Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Starnik]

Maybe if fans stopped buying the games SEGA would stop making games they don’t like. 

[KHCast]

Just now, Starnik said:

Maybe if fans stopped buying the games SEGA would stop making games they don’t like. 

Just a quick question. How old are you? 

[The Deleter]

12 minutes ago, Starnik said:

I hope people stop buying the games if they’re unhappy with Frontiers. The constant whining year after year could have ended a long time ago. Stop supporting the games if you think they’re trash. All your going to do is make yourself more upset, and continuing the cycle. It’s so embarrassing watching Sonic “fans” continue to inflict pain on themselves for nothing. How long are you just going to go through the motions? Do you enjoy being unhappy? 

What??? The people complaining about this are the same people who enjoyed Generations and Unleashed stages when they came out. Some of the people complaining, like me, are still hopeful for the open world but are fully disappointed in the cyberspace. Why on earth should we stop talking about something we enjoy, have an interest in, and/or are hopeful to find some enjoyment out of just for the sake of positive-only spaces?

4 minutes ago, Starnik said:

Maybe if fans stopped buying the games SEGA would stop making games they don’t like. 

The majority of sales are from kids; boycotting does nothing

[Starnik]

Just now, KHCast said:

Just a quick question. How old are you? 

Seriously? You shouldn’t tell people your age online. Common sense. 

When was the last time you even enjoyed a Sonic game? Do you seriously believe you will like any games in the future? No one is a hostage here. Don’t support companies you hate. If you think Sonic Team is incompetent, then stop buying their products. If you think SEGA is a terrible publisher, stop giving them your money. Maybe then you’ll see the changes you want.

[Shiny Gems]

4 minutes ago, Starnik said:

Seriously? You shouldn’t tell people your age online. Common sense. 

When was the last time you even enjoyed a Sonic game? Do you seriously believe you will like any games in the future? No one is a hostage here. Don’t support companies you hate. If you think Sonic Team is incompetent, then stop buying their products. If you think SEGA is a terrible publisher, stop giving them your money. Maybe then you’ll see the changes you want.

A word of advice if that is okay: Try not to be angry, or stress yourself out about this. Whatever people do, they may do, but know that if they stay on a road for too long, they will likely crash at the end of it, not in a good way. It is basically a law of nature. Let them do what they wish, but some people do get left behind, if you know what I mean. (No offense to anyone here)

[Scritch the Cat]

1 minute ago, Starnik said:

Seriously? You shouldn’t tell people your age online. Common sense. 

When was the last time you even enjoyed a Sonic game? Do you seriously believe you will like any games in the future? No one is a hostage here. Don’t support companies you hate. If you think Sonic Team is incompetent, then stop buying their products. If you think SEGA is a terrible publisher, stop giving them your money. Maybe then you’ll see the changes you want.

Sorry but that’s not how this works.  SEGA will very likely make changes if a game bombs, but poor sales on their own do not determine what it changes INTO.  The most SEGA usually does in response to backlash is remove some widely hated gimmicks, albeit replacing them with new gimmicks just as quickly, and sometimes they’ll backpedal from a whole game if it’s identity is unique enough.  Actually improving what isn’t broken is usually an afterthought, and sometimes those things even get worse.  
 

If this game bombs, then knowing SEGA’s mindset and if ignoring feedback, what that’ll mean is likely no more open-world.  Which sucks because I like the concept of open-world Sonic.  That is a good reason we should NOT just stop whining instead vote with our wallets; because we want to signal that the open-world is not our problem with this game.  Sonic has such a vibrant fandom and so many impressive fangames in large part because fans are good at voicing their dissatisfaction with the official games.

[Starnik]

1 minute ago, MightyGems said:

A word of advice if that is okay: Try not to be angry, or stress yourself out about this. Whatever people do, they may do, but know that if they stay on a road for too long, they will likely crash at the end of it, not in a good way. It is basically a law of nature. Let them do what they wish, but some people do get left behind, if you know what I mean. (No offense to anyone here)

I’m not really angry. I don’t even feel negative about Frontiers. I think the drama is actually kinda funny. But still, thanks for the concern.
 

10 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

What??? The people complaining about this are the same people who enjoyed Generations and Unleashed stages when they came out. Some of the people complaining, like me, are still hopeful for the open world but are fully disappointed in the cyberspace. Why on earth should we stop talking about something we enjoy, have an interest in, and/or are hopeful to find some enjoyment out of just for the sake of positive-only spaces?

The majority of sales are from kids; boycotting does nothing

Generations was like a decade ago. Unleashed was even older. Being negative is fine. Being positive is fine. But if you didn’t like anything from Sonic Team in a decade, maybe your wasting your time and money. Do you think Sonic Team is capable of making a good you love? There are many games that come out every year. Why waste your time on Sonic. 
If you feel boycotting won’t work, then what’s the point of discussions like this. If you think your feedback will never be taken into account, why bother. When I no longer enjoy a franchise, I move along. Life is too short to waste on bad games. 

[DaBigJ]

We interrupt your arguments for an unrelated Sonic Frontiers post

You may proceed

[Zaysho]

32 minutes ago, Starnik said:

I hope people stop buying the games if they’re unhappy with Frontiers. The constant whining year after year could have ended a long time ago. Stop supporting the games if you think they’re trash. All your going to do is make yourself more upset, and continuing the cycle. It’s so embarrassing watching Sonic “fans” continue to inflict pain on themselves for nothing. How long are you just going to go through the motions? Do you enjoy being unhappy? 

 

You're not actually "above it all" like you want to act because some people are criticizing a product Sega wants to sell when you start throwing around this "true fan" nonsense. Making up stupid strawmen to attack other people and ignore what they're saying because you don't have an actual argument or point of discussion doesn't make you look better just because you don't like what they're saying. The same thing happened years ago during Forces' pre-release where people just like you came on here, blindly called people haters, and not read a single word of anyone's concerns because they didn't actually care and in many cases flooded the reports constantly to shut down discussion they didn't like.

This is your only warning to knock this shit off.

 

11 minutes ago, MightyGems said:

A word of advice if that is okay: Try not to be angry, or stress yourself out about this. Whatever people do, they may do, but know that if they stay on a road for too long, they will likely crash at the end of it, not in a good way. It is basically a law of nature. Let them do what they wish, but some people do get left behind, if you know what I mean. (No offense to anyone here)

How much longer are you going to keep trying to insert yourself into things that have nothing to do with you to play this "middle ground" nonsense where you're actually just trying to stir the pot? Knock it off.

 

If any of this keeps up, I'm just locking the topic for review.

[KHCast]

11 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Why on earth should we stop talking about something we enjoy, have an interest in, and/or are hopeful to find some enjoyment out of just for the sake of positive-only spaces 

Toxic positivity is quite the drug nowadays in hype cycles, especially on Twitter. Almost convinced game AAA companies knew this and artificially helped pushed this hype culture in order to up brand loyalty and pre orders and demonize any criticism that has a chance at catching wind (see stuff like pre release Cyberpunk cycle, or any Nintendo thing) 

[Cayenne]

Man, I love this fandom, but really dislike this habit of bringing Mario or other random franchises to defend Sonic and Sega/Sonic Team from criticism.

"I don't think that X is good for Sonic becau-"

"BUT GUYS, MARIO! KIRBY! ZELDA! CRASH! BUBSY! WHY THEY CAN DO X, BUT SONIC DONT!!!!!1'1'1'1"

I honestly want to know why some people think that other games doing whatever will justify any criticism against Sonic. These franchises aren't Sonic, their execution of ideas and concepts aren't similar to Sonic and they aren't made by the same developers. Why should I treat Sonic like Mario, Kirby or Crash? Because he is a platformer too or something? Because he is Cinderella and the other successful franchises are the evil stepmother and her daughters?

[The Deleter]

5 minutes ago, Starnik said:

Generations was like a decade ago. Unleashed was even older. Being negative is fine. Being positive is fine. But if you didn’t like anything from Sonic Team in a decade, maybe your wasting your time and money. Do you think Sonic Team is capable of making a good you love? There are many games that come out every year. Why waste your time on Sonic. 
If you feel boycotting won’t work, then what’s the point of discussions like this. If you think your feedback will never be taken into account, why bother. When I no longer enjoy a franchise, I move along. Life is too short to waste on bad games. 

Who said anything about feedback being pointless? If anything that is what causes change compared to boycotts. It's what caused "Sonic's shitty friends" to be dropped come the 2010s, it's what caused the story to be cut back to simplistic classic-like scope, it's what caused Shadow to include Guns and Forces to create an OC maker, it's what led to Arin Hanson to not be brought on as an influencer in future marketing deals, it's what led to classic Sonic and his zones to be reused past Generations, it's what caused SEGA to release a patch for Origins, etc

Just because Sonic Team tends to ignore some feedback over others, or focus on the wrong feedback, doesn't mean that they don't listen to feedback.

[Razule]

I don't think this game is going to be a trainwreck like Forces, or bad necessarily, but whew, I'm getting tired of the deja-vu. Same arguments, different people..

Time really do be a flat circle!

[Starnik]

5 minutes ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Sorry but that’s not how this works.  SEGA will very likely make changes if a game bombs, but poor sales on their own do not determine what it changes INTO.  The most SEGA usually does in response to backlash is remove some widely hated gimmicks, albeit replacing them with new gimmicks just as quickly, and sometimes they’ll backpedal from a whole game if it’s identity is unique enough.  Actually improving what isn’t broken is usually an afterthought, and sometimes those things even get worse.  
 

If this game bombs, then knowing SEGA’s mindset and if ignoring feedback, what that’ll mean is likely no more open-world.  Which sucks because I like the concept of open-world Sonic.  That is a good reason we should NOT just stop whining instead vote with our wallets; because we want to signal that the open-world is not our problem with this game.  Sonic has such a vibrant fandom and so many impressive fangames in large part because fans are good at voicing their dissatisfaction with the official games.

Maybe it would be a good thing if the game bombs then. Just play the fan games instead. I do agree about voting with your wallet. Companies react when they don’t want to lose their customers. 
 

1 minute ago, Zaysho said:

You're not actually "above it all" like you want to act because some people are criticizing a product Sega wants to sell when you start throwing around this "true fan" nonsense. Making up stupid strawmen to attack other people and ignore what they're saying because you don't have an actual argument or point of discussion doesn't make you look better just because you don't like what they're saying. The same thing happened years ago during Forces' pre-release where people just like you came on here, blindly called people haters, and not read a single word of anyone's concerns because they didn't actually care and in many cases flooded the reports constantly to shut down discussion they didn't like.

This is your only warning to knock this shit off.

How much longer are you going to keep trying to insert yourself into things that have nothing to do with you to play this "middle ground" nonsense where you're actually just trying to stir the pot? Knock it off.

If Frontiers isn’t good, I wouldn’t continue to buy future titles. Buying the game would send the message that I’m okay with what they’re doing. I only got into Sonic recently, and so far I haven’t been burned with any of the games or anything. That’s why I’m more on the positive side generally.

2 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Toxic positivity is quite the drug nowadays in hype cycles, especially on Twitter. Almost convinced game AAA companies knew this and artificially helped pushed this hype culture in order to up brand loyalty and pre orders and demonize any criticism that has a chance at catching wind (see stuff like pre release Cyberpunk cycle, or any Nintendo thing) 

I can agree about it being it toxic. Nothing improves without constructive feedback. It can allow problems to fester for years before it blows up. But I don’t think fans have been mostly positive about a Sonic game since Mania, and even further, Colors and Generations. That’s shocking when you think about it. I do think fans are willing to criticize the games. But if the games continue to sell because people still buy them, change will be difficult.

I was thinking earlier about how long it’s been since Sonic Team has actually made a game the fans enjoy. That’s why I was annoyed. Why is there such a long space of time between good releases. I think I may have a been too positive earlier. Fans are very much justified in being frustrated.  Like I said, I haven’t been burned, so I don’t feel the same as long time fans. But Sonic Team should do better. I think it’s ridiculous how long Sonic has been struggling as a franchise. Most franchises wouldn’t drag on this long right? 

okay I’m done rambling. 

[Zaysho]

1 minute ago, Starnik said:

If Frontiers isn’t good, I wouldn’t continue to buy future titles. Buying the game would send the message that I’m okay with what they’re doing. I only got into Sonic recently, and so far I haven’t been burned with any of the games or anything. That’s why I’m more on the positive side generally.

Re-read the post and tell me what this has to do with anything I said regarding your attitude toward other members.

[DaBigJ]

15 minutes ago, Cayenne said:

Man, I love this fandom, but really dislike this habit of bringing Mario or other random franchises to defend Sonic and Sega/Sonic Team from criticism.

"I don't think that X is good for Sonic becau-"

"BUT GUYS, MARIO! KIRBY! ZELDA! CRASH! BUBSY! WHY THEY CAN DO X, BUT SONIC DONT!!!!!1'1'1'1"

I don't really wanna contribute to the argument...but nobody mentions Bubsy lol

[Cayenne]

7 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

I don't really wanna contribute to the argument...but nobody mentions Bubsy lol

The Bubsy part was just a silly joke to empathize how random these franchise comparisions are. : X

[Starnik]

12 minutes ago, Razule said:

I don't think this game is going to be a trainwreck like Forces, or bad necessarily, but whew, I'm getting tired of the deja-vu. Same arguments, different people..

Time really do be a flat circle!

Yeah. It’s a cycle for sure. Do you think it’ll end? I think it would be good to look forward to something either than train wreck or middling. 

20 minutes ago, Cayenne said:

Man, I love this fandom, but really dislike this habit of bringing Mario or other random franchises to defend Sonic and Sega/Sonic Team from criticism.

"I don't think that X is good for Sonic becau-"

"BUT GUYS, MARIO! KIRBY! ZELDA! CRASH! BUBSY! WHY THEY CAN DO X, BUT SONIC DONT!!!!!1'1'1'1"

I honestly want to know why some people think that other games doing whatever will justify any criticism against Sonic. These franchises aren't Sonic, their execution of ideas and concepts aren't similar to Sonic and they aren't made by the same developers. Why should I treat Sonic like Mario, Kirby or Crash? Because he is a platformer too or something? Because he is Cinderella and the other successful franchises are the evil stepmother and her daughters?

When you think about it, Nintendo has many great mascot like characters.  (Mario, Pikachu, Kirby,etc) By comparison SEGA isn’t as great at making long lasting characters. I think it’s amazing a great character like Sonic was even created. But SEGA isn’t the best at maintaining brands are they? They don’t really have other mascot like characters besides Sonic. And Sonic is kinda weird for a mascot compared to Mario because he has a ton of personality. 

 

35 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

We interrupt your arguments for an unrelated Sonic Frontiers post

You may proceed

I wish we had audio from the game to hear what they’re saying…

[Ratcicle King]

44 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

We interrupt your arguments for an unrelated Sonic Frontiers post

You may proceed

Man I wanna give props to Flynn because you can feel his writing in these cutscenes, but that'd be ignoring everyone else involved in the cutscene making process because they're clearly giving their A Game on this one. The storyboarding, the expressions and movement, the body language, it all feels just so much better in this. I didn't know how much I missed these more dynamic cutscenes where things actually happen with characters moving around and showing some personality instead of just standing still and talking either exposition or jokes. Also really glad they're balancing Sonic's characterization here, the tone is serious but he's still snarking, and it feels in line with his attitude instead of misunderstanding bravado with ''cracking jokes in the face of danger'' like the Colors writers did.

Overall feeling quite satisfied with the approach to the story, will probably go dark once they start showing stuff past Island 2 since I wanna enjoy this story blind.

[Starnik]

15 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

Man I wanna give props to Flynn because you can feel his writing in these cutscenes, but that'd be ignoring everyone else involved in the cutscene making process because they're clearly giving their A Game on this one. The storyboarding, the expressions and movement, the body language, it all feels just so much better in this. I didn't know how much I missed these more dynamic cutscenes where things actually happen and characters move around and shows some personality instead of just standing still and talking. Also really glad they're balancing Sonic's characterization here, the tone is serious but he's still snarking, and it feels in line with his attitude instead of misunderstanding bravado with ''cracking jokes in the face of danger'' like the Colors writers did.

Overall feeling quite satisfied with the approach to the story, will probably go dark once they start showing stuff past Island 2 since I wanna enjoy this story blind.

I’m glad they got Flynn to contribute to the game. I wonder how stories will be going forward. Maybe the games will have stronger continuity between them. They kept the old writers around for ten years. I can imagine Flynn will get to write for at least that long. 
 

The writing might actually end up being the best part of the game. Might be the first time that happens.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Starnik
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[StaticMania]

The camera is dynamic, but they're still just standing around...

See More: In upcoming footage

[Ratcicle King]

4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The camera is dynamic, but they're still just standing around...

See More: In upcoming footage

Cinematography and character acting goes a long way to make it not feel like they're just standing around. To me at least.

[The Deleter]

Personally I've just accepted that the bulk of Frontiers' appeal is going to be in the open world now. It is RIDICULOUS that they needed to rehash level design after having 5 years to work on the game, in an inferior gameplay style, but it is what it is now. Best to tune it and the cyberspace out as done-before busywork. As a result of that, though, the importance of the open world and combat being engaging is now 10 times more important than the "oh there's traditional Sonic gameplay in the cyberspace don't worry" stance so many people expected from the game's marketing at this point, and that's concerning. I think there's a lot of potential in the open world level design, along the same lines as what the earlier twitter footage showed off, but is it good enough??? I don't know about that. And the combat... Hrmmmm...

I will say however the footage of the "Grinning" Titan was 100% satisfactory from the presentation department; hopefully the gameplay department will be similarly well executed as well, considering it was the core premise of the title since inception. More of that, please. A whole lot more of that; I just want Titan bosses and gameplay to save it at this point lol

[StaticMania]

The character acting has been pretty fine in the last few games...

Sonic Forces in particular just had pretty bad animation and few cutscenes to even portray character.

Though Sonic's eyes did seem to be a bit more expressive from what I could see of another cutscene in frontiers.

[The Deleter]

Also a huge part of my potential enjoyment of the gameplay is going to come from, again, whether these two homing attacks are a thing throughout the entire game's objects or not. Having a free-flowing homing attack through Generations levels would be legitimately amazing in terms of feel, to the point where running through them again wouldn't be so bad