Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I was cool with Antoine no longer being a coward, although I didn't notice his toupee was gone. That jacket tho, that's just what made it easier to identify Antoine with as much as Bunnie's (gone but back again) cybernetics.

[Soniman]

Uhh, Antione may have coward like tendencies, but he was never a full blown coward since like.....the early comic days. Chalk that up to character development.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Gryo Man

[tenchibr]

I don't miss his jacket at all. To me, Antoine's sword is more memorable in a world where characters usually don't wield weapons.

[Sega DogTagz]

I was cool with Antoine no longer being a coward,

 

As am I. It was a natural progression of his character (and its nice that he isn't 100% hardened at this point too - he's still rather prone to the outbursts or hesitation that he is known for).

 

 

I'm just saying that like those things, the jacket was something we latched on too. Getting rid of it for the sake of aligning his design with the other males isn't much of an issue - I would just expect it to take a second to seep in.

 

When I first saw it, I essentially pulled a double take.

 

 

Who's that badass with the blade?

 

THATS ANTOINE?!

 

 

....

 

 

cool.

 

 

 

I don't miss his jacket at all. To me, Antoine's sword is more memorable in a world where characters usually don't wield weapons.

 

That reminds me, I hope he still has that same ambition for sword collecting. I thought that was a charming notion for him. ^^

Edited July 14, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, him being jacketless will take a while to get used too like everything else. I'm probably still gonna have some minor annoyances of its absence at times tho, because unlike Sally getting new clothes taking away Antoine's was just...I have no earthly idea, but if I were to guess it might just be the nostalgia kicking in.

[Mauro Fonseca]

No, again, I can understand people not liking it or taking time to get used to it, but I'm not getting what's confusing about "they're doing SEGASonic designs, SEGASonic males don't wear clothing". Agree or not with it, it's not a headscratcher.

[Dejablue]

Good thing no-one said anything about rebooting other than the fans, then.

 

Also I don't get why people are baffled as to why Ant is jacketless. People are free to dislike it, sure, but the logic shouldn't be confusing- Sonic male characters wear shoes and gloves, final. No jackets.

 

He also no longer has a toupee, if you'll notice.

 

No it's still clearly there.  It's drawn differently but that style is the same way it's always been.

 

This strict adherence to Sega's style will only bring about more boring as fuck character designs. It's the reason why everybody hated all of the Knuckles recolors.  Are you people insane?  You really think just because Sega males don't wear jackets this then writes in stone the LAW that no male character can ever wear a jacket?

 

Baffled = Dislike.

 

Omg where did this white background behind my sentences come from?!

Edited July 14, 2013 by Dejablue

[Mauro Fonseca]

Look again, he doesn't.

 

He has a stripe the same colour as his muzzle, with two bangs in the same shape of the toupee, roughly. But it's been immensely simplified, and integrated into the head itself.

[Dejablue]

Yeah so they drew it so it doesn't look like a wig any more. That wasn't what I was talking about in the first place.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Did you just call mankind insane for being able to establish patterns?

 

EDIT: Also when I replied you hadn't edited the rest of your post in, so how was I to know it wasn't what you were talking about? Despite what people seem to be thinking, I'm not a wizard :V

Edited July 14, 2013 by Captain Harlock

[Dejablue]

Establishing patters like how every smurf wears a white hat and white pants and that's it. How overwhelmingly creative you are.

[goku262002]

Okay so a group pileup against me, thats fine nothing I haven't handled before.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I'd rather have the two be fought individually just to show how strong they are than do some lame Fusion Dance in all honesty. And the fight worked just fine without it.

Would I have liked to see Treble Boost? Sure, but it's no big deal to me since again, the fight was still satisfying to watch and read. But a Metal Fusion? After what we saw of Metal in SU #50, it'd be a huge waste to make him another support unit for Bass to use. After pretty much being fodder to blow up after each fight he appears in, it was a real breath of fresh air in SU #50 to have a model that utilized and improved what his predecessors failed at and came off as genuinely threatening.

Like I said the fight was fine, I liked it. doesn't mean I wouldn't have not liked to have seen a fusion between Bass and Metal Sonic either. sounded like a neat concept.

And he still blew up, him no longer being fodder to me would mean his current model would have to stick around for a good year or so, if its going to be like having him blow up every 2-3 issues Metal Sonic is in compared to every issue he was in it would just make him fodder that doesn't blow up as much.

 

Yeah, we could have had something. A clusterfuck, namely. It's becoming more likely that in terms of Metal Sonic, SEGA knows better than Ian what the fuck to do.

Like I said it sounded like a neat concept. nothing to jump down my throat about, but then again you've been dominating this thread as of late. just saiyan'...

 

Yeeeah, I don't really like the sound of a fusion, tbh. Plus it'd be a bit silly for that to happen just as tensions are rising between Eggman and Wily.

I happen to like it, you don't. opinions, opinions...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

On a different note, I'm beginning to get really fed up with the minority of Archie Sonic fans blaming every change on SEGA.

 

Yeah, it's okay to disagree with what they decide sometimes, but acting like they should have no say in what is, at the end of the day, their product, is really stretching things.

 

Eh, same here. To hear some people talk, it's like SEGA apparently has no right to have any sort of control over what is literally their most well-known IP.

 

You 2 should go back to the previous pages in this thread (VEDJ-F you should even remember this considering how long you been here) when this was brought up.

My side of this whole thing is that I'm glad SEGA came in and fixed the mess and wrangled the comic back. but now I feel that within the last 2 years they have been really super strict with the comic and havent been giving it ANY breathing room, on top of the whole penders mess it just feels that the comic has been restriced and some storys could've been florished if SEGA wasn't being soo nitpicky about every detail.

Its not like if Ian was given alittle creative freedom that the comic would fly off the handle doubt we will ever see the days of bad storytelling and art ever again.

Edited July 14, 2013 by goku262002

[Kuzu]

So we're arguing design changes now?

[Mauro Fonseca]

It'd fly off the handle regarding Metal Sonic, at least :| harrumph

 

I don't think SEGA's been choking them anything lately, with the exception of the tie-in issues and the INCREDIBLY REASONABLE OBJECTION of "no I don't want Metal Sonic doing that". The comic hasn't had room to breathe, yes, but that's regarding Penders and Archie.

 

@Dejablue- Because SEGA males don't wear jackets, it doesn't mean no male can... unless their whole point was to make them look like SEGA males. And don't pull that Smurf nonsense with me, especially trying to argue that these restrictions are what led to the Knuckles recolours when it's the exact opposite- the ability to say "I need a new Echidna, put a Darth Vader coat on Knuckles" is what ruined designs. Now they're forced to think in shapes and proportions instead.

[Your Vest Friend]

But they haven't intervened on that much. Here's what we know they have been involved in;

 

 

-Video game tie-ins...which is kind of expected. 

-They dealt the family mandate.

-The deal about them not letting Shard be a Metal Sonic.

-Shadow not being in SU#38.

 

Anything else at the moment is either pure speculation (The change from Mobius to Sonic's Comic Adventure, the new FF designs) or simply not their call (The second Echidna purge, the variant covers). 

Edited July 15, 2013 by VEDJ-F

[Dejablue]

I guess none of you really care all that much about Antoine's personality or who he was as a character. His father was like the head of the Acorn military and he was proud of that. He's proud of his military background despite the fact that he was a coward. I thought people could figure out how the jacket is just as much a part of Antoine as his sword is. But nope. Sega keeps everyone naked so he's gotta lose it. Even though I'm pretty sure there isn't a single person at Sega of anywhere who really cares about who Antoine is or if he lives or dies or whatever. None of you seem to get it either. There is more to character design than consistency. Like the jacket was really destroying consistency or anything.

 

I honestly don't think Sega cared though.  I'm guessing its just Ian.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Dejablue

[Mauro Fonseca]

You'll notice I said before I understand if people don't like it. What I don't understand is people saying it makes no sense, when it makes perfect sense- their prerogative is "further consistency".

 

But hey, you're accusing me of not liking one of my favourite characters in the book, so I may as well respond. I find the way you're forcefully reducting his character to a jacket disgusting. There are plenty of reasons he may have felt the need for a change of looks- he felt the way to honor his father was to move on and not get stuck trying to imitate him, after Armand told him how proud he was in his deathbed, for an example. Or maybe Armand'll be retconned to have also worn a sash like this. But no, let's decry everything.

[Dejablue]

I'm not reducing Antoine to his jacket. What part of "its a part of him" did you not get?  You're being irritatingly argumentative on purpose. Because I never insinuated anything you just claimed and you know it.

 

Everything you just said is pretty much just a massive guess about why the jacket is gone. None of which is based in fact. Lets just do an Occam's Razor and say the jacket is gone because none of the video game males wear one. That probably is the true reason. If so I find it shallow.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Dejablue

[Your Vest Friend]

Or maybe flammable jackets belonging to the deceased father and explosions don't mix too well. 

[Mauro Fonseca]

"The jacket is a part of him"

How is that not reductory? Antoine is impossible to function without the jacket is what you're saying. This redesign is bad because Antoine is not allowed to have no jacket, even in the scenario VEDJ-F just explained which is even more obvious.

 

Again, dislike the redesign all you want, my initial peeve was saying it made no sense (it obviously does when you know what their intention is, whether you agree with it or not) and then your accusation I don't care about the character.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Captain Harlock

[goku262002]

It'd fly off the handle regarding Metal Sonic, at least :| harrumph

I don't think SEGA's been choking them anything lately, with the exception of the tie-in issues and the INCREDIBLY REASONABLE OBJECTION of "no I don't want Metal Sonic doing that". The comic hasn't had room to breathe, yes, but that's regarding Penders and Archie.

The tie-in or the Penders mess isn't what I'm talking about. even before the whole issue with penders the comic was getting a feeling of being choked by SEGA's constant nitpicking and changes. protecting property is one thing and I understand that but some of the changes and restrictions they have made are just total WTF, why?!, and BS.

But they haven't intervened on that much. Here's what we know they have been involved in;

-Video game tie-ins...which is kind of expected.

-They dealt the family mandate.

-The deal about them not letting Shard be a Metal Sonic.

-Shadow not being in SU#38.

Anything else at the moment is either pure speculation (The change from Mobius to Sonic's Comic Adventure, the new FF designs) or simply not their call (The second Echidna purge, the variant covers).

Yes thats pretty much stuff thats confirmed for what they have done, but its been heavily impled by artists and Ian alike that it was SEGA's meddling that made/forced those other decisions.

Pender's legal crap? I can understand too, its a better idea to just keep things hidden until we can be sure we can use characters and storys from the past again without that idiot troll coming out of his mancave to claim more of his originalthecharacterdonotsteal bullshit.

[Dejablue]

Harlock I'm just going to ignore you. I didn't say he can't function without the jacket. It's like you're being stupid on purpose.

 

If the jacket was destroyed in the explosion then at least it is a good story driven reason. I will admit that.

[Mauro Fonseca]

You mean you weren't already?

[Nepenthe]

Sega character design isn't limited to just the fact that most male characters don't wear jackets. It's a entire philosophy based on the use of shapes, lines, color coordination, and other rules. Reducing it to just "Sega males don't wear jackets therefore their style is boring" and essentially ignoring the breadth of physiological differences between Charmy (who ironically wears clothing), Sonic, and Big for example is a bigger disservice to the artwork Sega makes as it is for Antoine to lose a piece of clothing. :/

Also:

it's like you're being stupid on purpose.

This is uncalled for. Don't be a douchebag because Harlock disagrees with you, especially over something as innocuous as character design.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Nepenthe

[Dejablue]

He clearly misreads everything that I've said up til now. He seems to think  I'm saying Antoine is the jacket. Like he has limited reading comprehension. I can't tell if he's doing that on purpose. I kind of hope he is.

 

Charmy is probably one of the ugliest characters Sega has ever made though lets just be honest. He's ranking right up there with Chip.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Dejablue