Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[StaticMania]

14 minutes ago, LegoFedora said:

They know people wouldn't be able to recognize an original level anyways.

You're right, Sega doesn't know anything.

That's why it keeps working.

[Iko]

When you hit that spring at the end of the city stage, and the game rewards you with a dead end... and it's not clear that you must backtrack, because the goal is not visible and you are left in confusion until you backtrack after a while only because there's nothing else to do... who's the genius who designed a level like this?

[Kuzu]

I actually like the way Sonic seems to control in the open world. Wish the design itself better took advantage of that.

[light-gaia]

40 minutes ago, Iko said:

So this game already looked disappointing, and when you think your expectations were at the lowest, it finds another new way to disappoint you even more.

Not just that, but also, all the content we are finally watching were not supposed to be revealed yet, it was just the usual messing up things on Sega's part.

I find it kinda disgusting how there is absolutely nothing going in those cybespace levels... very few badniks and used as homing attack bridges at best, no level gimmicks; when it's not automation, it's basic platforming on flat platforms, and everything is static, not even a moving platform. Graphics are a little fancier, but this is worse than the Sonic Simulator IMO.

The section ripped from the beginning of Windmill Isle act 2 is the only one which looks a little bit fun so far, and that's not even anything special, it just requires you to do 1 "precision" jump in 3D with another route below.

The only purpose of badnicks in boost gameplay is that: homming attack bridges. It was the same thing on Unleashed and Generations

 

45 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

They're really going in on these EVA references huh

Wow, this boss looks so cool!

[Nuggets]

could go for days about how ridiculous it is that we live in a world where we’re just 1:1 taking stage design from past games (something Forces didn’t even do) and putting them in new old stages (i’m so deeply fucking sick of Green Hill that i would’ve appreciated it more if they just deadass ported Windmill Isle as-is into this game and made it the first stage) - but i’ll leave it at that. not the main draw, ultimately not the biggest part of the game, and i’m sure i’ll have some modicum of fun with them like i did with a couple of the Modern Stages in Forces. Disappointing, lazy (sorry, but it’s true) but whatever.

what I will say is that story-wise and animation wise, this is easily looking like the best stuff we’ve gotten in a decade plus. The animation here is shitting on the weird stiff cutscene direction we’ve been getting from Colors onward. Just the expressive way Sonic moves conveys more care into that aspect than i’ve seen since Unleashed (and honestly, it’s even looking better than that game’s in-game cutscenes) and just from the little bits of dialogue we’ve gotten, it seems more involved and natural than anything Graff and Pontac could dream of. I’m actually excited to see what happens in this game, regardless of how it turns out, and despite some other issues, it feels good to feel that way about a Sonic game again. fingers crossed ig 

[Razule]

We moved from "it doesn't matter if it's old levels as long as there's new level designs" to "who cares if they're reusing level designs, you liked it then so you'll like it now". 

The bar gets lower and lower every year. Even if it's based off of his memories, Sonic Generations literally took place in the past and could've just been 1:1 recreations of its stages but it wasn't. This isn't a historical retelling of the real life of Sonic the Hedgehog, this is a fictional story that they created. 

I get it, the open-zone is the real game, and this is a tiny optional side thing. They're essentially special stages. We overestimated how important they'd be. It's just disappointing that if this is the only part of the game that's going to feature traditional Sonic gameplay, that it's just.. lesser versions of parts of games I could've played instead. It's a good thing that this is just a small part of the game instead of the main event because holy crap.. even if it was only 40$, it would've been the first main Sonic game that I was able to play on release and willingly skipped. I just hope to god that the open zone feels as good to play as people make it sound.

[Starnik]

12 minutes ago, Razule said:

We moved from "it doesn't matter if it's old levels as long as there's new level designs" to "who cares if they're reusing level designs, you liked it then so you'll like it now". 

The bar gets lower and lower every year. Even if it's based off of his memories, Sonic Generations literally took place in the past and could've just been 1:1 recreations of its stages but it wasn't. This isn't a historical retelling of the real life of Sonic the Hedgehog, this is a fictional story that they created. 

I get it, the open-zone is the real game, and this is a tiny optional side thing. They're essentially special stages. We overestimated how important they'd be. It's just disappointing that if this is the only part of the game that's going to feature traditional Sonic gameplay, that it's just.. lesser versions of parts of games I could've played instead. It's a good thing that this is just a small part of the game instead of the main event because holy crap.. even if it was only 40$, it would've been the first main Sonic game that I was able to play on release and willingly skipped. I just hope to god that the open zone feels as good to play as people make it sound.

Your probably better off giving up early. It will hurt less if you just skip the game.

[DaBigJ]

Just because cyberspace isn't "the main draw" or "it's optional" doesn't mean you can excuse it for being a tacked on mess that feels like it's only there because SEGA wants their nostalgic safety bubble while also trying something new. And, quite frankly, I don't buy the idea that it isn't a main draw.

They featured them both in the story trailer and in the Nintendo Direct, they're in the demo, they literally had a fucking embargo on these. 

Whether they say it's optional or not, it's clear that they intend for you to play them, which makes the fact that they're A. Reused Locations (mostly) and B. Potentially Reused Layouts....REALLY fucking pathetic.

"Oh, it's just optional content. Why are you complaining? You're not forced to play them!"

Optional content is still content. It exists, it's in the game, and eventually you are gonna play it out of either curiosity or boredom. It's absolutely valid and fair to critique/complain about the optional content if the optional content is not up to your standards of quality, and I hate to break it to you, but they aren't.

Cyberspace Levels look like rejected Sonic Forces DLC that they decided to duck tape to their new open world game because they didn't want them to go to waste. They feel almost exactly like Forces stages, just with controls that weren't made by a clueless programmer who's never made a 3D game before. At least Sonic can accelerate in Frontiers' stages.

Besides this though, yes, you're right. You aren't forced to play these....if you're going for any% and/or aren't reviewing the game. Reviewers are gonna have to play the stages, because they'll need to mention them in their reviews. Uh oh! If they don't think they're good it could impact the game's score!  Oh, and don't forget the people that'll 100% the game, they'll abso-fucking-lutely have to play every single stage. Multiple times might I add. Remember, there's challenges for them too!

The content is only truly optional for people who are just playing casually, but uh oh, even that's not a guarantee. What if you get bored of the other ways of getting Chaos Emeralds? Guess you'll have to try the Cyberspace levels after all.

In a nutshell, these stages are not protected by the claims anyone makes in defense. They are content within the game, and are valid for critique.

[Sega DogTagz]

I still don't understand how so many people are still blind to it. Most of the levels we've seen in length so far are total retreads. Beat for beat copies of unleashed and gens. 

 

I could care less if they decided to save time and build new stages with the same generations Lego sets. I can understand that. We've seen them be creative with reused assets in the past. 

 

But don't send me back to GHZ to stomp through that same wooden bridge, run through the same mega loop or ride the rail straight up like in Gens. That's insult to injury. 

 

This is little more than coping your homies homework and changing the order of some of the sentences before sliding it over to the teacher. 

No. That's not content I want to see. That's not something we should defend. Maybe it could slide if it was a few here or a little there, but it's entire stages and the majority of what we've seen so far. Worst of all, thanks to the Forces bite size stage model, the copy paste are worse than the originals they steal from. Of your gonna copy, at least give me the whole stage. Dang. 

 

 

 

[Starnik]

It’s a little ironic how the people who hate the game are Sonic fans. I think the game will be fine based on impressions of the demo.

[DaBigJ]

I dunno if anyone posted this yet, I don't remember seeing it but...

Spoiler

 

It appears it was posted. Sorry.

[light-gaia]

I think it's possible to reuse old levels in a positive way. For example, let's imagine the game has enough new levels (at least, in terms of layout), and they decided to add old levels, too, so the game would have even more cyberspace levels.

It seems the cyberspace levels are like the Breath of the Wild shrines. We are probably getting way more levels than games like Forces or Generations, if the story mode is really 30 hours long.

Most people on Gamescon only played about 15 minutes of the game. So, all these levels are only in the beginning of the game.

I'm not saying this is the case. I'm only speculating. But if they do that, I think it would be a smart way of increasing the amount of levels available. The city level clearly has a new layout. So, we have some evidence that this could be the case.

I'm personally not a fan of reusing level theming and layouts.

I think I'm excited for Frontiers now because Sega confirmed the game will have 5 islands, so there is a good amount of new content. And my biggest concern was if Frontiers would have enough environment variety because this is one of my biggest issues with Forces.

The reused theming in the cyberspace it's a small issue (for me) because of that, but it's still an issue. If they really add enough new layouts and even new aesthetics mixed with some old layouts and aesthics, it could be positive

[Soniman]

7 minutes ago, Starnik said:

It’s a little ironic how the people who hate the game are Sonic fans. I think the game will be fine based on impressions of the demo.

I’ve seen plenty of fans who have and haven’t played it be positive themselves, don’t take this one corner of the sonic fandom as representation as a whole 

[McGroose]

Has anyone mentioned this yet?

The homing attack in the cyberspace stages seems to have a long pause in between each target. This is completely unnecessary. In SA1 and SA2, you could spam the homing attack between enemies super fast and that kept the flow going smoothly. The delay between hitting enemies was increased at least slightly in Sonic Unleashed and onward. Now the delay is significantly longer. I think this is what I'm annoyed with the most. I can tolerate reused level layouts for the most part, but why did they need to dumb down the gameplay even more? 

This may be irrelevant to some who are more focused on seemingly more important issues, but I feel like it really slows down the pacing of the levels needlessly. Maybe it's an optional thing you can toggle in the menu? If not, then whenever this is released on PC, I really hope modders fix this back to the faster homing attack.

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, McGroose said:

The homing attack in the cyberspace stages seems to have a long pause in between each target.

Yes, it's been mentioned.

It's hit-stop to give attacks more weight.

It's annoying because enemies die in one hit in cyberspace levels.

The worst part about it is that they can make those enemies like the balloons where this doesn't happen.

[Wraith]

1 hour ago, The Deleter said:

I remember when people were using "they're not 1-to-1 copies of past level design" as worst-case-scenario strawman arguments towards people who were weary of just the level themes of Generations being used. It was only a few months ago after all.

The fact that we actually live in a reality where it's the actual situation is something else, wow. 

Every time some part of the game gets scrutinized the defenders try to shift the discussion elsewhere. Before, the argument was that the cyberspace stages would make up for the bland overworld and combat. Now the argument is that the open world was the meat all along so the cyberspace stages being disappointing is a minor issue. 

[light-gaia]

1 hour ago, LegoFedora said:

Definitely original level. People are comparing it to speed highway or radical highway despite there being next to no similarities except that they both have roads in them. The reaction to this level is making me realize why Sonic Team keeps reusing level themes. They know people wouldn't be able to recognize an original level anyways.

Definitely a new zone with the multiple highways with zooming vehicles/white color scheme in the background and foreground.

I hope you are right. However, the Chemical Plant Zone seems to have new assets, even though it's the same layout. Maybe this is Speed Highway, but with new assets as well

[azoo]

If the cyberspaces remain as boring to look at and uninspired in layout as they are all the way through, this game's gonna remain under high scrutiny from me. But the main open world stuff admittedly doesn't look as bad as I thought, considering that Twitter playthrough where he's drop-dashing everywhere.

..But that also could just be the shock of seeing modern Sonic in 2022 roll in a ball on the ground.

[DaBigJ]

3 minutes ago, azoo said:

..But that also could just be the shock of seeing modern Sonic in 2022 roll in a ball on the ground.

Does he have any momentum physics or is it just visual?

[mudhtt]

3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Every time some part of the game gets scrutinized the defenders try to shift the discussion elsewhere. Before, the argument was that the cyberspace stages would make up for the bland overworld and combat. Now the argument is that the open world was the meat all along so the cyberspace stages being disappointing is a minor issue. 

And also…

 *Older levels are returning*
 "Stop complaining guys it’s just Sonic’s memories so of course they’re reusing stages! And besides they won’t reuse the same level design"

*Tutorial stage is 1:1 with Unleashed’s tutorial* 

"It’s just the tutorial who cares! They aren’t going to do it for all the stages"

*Multiple stages got older level design*
"It’s not a big deal, cyberspace don’t matter…"

 

I’m also tired of being told that basic fucking expectations like having new levels in a new game is me being unreasonable/expecting a perfect game lol (but that’s mostly a Twitter thing)

[Starnik]

Just now, mudhtt said:

And also…

 *Older levels are returning*
 "Stop complaining guys it’s just Sonic’s memories so of course they’re reusing stages! And besides they won’t reuse the same level design"

*Tutorial stage is 1:1 with Unleashed’s tutorial* 

"It’s just the tutorial who cares! They aren’t going to do it for all the stages"

*Multiple stages got older level design*
"It’s not a big deal, cyberspace don’t matter…"

I’m also tired of being told that basic fucking expectations like having new levels in a new game is me being unreasonable/expecting a perfect game lol (but that’s mostly a Twitter thing)

Do you think the game will be good? 

[Soniman]

5 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Does he have any momentum physics or is it just visual?

Everyone sucks at the game right now so we’re probably not gonna see it used that way for a minute 

[azoo]

5 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Does he have any momentum physics or is it just visual?

It looks like he does sorta? Maybe? Even the guy that uses the move doesn't use it a lot.

[mudhtt]

1 minute ago, Starnik said:

Do you think the game will be good? 

Right now it’s looking like a 6/10 game for me. Not bad but just not great.

[Scritch the Cat]

31 minutes ago, Starnik said:

It’s a little ironic how the people who hate the game are Sonic fans. I think the game will be fine based on impressions of the demo.

Not remotely ironic if you have a good grasp of what this game is; the most blatant example since Shadow the Hedgehog of the franchise going against what it had been in order to rip off other currently popular games and bring in new fans that way.  The Sonic series’ practice of retooling itself to bring in new fans has always been double-edged, to put it nicely, and it’s embarrassing that the big development focus of the series tends to be slapping a new game-specific gimmick on rather than refine and improve the core gameplay.

Some people say we shouldn’t be mad that the cyberspace levels reuse layouts, art, etc, because they’re not meant to be the main draw of this game anyway.  But a lot of old fans hoped for them to be the game’s saving grace because the open zone just looked drab to them.  Maybe pretty for what it was, but too sterile and not well-optimized for a fast game, and then that depressing music twists the knife in further.

I won’t presume to speak for all Sonic fans or make an estimate of how many like vs don’t like this game’s direction.  But it’s safe to say that SEGA’s main goal here wasn’t to appeal to pre-existing Sonic fans; it was to appeal to what it perceives to be generalized mainstream gamers and make them into new Sonic fans.