Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[JosepHenry]

Eggman the main villain of the series didn't kill no one...?

Ironic to think that, the military of the series killed a sick 12 year old girl and executed a poor old man...

[Waveshocker Sigma]

I don't need to think about what the middle ground I want to see Eggman hit is. Post-Reboot Archie already did it for me.

What do I want to see out of Eggman?

 

 

^That. THAT is what I want to see out of Eggman in the games. An absolute magnificent bastard who is still so lovable and charming that you end up wanting to see him lose while wanting to watch him work.

You love him, but also love to hate him. That's Eggman.

[Multikaris]

Just now, JosepMelloZSM said:

Eggman the main villain of the series didn't kill no one...?

Funny to think that, since the military of the series killed a 12 year old girl and executed an a poor old man...

As far back as the 8-bit games, he was probably a killer. He killed Tails in Sonic 2's Bad Ending.

[FriendBot]

3 minutes ago, Lady Soniko said:

@JezMM I find it hard to believe that there aren't people who lost their lives during one of Eggman's plans, how about when he split the world into pieces in Unleashed? I find it hard to believe that people along the fracture lines didn't get devastated, and from a realistic standpoint the lunar activity shift due to damaging the moon in SA2 didn't devastate part of the planet because of irregular ocean activity. I mean yeah it's overthinking but Eggman probably has killed people just SEGA would never admit or show something like that in a franchise primarily aimed at Children.

Might be unrealistic but nope, everyone was hunky dory. Everyone was gone just before the tidal waves hit when Perfect Chaos came to be, the moon is still functional in the gravitational thingymajib even with half of it blown to pieces, nobody died during the Black Arms invasion or when the planet was fractured.

No risks, no worries. 

[Lady Soniko]

I know Sonic X is a bad show but they had realistic fallout in the Chaos Arc, after the battle with Super and Perfect Chaos the episode shows the aftermath of Station Square's devastation, Sonic spends the entire episode helping out people stuck in the rubble, finding missing people and saving them from the floods, as much as Eggman fails and Sonic wins, his plans and actions still have a huge effect on people involved, collateral damage if you will, think Captain America Civil War, the heroes win but the damage still is done. 

@Soni Except the scene where a G.U.N soldier tells the Commander Westopolis is almost completely destroyed and has suffered maximum casualties?

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I would like to see more villains/antagonists stick around in the series, but considering all the one shot villains the series has had never stopped people wanting grimdark serious Eggman I doubt some recurring ones would change that.

 

Imagine if one of them was an actual character though. The one shot villains from before are more like archetypes and plot devices. I couldn't reliably put one in Eggman's spot for a game and have it not put a damper on the experience because they aren't as charming as him at all. 

I dunno, just an idea. 

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Eggman the main villain of the series didn't kill no one...?

Funny to think that, since the military of the series killed a 12 year old girl and executed an a poor old man...

A "crazy" old man. It's just more accurate.

[RictalRose0]

I wouldn't call Eggman a psycho. He doesn't want to kill people but if they do die because of his plans I don't think it would haunt his sleep or something. He's just like, realllly selfish and generally uncaring of others. That's why the guy only surrounds himself with robots and mindless monsters after all. 

[Maxtiis]

1 minute ago, RictalRose0 said:

It's the same as in Superheroe movies or cartoons. Entire cities get destroyed and it's like "Don't worry, no one died!" it's like yeah we know people died but you can't tell that to the audience, or else they'll call it unrealistic that the hero doesn't feel some sort of guilt or there's no major repercussions. Marvel even had to backpeddal on that with Civil War.

I always thought it that was stupid in Civil War. Yeah it's a shame all those people had to die, but it's not the Avengers fault they did. They're still human there's only so much they can do. Tying it back into Sonic, there's no way he'd feel guilty over people dying due to Eggman's antics if it were to happen. I'm sure he'd be remorseful, but in the end he'd know it's not his fault it happened. After all his theme song mentions he doesn't live with regrets.

[Meta77]

7 minutes ago, JezMM said:

If nothing else I feel Sonic's characterisation around Eggman is what suggests to me, canonically, that Eggman doesn't have a kill count.  Sonic was there at Prison Island, he's friends with Rouge who was also privy to the situation, it would be inconsistent to Sonic's character for him to be so chummy with an actual murderer.

Sonic didn't know rouge at that point

[FriendBot]

Actually, the Archie Comics post-reboot touched upon that kind of subject with the Heroes trying to save people from the damages after the planet was fractured (which is something Unleashed has never touched upon whatsoever)

@Lady Soniko they were just injured, nobody died. 

[Wraith]

8 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Whatever you've been on that made you forget the past, give me some so Rise of Lyric and 06 never happened.

I want to know where you got anything concrete of Eggman being some psycho killer. He's careless. but he's not one to take lives for the sake of taking them.

Again: Hard evidence. Not "Oh people could have died here!" because you could just as easily argue that they didn't.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Meta77 said:

Sonic didn't know rouge at that point

The point is that he wouldn't be on friendly terms with her afterward if she had actually murdered hundreds(?) of people. Heroes tend not to invite mass-murdering terrorists to their birthday parties.

[JosepHenry]

3 minutes ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

I don't need to think about what the middle ground I want to see Eggman hit is. Post-Reboot Archie already did it for me.

What do I want to see out of Eggman?

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

^That. THAT is what I want to see out of Eggman in the games. An absolute magnificent bastard who is still so lovable and charming that you end up wanting to see him lose while wanting to watch him work.

You love him, but also love to hate him. That's Eggman.

WOW. Now I'm REALLY hoping that Ian Flynn is doing the writing.

[JezMM]

3 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Sonic didn't know rouge at that point

Rouge could have talked about it after, but regardless my previous points are very weak compared to what Diogenes said about the fact that Rouge was a spy for the government the entire time - she would have warned Prison Island about the bomb.  I forgot about that fact until they mentioned it.

[Kellan]

If she was a spy for the government, she shouldn't have had to fight the Bigfoot. Rouge being a spy creates a couple of holes in the story.

Still one of the better stories in the franchise, though.

[Meta77]

6 minutes ago, Josh said:

I want to know where you got anything concrete of Eggman being some psycho killer. He's careless. but he's not one to take lives for the sake of taking them.

Again: Hard evidence. Not "Oh people could have died here!" because you could just as easily argue that they didn't.

Um....when did most you start playing sonic games. He literally burned angle island to the ground and bombed it. He shot sonic into space to kill him in sa2 not to tease him but kill him.  He tried to bomb station  square out of anger with a huge nuke. He held any at gunpoint he blew up the moon. He blew up the plant. He enslaved animals. He corrupts things he wants to use. He bombed solena.

 

Eggman is crazy he's not that good Saturday morning adventures of sonic eggman. He may be funny but he's crazy

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, Josh said:

I want to know where you got anything concrete of Eggman being some psycho killer. He's careless. but he's not one to take lives for the sake of taking them.

Again: Hard evidence. Not "Oh people could have died here!" because you could just as easily argue that they didn't.

You're going to tell me we all think nobody died in Unleashed when he blew apart the world? Bound to be people that fell into the crater.

What about when he LITERALLY threatened to nuke civilizations using the ARK if the government didn't submit...?

Actually, yeah, focus on the ARK, dude was ready to start firing until things gunked at the end.

Then there was, despite being horribly written, Lost World where, sure, he didn't want to kill everything, but he definitely didn't care what/who died in the areas he did target.

Come on, lets not dance this game.

[FriendBot]

Sonic Theory time!

Rouge is so secret of an agent that not even most GUN soldiers are aware of her involvement with the government.

But then, how would Shadow know if Rouge was a spy?

Sonic Theory time!

[SpongicX]

I’m honestly so annoyed that Sonic’s friends will just be side characters again, instead of optional playable characters in Sonic Forces. The name of the game feels like such a freaking lie! Why call it Sonic Forces, if only Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic, and some new character are the only playable characters?!… At least let the other characters be optional Sega! Quit ignoring the fans! 

Also, I am annoyed to hear that Modern Sonic will still have 2d sections forced in once again… What the Hell?! Classic Sonic is already getting sidescrolling gameplay not only in Sonic Forces, but is also getting his own sidescrolling game with Sonic Mania. I hate how much neglect the Dreamcast/3d era of Sonic is getting. Seriously, aside from story, I’m starting to question why I should even buy this game? What does this have that Generations doesn’t?! I wanted this game to have more diversity to it, I wanted Sonic’s friends to be playable again, but it’s still mostly focusing on sidescrolling gameplay, neglecting the 3d gameplay, and once again giving the other characters the boot…

I really wanted to be excited for Sonic’s big comeback in 2017, but right now, it sounds incredibly disappointing… I really hope this game can somehow impress me, but the hype has died down for me at the moment…  If no one agrees with me, that's fine, this is just my personal opinion. There's no reason to turn this into a debate. 

[StaticMania]

4 minutes ago, Kellan said:

If she was a spy for the government, she shouldn't have had to fight the Bigfoot. Rouge being a spy creates a couple of holes in the story.

Still one of the better stories in the franchise, though.

She was specifically suppose to be a spy for the President, not for G.U.N. So it would make sense if they didn't know about it, she was a famous Government spy as proclaimed by Shadow, so maybe that wasn't the case.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

Re reading that article again, and getting to the part where radio communications will occur during gameplay.

I hope that part (and the story of the game) will be handled well and not how Rise of Lyric did it. (Overuseage of bounce pads and other dumb dialogue such as "Oh look a ramp!" "Let's use these as ramps!")

The radio dialogue could be done to prolly give the player some idea on how the heck this destruction came to be or something like that.

Also let's hope they don't bring back the cheerleading shtick from Generations...

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Eggman in the comics is the perfect Eggman. Committing villainous atrocities and such without a care in the world, and hardly even flustered by his opponents whose names don't rhyme with Chronic the ledge-dog. He's basically the joker but with no subtlety and consistent writing.

In fairness, that is what he's acted like in recent games, the problem is that none of the other characters take things seriously, and it undermines the character's intent.

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Then there was, despite being horribly written, Lost World where, sure, he didn't want to kill everything, but he definitely didn't care what/who died in the areas he did target.

Actually no, he straight-up suggested destroying the entirety of Lost Hex to get rid of the D6.

Eggman is consistently the best written and acted character in any incarnation, it's how the others react to him that needs to change, not he himself.

And psycho Eggman is a dumb idea that would go over terribly and be the edgiest and least-fun thing ever. This is a game about a cartoon blue hedgehog that fights a guy with a giant mustache and a big silly grin. You can add tension, maturity and genuine characterization without going stupid grim-dark, and anyone who doesn't understand that need only look at Shadow the hedgehog to understand why the opposite doesn't work.

Just make a good story, and the level of darkness it's in is completely 100% irrelevant. Look at Steven Universe or Adventure Time. Family TV shows that never get much darker than you could expect out of Sonic, but are still complex narratives with great character development and paralleling plotlines.

52 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Do I fap to an actually scary/evil Eggman? Yes... Yes I do.

This doesn't exactly make the idea you're trying to argue sound more believable or better.

oh but no, I'm inappropriate because I use the word "fuck"

[Celestia]

23 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Ironic to think that, the military of the series killed a sick 12 year old girl and executed an a poor old man...

And yet Eggman's the villain for blowing up their extremely shady military base / prison 

...Kidding, mostly. Besides, he didn't blow up the island for revenge, he blew it up because...uh......I forget, why did Eggman blow up the island, anyway? Maybe it was to distract G.U.N. and cover his tracks, though I guess it could just be that Eggman really likes blowing things up.

But yeah I see Eggman as the sort of villain that doesn't really go out of his way to kill people, but he doesn't seem like the type to lose any sleep over, say, anyone who did (in theory) get blown up on Prison Island. He's not some mass murderer, but he's not a big ol' softboy either.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Kellan said:

If she was a spy for the government, she shouldn't have had to fight the Bigfoot. Rouge being a spy creates a couple of holes in the story.

Still one of the better stories in the franchise, though.

Considering she was reporting directly to the president, I'd imagine she was pretty deep undercover. It's reasonable that not all levels of GUN were in on it, and/or that they were trying to keep her cover.

1 minute ago, Meta77 said:

Um....when did most you start playing sonic games. He literally burned angle island to the ground and bombed it. He shot sonic into space to kill him in sa2 not to tease him but kill him.  He tried to bomb station  square out of anger with a huge nuke. He held any at gunpoint he blew up the moon. He blew up the plant. He enslaved animals. He corrupts things he wants to use. He bombed solena.

No one is saying that Eggman is a nice guy, but none of these have confirmed deaths, and none of these are killings just for the sake of it as if he's bloodthirsty or something.

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

You're going to tell me we all think nobody died in Unleashed when he blew apart the world? Bound to be people that fell into the crater.

Yes, actually, I'm going to say with confidence that no one died when the planet was split. No matter how unrealistic that may be, that's the kind of world this series takes place in.

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

What about when he LITERALLY threatened to nuke civilizations using the ARK if the government didn't submit...?

Actually, yeah, focus on the ARK, dude was ready to start firing until things gunked at the end.

Then there was, despite being horribly written, Lost World where, sure, he didn't want to kill everything, but he definitely didn't care what/who died in the areas he did target.

Come on, lets not dance this game.

Again no one is saying Eggman is a nice guy. But he's always been more apathetic about who he might hurt rather than out-and-out murderous.