Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[RictalRose0]

Something I had on my mind earlier and hope happens is that if there's collectibles in this game, I don't want them to be useless. It would be interesing to see like audio or text longs from the characters, so we can get extra insight into what what they think and stuff, in case the game doesn't have that many cutscenes. Fill in the blanks you know? Like Gerald's diary in Sonic Battle.

[Chris Knopps]

Moving on.

Back on the topic of Forces itself, one thing I'm wondering is what exactly Eggman's main base is. A massive robot even larger than the giants we've seen?

A new Egg Carrier type flagship?

Or perhaps your usual "bad dude base" somewhere in the world?

Lets play a game, where is the Eggman? Or rather, where do you want him to be?

[Waveshocker Sigma]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Moving on.

Back on the topic of Forces itself, one thing I'm wondering is what exactly Eggman's main base is. A massive robot even larger than the giants we've seen?

A new Egg Carrier type flagship?

Or perhaps your usual "bad dude base" somewhere in the world?

Lets play a game, where is the Eggman? Or rather, where do you want him to be?

Why choose one when you can do them all?

Any good villain has a backup base and a backup-backup base.

Even Adventure had 2 bases for Eggman with the Egg Carrier and the Final Egg Hideout.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

It really depends on just how Eggman did all this. If it's time eater again, I vote that he's somehow been taken into the thing, because that seemed to be what it was pushing toward in Generations, even if it never quite got that far.

[Bowbowis]

Alright. I'm on vacation so I don't really have time to sit down and write up my thoughts in depth but here goes.

BOWBOWIS'S IMPRESSION OF SONIC FORCES (Cliff Notes version)

• First of all, how 'bout that theme song? It's been a long time since we've had a rocking track like that from the series, it actually gives me some "I Am... All of Me" vibes in places. If the rest of the OST is up to that standard Forces may well be on the fast-track to joining SA2 and Black Knight as one of my favorite Sonic soundtracks.
• Shit is happening during the level. One thing I've missed from the series post-Black Knight are the more dynamic, spectacle fueled, levels and Forces looks to be bringing them back with a vengeance. Even those opening seconds of the gameplay footage, where missiles come falling out of the sky and blow up a building, are infinitely more exciting than anything we saw in Colors or Lost World. The fact that we're actually seeing the events of the story reflected in the level, and will apparently be receiving updates from other characters, also gives me hope that we'll see story and gameplay being integrated with each other again.
• Speaking of characters, the extended cast back (Yay!) as NPCs (Boo!). Still, can't argue with progress, maybe if people don't shit on them merely for existing this time around SEGA will give us an unlockable Shadow skin or something in the next game.
• There's apparently a new character in the mix as well. I'm personally expecting either Sticks or another Chip/Tikal type character but only time will tell.
• As for the character's talking over the radio, I've never had a major problem with the concept of dialog during levels in Sonic games, it's a matter of execution more than anything. Done poorly, you wind up with a Time Eater situation where characters just repeat variations of the same line ad nauseum. Done well and you get something more like Black Knight where in-game dialog is used to deliver character interactions, world building, jokes, call backs, and other non-critical tidbits that may otherwise disrupt the flow of the standard cutscenes. Black Knight also had the option to turn of the in level dialog, although why you would want to is beyond me.
• A final note on the characters, I do hope they have an active role in the story and aren't just glorified cheerleaders like in Generations. One thing that I think would be cool would be if the characters actually showed up to assist Sonic in the level itself. Sort of like Knuckles in S3&K but helping rather than hindering. For example, Omega could show up to blast some rubble out of Sonic's path or Silver could create some platforms over a chasm. Hell, if they really wanted to go the extra mile than could give the other characters their own little sub stores which unfold in the background an occasionally impact, or are impacted by, Sonic / the player. For instance, say there's a level where as you speed along you may occasionally glimpse Knuckles and Shadow fighting a Death Egg Robot Sentinel in the background. As you progress through the level you reach a point where you're running directly at the Death Egg Robot Sentinel as if fires off a salvo of missiles at Knuckles and Shadow. To progress through the level you have to do a homing chain across the missiles, assisting Knuckles and Shadow storywise, while gameplay wise still moving the player forward. Later on Shadow may return the favor, warping in and destroying missile headed for Sonic with Chaos Spear. Finally, this little story line could end with Sonic crossing a broken bridge when Knuckles delivers the final blow to the Death Egg Robot Sentinel, causing it to collapse such that its body fills the gap in the bridge, allowing Sonic to run across. Just food for thought.
• Also, "Death Egg Robot Sentinel" is the most clumsy name ever. Did "Egg Sentinel" roll off the tongue too easily or something?
• I hope Pontac and Graff aren't back for this one, they've had five chance writing for the series, more than anyone else (except maybe Shiro Maekawa) and their work still ranges from merely adequate to utterly abysmal. Honestly I think they're just a bad fit for the series; they don't play to its strengths and it doesn't play to theirs.
• Visually, the game is a bit of a mixed bag for me. On a technical level it looks great which is to be expected from the successor to the Hedgehog Engine. For some reason the more simplistic patterns don't bother me here as much as they did in Lost World, I think its a combination of the more detailed textures and the less garish color pallet. I don't love them or anything but they're at least tolerable. I'm still not a big fan of the soft edges on everything either, I didn't care for it in Unleashed or Generations and I don't care for it now. I like some harder lines in my Sonic games. It also bugs me that the scorch marks on the buildings are perfect circles, I get that geometric shapes are sort of a thing for the series but come on, it's destruction, not decoration, there should be some degree of irregularity to it, having it look so perfect is just... odd. Don't get me wrong here, I don't hate it, but I still prefer the art direction in the Adventures and Storybooks.
• Gameplaywise, boost is back. I expected as much but I'm still disappointed. Boost is fun but its not particularly satisfying. Some folks posted two different videos of Final Rush several pages ago, one had the player flying down the rails and using the speed they gained to soar over chunks of the level, the other had the player taking a somewhat slower, more cautious, approach with less risk but also far less reward. Watching them really made me appreciate how much something as simple as having more than two possible speeds contributed to SA2's skill ceiling. Other that that I really have nothing to contribute here that hasn't already been said.
• Wisps are back. Ugh. Can we at least get an explanation for why their here this time? Maybe streamline them so they don't break up the flow of the game so much while you're at it?
• We haven't seen any Classic gameplay yet but I think we all know what about what to expect from it more or less. The only real question is whether or not the physics will be improved from Gens.
• There's supposed to be another gameplay style as well. I'm holding out for Adventure Sonic, or at least something in that vein but I'm not getting my hopes up.

So yeah, that took me longer than expected, so much for cliff notes.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

• Also, "Death Egg Robot Sentinel" is the most clumsy name ever. Did "Egg Sentinel" roll off the tongue too easily or something?
• I hope Pontac and Graff aren't back for this one, they've had five chance writing for the series, more than anyone else (except maybe Shiro Maekawa) and their work still ranges from merely adequate to utterly abysmal. Honestly I think they're just a bad fit for the series; they don't play to its strengths and it doesn't play to theirs.
• Visually, the game is a bit of a mixed bag for me. On a technical level it looks great which is to be expected from the successor to the Hedgehog Engine. For some reason the more simplistic patterns don't bother me here as much as they did in Lost World, I think its a combination of the more detailed textures and the less garish color pallet. I don't love them or anything but they're at least tolerable. I'm still not a big fan of the soft edges on everything either, I didn't care for it in Unleashed or Generations and I don't care for it now. I like some harder lines in my Sonic games. It also bugs me that the scorch marks on the buildings are perfect circles, I get that geometric shapes are sort of a thing for the series but come on, it's destruction, not decoration, there should be some degree of irregularity to it, having it look so perfect is just... odd. Don't get me wrong here, I don't hate it, but I still prefer the art direction in the Adventures and Storybooks.
• Gameplaywise, boost is back. I expected as much but I'm still disappointed. Boost is fun but its not particularly satisfying. Some folks posted two different videos of Final Rush several pages ago, one had the player flying down the rails and using the speed they gained to soar over chunks of the level, the other had the player taking a somewhat slower, more cautious, approach with less risk but also far less reward. Watching them really made me appreciate how much something as simple as having more than two possible speeds contributed to SA2's skill ceiling. Other that that I really have nothing to contribute here that hasn't already been said.
• Wisps are back. Ugh. Can we at least get an explanation for why their here this time? Maybe streamline them so they don't break up the flow of the game so much while you're at it?
• We haven't seen any Classic gameplay yet but I think we all know what about what to expect from it more or less. The only real question is whether or not the physics will be improved from Gens.
• There's supposed to be another gameplay style as well. I'm holding out for Adventure Sonic, or at least something in that vein but I'm not getting my hopes up.

So yeah, that took me longer than expected, so much for cliff notes.

I will say this is "try too hard" material.

Here here my friend.

That would likely require more time/budget/manpower than the company has approved for the game.

Yes, and nope. Not likely.

What if it's Treasure Hunting returning?

[SSF1991]

Hai. New Sonic Forces info from IGN has come in.

1. Tails is an NPC on the radio too.

2. Letter rankings at the end of a level seem to be returning.

3. Probably the biggest news of the bunch:

Quote

"Watching more of the level, I remained as intrigued as I did when the Sonic 2017 project was first announced that the first visuals of the game depicted such an apocalyptic setting. Would this be a much darker story for the hedgehog and his friends?

Well, while watching the game, I was assured that this is one of the more aesthetically grim parts of the game. So you likely won’t have to worry that the world is meeting its horrific end in a dark and gritty Sonic reboot. That became clear to me as, even amidst the collapse of this cityscape, Sonic’s supporting cast — Tails and Amy among them — would occasionally chime in to shout updates on the calamitous situation at Sonic."

 

[FriendBot]

Oh hey, even though the situation is grim for Sonic and friends; it's going to have some levity. The thing people (me included) were talking about since since the teaser trailer first showed up but nevermind.

I figured the Ranking System would just be a norm, has been since Adventure 2. Here's hoping it's a bit more challenging to get them similar to Unleashed and Lost World. Please let it not be piss easy like in Colors and Generations, thank. I like to feel that I did a good run in a stage and earned that sexy S Rank.

Tails (and possibly his younger self too) may be an NPC but dammit, the joke is still going to go on!

pleasetellmeBBFA3makesaTailsisDeadjokeEmimightbesadtovoiceitbutdammitit'sgonnabegreat

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 hours ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

...So, Eggman Nega.

Cause when you turn Eggman into that, you get Eggman Nega. Particularly when he can't keep up his polite facade anymore.

I already subscribe to the idea that Eggman Nega is really an alternate Eggman gone crazy from all his failures, and basically became Nega in an attempt to disassociate himself from his past failures, so having our Eggman do the same would just be redundant.

[BlueFlare]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the guy said:

It really depends on just how Eggman did all this. If it's time eater again, I vote that he's somehow been taken into the thing, because that seemed to be what it was pushing toward in Generations, even if it never quite got that far.

Please be anything but Time Eater or some useless ancient beast. We need a proper, thrilling Eggman battle as the final scene, keep this shit real!

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 hours ago, Josh said:

I think this whole "EGGMAN SHOULD BE A PSYCHOPATH" thing could be avoided if Sonic had more of a rogue's gallery or somethin. I genuinely don't like the idea of Eggman being some kind of mass killer and it should be obvious why, but a more serious villain taking the stage for a game I wouldn't mind, so long as they had as much charm as Eggman does.

The mass killing thing is dumb though. It's Sonic. Calm down.

Building off what Josh said, I do agree that Sonic really needs a rogues gallery, with a wide variety of villains ranging from the pathetic to the decently threatening so that the good doctor doesn't have to suffer extreme villain decay or character derailment just so he can fit whatever level of threat Sonic's latest game needs. And frankly there wouldn't really even need to create any new characters because we already have a huge number of characters from past Sonic games and various Sonic continuities that can easily be repurposed into the gameverse to serve as minor recurring villains. Heck, maybe have the minor villains be rivals to major Sonic characters to give them more to do outside of being with Sonic, like Nack being an old rival bounty hunter of Rouge, with Sleet and Dingo being minor thugs who dislike her, or Scratch and Grounder making a cameo as Eggman's first and oldest robots, now in retirement but wanting to return to their glory days or something. The potential is there, it's just going unused because of who's in control of everything right now.

The real problem is convincing Sonic Team and SEGA to actually do something like this (and potential legal issues), instead of falling back on the Tite Kubo Maneuver of "Create new character to compensate for our inability to flesh out or use preexisting characters effectively". They have everything they really need to truly make the characters great again (Trump reference not intended), but they need to be willing to use their imaginations and the tools they've been given more effectively.

[Chris Knopps]

A dark and gritty reboot is kind of what we need now really.

Not saying 06 or Shadow level but definitely something along the lines of CD/SA/SA2.

[RictalRose0]

I wouldn't call that a dark and gritty reboot tbh. Though that might be because hollywood has ruined "dark and gritty" these days. Still, I wouldn't mind the tone of the series shifting more towards that Adventure 1 tone mixed with some Unleashed. Self-contained epics that have a good mix of lightheartedness and serious and profund moments. Like in Adventure, the story starts up simple and gradually picks up, but with Unleashed's hubworld and NPC design. I think that would be ideal.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

8 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

A dark and gritty reboot is kind of what we need now really.

Not saying 06 or Shadow level but definitely something along the lines of CD/SA/SA2.

Debatable. I myself like the idea of Sonic having more dark moments (well written ones at any rate), but my biggest problem is the detachment and excessive self deprecation that is so prevalent in much of Modern Sonic's games and the lack of care towards the story and characters outside of Sonic Tails and Eggman, not that it isn't super dark and gritty.

[RictalRose0]

I think Sega has taken the complains that Sonc's friends are unnecessary and annoying too heart too much. No one complains about them when the game itself is good. People complain about 06 because it's a bad game. The gameplay is broken and the design is weird. If it was just about Sonic and Eggman it would still be a terrible game.

Critics have praised the gameplay of Generations and Colors. But not the story, dialogue and characters. A good game is a lot more fun when it makes you care about the characters and the world on it. And the Pontaff games just miss the mark on that regard.

If Sonic Forces features the other characters as relevant NPCs, and has a good story and the game is well received then I think Sega will stop with the "Sonic, Tails and Eggman only" policy. 

[FriendBot]

 

Ohtani is going to LA to record more Forces music, it's gon be lit BOI!

[StaticMania]

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

A dark and gritty reboot is kind of what we need now really.

Not saying 06 or Shadow level but definitely something along the lines of CD/SA/SA2.

None of these games are "dark and gritty"...is it really so hard to just say you want something "serious and relatively mature" compared to what we've had? Especially since you're using SA2 and CD as examples of reference.

[RictalRose0]

That sounds much more fitting, "serious and relatively mature". 

[TheOcelot]

Quote

Sonic’s supporting cast — Tails and Amy among them — would occasionally chime in to shout updates on the calamitous situation at Sonic."

Looks like a homing-shot XP

THEY NEED TO BRING BACK THE EGGMAN ANNOUNCEMENTS FROM COLOURS. They were so cool!

My two cents on what we've seen so far, I'll be brief:

First off I'm really liking the logo. It stood out straightaway and the difference in colors compared to the logo's from the other recent main series games is refreshing.

The main theme is so rad. So catchy, reminds me a bit of Runners title music. I still want a vocal theme intro!

3 hours ago, Soni said:

 

Ohtani is going to LA to record more Forces music, it's gon be lit BOI!

If we're getting an entire soundtrack with this kind of music then I'm sold! Sonic soundtracks are so consistently good.

I've been waiting nearly ten years for a game to surpass Unleashed in terms of the visuals and based on the brief footage it does look like Forces might be the game to set the new standard. Watching the carnage/destruction as Sonic races through is very impressive and dramatic. I'm gonna show the footage to my nephew later today. Will be interesting to hear what he thinks of it.

As for the actual gameplay.... Okay, yes it's no secret I'm not the biggest fan of the boost formula, but I'm not gotta shit on it. It's back and I'm just gonna have to run with it XP

If they are limiting the boost energy using the wisps like in Colours then I think it's a step in the right direction; not so much bringing back the wisps but making it so you have to use the boost more sparingly might make it more rewarding if used well. Might be in a minority but I really enjoyed Colours, so any ideas they take from it are welcome. 

As for a third gameplay style, I really haven't got a clue. Adventure Sonic seems the easy answer. As long as the gameplay style is still another Sonic running, jump, platformy and going fast then that's the main thing, I guess.

[TheLaw34]

Right now sonic is teen titans go and I want him to be regular teen titans. 

[PickleBrows]

Just going back to the gameplay footage for a minute. I think most of us agree on how linear this stretch of level seems to be, it definitely feels like the early-level syndrome that Generations had. I've been looking through the footage to see if there's any possible signs of there being more accessible paths outside of the one we've seen.

 

Notice that upper roof with the stripy hazard barriers. We've seen Sonic crash through a couple of these already when he first activates his boost so there's definitely the precedence for them to be objects to be interacted with. So if they're up there that'd indicate to me there's something up there.

The only problem is that there's no way for Sonic to get up there from where he is. The only means he has for gaining height is the homing chain and that's way too low to be of any use. If it turns out I'm right, I'm guessing there's a small side path somewhere further back with a spring to launch you high enough. Alternatively, maybe a couple of those steel crates will be wooden in the final game, allowing you to stomp through them into a hidden spring that launches you up to that higher path.

I could be completely wrong on all of this obviously but I definitely wouldn't rule out there being at least some minor exploration for what is almost certainly level 1.

[Salamander]

My own opinion on Eggman's characterisation is that he isn't really interested in examining the consequences of his actions, so while on a realistic assessment it seems likely that people would have died, it's not Eggman's goal to kill people - just to take over the world and show off.  Furthermore, I agree with the statements above that the Sonic series will always do its best to avoid on-screen deaths and deny the occurrence of collateral damage at all (which was the point of my quip in the "who has killed the most" thread, actually).

3 hours ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

I already subscribe to the idea that Eggman Nega is really an alternate Eggman gone crazy from all his failures, and basically became Nega in an attempt to disassociate himself from his past failures, so having our Eggman do the same would just be redundant.

This is basically what I believe, too; that he's actually a jaded future Eggman and that his other backstories (spoken and implied) are just lies to avoid having to admit his failures.  He becomes a much more interesting character this way.  It's pure headcanon, but given the chance, I'd make it canon in a heartbeat.

Will Nega be in Forces?  Hard to say.  But the redesigned cyclopic enemies and muted colour schemes have to be significant.  Maybe it's Nega, but at the very least I think Forces Eggman will have a new outfit.  It's worth remembering that time shenanigans are absolutely involved in this game, too - easy though it is a lot of the time to forget that Classic Sonic is involved at all.

Also: The media aren't calling them "Death Egg Robot Sentinels," they're calling them "Death Egg Robot sentinels"; in other words, "sentinels which are Death Egg Robots."  And it's not even confirmed that that's their official name, for that matter, so I'm not too worried about the clunkiness of the name, which is in fact merely a description.

[Scar]

There are a few branching corridors that I noticed, which is good. Will make replays a little more interesting for sure.

I think the main point of contention really is how everything are varying degrees of corridor. I guess people are hoping for levels to be nicely designed 3D terrains that Sonic can use his potentially cool moveset to traverse.

[TheOcelot]

1 hour ago, Joy said:

I could be completely wrong on all of this obviously but I definitely wouldn't rule out there being at least some minor exploration for what is almost certainly level 1.

Lets be honest, minor exploration on a linear path like this isn't anything to shout about. I can forgive the level being more linear than the others if it's the first in the game.

Looks like it's got a 2.5d section which will hopefully open up a bit more.

[StaticMania]

People who play Sonic the hedgehog. All those people want is to not feel like they're in a narrow corridor. Sonic will never not be linear, but it would help if areas were spacious enough that it feels like you can explore. Maybe sometimes those more open areas will lead into branching pathways. That's the good stuff.

 

The good stuff that the Boost game-play will barely scrape up, but never truly provide. Sooooo...it will die eventually.