Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Kuzu]

Ya know this just proves that everyone of those "fans" just read the book to see Sally, and didn't really care about the actual narrative.

[SchemingMinor]

This is a text version of "Why fans like characters and things the way they are"

And this is a text version of "Me Not Caring."

You can get it for download on Kindle and on audiobook narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Kintobor

[Big Boss (legendsneverdie)]

@Bwrosas: Why did you attach a download of what you just said?

[The future]

Wait, Sally being robotisized is what you're angry about? This is one of the only worthwhile things I've seen done with the character because it substantially changes the dynamic of the conflict between the good guys and Robotnik (foolish as it was to miss the chance to kill Sonic, having mechs Sally is an asset unto itself, and it makes it very hard for Sonic to get Eggman one on one), and unlike a lot of deaths in other comics it isn't for or for the sake of some stupid contrivance or thrown in as cheaply manufactured drama (pick and major event comic from the big 2 for plenty examples of both).

The one thing I like about Archie's Sonic series is that death is death. There is no coming back from it. Tommy Turtle, Nate Morgan, 90% of the Echidnas, and others been killed off and they never come back.

[Sega DogTagz]

The one thing I like about Archie's Sonic series is that death is death. There is no coming back from it. Tommy Turtle, Nate Morgan, 90% of the Echidnas, and others been killed off and they never come back.

Unless your a main character of course.

*cough*Knuckles*cough*Sally*cough*

Edited February 8, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[The future]

Unless your a main character of course.

*cough*Knuckles*cough*Sally*cough*

those were obviously planned from the start since they came back so quick.

[Aquaslash]

I never really saw a point to that. Especially when a story can be set in the afterlife.

[Barry the Nomad]

Man! Why does the cool stuff happen in Universe, while the boring skunk on trial stuff happens in the main series?

I ordered the comics to get the genesis arc, and now I've been getting the post-Genesis stuff until my subscription runs out. Thought it would be fun to see what's been happening in the series (I jumped ship after issue 120), but it hasn't been very exciting. I will say the series is far better than it was when I left it. Hopefully something awesome happens before my sub runs out, so I have a reason to perhaps renew.

[Kuzu]

Unless your a main character of course.

*cough*Knuckles*cough*Sally*cough*

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

To be fair, Sally did actually die, it was just retconned because of Genesis.

Edited February 8, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[turbojet]

The one thing I like about Archie's Sonic series is that death is death. There is no coming back from it. Tommy Turtle, Nate Morgan, 90% of the Echidnas, and others been killed off and they never come back.

Then you would hate the Ultimate Universe of Marvel.

Edit: I'd like to re-iterate that I hate Sally because how she is written and I don't mind her being a fucking robot drone to Eggman. Better characterization than she had before.

Edited February 8, 2012 by turbojet

[dirupti]

Oh boy, I got the first issue of the new Eggman arc!

I've noticed that with the beginning of the Universe series it began with characters in whole different zones or even universes. Now the last two arcs couldn't be understood if you weren't reading the STH because of the way the two comics intersect so closely. I don't particularly dislike this, but it seems counterproductive to what the series was made for to begin with.

I was so excited when I saw all of the grandmasters and their legions. I thought it was a very cool way of rounding up the people who are likely to sooner or later tussle with the protagonists. Perhaps this is his way of inviting a large all out battle between the Freedom Fighters and all of the Legionnaires. Perhaps this is what we can except from the 250th comic.

My thoughts on the Sally debate: I've always liked Sally. Mostly because of the way she was portrayed in the SatAM cartoon. That cartoon stuck with me. I hated it when Sally died. Mostly because it felt like the comic was losing one of the last shreds of its relation to the SatAM cartoon, but now, I hope she gets destroyed and stays that way. I'm so sick of everything going back to a peaceful lifestyle only 20 issues after a big fight. I still love Sally, but Iwant something real that actually is a big game changer in the never-ending fight between Eggman and Sonic

Edited February 8, 2012 by dirupti

[-Mark-]

So, I got issue 233 and Super Special #2 yesterday.

First off, let me just say; damn the art is bad for most of the Super Special. I was actually pretty damn shocked at how ugly the majority of it is. =S I know the art varied quite drastically back when I originally collected the series (109-164), but still. Maybe the relatively good art of more recent issue has spoiled me, but it was a serious shock to the system. Even Steven Butler, who's generally one of their slightly-better artists, had some stuff in Super Special 2 that looked pretty bad.

I wish they didn't remove the individual issue/ story credits. Am I right in thinking Penders wrote the entirety of the Sonic Adventure adaptation? So much of it made me facepalm so badly. I did have the original Sonic Adventure 48-page special years back, but even so. Amy wishing herself older? Station Square being under a mountain with an artificial sky? Seriously, what the hell is this shit? D: Would it really have been that difficult to just say that Station Square etc were on a continent Sonic & Co. had never found before?

So yes, to summarise, Super Special 2 was for the most part hilariously bad both in terms of writing and art and actually kind of makes me appreciate what the comic has become now. Whilst far from great, it's much better than what it used to be.

233 was eh. Not good, not bad. St. John's backstory reeked of blatant retcon, but oh well. I will say that Off Panel almost had me laughing out loud at St. John's expressions though. Jon Gray has a brilliantly hilarious art style and I'm glad he's been doing Off Panel as of late. This month's and the one with Tails Doll both cracked me up.

EDIT: Another thing that bugs the hell out of me going back to Super Special 2 and Penders' writing in general is that god damn, is it just me or does that guy put the emphasis on all the wrong words most of the time? If you actually try putting emphasis on the bolded words, it seems really forced and unnatural. Who the hell even speaks like that?! D:

Or rather, if this line was written by Ken Penders: Who the hell even speaks like that?

Edited February 8, 2012 by -Mark-

[Illuminous_Orb]

They aren't emphesis of someone actually speaking, they are just "key words" that are highlighted. That's why words like Chaos Emerald, Sonic, and important nouns and stuff are bolded. This bothered me because both Karl Bollers and Penders did this and it was extremely jarring to have those types of word balloons for years back when they were still writing.

Also, a little story about the Sonic Adventure adaptation from behind the scenes. The rumor goes that Archie recieved a call from SEGA that they had to adapt the story from their new upcoming game in order to garner intrest from readers. Not much different from what they would normally do now, but the real kicker here was that the only thing Archie recieved from SEGA was a Japanese copy of the game. So Spaz had to play the whole thing, and tried to relay information that he got from his experience.

It's no wonder that the adaptation turned out as bad as it did when the only referential material you have are a bunch of badly mimed '98 3D renders speaking a foreign language.

And if i'm not mistaken, it was Karl Bollers that wrote the adaptation. Ken handled a lot of Knuckles' stuff, though.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Illuminous_Orb

[Arcade Racer CC14]

Also, a little story about the Sonic Adventure adaptation from behind the scenes. The rumor goes that Archie recieved a call from SEGA that they had to adapt the story from their new upcoming game in order to garner intrest from readers. Not much different from what they would normally do now, but the real kicker here was that the only thing Archie recieved from SEGA was a Japanese copy of the game. So Spaz had to play the whole thing, and tried to relay information that he got from his experience.

It's no wonder that the adaptation turned out as bad as it did when the only referential material you have are a bunch of badly mimed '98 3D renders speaking a foreign language.

And all they had to go on for the SA2 adaptation was the trial demo disc.

[turbojet]

First off, let me just say; damn the art is bad for most of the Super Special. I was actually pretty damn shocked at how ugly the majority of it is. =S I know the art varied quite drastically back when I originally collected the series (109-164), but still.

You poor bastard...

[The future]

You poor bastard...

That was the worst time for the comic. By far. Still remember that horrid love triangle nonsense. Thank God Ian Flynn came out with #160 and never looked back.

[Mangoaxe5]

More Ken Penders news.

Archie Files Motion for Summary Judgment in Penders Case

“No rational jury could find in (Penders’s) favor,” says Archie counsel

As was expected, Archie comics has formally submitted a motion for summary judgment in the US District court for the Southern District of New York in the ongoing legal dispute over Ken Penders’s copyright claims to the Sonic comics. The motion was filed Monday, the deadline set by the court for the company to do so.

In the filing, which TSSZ has obtained a copy of, Archie believes it is entitled to summary judgment in its favor on its claims, which include two counts of breach of contract. Archie has also asked the court to rule in the event of summary judgment against Penders’s counterclaims of copyright infringement, which includes three counts of copyright infringement. Archie is also seeking a court order, should the company prevail, for Penders to cancel his registered copyrights in dispute.

“Throughout this litigation, the most that Penders has been able to muster is that he does not recall signing the ACP-Penders Agreements. This does not entitle him to rewrite history,” writes Archie counsel in the filing. “Penders’ lapse in memory in the face of the undisputed record is mere speculation and conjecture at best, and at worst it is a perversion of our judicial system. Conjecture is insufficient to overcome summary judgment. No rational jury could find in his favor on any claim in this case.”

The filing includes a surprise affidavit that could damage Penders’s defense. Former Archie Vice President of Finance for Archie, Ed Spallone, alleges in his remarks that he has executed copies of independent contractor agreements signed by Penders in 1996, and they are attached to the affidavit as exhibits. That’s important as Spallone was the individual within Archie who prepared the work for hire agreement for Penders. It is also important because according to the case’s pre-trial report (which we’ll dive into later this week), Spallone was lined up as a witness for Penders and the defense.

“I know that ACP [Archie Comic Publications] did in fact send these agreements signed by me out to Ken Penders and that ACP did receive these agreements back from Ken Penders, signed by him, several weeks later,” Spallone says in the affidavit.

There are two other noteworthy items in the filing. First, to strengthen its claim with Penders, Archie Comics cites previous precedent in its copyright dispute with the late Dan Decarlo, creator of Josie and the Pussycats, which the same court oversaw when the case was files in 2001.

“The Court concluded that the Contractor’s Agreement controlled the disposition of all claims to ownership of all the works in favor of ACP, and entered judgment in favor of ACP,” reads the filing, referring to an earlier passage that said DeCarlo submitted work to the company before his work for hire agreement was formally executed.

Then there’s this–the blocks of black you see in the image above. They may not appear to be much, but they actually are our first indication of a rift between Archie and Sega over this legal mess. The blocked out material, along with several exhibits missing from the dockets, appear to be redacted from public record via a protection order. In certain areas of the motion and supporting affidavits, it’s easy to see why: material appears protected right before introduced discussion about Sega’s business practices with Archie, and the agreement the two share to produce the Sonic comics in general.

It’s easy to connect the dots, however. The above image, taken from the affidavit of Archie co-CEO Jon Goldwater, begins with this sentence before the protected material begins:

Specificially Ken has damaged the relationship between ACP and Sega.

In the motion itself, before another portion of protected material, lies this statement, in part, which appears to setup problems renewing the comic license with Sega once Penders filed his copyright claims before the end cuts off:

The 1992 license agreement with Sega was renewed repeatedly until 2010. As the agreement between ACP and Sega came up for renewal over the years, they would enter into routine renewals prior to the expiration of the then-current term of the license. [....] However, in 2010, when Penders began filing for registration of his purported rights in the Works, and asserting infringement

We should note this is a motion, not a judgment or a court order. Penders and his legal team have until March 6 to file a response and/or an opposition. Even then, a ruling may not come until much later. A ruling in favor of Archie may not be a slam dunk, either, and should this motion be denied, it may compel Archie to seek settlement terms with Penders. In lieu of that, the case would go to trial. We’ll examine the pre-trial report–and the surprising past contributors to the Sonic comics Penders plans to call if it gets that far–later this week.

Source: http://www.tssznews.com/2012/02/08/archie-files-motion-for-summary-judgment-in-penders-case/

[Aquaslash]

I sure don't like the implications of a damaged relationship between ACP and SEGA. Penders may be ruining everything

[Mangoaxe5]

It's hard to believe that this all started because of Sonic Chronicles.

[Your Vest Friend]

I guess that's why we haven't seen Chronicles references beyond that one in Mario and Sonic Winter.

.

[Marcello]

There's one in one of the Super Sonic Special magazines.

[Your Vest Friend]

I meant in terms of the games, Archie doesn't mean shit when it comes to referencing games within the games.

I mean, Metal Knuckles and Tails Doll were brought in not too long ago!

[Marcello]

It's still a reference in an official SEGA product.

[Your Vest Friend]

But, again, Archie doesn't mean anything when it comes to referencing. The whole thing regarding Jazwares trying to get certain rights proves that much.