having scattered memories.

[SuperLink]

I'm really wishing I was able to check my subscription as I've been missing all of the crossover action and I'm just now getting more excited for it. Unfortunately my subscription has never been that reliable, especially when I leave it for a long time, old issues can be thrown out :/ living 7 hours away from the only place you can subscribe is a pain in the arse.

 

I hope next time I check I haven't lost too many issues is all.

[Your Vest Friend]

To be honest, I think that the days of Sonic adaptations in other media being really loose are pretty much over. SEGA basically cared jack shit about brand cohesion back in the 90s, so the different media created then could get away with the changes they made (even the OVA with it's pretty faithful elements had a lot of alterations). Adventure saw brand cohesion get a little more emphasis, and Sonic X was closer than the prior series of cartoons, but still had a lot of differences that marked as entirely different from the games. It seems that, since 2012, SEGA have become adamant about brand cohesion and having everything related in one uniform manner, so Archie Sonic have had to follow suit. I'd basically say that StH#235/SU#38 marks the barrier where SEGA decided this stuff due to several occurrences around that time. 

Edited July 16, 2013 by VEDJ-F

[Chooch]

I'd say it's not so much unreasonable than it is not a strong excuse when just about every media out there separate from the games has been completely different from the source material while blending in game elements into its universe.

That doesn't mean that's how things should be or people are wrong for wanting things not to be that way.

[Mauro Fonseca]

I just don't get how restrictive you have to be to imagine you need a full reboot to bring Archie in line with the games.

 

You want Westopolis? There's Westopolis. There's Green Hill. There's Professor Pickle. "Oh but there's a confusing backstoI DON'T CARE AND THE STORY DOESN'T MENTION IT, SHUT UP. All it takes is introducing the elements. Ian spent years putting the world in such a position that he can, without needing a reboot, just place all the game elements. That's that.

 

And it looks like they got rid of Sally's pants from the first redesign. Now I hope this doesn't an iconic backlash for most fans that may had gotten used to the first design.

 

It looks like that only if you believe the world stops existing when you close your eyes. She's only drawn waist up, how on earth do you know what her pants look like.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That doesn't mean that's how things should be or people are wrong for wanting things not to be that way.

Right, because I totally implied that's how things should be, despite saying later on that bringing in more game elements isn't a bad thing.

 

But that doesn't that make it right for wanting to do away with the other things other fans have enjoyed from it because other groups of fans don't want it to be that way. And it's not like you couldn't bring it in line with the games without washing away the other stuff via a full reboot.

 

Point being, one side is A-Ok with having more game elements alongside their non-game elements, while the other would love to completely do away with all non-game and make it mostly the games making it a zero-sum game that shouldn't be played in the first damn place.

Edited July 17, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[tenchibr]

It seems that, since 2012, SEGA have become adamant about brand cohesion and having everything related in one uniform manner, so Archie Sonic have had to follow suit. I'd basically say that StH#235/SU#38 marks the barrier where SEGA decided this stuff due to several occurrences around that time. 

 

Sonic is SEGA's bread winner, we all know that, and bad publicity against Sonic, be it from game reviews or comic recaps, will hurt SEGA financially. Back in the days, Sonic comics were just a cash-in and Sonic himself was too green; he didn't have this whole universe he does today, and after 20+ years, it was time for SEGA to step in and take control.

 

I agree that a reboot that would kill anything vital to the SatAM experience would be suicide. Keyword being "vital", because I believe with the world transforming, there are characters that could go away altogether.

 

With this reboot, I hope to see King Acorn back to health and King Naugus as well for that matter. What I feel the comic could live without are concepts like Freedom Fighters from other regions. I don't mean to downright kill them off, but they really don't contribute to the narrative like the main FF do or St. John. It's OK to acknowledge them, but the panels can be put to better use with the main cast.

 

My biggest pet peeve with the comic back in the days was always how they would force new characters on stories that you didn't care about, and then shamelessly write at the end "DIDJA LIKE THEM?????????????????? SEND US MAIL TO ASK FOR MORE OF THIS GARBAGE!" I have always hated the begging and I feel if the characters are good, the readers will ask for them on their own.

 

My current pet peeve is how before the cross-over, they would asterisk every single little thing as if 50% of their readers were reading the comic for the first time. We know what happened last month, so if you're going to refer to something, make sure it's at least a year part geez.

 

My point is I really hope this soft-reboot is more than just cosmetic and that they learn from their past.

Edited July 17, 2013 by tenchibr

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

My current pet peeve is how before the cross-over, they would asterisk every single little thing as if 50% of their readers was reading the comic for the first time. We know what happened last month, so if you're going to refer to something, make sure it's at least a year part geez.

May because for all they know, there are readers reading the comic for the first time. And some comic book stores might not hold every other previous issue from the last two months at the given moment. It's a reference so that if you wanted to know more or keep up with things or go even further back to a certain point, they give the exact issue so that the reader can keep it in mind.

[bwrosas]

better version of the sss9 cover preview

[tenchibr]

May because for all they know, there are readers reading the comic for the first time. And some comic book stores might not hold every other previous issue from the last two months at the given moment. It's a reference so that if you wanted to know more or keep up with things or go even further back to a certain point, they give the exact issue so that the reader can keep it in mind.

 

I know what it's for, but they tend to abuse it as of late, not counting the crossover.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm not really seeing the problem with it being abundant since it's good for referencing, but it's whatever...