Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Marcello]

Of course it matters. If it wouldn't, SEGA wouldn't care what characters they use. Yet they haven't been allowed to use characters like Nega from SEGA. If SEGA wouldn't want any references to Chronicles, they'd tell Archie they aren't allowed like they have with other things. They obviously are allowed, though.

[Your Vest Friend]

They haven't been allowed to use character like Nega because they weren't certain what they wanted to do with him. When they are, they're allowed, just like they're allowed to use any character that isn't on their blacklist because Archie is such a non-priority. Jazwares, on the other hand, has a lot more boundaries because SEGA doesn't want to make products of certain characters that they themselves don't want to reference or 'can't' (eg Metal Sonic 3.0 of Rivals and the Sonic R characters were rejected, SEGA put it down to not having the permission due to them not being SoJ games).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So Pender's is to blame for why I don't have mah fuckin' Imperator Ix and Shade in major games? Screw you, Penders!

...what? I like those characters.

[ChaosXVI]

Yeah, its primarily because he thinks the whole idea of the Dark Brotherhood was a big ripoff of the Dark Legion...which honestly is the only part of Penders's case that has any weight. But its not even about that anymore. Still I hope there is no permanent damage to Archie and SEGA's relationship, I don't want the comic cancelled because of some stupid legal issue that never needed to happen.

[Aquaslash]

It wouldn't have mattered if they WERE the Dark Legion. They're SEGA's characters, they can use them however they want to. Penders just needs to be served a cold glass of STFU already.

[Mangoaxe5]

I'm starting to think that Penders is trying to destroy the Sonic comic out of jealously. I think that Penders is jealous of the success that the books had under Ian.

Archie Sonic must be doing well seeing as how we have "Sonic Universe" which has outlasted Penders "Knuckles" comic series(32 issues), and is close to surpassing the "Sonic X" comic series(40 issues). Plus there are the "Free Comic Book Day" issues every year.

[bwrosas]

Comparing Vince Russo and Ian Flynn (Text/written version)

You know, back in August of last year I did a 30 min. video when I had the unlimited time limit from YouTube what I did was compared the similarities between two writers head writers that are of two medias, one of those medias was wrestling in the wrestling company known as TNA/Impact wrestling and its head writer at the time Vince Russo and the other media of comic books and more specifically the Sonic The Hedgehog comic books published by Archie comics, whose current head writer is Ian Flynn.

Now the reason I made this comparison was due to the fact that both head writers on an almost constant basis would try to go for shock value, they would try to retell the same storylines from many years ago, as well is try to write in unnecessary plot twists, and more so take some of the most popular and over characters that they have and try to turn them from good guys/babyfaces to bad guys/heels. And from what you would see and hear and even read most of that never made any sense and really didn't go anywhere and seem to basically drag on and on and on when it could have been finished or even left alone a long time ago.

Now you may sit there and ask what this has to do with what's going on in the Sonic comic book? Well I'll tell you exactly what it has to do with what's going on in the comic book.

Back in 2010 and for most of 2011 Vince Russo would constantly do things that didn't make any sense. One example was trying to incorporate the Hall of Fame rings that Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair have gotten during their induction into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2005 and 2008. And Russo tried to do this by having it center around the wrestler known as Abyss. How he did this, was he made it seem that Abyss was getting power from Hulk Hogan's ring to overcome the heels/bad guys up until the summer of that year. Because it was around that time that I guess Vince Russo decided it was time to shock the world by having Abyss turn heel after losing a match. Now what made this make no sense at all and some may disagree was throughout the summer going into October you had Abyss attacking just about everyone in sight even those that later on he would align himself with in October. And to top it all off he kept saying from August of that year that they were coming, and yet to the untrained eye no one knew who they were, but to long-time fans such as myself we knew exactly who they were, but again this is where one of the unnecessary plot twist Russo did came into the picture. And that is when he took one of the most popular and over wrestlers not only in that company, but maybe wrestling in general and in October he turned him into a bad guy/heel and that wrestler was none other than Jeff Hardy.

Now here is where some of the similarities come into play. For the next year or so we kept having this new heel faction known as Immortal being shoved down our throats week in and week out, to the point that when you put on YouTube or you would read one of those dirt sheets, that most of the time you would get a negative review and reaction to the product due to the fact that Vince Russo was rehashing a storyline from 15 years ago, a storyline that when first originally introduced in WCW, became one of the hottest selling and most talked about wrestling storylines in history to the point that it helped WCW win the ratings war and dominate professional wrestling for nearly 2 1/2 years. However with all things that start out new and hot and fresh and original, it to started to slowly cool down and lose its flavor. But to WCW's credit they try to rehash it back in 1999 at the start of that year and at the end of that year, however they soon rediscovered the old saying of if it ain't broke don't fix it and to satisfy those that want to think this way as well, to just let it slowly die and fade away into the sunset.

Now the similarity with Ian Flynn is that he continuously on occasions tries to shock the fan base. There have been times where he has done the things that I mentioned at the beginning here of this typing, were his either succeeded or had it blown up in his face. One similarity between both Russo and Flynn is that they constantly shoved a storyline that really didn't go anywhere and really didn't do much down on throats for nearly a year and a half. With Russo it was the Immortal storyline and faction, with Flynn it was the Iron Dominion storyarc which ran from the final pagel of the 200th issue all the way to essentially 212. And just like with Vince Russo's storyline of the Immortal faction, fans to got tired of Ian Flynn's Iron Dominion storyarc. Now the reason both separate fan bases were growing tired of these storyarcs was because they both had a predictable ending to them, an ending which both fan bases (long-time and even short time) saw coming miles away.

The other similarity is the shock value. Russo did this on a constant basis throughout 2010 and 2011, well not most of the time, but more so then he should have. Now what's funny is the shock value wasn't so shocking because long-time fans and even newer fans pretty much knew what the shock value was going to be and Russo to his credit try to constantly shock us, even to the point that he would take other wrestlers who were good guys/babyfaces who at least were very popular and over with the audience and he tried to turn them heel whenever one of them became the world heavyweight champion and by doing so have them join the Immortal faction. Now the similarity with Ian Flynn is what's going on right now and most importantly with the DEL group in the comics. The shock value as of right now is Princess Sally being turned into a robot and having the villain modifier her with weapons to help him fight the freedom fighters and more specifically Sonic. However many have already pointed out that this just like what I mentioned above with Russo and will probably start to lose its flavor if Ian Flynn doesn't find a way to keep it fresh and new. The other shock value and believe me there are many is a so-called secret service leader becoming a traitor to the kingdom that he served. And that's a similarity that Ian Flynn definitely has in common with Vince Russo and that is constantly and unnecessarily turning good guy characters into bad guy characters basically in Ian's case into traitors. Now some have pointed out that some of the betrayals that Ian Flynn wrote in made some sense while others did not.

The other shock value with Ian Flynn that may be different from anything Vince Russo ever did was Flynn's constant desire to kill off characters for no reason. Now Vince Russo the only similarity to this that he has is when he unnecessarily wrote a wrestler or knockout off television for a while because he wanted to make whoever (storyline wise) took that individual out look strong and unstoppable and also it would be because maybe their contract with the company was up or they have a legitimate injury, those two last ones I can excuse Russo for only if he wrote them to be done perfectly but in this case there have been times when he's failed at it. And the same can be said for Ian Flynn because his constant killing of certain characters in one area takes a meaningful moment that they had in a pervious story that in this case was set in the future and decides to kill them off even if he meant for it to be an emotional moment and sacrifice, and makes that moment in the future not mean anything.

Going back to the shock value of unnecessarily turning good guys bad, Vince Russo has tried to do this twice and evidently from what I saw failed at doing so. His three attempts at this were, Sting in 99, Goldberg in 2000, and recently with Jeff Hardy in October of 2010 and Early-Mid 2011. And the way Russo failed at this, was not matter how much he tried to make them a heel/bad guy and no matter how much heat he try to get on them it just backfired in his face because the fans would still constantly cheer these three every time they came out to the ring. The similarity with Ian Flynn right now is Sally being a robot and Bunnie being returned to normal. The similarity is no matter how much Ian Flynn tries to get us used to , change and modify these characters, to us we never see them as that, to us long-time fans and even newer fans we are used to seeing them as they were and that is why any time you go to a site like the DA or even the FA, you see a majority of fans creating and uploading/sharing their fan art or stories of the characters the way we originally know them as. Heck you can go to Google and type in Princess Sally acorn and Bunnie Rabbot and you will see more artwork and screenshots as well as promotional art along with fan art then you will see with the newer modified designs. Now sure you'll read this and as I've mentioned before in previous postings your sit there and say that the reason for that is because the new designs on the characters have just been introduced and we need to give it time for them to show up more so in fan artwork and such. Yet again though as myself and others will point out to you, that may be true but it seems that the more artwork or fan artwork that gets uploaded and shared at sites like DA, then no matter what, it seems to be countered by more fan artwork and stories of the characters in the original and more recognized designs.

Basically what I'm saying is that no matter how much Vince Russo tried to turn those three wrestlers into bad guys, in the end it backfired in his face. Heck he even tried it with AJ Styles on numerous occasions and again it backfired. And that is why fans like myself and others out there will never be used to seeing Sally as a robot or Bunnie as not being half robotic, because were use to the way they were.

The one thing that I will say in closing that Vince Russo has over Ian Flynn is the fact that even the company itself the very same company Vince Russo works for decided it was time for him to be removed as the head writer, now this doesn't mean he's gone from the company he's just no longer they head creative writer for that company. However there are many that feel Ian Flynn is not that far behind and that he too, like Vince Russo won't lose his job at Archie comics, but instead be removed as the head writer of the Sonic comic books. Because if you're a wrestling fan, and a fan that likes watching TNA/Impact wrestling, you may have notice that the product and even the storylines have gotten better with each passing week. And for many long-time fans and even newer fans of the Sonic comic book they are hoping for possibly a similar change to occur in the near future, however they will hold that judgment till later this month and even into March with 234 and 235.

And that's all I'm going to say in this written version of my video where I talked about and compared the similarities between Vince Russo and Ian Flynn.

Thank you all for reading and God bless.

Comments are Welcomed

Started this writing at 7:45am-9:08am

Comparing Vince Russo and Ian Flynn Text version.rtf

[Komodin]

... Can I please get an abridged version of that?

[Exploder]

^ He could have very easily simply said, "you know, Ian Flynn reminds me of Vince Russo when he wrote for TNA." End.

[turbojet]

Except Vince Russo has an obsession of things on a pole and sexual euphemisms and acronyms.

[Aquaslash]

That sure is some "standing in the middle" you're doing there!

Plus, I liked Iron Dominion *coughtmostlycauseofregina'sfineassbutstillcough*

[bwrosas]

That sure is some "standing in the middle" you're doing there!

Plus, I liked Iron Dominion *coughtmostlycauseofregina'sfineassbutstillcough*

I'm stil am

[Badnik Zero]

Okay so just I got 233 (last week actually, but I just got internet back) and I wanna say that I don't like the character retcon. From a setup perspective Geoff is designed to be an unbelievable prick type of character. He is like the coworker who gives you shit all the time but you have to work with anyways. Geoff doesn't like Sonic at all, but they are on the same side. The payoff for his character comes when for a moment he helps Sonic in his time of need like "Dammit kid you were right", like in Endgame. I would've much preferred it if Geoff was working Naugus for the Kingdom's sake, while outwardly playing the dick like he always does. It's his role and it would've been better than anything the character's ever done. With this retcon though he is not just a prick with good intentions, but an actual traitor to the Kingdom and all around bad guy. A wizard-spy is more exciting, but I prefer the more complex character. I do like the reasoning Ian put to the story though, that King Acorn was actually a fool. He's been pulled this way and that so much by the comic's writers that the only outcome is that he must have been a just plain stupid king. Ian's alluded to this with the earlier Prower revolution and Uncle Beauregard's hints towards a Barony-Acorn dispute. The whole History of the Great War was stupid, I think. Also not enough Kodos this issue.

[kimplix]

yeah talk about sonic the hedgehog comic's, look what i got!

225, 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, 233 and Sonic & knuckles Game adaption (with wrong signature from Ian Flynn)

Not to mention the Sonic Super Special Magazine issue 1 and 2

Edited February 11, 2012 by walterscott380

[Phos]

Okay so just I got 233 (last week actually, but I just got internet back) and I wanna say that I don't like the character retcon. From a setup perspective Geoff is designed to be an unbelievable prick type of character. He is like the coworker who gives you shit all the time but you have to work with anyways. Geoff doesn't like Sonic at all, but they are on the same side. The payoff for his character comes when for a moment he helps Sonic in his time of need like "Dammit kid you were right", like in Endgame. I would've much preferred it if Geoff was working Naugus for the Kingdom's sake, while outwardly playing the dick like he always does. It's his role and it would've been better than anything the character's ever done. With this retcon though he is not just a prick with good intentions, but an actual traitor to the Kingdom and all around bad guy. A wizard-spy is more exciting, but I prefer the more complex character. I do like the reasoning Ian put to the story though, that King Acorn was actually a fool. He's been pulled this way and that so much by the comic's writers that the only outcome is that he must have been a just plain stupid king. Ian's alluded to this with the earlier Prower revolution and Uncle Beauregard's hints towards a Barony-Acorn dispute. The whole History of the Great War was stupid, I think. Also not enough Kodos this issue.

That's how deep this retcon runs? I really don't think it's, shall we say, advisable to screw around with a characters motivations from stories that were written, what, 15 years ago?

[-Mark-]

It's apparently from since he was a kid. So in other words, before he ever showed up in the comic and from the very beginning.

[Badnik Zero]

Yeah, Geoff's dad who was a large inspiration to him had an amulet that let him communicate with Naugus. It's just so convenient that all the time that he was a dick wasn't just because he was a dick, of course not. He was a dick wizard.

Unless this is some large setup by Flynn, and Geoff is a double agent for King Acorn. I think that's how it should be, but I'd be surprised. You could see Max Acorn's refusal to leave town this issue as part of that, but it's a stretch.

Nice seeing Harvey Who though. Wonder if this new group of covert FFs will appear in the Eggman arc.

Also lemme brag I found copies of Sonic #11, 35, 49, 53, 54, and 55 at a local comic shop I didn't know existed. The place was huge and the man had no prices on the comics so he sold them to me for $3 each. Which I'm sure is way under regular value. I've seen some places sell pre-Endgame issues at $7, post-Endgame issues at $5. But issue #11 which is in the comic's first year (first appearance of Evil Sonic aka Scourge) and #49 which is part of Endgame itself are more valuable no? What do you guys think of these prices? You think most of them are bullshit anyways?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Badnikz

[-Mark-]

I noticed the other day that Archie have released a digital-exclusive graphic novel on their iOS app called 'Love Stinks', basically compiling a bunch of stories all to do with the various love triangles, breakups and other such crap that the comic has dealt with in its run.

...seriously, isn't all the romantic bullshit the single element in the comics that's most universally (haha, sally ) hated?

Why do I feel like my IQ just dropped in making this post?

[Chaos Warp]

I noticed the other day that Archie have released a digital-exclusive graphic novel on their iOS app called 'Love Stinks', basically compiling a bunch of stories all to do with the various love triangles, breakups and other such crap that the comic has dealt with in its run.

...seriously, isn't all the romantic bullshit the single element in the comics that's most universally (haha, sally ) hated?

Why do I feel like my IQ just dropped in making this post?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Chaos Warp

[Badnik Zero]

Maybe you realized the obvious but... Valentine's Day?

[-Mark-]

True, but that doesn't excuse the fact that all the love-triangle rubbish is by far the single worst element of the comic. Why they would want to try and flaunt that in a single collection rather than try and sweep it under the rug and pretend it never happened is beyond me, Valentine's Day or not.

[Badnik Zero]

I am honestly so indifferent to the love-triangles, I don't get why people still even complain about it. I mean unless you were reading the comic in those years (I wasn't) why care if 16 or so issues are filled with Mina and Sally's nonsense.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Badnikz

[Neon Zephyr]

Money.

If there's one thing that sells like hotcakes during this time of year, it's rubbish romance. People lap it up from the beginning of February until the 15th. I never got why, but they do.

And, "single worst element" is subjective. I think that the old, overdone love polygons from the 30/40's area up to, say 157ish was terribly done, but now it's nowhere near that bad. Still a mild bit annoying to some/many, I'll admit, but....

I don't use the app stuff, though, so I don't know what "era" they focus on in that. If it's just the stuff from, say, 100-160, yeah, that's a terrible idea to focus on.

[-Mark-]

I was reading it back then. >.> As I said, I originally read from #109-#164. I swear it was more than 16 issues, though.

It wasn't just a case of the love triangle, but the fact that even after Sonic got with and then broke up with Sally, he then proceeded to pimp around with pretty much every other girl in sight for the forseeable future.

EDIT: Zephyr, yeah, I was talking about back then. It's much more scaled back and bearable now, but still.

Edited February 12, 2012 by -Mark-

[Neon Zephyr]

Okay. That I understand. Pimp Sonic was a really terrible idea. I found it utterly annoying, out of character, and rather inapproprate for what was supposed to be an "all-ages"/"children's" comic series.

The initial Mina triangle, I was okay with. It felt sort of natural, at least, and vaguely believable (they're teenagers, after all). But, the love-polygon that followed shortly after...ugh.