Sonic Frontiers Leaks & Spoilers Thread - PLEASE READ OP

[Sonicka]

9 minutes ago, Iko said:

Premise: I don't like the level design that has been shown so far, it's still a straight line with little interaction. There's a bit of fun looking top route/lower route structure at the beginning of that Sky Sanctuary act, but most of the stage is still mobile endless runner level of straight line and lane switching (rail sections). Even with the two routes crossing together, there's still very little substance in them from what's seen in the video.

Besides, I think that the remade level design from past games will be an exclusive of the Green Hill levels. What we have seen of Sky Sanctuary and the highway level doesn't seem to be based off any existing level from the past.

Actually, the Sky Sanctuary cyberspace level that was shown is another section ripped from the midway through the Windmill Isle Daytime level (rather than the tutorial stage which is what Green Hill recycles).

But, that’s not to say we won’t have some original things thrown in as well somewhere. I personally suspect it will be all past levels reskinned, but I suppose until there’s more gameplay or delves into these sections it’s difficult to know without people analysing. 

[KHCast]

It’s seeming like if it’s not a flip of a pre existing modern level, these cyberspace stages are just gonna be slightly (emphasis on slightly) better, but still forces looking, linear boostathons. 

[Sonicka]

7 minutes ago, KHCast said:

It’s seeming like if it’s not a flip of a pre existing modern level, these cyberspace stages are just gonna be slightly (emphasis on slightly) better, but still forces looking, linear boostathons. 

I'll take slightly better Forces over regular Forces mediocrity. 

[Iko]

3 hours ago, Son-icka said:

Actually, the Sky Sanctuary cyberspace level that was shown is another section ripped from the midway through the Windmill Isle Daytime level (rather than the tutorial stage which is what Green Hill recycles).

But, that’s not to say we won’t have some original things thrown in as well somewhere. I personally suspect it will be all past levels reskinned, but I suppose until there’s more gameplay or delves into these sections it’s difficult to know without people analysing. 

I watched the video posted in the other thread and I think it's not really the same level design, it has a couple of similar-feeling moments but it's still quite different.

I think it's unique enough.

[Sonicka]

6 minutes ago, Iko said:

I watched the video posted in the other thread and I think it's not really the same level design, it has a couple of similar-feeling moments but it's still quite different.

I think it's unique enough.

Since my post I've also reviewed the footage... and actually come down on the same side and agree with you here. It could just be another moment (like that brief section for Green Hill in the official trailer) where muscle memory made it feel the same, but it wasn't. 

I suspect we're gunna get instances like that a lot which honestly is ok. I'd rather have the Deja Vu feeling I'm playing Unleashed or Generations than Forces overall for cyberspace. 

[Iko]

5 minutes ago, Son-icka said:

Since my post I've also reviewed the footage... and actually come down on the same side and agree with you here. It could just be another moment (like that brief section for Green Hill in the official trailer) where muscle memory made it feel the same, but it wasn't. 

I suspect we're gunna get instances like that a lot which honestly is ok. I'd rather have the Deja Vu feeling I'm playing Unleashed or Generations than Forces overall for cyberspace. 

Similar level design with different physics and different proportions isn't really the same level design, only a little reference at best (think of the Whomp Fortress in Mario Galaxy 2, it plays nothing like the Mario 64 version). Green Hill being the Windmill Isle tutorial though is real: aside of a couple of minor details, that stage is perfectly identical to the source, and plays almost the same.

Though, I'm starting to think that THIS is what they meant when they said that they learned from Sonic Mania.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, KHCast said:

It’s seeming like if it’s not a flip of a pre existing modern level, these cyberspace stages are just gonna be slightly (emphasis on slightly) better, but still forces looking, linear boostathons. 

Based off the impressions of people who have played the game, it goes beyond that. 

[KHCast]

36 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Based off the impressions of people who have played the game, it goes beyond that. 

Some of those same people have said online “you jump in sky sanctuary, so it’s more involved than forces” and if that’s the kinda distinction we’re making in order to give it frontiers, I can’t say I’m that optimistic 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Just now, KHCast said:

Some of those same people have said online “you jump in sky sanctuary, so it’s more involved than forces” and if that’s the kinda distinction we’re making in order to give it frontiers, I can’t say I’m that optimistic 

There are others who go into more detail though. And given the fleshed out control scheme, I'm certainly optimistic. 

It definitely helps that impressions from players have been overall positive. 

Granted, this particular game might not suit your fancy,  so I wouldn't be too surprised if you turn out to not be interested in it.

[Dr. Mechano]

A certain someone finally has footage from an early-game cutscene!

Spoiler

 

 

Looks great so far. Really intrigued by what he's up to.

 

[azoo]

If there are multiple islands then I really wonder what they're gonna offer as motivation for completing them. You save Amy and assumedly Knuckles on island 1, according to what's being said. Is Tails here too? And if so, who else will Sonic have to save, if anyone?

If the rest of the game past those three is just 'escape the islands' then the game loses a lot of story-momentum really fast. 

[VO.SUPER]

Maybe you progressively are getting the characters out of Cyberspace. Because even when you unlock Amy, she's still technically trapped. That does risk repetitive storytellimg, but it's all i can think of. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I know we've heard something about exploring the culture and history of the islands, and since the chaos emeralds are very important (and Flynn says he knows where they came from), everyone is certain the game will explore that somehow. SAGE in the trailer says something about Sonic's actions leading to a cataclysm or doom of some sort, so maybe something he does (or is guided to do by mysterious voice #2) sets off that chain of events, and the rest of the game is piecing together what exactly happened to get us to this point? Maybe it's some kind of deep lore game? Who knows. Some of the shit we've heard even seems to imply it's some kind of character study.

What I do think would be fun is if the last island is Angel Island, fitting the chaos emerald plot together, though I don't know how that would work with the gameplay setup.

I also have a suspicion that they're called the "Starfall Islands" because the chaos emeralds fell from space. That's their old Archie backstory, after all.

[Razule]

Maybe it's like the Chaos Emeralds. You collect enough memory tokens to save them, they go to the next island, and then you collect even more tokens to save them again. 

[Zaysho]

 

This is a point I've seen mentioned here and there, especially in defense of the cyberspace levels so I wanted to ask and haven't seen much discussion on it (feel free to point me if I missed something): do we know for sure this game has anything to do with Sonic's memories? From what I've seen he wakes up on Starfall Islands, wonders where Tails and Amy are, and in the trailer he clearly recognizes Amy in the cage. We even know there's throwaway lines from other previews where Sonic mentions Chao Gardens, etc.. The cutscene where he rescues and speaks to Amy looked like a normal Sonic and Amy conversation I'd have read in Archie or IDW. Where is everyone even getting the "memory" angle from?

 

[PSI Wind]

8 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

This is a point I've seen mentioned here and there, especially in defense of the cyberspace levels so I wanted to ask and haven't seen much discussion on it (feel free to point me if I missed something): do we know for sure this game has anything to do with Sonic's memories? From what I've seen he wakes up on Starfall Islands, wonders where Tails and Amy are, and in the trailer he clearly recognizes Amy in the cage. We even know there's throwaway lines from other previews where Sonic mentions Chao Gardens, etc.. The cutscene where he rescues and speaks to Amy looked like a normal Sonic and Amy conversation I'd have read in Archie or IDW. Where is everyone even getting the "memory" angle from?

It was part of the 4chan leaks, though at this point if its true, I would say memories are part of the plot, but not Sonic losing his memories. 

[Diogenes]

The collectables you use to free Amy (and presumably Tails and Knuckles) are called memory tokens. I think that and the reused stages (maybe) are the extent of memory-related stuff so far though; feels like some of the early previews may have jumped to some incorrect conclusions.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

10 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

This is a point I've seen mentioned here and there, especially in defense of the cyberspace levels so I wanted to ask and haven't seen much discussion on it (feel free to point me if I missed something): do we know for sure this game has anything to do with Sonic's memories? From what I've seen he wakes up on Starfall Islands, wonders where Tails and Amy are, and in the trailer he clearly recognizes Amy in the cage. We even know there's throwaway lines from other previews where Sonic mentions Chao Gardens, etc.. The cutscene where he rescues and speaks to Amy looked like a normal Sonic and Amy conversation I'd have read in Archie or IDW. Where is everyone even getting the "memory" angle from?

This was something that Iizuka mentioned, regarding those levels being influenced by Sonic's memories.

[Shade Vortex]

Sorry, but... even if that's the case, that's not an excuse. Plot should never come first when designing a non-story-driven game (and I mainly refer to RPGs and games like Heavy Rain, NOT SONIC). The gameplay/design generally comes first and then they come up with the excuse for how it fits together. So conceptually, the idea of reusing assets/design to save time/budget must have come before the story justification of [the Cyberspace stages] being based on Sonic's memories.

And if Sonic Team aren't doing that approach, then they really don't know what they're doing, so proving they did otherwise would actually discredit their capability more than me just being right.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Shade Vortex
Changed the -- to italics to make the original intent of emphasis clearer.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 hours ago, Shade Vortex said:

And if Sonic Team -aren't- doing that approach, then they -really- don't know what they're doing, so proving they did otherwise would actually -discredit their capability more- than me just being right.

What's with all the random dashes in that bout?

[Shade Vortex]

Emphasis. I'm used to typing at places that don't support italics (at least in a convenient to use manner) so I forget to use them around these parts.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Huh. It looked so strange that way.

[ZinogreVolt]

12 hours ago, azoo said:

If there are multiple islands then I really wonder what they're gonna offer as motivation for completing them. You save Amy and assumedly Knuckles on island 1, according to what's being said. Is Tails here too? And if so, who else will Sonic have to save, if anyone?

If the rest of the game past those three is just 'escape the islands' then the game loses a lot of story-momentum really fast. 

I'd assume you learn more about the islands and its history as you go. Sage saying that Sonic is endangering the world and the mystery voice telling him to "tear down the walls between dimensions" says that there's more at play here than just a search and rescue mission.

[Jango]

11 hours ago, Shade Vortex said:

Sorry, but... even if that's the case, that's not an excuse. Plot should never come first when designing a non-story-driven game (and I mainly refer to RPGs and games like Heavy Rain, NOT SONIC). The gameplay/design generally comes first and then they come up with the excuse for how it fits together.

Why can't gameplay/design and story ride together this once? I guess no one here expected Mobius: Become Hedgehog from this franchise, but what's wrong with giving the story more importance than usually? Would I rather not have reused levels? Yes, pretty sure most people would actually. But if they can explain that in a really engaging and interesting way, it could work in Frontiers' favor. But IF these zones are just there for a shallow reason, or no reason at all, just making volume, then I agree there's no excuse really. I want to believe the former, but... It's still Sonic Team...

[Shaddy Zaphod]

The only plot excuse I can imagine is for the stages to gradually become more warped as Sonic's memory is affected somehow, which would be a neat bit of gameplay/story integration and let them change the design up. As it stands right now, maybe they have plot relevance, maybe they don't, it doesn't really matter if it's still boring to play. Ultimately, as optional activities, the most we can call the reused stages is a wasted opportunity for more elaborate ones, and should judge the game on whether it provides a substantial gameplay experience outside of that. Hopefully the reused stages are more than they look, but I'm already looking for more-appealing parts of the game as of now.