Pontaff Retrospective: What's Up with all the Hate?

[Kuzu]

Writers never really seem to know what to do with Amy honestly.

[Nepenthe]

Amy's at her best when she's either trying to prove herself to Sonic through going on a parallel adventure or when she happens to be caught in the mix of things and needs to get into stealth or leader mode. She can be cool and competent when done right, and could potentially be a more valuable asset if utilized beyond her infatuation with Sonic.

[Shadowlax]

The best amy is comic book amy, when she gives no shits about sonic and interacting with other people who aren't sonic. I know amy is a " legacy " character, but I have always thought her sonic shtick was... sorta bad. And its why a lot of her characters turn out bad, because there might be enough there for  a lot of folks to pull out. And I don't particularly blame them. She was just kind of " girl" for  a hot minute. I have always found her to be least interesting out of... most if not all the girls in most sonic universes. comic book amy though, she's rad. I would watcher her show, just her blaze and cream going on adventures and shit. Melting pirates and annoying shadow. I would subscribe to that news letter. 

 

On the subject of pontaff, whether its him, or sega the problem is it ends up not that funny and nothing... though that describes a lot of sonic nowadays so I guess there is a connection there. 

[shdowhunt60]

It's not that comic book amy doesn't care about Sonic. That's... That's not what Archie Amy is like at all. That's not what makes her good. It's the fact that, even though she likes comic, she knows what's important. And on top of that, she has a fun and vibrant personalities.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Essentially, moderation over flanderization.

[shdowhunt60]

More like building off what was already a well rounded personality. I mean, that's what Ian did with basically everyone. Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles... They're all well rounded characters already with solid personalities already, so why not build off of that? I think at some point before the Sally Robotocization arc, I think Ian sat down and really though about how to write the characters, especially after how much of a fucking disaster issue #222 was. I think he really took a look at the Adventure games, and just built off of those. And frankly, his writing started to get far fucking better when he sat down and rethought things.

[E-122-Psi]

Would it be blasphemy to say I didn't think the comics' personalities were up to much. I mean, yeah Pontaff wasn't hardly their superior either, but something about the pre reboot personalities felt kinda bland, like they didn't so much expand off their one note quirks as much as just dilute them and leave nothing else in it's place outside generic competent hero qualities and pretentious drama. Not to mention the comic's setup didn't really leave much for unique roles and ambitions, the bigger stakes meant EVERYONE was a Freedom Fighter.

Post reboot has definitely taken an upgrade and has a lot more personality, but even then I think there are elements other interpretations do better, especially since there are some archetypes I don't think Ian can quite grasp (I feel Boom and even Pontaff have a better grip of how to give Tails' methodical side quirks and flaws, while Ian tends to be bad at giving such characters any role outside the boring, sensible straight man, with the reckless hot blooded characters only ever getting be 'fun').

[shdowhunt60]

You know, not every character that Ian writes is Sally Acorn. Just saying.

[E-122-Psi]

It's not just Sally though, Sally only stands out because she's one of the most central characters (and most hap hazardous in use). Others such as Tails still feel kinda lacking in this area, while other recent interpretations have managed to make that side of him more entertaining. Same for the likes of Rotor or NICOLE. They're not TOTALLY dull, but they are such compared to the more outgoing characters, or when they are as fun, it's because Ian randomly made their character more reckless.

[shdowhunt60]

I think that Ian writes Tails just fine. I know I tend to throw Champions out often, but it had a great arc with Tails as one of the central characters. It's Alleah Baker that struggles with him, but of course Alleah Baker's also been the one writing the Sally centric stories. Again, same goes for ROTOR.

[E-122-Psi]

Champions was a fun moment for Tails but partially because, as mentioned, it wasn't about that aspect of his character, it was about his insecurities and 'sore loser' reaction towards Honey. He has a more abrasive, childish part of his personality to fall back on. When he goes back to his tech wiz elements getting spotlight, he usually goes back to being boring. 

This is better than Sally or Rotor perhaps because at least the more outgoing side of his personality is a natural part of him that was there before rather than having to derail his character to have it just so he can hold the story, but it still means there is another side to him that goes undeveloped, and it is one others have handled better. This is why my current position of the comics is 'good but not the best'.

[shdowhunt60]

And I disagree with this. Even before Champions, we had plenty of good moments with Tails. The talk between he and his father after Sally was robotocized, pretty much every bit of interaction between him and Sonic during Countdown to Chaos....

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing bland beep boop robot Tails. I would even go as far to say, even at his worst in the comic "bland" was never his problem in the context of the comics.

If I had a problem with how Tails was portrayed nowadays, it's not something I'd've went after Ian Flynn for.

[Kuzu]

Tails being "bland" is really a byproduct of his character and personality; he's docile and mostly submissive, so obviously he's going to be a bit overshadowed by characters with much more extroverted personalities like Sonic or Knuckles. So I don't really see the issue with that honestly, especially since he's been mostly consistent personality wise (barring Pontac and Graff's take on the character). I mean, he doesn't exactly stand out....but he doesn't really need to?

Really, I would prefer it more if he had some more independent focus from Sonic in certain cases, that's what ultimately hurts his character, he's mostly tied to Sonic's hip and doesn't do much otherwise.

[Diogenes]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, he doesn't exactly stand out....but he doesn't really need to?

Considering he's one of the series' main characters...yeah, I'd say he should? Even if he's not as energetic a personality as some other characters, he shouldn't feel bland or boring.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Considering he's one of the series' main characters...yeah, I'd say he should? Even if he's not as energetic a personality as some other characters, he shouldn't feel bland or boring.

Plus he's one of the only characters Sonic Team really cares about so yeah he should stand out. 

[Kuzu]

I mean, he doesn't exactly stand out....but he doesn't really need to?

Considering he's one of the series' main characters...yeah, I'd say he should? Even if he's not as energetic a personality as some other characters, he shouldn't feel bland or boring.

Well that's why I said he should be a bit more independent from Sonic. Part of the reason he probably comes off as bland is because he rarely does anything outside of helping Sonic.

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[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

He is becoming more independent from Sonic actually, hence the attitude change in LW

[E-122-Psi]

As said though Boom and to a lesser extent Lost Worlds made Tails' personality traits more vibrant and even extended onto them, largely by going with the 'quirky bumbling inventor with a wavering attention span' direction with him. Boom Tails especially is still pretty docile and soft spoken, at least compared to his comrades, but he's not at all boring for it. In fact a lot of my favourite episodes are the ones he's the central character.

I don't get this as much with Archie Tails, or when he is interesting it's more despite this personality trait rather than because of it.

[Kuzu]

He is becoming more independent from Sonic actually, hence the attitude change in LW

See, I don't like his attitude in Lost World lol. That's like worst possible way if making him independent. I want him to be independent and not an asshole.

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[goku262002]

12 hours ago, Adamabba said:

Sonic Battle deserves more recognition for it's characterization of everybody. The writing in Sonic Battle is exemplary! The characters were really likable and understandably human, and the comedy was outright hilarious at times. The writing is really the main reason I would bother to keep playing through the very repetitive gameplay.

Speaking of which, does anyone know who wrote the story for that game?

From Retro:
 

Quote

Production Credits

Producer: Yuji Naka
Director: Tomoyuki Hayashi
Battle Mode Planner: Tomoyuki Hayashi
Story Mode Planner: Asahiko Kikuchi
Planning Support: Mizuki Hosoyamada, Ai Mashima
System & Com Programmer: Yoshihiko Toyoshima
Story Mode Programmer: Takahiro Hamano
Battle Mode Programmer: Tomoyuki Hayashi
Minigame Programmers: Nobuo Nakagawa, Yoshihiko Toyoshima
Chief Animator: Yasuda Denneikoushi
Character Animators: Sachi Nakamura, Asao Furukawa, Hiroaki Ishige, Ryuta Kawasaki, Kentaro Sakamoto
Map Designer: Toru Kawaguchi
Advertise Designers: Takeshi Ichimura, Miho Hyakutake, Takao Kawase
Minigame Designer: Takao Kawase
Illustrator: Hisanobu Kometani
Design Coordinator: Yuji Uekawa
Character Design Support: Hiroshi Tanigawa, Tomoki Miyazaki, Arito Chujo, Noriko Shibuya, Norichika Neguro, Masaru Kuribayashi
Special Thanks: Yasuko Maruyama
Sound Created By: Wave Master
Sound Creators: Tatsuyuki Maeda, Kenichi Tokoi, Hideaki Kobayashi

These 3 in bold may have formed the story together.

[shdowhunt60]

2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

See, I don't like his attitude in Lost World lol. That's like worst possible way if making him independent. I want him to be independent and not an asshole.

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I don't even see how making him a jackass makes him so independent anyways. Tails was as ineffectual and useless as he has been in just about every other game as he has been for over the past decade. Hell, you could make a case that Tails in Shadow displayed more independence than in Lost World.

I would argue that Tails as he's currently portrayed in the comics is a perfectly logical direction to take the character in a post-Adventure world, along with the rest of the main SEGA cast. Hell, even Boom managed to not fuck up and make a pretty good Tails.

[Idon'tcare]

I jut want a modern game with the Boom character interaction, but given Pontaff's previous work and how Sonic seems to become even more of a hopeless stand up comedian with each new game I just don't want them to write the next game. No amount of good gameplay can ever make for having for to deal with a paper thin plot and characterization that reduces one to a douchebag begging for a beating and the other to a doormat putting up with all kinds of shit.

Seriously, it would have been more in character for Sonic to just throw up his hands halfway through it all and run off on his own.

[Chris Knopps]

I have an idea...

The next few Sonic games... No writing whatsoever... Just the Sonic 4 route of music and motion to tell the story in cutscenes...

Sounds like a great vacation to me.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

I have an idea...

The next few Sonic games... No writing whatsoever... Just the Sonic 4 route of music and motion to tell the story in cutscenes...

Sounds like a great vacation to me.

Pretty much the "Sonic doesn't need a story" route?

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Mikyeong said:

Pretty much the "Sonic doesn't need a story" route?

No, the "Sonic doesn't need a script/voice" route, as in Sonic 4 and the unlockable cutscenes in Unleashed.

You can have just a great a story with movement and music as you can with writing. And personally... Silence DOES sound pretty golden to me after the past few games... Give Link a mute buddy to hang with for a bit.