Detective SSMB & The Case of the Sonic 25th Anniversary "P.g. 100 is the best... food discussion started."

[Tara]

It is literally no one's fault for the way Sega brutally misconstrues fan demand.  It's not your fault if I give you a hot dog when you asked for a hamburger because I misheard you or didn't know what a hamburger was.

The fanbase has enough problems that are never discussed here without people constantly misappropriating the blame for what they don't like in the series on people who had the audacity to share their thoughts on a video game.

[WakanoBaka]

5 minutes ago, Tara said:

It is literally no one's fault for the way Sega brutally misconstrues fan demand.  It's not your fault if I give you a hot dog when you asked for a hamburger because I misheard you or didn't know what a hamburger was.

The fanbase has enough problems that are never discussed here without people constantly misappropriating the blame for what they don't like in the series on people who had the audacity to share their thoughts on a video game.

I never shifted blame. I'm just saying the fanbase is just as ganked as the company...

And back in pre-2008 there was not people just "sharing there thoughts", back on many Sonic forums, it was this or that , there was no compromise.IE, If you didn't want an SA3, you were an enemy...To blame only SEGA for only making Sonic playable, for 2D sections, for Shadow having his own game, for Lost Worlds direction,  is just denial...

11 minutes ago, Detective Mikgenes said:

It's not that "it's a cartoon!", it's that it's Sonic. Sonic has it's own specific tone written for it's kind of series. 

Well saying "city being flooded or a chunk of the moon being blasted away" isn't in the tone of the series is rather childish way of thinking, like saying Sonic CD shouldn't have exist mainly cause the bad futures are to "grown up". In Sonic Cd you could just breeze past the level, but if you aren't getting the overall message, the morality, scenic, the music, US and JP. If you don't think about that stuff, you're missing what the game is trying to say....

[Chris Knopps]

10 minutes ago, Detective Mikgenes said:

It's not that "it's a cartoon!", it's that it's Sonic. Sonic has it's own specific tone written for it's kind of series. 

No, it really, REALLY doesn't, because each "era" of the games, each cartoon, up to this very day have thrown every different kind of tone imaginable into the franchise. There is NO rule as to what specific tone/atmosphere Sonic is about, he can literally have any kind desired because he's already had most.

This whole "SAWNIC IS ONE THING!!!" argument is another debate I find ridiculous considering the franchise never has any issue changing its depth based on whims.

[Knuggles]

5 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

 

Chris Knopps makes good points but when you think about it, Eggman's design isn't even intimidating itself

I mean look at this guy, he's hilarious!

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Dashman said:

Chris Knopps makes good points but when you think about it, Eggman's design isn't even intimidating itself

I mean look at this guy, he's hilarious!

...On a side note, my nuts would be KILLING me in that...

[WakanoBaka]

2 minutes ago, Dashman said:

Chris Knopps makes good points but when you think about it, Eggman's design isn't even intimidating itself

I mean look at this guy, he's hilarious!

Yes, but look at what he's done....

That's what makes him who he is....

 

If the way a man looks judges how he is on the inside...heh, might wanna watch who you hang out with, villains don't wear black masks and fiendish capes.

[Tara]

2 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

I never shifted blame. I'm just saying the fanbase is just as ganked as the company...

And back in pre-2008 there was not people just "sharing there thoughts", back on many Sonic forums, it was this or that , there was no compromise.IE, If you didn't want an SA3, you were an enemy...To blame only SEGA for only making Sonic playable, for 2D sections, for Shadow having his own game, for Lost Worlds direction,  is just denial...

In pre-2008, SA3 was still deemed as a plausible thing because SA2 was still new, and so people were antsy about wanting another.  That being said, SSMB in particular was pretty hostile on the subject, but it's still ultimately Sega's fault for the poor method of handling it.  Blaming the fans for it is just denial.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Tara said:

In pre-2008, SA3 was still deemed as a plausible thing because SA2 was still new, and so people were antsy about wanting another.  That being said, SSMB in particular was pretty hostile on the subject, but it's still ultimately Sega's fault for the poor method of handling it.  Blaming the fans for it is just denial.

Just make the game so we ALL can move on... Oy veh...

[WakanoBaka]

3 minutes ago, Tara said:

In pre-2008, SA3 was still deemed as a plausible thing because SA2 was still new, and so people were antsy about wanting another.  That being said, SSMB in particular was pretty hostile on the subject, but it's still ultimately Sega's fault for the poor method of handling it.  Blaming the fans for it is just denial.

IMO SA3 was deemed unplausible after Heroes came out....

I never blamed ONLY the fans, I SAID 20/30% I never said 70% SEGA is just as much to blame, but I will hate them less because I wanna see a Sonic game without any fan input. Like most Sonic games pre-SA1.

The fanbase reflects the company really well. People not listening to one another and such....not referring to you

[Wraith]

Sonic CD is a game very early on that's all about the consequences of Eggman winning. I think it was executed very well there too when they used time travelling to create a contrast between a world without Eggman and a world with him. 

 

There's nothing stupid or overly gratuitous like her taking a girl off life support or "cutting a teenage girl open" or any stupid tryhard shit like that. It just shows you how much he can fuck up the world in a way anybody of any age would understand. You immediately get what the consequences are if you lose. It's all about how you present these things. It's not something that's impossible to do or "unfit for the series"

 

[Tara]

2 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

I never blamed ONLY the fans, I SAID 20/30% I never said 70%

The fanbase reflects the company really well. People not listening to one another and such....not referring to you

Tell me where I said that you blamed only the fans, let alone gave an oddly specific figure of 70%.

Even then 20% to 30% is wrong.  The fans asked for a Shadow only game.  They didn't ask for a contrived Michael Bay-esque alien game with no coherent storytelling.  They asked for another Adventure game.  They didn't ask for a broken, glitchy mess that used the same core concepts and principles.  That is literally all on Sega.

[WakanoBaka]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

Sonic CD is a game very early on that's all about the consequences of Eggman winning. I think it was executed very well there too when they used time travelling to create a contrast between a world without Eggman and a world with him. 

 

There's nothing stupid or overly gratuitus like her taking a girl off life support or "cutting a teenage girl open" or  something like that. It just shows you how much he can fuck up the world in a way anybody of any age would understand. You immediately get what the consequences are if you lose. It's al about how you present these things.

 

That plus the music and you got a very powerful message.

[Tracker_TD]

Just now, Tara said:

Tell me where I said that you blamed only the fans, let alone gave an oddly specific figure of 70%.

Even then 20% to 30% is wrong.  The fans asked for a Shadow only game.  They didn't ask for a contrived Michael Bay-esque alien game with no coherent storytelling.  They asked for another Adventure game.  They didn't ask for a broken, glitchy mess that used the same core concepts and principles.  That is literally all on Sega.

Nitpicking, but 06 wasn't in response to SA3 requests. If anything, that was Unleashed. 06 was merely intended as an "overall return to basics," regardless of how many Adventure cues it ended up taking.

History of Sonic book from Pix'n Love is a good read. 

[Tara]

Just now, Tracker said:

Nitpicking, but 06 wasn't in response to SA3 requests. If anything, that was Unleashed. 06 was merely intended as an "overall return to basics," regardless of how many Adventure cues it ended up taking.

History of Sonic book from Pix'n Love is a good read. 

I mean, fair enough, but under that same notion, the fans didn't ask for a badly-controlled Werehog that arguably took up far too much of the game's campaign and slowed things down to a crawl, so it still works kinda. XD (And I actually like the Werehog stages, but I do see why they're hugely unpopular)

[Tracker_TD]

4 minutes ago, Tara said:

I mean, fair enough, but under that same notion, the fans didn't ask for a badly-controlled Werehog that arguably took up far too much of the game's campaign and slowed things down to a crawl, so it still works kinda. XD (And I actually like the Werehog stages, but I do see why they're hugely unpopular)

Well, surely they should've been used to pace-killing alt styles that took up too much of the stage ratio after SA2!  

[Tara]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Well, surely they should've been used to pace-killers after SA2's alt styles!  

LOL, I guess, though I think a lot of people were a little bit more forgiving of it because they were carry-overs from SA1.  Incidentally, those stages are probably why I don't find the Werehog nearly as disruptive as other people, since I pretty much view them as the alternate play styles from the first two Adventure games.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Fun Fact

Sonic Heroes was apparently going to be entitled Sonic Adventure 3. However, a one Mr Iizuka decided to change it's title to Sonic Heroes because they wanted the game to appeal to people/were aware that the title Sonic Adventure may put new players off from trying it.

Source: 1-Up.com's interview with Iizuka.... which now rests somewhere in the internet archive because 1up is now dead. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Detective Hogfather said:

Fun Fact

Sonic Heroes was apparently going to be entitled Sonic Adventure 3. However, a one Mr Iizuka decided to change it's title to Sonic Heroes because they wanted the game to appeal to people/were aware that the title Sonic Adventure may put new players off from trying it.

Source: 1-Up.com's interview with Iizuka.... which now rests somewhere in the internet archive because 1up is now dead. 

Aaaannnnnd...

Where did all these years of "new market" focus get us...?

Hell, we don't even know if we're playing Sonic or Mario in a Sonic costume anymore.

[Tara]

1 minute ago, Detective Hogfather said:

Fun Fact

Sonic Heroes was apparently going to be entitled Sonic Adventure 3. However, a one Mr Iizuka decided to change it's title to Sonic Heroes because they wanted the game to appeal to people/were aware that the title Sonic Adventure may put new players off from trying it.

Source: 1-Up.com's interview with Iizuka.... which now rests somewhere in the internet archive because 1up is now dead. 

"Alright! Our next adventure awaits us, so there's no time to waste! Yeah! We're SONIC ADVENTURE 3!"

I guess that might be another reason they decided to change it.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Aaaannnnnd...

Where did all these years of "new market" focus get us...?

Hell, we don't even know if we're playing Sonic or Mario in a Sonic costume anymore.

Oh look another Sonic Lost World put down...

Sonic Heroes was deemed a good game which sold very well when it first came out.

 

[Enesephus]

Just now, Detective Hogfather said:

Fun Fact

Sonic Heroes was apparently going to be entitled Sonic Adventure 3. However, a one Mr Iizuka decided to change it's title to Sonic Heroes because they wanted the game to appeal to people/were aware that the title Sonic Adventure may put new players off from trying it.

Source: 1-Up.com's interview with Iizuka.... which now rests somewhere in the internet archive because 1up is now dead. 

That was a wise decision, because, outside of the multiple playable characters, absolutely nothing about that game felt like an Adventure game. 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Good thing it wasn't SA3 or people would be asking for Sonic Adventure 4. 

Sonic Adventure 4 as you truly imagined it.

[Diogenes]

21 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

No, it really, REALLY doesn't, because each "era" of the games, each cartoon, up to this very day have thrown every different kind of tone imaginable into the franchise. There is NO rule as to what specific tone/atmosphere Sonic is about, he can literally have any kind desired because he's already had most.

This whole "SAWNIC IS ONE THING!!!" argument is another debate I find ridiculous considering the franchise never has any issue changing its depth based on whims.

You don't even believe that yourself, else you wouldn't be so vehemently against the series' current direction.

20 minutes ago, Hero said:

I think there should be at least one incident where people get mad (in a comic relief sort of way, really.) at the guy, sorta like how Sonic X had actual humans interacting with him, I feel we could realistically see people giving him shit for whatever goofy business he's gotten up to. I know I'd like to see it. 

Well there was that one kid who pegged him with a rock in Mazuri. Though that was more of an immediate anger because he's right there being a dick, than being mad at him for his large-scale villainy.

7 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Nitpicking, but 06 wasn't in response to SA3 requests. If anything, that was Unleashed. 06 was merely intended as an "overall return to basics," regardless of how many Adventure cues it ended up taking.

Even if they've never outright said they were thinking of it as SA3, I have trouble believing they weren't when it's so blatant. And as small a detail as it might seem, I can't imagine they'd think to put in Chao in Space 3 billboards if they weren't seeing it as a continuation of the Adventures.

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Detective Hogfather said:

Oh look another Sonic Lost World put down...

Sonic Heroes was deemed a good game which sold very well when it first came out.

 

Most games were, and most games are now put down in one way or another. Genesis games, Adventure games, Boost games, there is no winner nowadays, so really it's hard to define anything as good without backlash sadly.

Praise the genesis games, get called names based around "nostalgic" and such. Praise the Adventure games, get called out being some "dark age" thing. And so on and so forth.

[Enesephus]

2 minutes ago, Detective Mikgenes said:

Good thing it wasn't SA3 or people would be asking for Sonic Adventure 4. 

Sonic Adventure 4 as you truly imagined it.

Which would be... just as annoying as people begging for Sonic Adventure 3, so I guess it wouldn't really matter, anyway.