Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Starnik]

I guess Sonic Frontiers is the new Sonic Adventure. Some of the current Sonic fans will reject it. But a new younger fandom will grow around it. The older fans will be sour for years that their Sonic is gone.

 

[Tracker_TD]

3 minutes ago, Starnik said:

I guess Sonic Frontiers is the new Sonic Adventure. Some of the current Sonic fans will reject it. But a new younger fandom will grow around it. The older fans will be sour for years that their Sonic is gone.

No, it's just a new Sonic game. Same as Forces, same as Lost World, same as ever. Some people will like it, some won't, and we just wait another few years to do this all over again the next time.

[Starnik]

Just now, Tracker_TD said:

No, it's just a new Sonic game. Same as Forces, same as Lost World, same as ever. Some people will like it, some won't, and we just wait another few years to do this all over again the next time.

Yeah but I don’t see love for Forces. It’s not casual gamers really love that game. Same thing with Lost World. 
Also why do this every few years. How long will people continue supporting a franchise they hate? Why bother? 

[Tracker_TD]

2 minutes ago, Starnik said:

Yeah but I don’t see love for Forces. It’s not casual gamers really love that game. Same thing with Lost World. 
Also why do this every few years. How long will people continue supporting a franchise they hate? Why bother? 

Forces had this exact same thing going on pre-release, hence I'm not taking what's going on right now as some huge sign of a fanbase split to come. People had almost vertabrim the same kind of denial I've been seeing from people about the reused levels.

There was plenty of love for Forces until it came out and let all those people down. This is the same shit, different day. I think Frontiers will turn out much better than Forces, but it's not gonna cause some paradigm shift in Sonic fans - I don't think even Sonic Boom ended up doing that.

[light-gaia]

1 minute ago, Starnik said:

Yeah but I don’t see love for Forces. It’s not casual gamers really love that game. Same thing with Lost World. 
Also why do this every few years. How long will people continue supporting a franchise they hate? Why bother? 

Forces is a weird case of a Sonic game that barely has fans. Even controversial games such as Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006 have a good amount of fans, but Forces doesn't 

[Graystripe2000]

Combat clip. With sound. Also, enemies have health bars. 

 

[Starnik]

1 minute ago, light-gaia said:

Forces is a weird case of a Sonic game that barely has fans. Even controversial games such as Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006 have a good amount of fans, but Forces doesn't 

Well Forces isn’t a very interesting game. I really think it’s silly the fans complained about it for five years, while no one else cared. Game isn’t worth even thinking about. 

 

3 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

Forces had this exact same thing going on pre-release, hence I'm not taking what's going on right now as some huge sign of a fanbase split to come. People had almost vertabrim the same kind of denial I've been seeing from people about the reused levels.

There was plenty of love for Forces until it came out and let all those people down. This is the same shit, different day. I think Frontiers will turn out much better than Forces, but it's not gonna cause some paradigm shift in Sonic fans - I don't think even Sonic Boom ended up doing that.

Would you continue buying the games if Frontiers is a disappointment? 

[DaBigJ]

4 minutes ago, Graystripe2000 said:

Combat clip. With sound. Also, enemies have health bars. 

Why does Sonic just...stop after jumping off the ledge?

[Tracker_TD]

Just now, Starnik said:

Would you continue buying the games if Frontiers is a disappointment?

Probably. Even Forces was only really aggressively mediocre at worst, people just hyped it up so much that it crushed them. Frontiers is probably also going to be aggressively mediocre at worst (and I don't think it'll be as bad as Forces at any rate), so as long as they don't put out another 06 I'll probably end up buying them still. Would much rather they make genuinely good titles like Mania again though.

[Graystripe2000]

Eh. Why not? How about an impressions tweet? 

 

[Starnik]

1 minute ago, Tracker_TD said:

Probably. Even Forces was only really aggressively mediocre at worst, people just hyped it up so much that it crushed them. Frontiers is probably also going to be aggressively mediocre at worst (and I don't think it'll be as bad as Forces at any rate), so as long as they don't put out another 06 I'll probably end up buying them still. Would much rather they make genuinely good titles like Mania again though.

Okay, thanks for answering! 

[Razule]

36 minutes ago, mudhtt said:

And also…

 *Older levels are returning*
 "Stop complaining guys it’s just Sonic’s memories so of course they’re reusing stages! And besides they won’t reuse the same level design"

*Tutorial stage is 1:1 with Unleashed’s tutorial* 

"It’s just the tutorial who cares! They aren’t going to do it for all the stages"

*Multiple stages got older level design*
"It’s not a big deal, cyberspace don’t matter…"

I’m also tired of being told that basic fucking expectations like having new levels in a new game is me being unreasonable/expecting a perfect game lol (but that’s mostly a Twitter thing)

Because they don't really care about those things. They think people being critical is annoying and are saying anything to shut them up. 

[Scritch the Cat]

18 minutes ago, Starnik said:

I guess Sonic Frontiers is the new Sonic Adventure. Some of the current Sonic fans will reject it. But a new younger fandom will grow around it. The older fans will be sour for years that their Sonic is gone.

I think technically Sonic Unleashed was already the new Sonic Adventure, to use your metaphor as intended.  But it should be noted that while some of the iffy things in Sonic Adventure were total WTF additions, others were understandable results of the series reckoning with what had been preestablished and how to bring it into 3D.  They had made a habit of adding characters in every new game and it had generally gone over fine, so they didn’t immediately see a risk to staying that course when moving into 3D.  And as easy as it is to say the problem with Amy, Gamma and Big in that game is that they abandoned the 2D games’ winning formula of having other playable characters play mostly like Sonic but with a few different moves, that formula wasn’t foolproof in 3D either because in 3D Tails’ and Knuckles’ abilities make it easier to cheese levels.

This game doesn’t have the excuse Sonic Adventure did to be as problematic as it is.  At least for MOST OF Sonic Adventure, they were obvious trying to make a 3D Sonic game and most of the problems were due to how that is not a straightforward process.  This game isn’t trying to be a 3D Sonic game; it’s trying to be the trendy sort of 3D game, shoving Sonic into that, and hoping for the best.

[Starnik]

1 minute ago, Razule said:

Because they don't really care about those things. They think people being critical is annoying and are saying anything to shut them up. 

Well some people are just bothered by things that others aren’t. Not really unusual. Some fans were upset at Sonic’s spines at one point. But for most people that’s not important.

[Jay_Senju]

The replies on these cyber space levels tweets are honestly hilarious to me ngl.

[Kuzu]

Everyone wants something different from Sonic games, and naturally people will be mad when they don't get what they want. Its just human nature to do that.

I'm assuming the reason some older fans here are trashing this game is because its following the same design choices as they have since 2008 as opposed to actually treading new ground as they kept saying they were.

Long story short, if you hate Boost and wanted something else then this game was never going to win you over.

 

Forces tried to shallowly appeal to fans of the early 3D games with its "SUPER DARK" storytelling while slapping boost gameplay around and people saw right through it. Frontiers seems to be going for much more broad appeal like Sonic Colors, so the hyper-specific demands from most Sonic aren't really relevant.

[Sonikko]

I gotta say, seeing the marketing for Frontiers unfold has been quite fun.

We went from

"oh, it's something new, it's open world!"

to

"oh, it's kinda the same thing just in a wider space"

to

"the combat looks ok, but the cyberspace stages is where it's at!!"

to

"the cyberspace stages are just the side dish, the combat is the real meat".

 

I gotta say, I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to new Sonic releases because I've done this same song and dance many many times before, being there for the Sonic Heroes pre-release build up and all, and I honest to god was not expecting them to reuse the level layouts from Generations and Unleashed.

The open zone area looks """"fine"""", but I am starting to question wether we'll ever exit this eternal pool of mediocrity the franchise has stagnated into for the past 11 years.

Also, the discourse surrounding the games is really tiresome, it's always the same points being thrown around, and most of them are just uninformed and plain whiteknighting if I'm being honest. Idk how them shoving the same stages from games that are mostly readily available to play on modern platforms (Xbox, PC (with mods) and PS Now) can be excused by lore reasons. As if the plot of a game isn't built around the game itself. The rehashed stages came first and they wrote a plot around that, easy as that.

Yall can go play Windmill Isle act 1 and GHZ act 2 on Steam right now in a better, more fluid engine (as the cyberspace stages seem to control very close to how Forces did, and... yeah), with better graphics as well.

Thing is, my bar was so low, all I've said when they released the first footage was "at least it's something new, they're trying", and it's really not anything new at the end of the day lol.

I was expecting "new" from a "new" game, and a good chunk of it (what until 3 days ago was meant to be the saving grace of the game, going by the hands on impressions) is literally the same content I've been replaying for the past 10 years.
 

[light-gaia]

9 minutes ago, Sonikko said:

I gotta say, seeing the marketing for Frontiers unfold has been quite fun.

We went from

"oh, it's something new, it's open world!"

to

"oh, it's kinda the same thing just in a wider space"

to

"the combat looks ok, but the cyberspace stages is where it's at!!"

to

"the cyberspace stages are just the side dish, the combat is the real meat".

I gotta say, I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to new Sonic releases because I've done this same song and dance many many times before, being there for the Sonic Heroes pre-release build up and all, and I honest to god was not expecting them to reuse the level layouts from Generations and Unleashed.

The open zone area looks """"fine"""", but I am starting to question wether we'll ever exit this eternal pool of mediocrity the franchise has stagnated into for the past 11 years.

Also, the discourse surrounding the games is really tiresome, it's always the same points being thrown around, and most of them are just uninformed and plain whiteknighting if I'm being honest. Idk how them shoving the same stages from games that are mostly readily available to play on modern platforms (Xbox, PC (with mods) and PS Now) can be excused by lore reasons. As if the plot of a game isn't built around the game itself. The rehashed stages came first and they wrote a plot around that, easy as that.

Yall can go play Windmill Isle act 1 and GHZ act 2 on Steam right now in a better, more fluid engine (as the cyberspace stages seem to control very close to how Forces did, and... yeah), with better graphics as well.

Thing is, my bar was so low, all I've said when they released the first footage was "at least it's something new, they're trying", and it's really not anything new at the end of the day lol.

I was expecting "new" from a "new" game, and a good chunk of it (what until 3 days ago was meant to be the saving grace of the game, going by the hands on impressions) is literally the same content I've been replaying for the past 10 years.
 

Actually, people said the open-zone gameplay wasn't interesting after the IGN gameplay showcase. Then, when we had gameplay from other channels, most people (at least on YouTube) started saying the game looks good, but the IGN showcase didn't "give the game any justice". Even though I don't think the other gameplays were that different, aside from better performance.

Right now, there are a lot of different opinions going on. On Reddit, most people seem to be positive about the game, even though the disappointment about the cyberspace is almost unanimous.

I think saying everyone has these same reactions and opinions is a bad generalization.

[Shiny Gems]

I understand it can be tiring, but to me, what the positive people are telling the pessimistic fans things like the open world is fine and such should not be that bothersome. I mean, people did defend Sonic Forces and look how that turned out, but I don't think what the positive fans are saying are harmful. I mean, they do have some merit, if to an extent, like the tutorial and the memories. Maybe not wholly given how past Sonic games have been reusing assets and all, but it is there. No offense, but I feel people complaining about what the positive fans have to say just don't want to hear it, and that can lead to more pessimism, or at least maybe some mentally unhealthy behaviors. I just feel as if the people complaining about what positive fans have to say just want to continue being negative for the sake of it, not giving anything the positive fans have to say a chance. Besides, I don't know when they said that Sonic Frontiers was going to be all new, but I have my doubts that they completely said that. I could be wrong, but I don't think they said no old stuff would not be in Frontiers. Some people just expect that all newness anyway, and when they don't get what they want, they blame it on Sega and Sonic Team...

...When because of the possible lack of information on that front, the people who complain really have no one to blame but themselves.

[Starnik]

21 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

I think technically Sonic Unleashed was already the new Sonic Adventure, to use your metaphor as intended.  But it should be noted that while some of the iffy things in Sonic Adventure were total WTF additions, others were understandable results of the series reckoning with what had been preestablished and how to bring it into 3D.  They had made a habit of adding characters in every new game and it had generally gone over fine, so they didn’t immediately see a risk to staying that course when moving into 3D.  And as easy as it is to say the problem with Amy, Gamma and Big in that game is that they abandoned the 2D games’ winning formula of having other playable characters play mostly like Sonic but with a few different moves, that formula wasn’t foolproof in 3D either because in 3D Tails’ and Knuckles’ abilities make it easier to cheese levels.

This game doesn’t have the excuse Sonic Adventure did to be as problematic as it is.  At least for MOST OF Sonic Adventure, they were obvious trying to make a 3D Sonic game and most of the problems were due to how that is not a straightforward process.  This game isn’t trying to be a 3D Sonic game; it’s trying to be the trendy sort of 3D game, shoving Sonic into that, and hoping for the best.

 

I don’t think reinventing the Sonic formula for an open zone game is anything simple either. Not to mention the game is being made for multiple platforms. Sonic Team have a lot of work on their table.
 

Also there’s nothing wrong with getting inspiration from another game and doing your own take on the concept. That’s basically how Sonic came to be. Yuji Naka was inspired by Mario, and did his own spin on the platformer formula. As long as the game is good and unique, I don’t see an issue.

[mudhtt]

7 minutes ago, MightyGems said:

Besides, I don't know when they said that Sonic Frontiers was going to be all new, but I have my doubts that they completely said that. I could be wrong, but I don't think they said no old stuff would not be in Frontiers. Some people just expect that all newness anyway, and when they don't get what they want, they blame it on Sega and Sonic Team

Are you saying that fans should stop expecting new content for new video games lol?

[Shiny Gems]

Just now, mudhtt said:

Are you saying that fans should stop expecting new content for new video games lol?

Hardly. That was just a twist of words there.

I mean, I never said anything like that, I am sure.

[mudhtt]

Just now, MightyGems said:

Hardly. That was just a twist of words there.

I mean, I never said anything like that, I am sure.

Okay but isn’t expecting new content from a new installment in a video game franchise literally….normal? 
(And by new I don’t mean rebuild the whole thing, but at the very least not re-use previous level designs)

[Shiny Gems]

1 minute ago, mudhtt said:

Okay but isn’t expecting new content from a new installment in a video game franchise literally….normal? 
(And by new I don’t mean rebuild the whole thing, but at the very least not re-use previous level designs)

Better.

What I meant though, is that games, or some games do not have to be all new. I'd go into the level designs thing, but that has been covered already.

However, I will admit reasons like it being an anniversary game DO go only so far, and if the reuse of level design happens in later levels we see, not even I will be able to defend them.

...Even if I wanted to, that is.

[DaBigJ]

Pretty good thread about the Cyberspace levels