Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[D.K.]

Throwing in my unimportant opinion on Wisps coming back.

I actually really, really like the idea behind the white ones. While increasing your boost with rings is a fun roller coaster so to speak it completely negates any directional input, difficulty or length from the levels. Having boost energy be limited to the Wisp capsules makes those long streaks of boosting feel earned, which ties in with the "earn your speed" philosophy of the old games.

I'd be completely fine with the Wisps back if it were exclusively the white ones for boost, but if you absolutely haaaaaaaaaaave to bring back the others they should be optional powerups like in Colours. The reason people liked them in Colours to begin with is that there were very few times in which they were actually necessary, but apparently whoever decided to shoehorn them put them into Generations and Lost World didn't understand that.

[Drunk Michael Myers]

My bet on the third playable character: Metal Sonic

[JezMM]

What we've seen of the game isn't much more than reaching the end of the first triple-grind-rail bridge in Green Hill Zone on Sonic Generations.  I know even that game was too linear for many, but I'll be very surprised if what we get is MORE linear.  I'd certainly like them to step-up from Generations though and figure out ways to make the multiple paths much more... I dunno really, just, when I replay those games I gravitate towards the same paths every time and I'm not sure if that's a level design or a player psychology issue...

7 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

The canon is capable of destroying a massive radius without destroying the planet itself.

He was more than happy to destroy places with it, not the planet itself entirely, so it makes sense. He needs the planet, not the people.

No, that was just a few lines in Sonic X and Lost World.

Alrighty then.

Someone already responded to this but yeah I just want to re-iterate, "wanting to be adored" is possibly Eggman's BIGGEST drive as a character, canonically speaking.  He thinks he is amazing and is utterly baffled that the world doesn't agree - and he's just lacking in common sense enough to think forcing them to agree is the only solution.

6 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

The only time it was used canonically in Shadow was to destroy the Black Comet.

I'd argue that Central City being heavily destroyed is one of the few key events in the game that can be set in stone as canon - the destruction of Central City leads to the President being evacuated to GUN Fortress - which is where he is seen in the Last Story (undebatably canon).  My theory is the TRUE events of Shadow are vague and that Shadow's journey is much longer than the 6 levels of branching paths could ever imply - we only see one POSSIBILITY each time we play.  So canonically, at some point, Black Doom acquired enough emeralds to fire the cannon in it's limited power form.

6 hours ago, RictalRose0 said:

Something I had on my mind earlier and hope happens is that if there's collectibles in this game, I don't want them to be useless. It would be interesing to see like audio or text longs from the characters, so we can get extra insight into what what they think and stuff, in case the game doesn't have that many cutscenes. Fill in the blanks you know? Like Gerald's diary in Sonic Battle.

I'd DEFINITELY like meaningful unlockables in this for sure.  I'd really like Super Sonic to be a standard post-ending unlockable that everyone can enjoy (even assisting lesser-skilled players with taking on tougher 100% challenges?), and for the reward for Red Rings to be something meaningful.

Lore-building stuff would be really cool and a thing that only really Secret Rings and Black Knight ever did, for their own seperate worlds.  Though I'd definitely like unlockable levels, which are always the best reward for any platform game.  Re-using assets for them is fine, especially if they do different weather/times of day etc like Unleashed and Generations did for their bonus stages.

[Blue Blood]

35 minutes ago, JezMM said:

What we've seen of the game isn't much more than reaching the end of the first triple-grind-rail bridge in Green Hill Zone on Sonic Generations.  I know even that game was too linear for many, but I'll be very surprised if what we get is MORE linear.  I'd certainly like them to step-up from Generations though and figure out ways to make the multiple paths much more... I dunno really, just, when I replay those games I gravitate towards the same paths every time and I'm not sure if that's a level design or a player psychology issue...

Although it's true that we've seen so very little at this stage, the first impression isn't great. Just browsing discussions on Sonic forums, general game forums, preview articles and comments therein, the reaction is generally pretty tepid. This 40-second "gameplay" clip shows nothing more than automatic boosting on a straight path. In addition to not being exciting on its own, it's also exactly the same as what we've seen before. There's no distinguishing this from the Generations Green Hill that you mentioned, or several other moments in recent games. 

SEGA picked a rather poor bit of footage for the first showcasing of the game. Visually it looks nice, and that's where the compliments end. There's just nothing else that leaves an impression. It's a shame. If it's going to be less linear and bringing more to the table than this in the long run (which is possible cause this looks like the very start of the first level), then they really should have made that obvious. Even a more traditional trailer using the same footage cut up and mashed together would have been a step up. Literally like this.

It's hard for me to be too excited yet. I don't dislike what I'm seeing, but I'm disappointed in it and am waiting for something to really capture my attention. 

[JezMM]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Although it's true that we've seen so very little at this stage, the first impression isn't great. Just browsing discussions on Sonic forums, general game forums, preview articles and comments therein, the reaction is generally pretty tepid. This 40-second "gameplay" clip shows nothing more than automatic boosting on a straight path. In addition to not being exciting on its own, it's also exactly the same as what we've seen before. There's no distinguishing this from the Generations Green Hill that you mentioned, or several other moments in recent games. 

SEGA picked a rather poor bit of footage for the first showcasing of the game. Visually it looks nice, and that's where the compliments end. There's just nothing else that leaves an impression. It's a shame. If it's going to be less linear and bringing more to the table than this in the long run (which is possible cause this looks like the very start of the first level), then they really should have made that obvious. Even a more traditional trailer using the same footage cut up and mashed together would have been a step up. 

It's hard for me to be too excited yet. I don't dislike what I'm seeing, but I'm disappointed in it and am waiting for something to really capture my attention. 

Oh yeah, I should've said really, I 100% agree with this notion, and I admit, if it was a whole game of this quality level design I'd be disappointed too.

Granted, if this really is the very opening section of the game, there is some hope for the fact that what we see here seems much more demanding of the player as far as the basics go, there's kind of a lot to take in here if it's your very first time playing a 3D Sonic game.  I mean, Sonic Colours didn't put you on a path with spike traps to avoid instead if you failed at the upper routes in the very first stage.  My hope is that they're very quickly getting new/returning players up to speed on the basics of Modern Sonic gameplay so they can start throwing new ideas at us, or at the very least this will be a more challenging game than Colours and the majority of Generations but... right now that can only be a hope.

[Kintor]

16 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Although it's true that we've seen so very little at this stage, the first impression isn't great. Just browsing discussions on Sonic forums, general game forums, preview articles and comments therein, the reaction is generally pretty tepid. This 40-second "gameplay" clip shows nothing more than automatic boosting on a straight path. In addition to not being exciting on its own, it's also exactly the same as what we've seen before.

The purpose of Sonic Forces is to restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise and in all honesty I think that things are actually going pretty well so far. There is a genuine excitement in the air, not just here but across the rest of the internet as well. Not everyone may be on board yet but at least there is the sense that Sonic Force is a respectable AAA game.

Which is a big deal in its own right, when for many gamers the last time they looked at a 3D Sonic game was to watch YouTube compilations of Sonic Boom glitches. Little by little the Sonic franchise is clawing back its acclaimed position in popular culture. That 40 seconds of Sonic Forces has done more for the Sonic Franchise then five pitiful years of Lost World and Sonic Boom.

[Blacklightning]

17 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

There's no distinguishing this from the Generations Green Hill that you mentioned

I'd say there is - Sonic Forces actually does it worse from what I'm seen.

Although Green Hill does still use springs and boost pads as crutches, for the most part they're at least placed with specific purposes in mind - sometimes used for direction (like it was with that grind rail around :20), sometimes used to give speed for setpieces that need it on the offchance that Sonic runs out of boost energy by that point (bearing in mind that boost Sonic can't just spindash as a backup if his boost energy runs out). The thing about the boosters in Forces, at least so far, is that they are completely unnecessary and redundant by every stretch of the imagination, even for excuses as contrived as the above.

At worst you might gently rub into the walls around the stairs at :13, but besides that nearly all the boost pads are right out in the open with absolutely no obstacles preceding or succeeding them - especially considering you can just generate instant speed on a button anyway, there's really no reason for them to be there. Even as far as dead simple first levels go, this doesn't set a very good precedent.

[JezMM]

11 minutes ago, Blacklightning said:

At worst you might gently rub into the walls around the stairs at :13, but besides that nearly all the boost pads are right out in the open with absolutely no obstacles preceding or succeeding them - especially considering you can just generate instant speed on a button anyway, there's really no reason for them to be there. Even as far as dead simple first levels go, this doesn't set a very good precedent.

I can KIND of see logic in them:

First straightway: Teaches you that boosters exist and here is what they do

Staircases: Teaches you that boosters change your direction

After homing attack chain: Gets you back up to speed immediately

Before big jump: Gets you to the top of the hill quickly in case you aren't boosting

On hill: Again, makes sure you're running full speed with or without the boost, before challenging you to hit as many as you can with quickstep.  This is probably the least necessary one but I guess it also sort of acts as a "gate", like a starting gun for the new section, rather than just simply landing without fanfare.

 

I definitely agree they're a touch handholdey and I am reaching a bit: I'm SURE this could all be done more elegantly, but if this is the first section of the game I CAN see the virtue in starting strong and making sure new players who haven't figured out the boost yet still get a very speedy first impression of the gameplay.

[Dannymax440]

Whoah what is up with the negativity just when people were excited? I get the skepticism but for a game that's an anniversary and restoration of Sonic's reputation, the response I've been seeing solely on 42 seconds of gameplay from some YouTube comments and web pages makes it look as if the game is trash. I'm not asking for everyone to be sold immediately to the game but can we at least wait till the full modern, classic and the new gameplay to be revealed as well as the story to make a conclusion on how it is. Not every bad first impression on a game means it won't be great.

[Blue Blood]

35 minutes ago, Kintor said:

The purpose of Sonic Forces is to restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise and in all honesty I think that things are actually going pretty well so far. There is a genuine excitement in the air, not just here but across the rest of the internet as well. Not everyone may be on board yet but at least there is the sense that Sonic Force is a respectable AAA game.

Which is a big deal in its own right, when for many gamers the last time they looked at a 3D Sonic game was to watch YouTube compilations of Sonic Boom glitches. Little by little the Sonic franchise is clawing back its acclaimed position in popular culture. That 40 seconds of Sonic Forces has done more for the Sonic Franchise then five pitiful years of Lost World and Sonic Boom.

 

 

You're getting a bit swept up here, don't you think? The game isn't getting outright slated or anything even remotely like that, but it's clearly not setting the world on fire either. Only some of the more die-hard Sonic fans are really thrilled by what they're seeing at the moment - and let me stress that there's nothing wrong with that. If you're excited about the game, shout it from the rooftops. Generally speaking though, the game is just getting impressions of "this looks decent but it's also samey".

Lost World made some really good first impressions because the gameplay was totally fresh and the art-style was a much safer choice; it's always going to be easier to please the masses with Green Hill clones than it is with a burning city. Boom got people talking too. They may not have been the nicest of words that were being thrown around, but strong impressions were still made for better or for worse. Again Forces is just existing at the moment. It's had a weak first showing. Compare it to Mania too. Mania is tugging at all the nostalgia strings and people are giddy about everything we've seen since day one. You can't say the same response for Forces. 

[JezMM]

6 minutes ago, Dannymax440 said:

Whoah what is up with the negativity just when people were excited? I get the skepticism but for a game that's an anniversary and restoration of Sonic's reputation, the response I've been seeing solely on 42 seconds of gameplay from some YouTube comments and web pages makes it look as if the game is trash. I'm not asking for everyone to be sold immediately to the game but can we at least wait till the full modern, classic and the new gameplay to be revealed as well as the story to make a conclusion on how it is. Not every bad first impression on a game means it won't be great.

Nobody's saying the game WILL be bad, they're just saying it's a bad first impression, they don't like what they see so far because this game has the same sort of beginnings as Unleashed/Colours/Generations did, which said people also weren't satisfied with the full game of for one reason or another.  They're just saying, right now they have nothing to tell them this game will be any different... which is a thought that is fair to express.  I love the boost games so I'm happy right now, but it's fair that those who don't love the boost games or wanted something new aren't happy.

[JosepHenry]

We have boost, and classic Sonic... What could be the next one? Adventure styled gameplay? Something new, like action RPG styled gameplay? We are not going to know that until E3 right...

 

But nothing stops me from speculating!

[Ajavalo]

I will say this: if the third gameplay style is indeed close to that of the Adventure games... That would make me very, very happy!

[Chooch]

So far the main thing I can really muster is that we have a straight line. A really really really pretty straight line.

Green Hill Zone Act 2 in Generations was basically the same way so I'm not freaking out yet tho'. I'm honestly more concerned about Wisps than anything. I don't like Wisps, I never did and I probably never will unless they do some sort of overhaul on them (which they likely won't). I'm just hoping that Wisps in this game are at least tolerable if not way better than how they were in Colors. If they're going to keep bringing them back then they need to take the time to improve upon them by making them more cohesive and fun to use.

Also I have no reason to believe that the third gameplay style they are teasing is anything but Boom Sonic. By Boom Sonic I don't mean a copy of Rise of Lyric's gameplay or anything, I just mean the character you will use is Boom Sonic. The cartoon's doing alright, the classic Sonic and modern Sonic pillars are there and there's no real evidence to suggest that they're going to make a brand new character for Forces. By process of elimination that's where I'm left. It could be fun. Who knows.

[Jango]

I just want another Eggmanland level, m'kay. Without Werehogs of course [emoji14]

[Blue Blood]

10 minutes ago, Chooch said:

Also I have no reason to believe that the third gameplay style they are teasing is anything but Boom Sonic. Cartoon's doing alright, the classic Sonic and modern Sonic pillars are there and there's no real evidence to suggest that they're going to make a brand new character for Forces. By process of elimination that's where I'm left. It could be fun. Who knows.

 

 

1

During the panel, they stressed the importance of the forces of good and the forces of evil. That, and something else that I'm not going to talk about, leads me to think that Eggman might be playable. And I've had this suspicion since before Project 2017 was even announced last year. I could be terribly wrong, but things would certainly add up if I'm right. 

[JosepHenry]

So that means mech shooting? Adventure fans should be happy... Kinda.

[Chooch]

3 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

During the panel, they stressed the importance of the forces of good and the forces of evil. That, and something else that I'm probably never going to be allowed to talk about, leads me to think that Eggman might be playable. And I've had this suspicion since long before Project 2017 was even announced last year. I could be terribly wrong, but things would certainly add up if I'm right. 

Never really considered the possibility of Eggman returning as a playable character. That would definitely be interesting but I'm completely at a loss as to how it would work. Boom Sonic I have a lot more ideas for, haha.

[Kintor]

45 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

You're getting a bit swept up here, don't you think? The game isn't getting outright slated or anything even remotely like that, but it's clearly not setting the world on fire either. Only some of the more die-hard Sonic fans are really thrilled by what they're seeing at the moment - and let me stress that there's nothing wrong with that. If you're excited about the game, shout it from the rooftops. Generally speaking though, the game is just getting impressions of "this looks decent but it's also samey".

I don't think you fully appreciate just how much things have changed in the last 48 hours. Before this gameplay trailer of Sonic Force so many people were dismissive of the Sonic franchise. Since Lost World was an unmitigated failure, a bizarre experiment relegated to an obscure Nintendo console that few gamers ever actually played. The same would have been true of Sonic Boom as well, had it not been for such critical design flaws that the entire internet couldn't help but point and laugh in disgust. Now instead we have Sonic Forces, a return to form with the much loved gameplay of Sonic Generations. Sonic Forces is the game to restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise, as has already become with just 40 seconds of footage.

[Blue Blood]

12 minutes ago, Kintor said:

I don't think you fully appreciate just how much things have changed in the last 48 hours. Before this gameplay trailer of Sonic Force so many people were dismissive of the Sonic franchise. Since Lost World was an unmitigated failure, a bizarre experiment relegated to an obscure Nintendo console that few gamers ever actually played. The would have been true of Sonic Boom as well, had it not been for such critical design flaws that the entire internet couldn't help But point and laugh. Now instead we have Sonic Forces, a return to form with the much loved gameplay of Sonic Generations. Sonic Forces is the game to restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise, as has already become with just 40 seconds of footage.

Okay.

You're clearly looking at this through glasses tinted by your own hype, so it's not going to be possible to have a levelled discussion here. 

I'll say it again - if you like the game, then that's great. You're totally allowed to enjoy everything about it. However, the information and footage that we have at the moment has done little to change things on a wider scale. The game is not getting bad press. If anything, it's mildly positive and very reserved, with some valid concerns being expressed too. It will be some time before Forces starts to make any waves or "restore the reputation of the franchise".

 

[Kintor]

Just now, Blue Blood said:

Okay.

You're clearly looking at this through glasses tinted by your own hype, so it's not going to be possible to have a levelled discussion here. 

I'll say it again - if you like the, then that's great. You're totally allowed to enjoy everything about it. However, the information and footage that we have at the moment has done little to change things on a wider scale. The game is not getting bad press. If anything, it's mildly positive and very reserved, with some valid concerns being expressed too. It will be some time before Forces starts to make any waves or "restore the reputation of the franchise".

The point is that the Sonic Franchise is now a valid topic of conversation once again. Before the reveal of Sonic forces it was easy for so many to just malign and dismiss Sonic games, when the last five years only produced abominations like Lost World and Sonic Boom in the view of the wider gaming community. However, Sonic Forces represents a chance to have those conversations again and perhaps even revaluate the perception of 3D sonic games. For now then it's enough for people to look at Sonic Forces and wonder if it might be good. These small victories can be built-upon to fully restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise.

[Tracker_TD]

33 minutes ago, Chooch said:

Also I have no reason to believe that the third gameplay style they are teasing is anything but Boom Sonic. By Boom Sonic I don't mean a copy of Rise of Lyric's gameplay or anything, I just mean the character you will use is Boom Sonic. The cartoon's doing alright, the classic Sonic and modern Sonic pillars are there and there's no real evidence to suggest that they're going to make a brand new character for Forces. By process of elimination that's where I'm left. It could be fun. Who knows.

Iizuka said as much during the Sonic Cafe Q&A a few months back that there is a brand-new character in Forces. Whether they're the playable one is less certain, but it's a possibility.

1 minute ago, Kintor said:

The point is that the Sonic Franchise is now a valid topic of conversation once again.

Sonic Mania already did that, and it did so in a unanimously positive fashion. 

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Tracker_TD said:

Sonic Mania already did that, and it did so in a unanimously positive fashion. 

Yes and no. Sonic Mania is a 2D downloadable game, impressive but not judged in the same way as a AAA 3D platformer would be. Hence, the only way to mitigate the failure of 3D platformers like Lost World and Sonic Boom is with another successful 3D platform. The creation of Sonic Forces represents both a break with the recent past and also a return to the well-received gameplay of Sonic Generations. It's a good plan and the logical sequel every expected after Sonic Generations, before the insanity of Lost World and Sonic Boom ruined everything.

[Tracker_TD]

5 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Yes and no. Sonic Mania is a 2D downloadable game, impressive but not judged in the same way as a AAA 3D platformer would be. Hence, the only way to mitigate the failure of 3D platformers like Lost World and Sonic Boom is with another successful 3D platform. The creation of Sonic Forces represents both a break with the recent past and also a return to the well-received gameplay of Sonic Generations. It's a good plan and the logical sequel every expected after Sonic Generations, before the insanity of Lost World and Sonic Boom ruined everything.

If Mania kicks the everloving shit out of Forces in the "being good" department, nobody's going to care it's "a downloadable 2D game"; because most critics have been asking for a proper return to 2D Sonic since the 3D games went to shit. 

If anything, Mania doing well will make Sonic Team look worse, because a 'mere 2D downloadable game' from an outside dev will have mopped the floor with them. And all this is assuming "it's a 2D download title" is reason to brush aside my logic in the first place, given it's a got a shiny physical CE on the way. If it gets a disc copy, then what? 

Just look at PCGamer's latest:

http://www.pcgamer.com/this-weeks-highs-and-lows-in-pc-gaming-3-17-2017/2/

[Kintor]

6 minutes ago, Tracker_TD said:

If Mania kicks the everloving shit out of Forces in the "being good" department, nobody's going to care it's "a downloadable 2D game"; because most critics have been asking for a proper return to 2D Sonic since the 3D games went to shit. 

If anything, Mania doing well will make Sonic Team look worse, because a 'mere 2D downloadable game' from an outside dev will have mopped the floor with them. And all this is assuming "it's a 2D download title" is reason to brush aside my logic in the first place, given it's a got a shiny physical CE on the way. If it gets a disc copy, then what? 

This isn't a contest between Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces and you're certainly not going to start a civil war in the Sonic fanbase today.

In the end both Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces are necessary to help restore the reputation of the Sonic franchise. The success of Sonic Mania will show that Sega respects the heritage of the franchise, proving that great 2D Sonic games didn't stop with 16-bit hardware. While the success of Sonic Forces will be an opportunity to confront past failures in the 3D platformers and redeem the Sonic Franchise's status as a respectable AAA franchise. The problems of the past can't be ignored but with Sonic Forces there is a chance for the Sonic Franchise to at last move forward free of shame.