Dr. Crusher Presents: The 30 Days of Sonic the Hedgehog Mk.II (Daft and Tolerating It)-PAGE 72, FIN

[TCB]

Question #14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

If there has been all but one thing in the history of this franchise that I read about time and time again and always seem to find a little something new about it, it just has to the the entirety of the Sonic X-Trene Saga. There's really nothing else that comes close.

It is one of those 'Urban Legend of Zelda' tales that not only surround the console legacy, but also traces to the internal problems SEGA had in the mid-to-late 90s. Everything about its lifespan intrigued me. It was supposed to be THE Sonic title for the fledgling Saturn console, but its troubled development caused it to 've outright cancelled...

Then nearly 20 years later there is STILL more to its story, even when there's an actual build of, personally, the best build that game would have had prior to its final moments. It's not only a breakthrough for the series itself, but for that time in gaming. It's well documented the hell this game went through builds, development and more, and yet it still feels there is so much more we don't know of yet.

[Celestia]

Day 14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

 

Unused Flying Dragon from Sonic Adventure

 

Seriously, this thing is actually pretty interesting to me, and always pops up in my mind whenever people bring up unused content in games. Imagine getting to fight this robotic dragon! I wonder why it was cut, anyway? Well, in any case, I'd love to see a dragon 'bot end up in a Sonic game one day as a nod to this or simply as a coincidence...okay, '06 did it with the Egg Wyvern, but that's it, unfortunately.

 

Runners up:

• Various sprites over the years, particularly in the classic games.

• This unused Special Stage in Sonic CD. You can actually access it with a code, but not through normal means.

• The Terminal Velocity Egg Pawns. Granted, they do appear in the HUB world, but not in the actual stage itself. Such a shame...also I couldn't find a good pic of them, not even a model rip?? Weird.

[Kaze no Klonoa]

Day 14: Klonoa 3 is can- I mean, the Sonic game that never was

 

I'm gonna pick something interesting today. I want to talk about one of Sonic Xtreme's earlier dev cycles, Sonic Mars.

 

That's right, this.

 

 

Sonic Mars was originally developed for the Sega 32X. Gameplay wise, it would be the first take on Sonic in 3D. I think it looks pretty cool if you ask me, but I can understand why this was instantly scrapped. It's level design is very basic, but if that was actually how the final game's levels were designed, then it would be a pretty bad game. In general, it should be using better hardware, like the SEGA Saturn. If they expanded upon the concept and applied a few of the concepts they had for X-Treme, Mars could had been a pretty interesting game to play. Granted, it probably wouldn't be good with such simplistic mechanics and game design, but I think it's concepts from those simple demo videos could have some form of potential.

 

Honorable Mentions:

-Unnamed Isometric Sonic 16-Bit Game

-Sonic SatAM 16-Bit

-Sonic Xtreme

-Sonic Saturn

[Spin Attaxx]

I guess it'd probably be Sonic 2's Lost Levels. Hidden Palace and Genocide/Cyber City in particular inspired certain locations in my story. The latter is more intriguing to me since I wonder what it'd be like. Apparently its graphics were reused in Spinball's Machine level? How'd it have looked? What would the boss have been?

 

And Hidden Palace because of how it could've altered the lore of the series drastically.

[skull902]

Question #14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

Clearly, it was branching story pathways in Sonic Adventure 2 based on morality. loljustkidding

 

Actually, I'd say Sonic Xtreme off the top of my head. I'm not a fan of the whole fish-eye camera thing, but rather I feel it odd that there wasn't a main-series game on the Saturn. So I suppose I should revise my answer to "a main series game on the Saturn." I think that if we had gotten something that played like the prototype-Adventure style from Sonic Jam's "Sonic World" (along with obvious other things like good level design and all that) it would've at least been decent.

[Osmium]

I guess it'd probably be Sonic 2's Lost Levels. Hidden Palace and Genocide/Cyber City in particular inspired certain locations in my story. The latter is more intriguing to me since I wonder what it'd be like. Apparently its graphics were reused in Spinball's Machine level? How'd it have looked? What would the boss have been?

 

And Hidden Palace because of how it could've altered the lore of the series drastically.

 

While this isn't perfect by any means, it probably would have looked a bit like this: 

 

 

 

At least something like this. Those are from a hack, but I can't imagine it would have been too different. 

 

 

Just imagine this concept art, with everything being a indigo colour. 

 

Wasn't Cyber City zone supposed to be the third act of Metropolis Zone basically? Then that means you would have gone through two acts of Metropolis and then Cyber City which is a one act zone. I've even heard that Cyber City had an identical layout to Metropolis Act 3, it would have only really been a colour change to mix things up I guess. 

 

i wonder if it would have gotten it's own music...

[TCB]

Gotta say Klonoa's post about Sonic Mars is so interesting to me too...I never seen those videos yet though!

[PickleBrows]

Day 14: Which deleted content interests you most?

 

Sonic 2006 Ring/Speed Mechanic

 

A bit of a weird one this and I can't remember where I read this from which really helps my case (he says, attempting sarcasm late at night).

 

One of Sonic 06's many cut features was apparently a mechanic where collecting rings would increase Sonic's potential top speed. The more rings you get, the higher the speed you can reach. This sounds like a really interesting idea to me and I actually could believe it as a reason as to why Sonic is so slow in the game. Maybe Sonic's top speed in the final game was merely his starting speed before collecting rings.

 

I would actually like to potentially see this idea implemented in future titles depending on the gameplay style. It would add another layer to the risk-reward balance in the game.

 

Sonic would be naturally fast by default so even a zero-ring run would be speedy with sufficient player skill. On the other hand, those who work on getting rings while maintaining their flow and time keeping would be rewarded with even more speed. This could present an interesting dilemma for speedrunners.

 

Let's say you get to a point in the level and you know there's a large group of rings in an area that's off the main path. Do you pass by it in order to keep your current pace or do you sacrifice precious moments to pick up some or even all of those rings in the hope of being able to make up and beat the time lost later on?

 

The additional risk would be that losing rings would mean some or all of that increased speed capacity is lost and you're back to your default speed. Depending on how time you've used on ring collecting in side areas, this could be catastrophic for your end time.

 

So yeah, a little mechanic that I wished we'd seen more of. I'm finishing this post after 2 AM so apologies in advance if I've not explained this as well as I could. I'll need to give this another read with fresh eyes.

[Arcade Racer CC14]

My favorite cancelled Sonic concept isn't related to the games, but the word "cancelled" is still quite relevant...

SatAM Season 3

After the cliffhanger at the end of the really great Season 2 finale, I was always interested in seeing where they'd take SatAM next. Robotnik gone? Snively and Naugus apparently taking over? You'd never expect to see this kind of status quo change in any other early 90's adventure show starring fuzzy animals. Plus, there was the potential of more game characters eventually making appearances in the universe (REALLY wanted Knuckles), more world-building with even more Freedom Fighter teams, more magical elements being explored with Naugus involved, more delving into the past, and so on. Of course, said potential couldn't be realized because the hands of fate were not kind and put an end to the series, but if I had the power, I'd LOVE to take a peek into an alternate universe and see just where the writers would've taken it had they been given the chance. But alas, we only have a few details from the head writer and several fan interpretations to satisfy us. Ah well. Here's to a great show that came to a very mysterious end.

[Your Vest Friend]

Day 14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

Mine's gonna be a very obscure one if you aren't versed with the research of SoST because it's seldom talked about. They looked at the beta screens, theorised it, and Hoshino basically outright confirmed it, so I'm going with...

 

 

Espio's prominence in Chaotix, potentially even being the starring role.

 

So what we know about the process of developing Chaotix is as thus; it started out as a prototype as Sonic Crackers, at some point it was decided that the focus should be off them and onto someone else (and in NA territories, it shifted name from Crackers to Knuckles Ring Star to Knuckles Chaotix). The intention was to make it very different but still have enough to tether it to the Sonic franchise (as said by Hoshino). As seen above, it initially said "featuring Espio the Chameleon" on the title screen. What's more, the level title cards and the credits list the characters in the same order, Espio being above Knuckles. It certainly makes sense when you think of the little details surrounding Espio; he's the one Knuckles rescues in the intro, he was designed by the very guy who designed Sonic, Eggman and other staples (the only character creation of his post-Sonic 1) so a lot of importance seems to have been placed on getting him right, he was the only creation that was actually original for this game (that wasn't just a badnik derivative), his bio in the Japanese manual mentions him being jealous of Knuckles for reasons, was the one brought back for Sonic the Fighters and he arguably had a central protagonist-friendly personality.

 

 

With that out of the way...can you imagine this game trying to stand out in the market with Espio as a lead? It is possible that Knuckles would have still been present throughout but not central, but it would have had to stood on his strength of character since he was so prominent, whether as protagonist or as important in this game as Tails in Sonic 2. What would that have meant for Espio's future as well? He might have been pushed as a solo force in later games more if they deemed it warranted. That'd be weird, Espio coming back in Adventure and him being more solo preventing the creation of Sonic Heroes (which I swear was heavily influenced by the characters and mechanics of Chaotix). Imagine Knuckles having a constant rival in a stoically conducted private eye who wants to discover more of the secrets of the ancient civilisation as per his Chaotix bio, maybe even conflicting in the Master Emerald task. Or maybe if they considered him an abject failure on his own, he would have quietly been dropped so they didn't have to revive his legacy. I don't know if that would have left the other two dry and dead, but it'd be the end of him. I honestly prefer what we have now instead to both of those scenarios, but it's still fascinating to think about.

 

 

...Oh damnit Crusher, you got me into yet another developmental theorising post!

[Sonictrainer]

Question #14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

 

I want to see the results of Sonic Team's research for Sonic Generations.

 

As mentioned before they had to make compromises with certain levels.

 

For example, Green Hill and Emerald Hill were the top voted levels and in the HD version Green Hill has the s curved roads from Emerald Hill instead of making Emerald Hill a level.

 

Which levels also had similar cases?

 

Which levels had the lowest mentions and votes?

 

Which games were considered for both versions? It could be said that the 3DS Version didn't get many handheld levels because they got levels that couldn't be included in the HD version. However, what if the handheld levels didn't get high enough votes or even mentioned when they asked?

 

Were votes different in the US, Europe, and Japan?

 

Was age considered in the research?

 

What content almost made it in?

 

Was DLC ever planned?

 

I'm really curious about this.

[Tani Coyote]

Question 14: Most Interesting Cancelled Concept

 

 

Honestly? The cancelled Archie Sonic Underground epilogue.

 

I know the show itself was terrible but I think Ian Flynn could have done it justice. They had the cover art and everything ready for it to be a milestone issue, only for Metal vs. Shard to take its place.

 

I don't know why it was cancelled (though my guess is some sort of mandate, since it's just prior to Worlds Collide), but I was naturally disappointed because I really like Manic I was very curious where he'd end the show since the actual 40 episodes left things unfinished.

 

Plus it would have wider implications for the franchise as a whole: it would be a universe where Sonic finally beat Eggman.

[Bowbowis]

Day 14: Interesting Concepts Left on the Cutting Room Floor

 

Sonic '06: All Of It

 

 

It's no secret that there were a lot of ideas for Sonic '06 that never made it into the "finished" product. In addition to the "Ring Speed" mechanic (), there was also going to be a day/night cycle and the ability to go super during normal levels in a 3D Sonic game, four years before Sonic Colors made it a reality (of course this had been planned since Adventure, which is itself another scrapped concept I'd have liked to see come to fruition). There's also the "freeplay" mode which would have, as I understand it, allowed you to play as any character in the town stages free of restrictions. Some unused text also seems to imply that every playable character would have had their own story in the game, this includes Tails, Knuckles, Rouge, Omega, Amy, Blaze, and... Wait a second... Metal Sonic!? Yeah, apparently he was going to be a playable character in the game too. In all honesty I don't think the biggest tragedy in the franchise is that Sonic '06 was poorly executed. I think that the biggest tragedy is that SEGA let the fact that it was poorly executed convince them to throw out everything associated with it, and there are some great ideas here that will probably never see the light of day because of it.

[Lisbon]

Question #14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

I know this was discouraged, but I'm going to have to concur with the post above mine. Not because I just saw it and was like "oh lol he's so right" though, because this is something I've felt ever since the game was released.

 

Sonic 06 is something that I think about from time to time, and it's something that I find to be saddening as opposed to being laughable - I look at that game and I legitimately see potential for it to be almost everything I want in a Sonic game - a focus on the fast paced, Sonic-style gameplay and a (potentially) great cast of characters. I do like Sonic's friends a lot, or most of them anyway, and this story hit just about every one of the ones I wanted to see in a major role in a way that I liked to see them. The soundtrack was amazing, I think Soleanna had a lot more potential than it ended up having, the story would've still had it's kinks regardless but if they could iron out the issues to where they're not so awkward and obvious then I think it'd be sufficient. 
 
I dunno. I see that game and I see wasted potential. I give a damn about the series, and I want it to be good. I think that game could've been not just good, but great - but it got released in an alpha state and many of the features that would've made it great were just left out because it wasn't ready to be released. 

I hate that. I think about it a lot more than I should, even all of these years later. So much could've been done right and you could tell that there was so much more that was waiting to be added, but it was incredibly far from being ready for the shelves and the quality severely suffered due to it getting pushed out far before it was ready. As a result, we got something that did a shitload of damage to the franchise instead of something that could've been one of the best offerings it could serve up.

 

Meh, I kinda want to curse Sega because the pent up frustration about this topic is real, but I'll do my best to refrain :S

[sonicgirl313]

Day 14# Favorite Scrapped Sonic Concept

If I were have to pick I guess I would have to say the scrapped content of Sonic Unleashed. It was interesting how originally Knuckles and Shadow were intended to be in the game but in the end they got scrapped. Shadow is less surprising but it was a surprise that the red echidna was kicked out. Can't help but make me wonder how they would affected the game, would have Knuckles or Shadow got into a brawl with Sonic the Werehog? Would they have been actually a miniboss of some sort? Would they help you find the chaos emeralds? These are the questions I can't help but ask myself.

[ElectricAngel]

Day 14: Which Cancelled Concept Intrigues You the Most?

 

Honestly? Sonic 06. I mean, it'd be that or Sonic Boom. But Sonic 06 is definitely something I think about when I replay the game or see others play it.

 

I remember when I first heard about the game and watched playthroughs on YouTube and people discussing some of the beta concepts that were supposed to be in the final game. A lot of this stuff sounded really interesting and I would've loved to see them in 06, or heck, a future Sonic title. Things like rings increasing your speed, the day and night system, the upgrades to Shadow and Silver. And although it wasn't confirmed, I would have loved to see the CGI cutscenes finished. Not sure if anyone noticed but there are pre-rendered cutscenes that use a "soft" version of the in-game models as I call it. My guess is they intended those to be fully CGI (since some elements in those were CGI) but never got to finish the animation. Again, it wasn't confirmed but it's an assumption I have. Then there's also the original concept of unlocking music from previous games a la Generations, Super Sonic being playable in normal stages, 

 

So much was cut from Sonic 06 and I feel it would have been a more enjoyable experience if it were finished. I can't help but think "what if they actually added everything they wanted to?" when I play the game sometimes. Makes me wish Sonic Team could try the Adventure formula again and take their time. Unleashed was fantastic, but I'd like to see something in the spirit of Adventure or 06 again. 

[Ratcicle King]

Question #14 - Scrapped Concept that interests me.

 

Sonic Generations' Story - This is honestly the thing that bugged me the most for the longest while:

Remember how Classic Tails was supposed to be Classic Sonic's Translator? That never happened. Remember how we never got a cutscene introducing Classic Tails? That ALSO Never happened. Remember how Iizuka said there was going to be a cutscene for Crisis City? That ALSO Never happened and it was one heck of a missed opportunity. Remember... THIS From the Boss trailer?

 

 

Notice the Chaos Emeralds there, which are not in the final version, meaning that for all we know, we'd have a remake of the cutscene where Perfect chaos shows up in the city and finishes his transformation, throwing the Emeralds away.

Sonic Generation's plot as a whole was a mess, it's clear there was a LOT of stuff cut, the origins of the Time Eater are half assed as hell, the fact they forgot whatever that Nega Wisp Energy blast hitting the moon was supposed to mean, Classic Tails having no introduction whatsoever, the Red Chaos Emerald being just given to you for no good reason, them implying the Time Eater has a bad reaction to the Chaos Emeralds, but it's never brought up again, Shadow and Silver just randomly showing up to fight Sonic for barely any reason, it's obvious there's a LOT of story cut here, heck even the writers said they were limited to what they could do for the plot, having almost to zero freedom, and Sonic Generations' plot had so much potential, Honestly it feels like if they had more time and freedom, the plot would've been so much more than what we got.

[Ripe]

Day 14: Favourite scrapped Sonic concept

Sonic 06 Original version.

Although I enjoy the game in certain extent, I can't deny how much wasted potential there was and how much ideas very scrapped due to rushed release. This video gives some info about what was scrapped: http://youtube.com/watch?list=PL03C41214AA847E95&v=z7wRkCE5saY

Especially I would have liked to see the day and night cyckly, it would have been great in some stages. And some things just look better, like rail grinding and homing attack.

And also Knuckles's victory pose. Does that mean that they were originally planning to have Knuckles finish a stage? I have heard that originally there was going to be some kind of freemode (play any stage with any charachter), which again would have been awesome (if they would have realised to make charachters better) and Super Sonic in normal levels. And it is pretty safe to guess that there was also more what was scrapped. I myself really hope Sega would use those scrapped ideas on future games.

And also, why game was never patched? I am sure that they could have changed some things. I mean, in team attack amigo Tails's ground speed is higher, still too slow but still.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Question #14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

I'm not ENTIRELY SURE if this counts, but Sonic Boom: Rise Of Lyric BEFORE it was turned into a Wii-U game. Now granted the gameplay probably would have still be mediocre, but I am talking more in regards to the story that was clearly being planned before sometime axed it. We saw bits and pieces of it, like Sonic learning to trust his friends despite their quirks, and some other stuff that I can't remember right off the bat. It just makes me wonder how things would have turned out if they hadn't been axed.

[Willsy]

Day 14

Honestly, I think that Sonic Boom during its development process was quite interesting. Quite a lot of things were cut from the final game, the game was not originally built for the Wii U, and of course, there were graphical downgrades. While the game probably wouldn't have been fundamentally better had the exodus at BRB and the Nintendo deal not happened, I think it would have been interesting to see the original vision for the game come to fruition. Seeing the reveal trailer and then comparing it to the final product, it's like a night and day difference, not just with graphics but with some gameplay elements too. And then there's this...

http://youtu.be/MmM28X7m_WA

While it was confirmed in the Unseen64 video that this hub was built specifically to showcase BigRedButton's work with CryEngine, It's certainly interesting to see. It's a real shame that the game couldn't have looked like this, but I doubt that prettier visuals would have saved it anyway. Overall, aside from 'tragic', it's interesting to see what occurred during Boom's development.

Oh, and the concept art. I was thoroughly surprised to see that Boom Sonic, at one point, had tan arms, as well as some of the radically different concept designs for Sonic and Eggman.

[Kiah]

Day 14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

 

SatAM Season 3 without a doubt.

 

Despite my shock and disappointment with SatAM Season 2 ending with an cliffhanger, I earnestly anticipated it all being tied up or resolved come Season 3 along with seeing the continuation of the awesome characterization of most of the characters as well as their stellar character interaction. What happened to Robotnik? Would he come back? What would Snively do? Would he be effective as a villain and be able to shine finally being out of Robotnik's shadow? Would we see more of Tails in action as an official Freedom Fighter? With Robotnik gone, would the Freedom Fighters finally be able to successfully get the derobotizer working? And whose eyes were these:

 

 

So many questions, and you couldn't believe my utter disappointment when I found out that I would never find out the answer to those questions by means of a third season of SatAM. Ten year old me cried my eyes out upon learning that SatAM was cancelled. Seriously, I was heartbroken as the cartoon I loved the most (and still do some nearly 21 years later) had come to an abrupt end.

 

Season 3 had so much potential! In line to possibly answering all if not most of those questions I asked there was the possibility of seeing characters from the Sonic video games gradually joining the Freedom Fighters. Or should I say character as Knuckles was the only character from the games that I knew about that wasn't already in SatAM. I really wanted to see him interact with the likes of Sally, Bunnie and Antoine as I had already seen Knuckles interact with Sonic and Tails. Even though it wasn't always positive

 

The plans for the 13 episodes for Season 3 per Mr. Ben Hurst had some very interesting concepts that had the intention to be written into scripts and then created into new animated episodes with the main characters and even Naugus.  Ones I would of loved to see in cartoon form to see how it would all play out.

 

 

Apparently Tails matured and would of played a much bigger role as an official member of the Freedom Fighters. See, one of my questions would of been answered had Season 3 come about and I would of been thrilled with the result as Tails' presence and development was sorely lacking for majority of the first 2 seasons of SatAM.

 

It has also been said that Sally would of been romanced by someone other than Sonic and Sonic would go through a major character change as a result. I'm not sure if I actually like the sound of that although I admit I am curious as to what those changes in Sonic's personality would of been and if they were changes for the better or for worse. Per what I said in DAY 9 OF THIS EVENT Sonic's character in SatAM is just fine flaws and all and is definitely my favorite incarnation of the character overall. So a bullet may or not had been dodged here. There is no way of ever knowing at this point among other things due to this awesome show coming to a sudden end.

[Ducktor Naldush]

Question #14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

 

The planned and now scrapped Sonic Underground epilogue.

 

Say what you will, but I kinda liked Underground. I like it more than Satam, in fact. And I've always have this sense of void whenever a series I'm watching gets cancelled. Don't get me wrong; I'm fully aware that those are fictional characters, and in the grand scheme of things I will survive the cancellation of a show. But I really wanted those guys to meet their mother and defeat Robotnik. I mean, I know that Aosth Sonic will keep on winning and making a fool of his Robotnik, Scratch and Grounder. I really don't care about Satam Sonic, he defeated his Robotnik, I guess. But Underground Sonic and his siblings will always be in limbo. And since this was the Manic show to me, it makes me sad.

 

 

Runner Up: What could have been a wonderful story but was just reduced to "Lol, Friend Saved" "You're Great Sonic" "My younger self doesn't talk" "You're great Sonic". Sonic Generations, that is.

[FriendBot]

Cut content that has me the most intrigued?

 

Well, that's pretty tough since I wasn't really into seeing cut content come into fruition. Though stuff like SatAM Season 3, the Underground Archie epilogue and 06/RoL cut content are all really good choices but one thing, that has me intrigued but hasn't been mentioned yet.

 

Is how Adventure 2 was going to do multiple story routes, that would later be used in Shadow.

 

So most of us know, that SA2 was originally going to have only Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman playable with I guess, Tails, Shadow and Rouge as NPCs. I can see that this was the case since Tails' stages were much weaker designed levels, Shadow only having 4 stages and Mad Space was made, no seriously fuck that stage.

 

But I would be curious to see how the story would go if had gone such a route, seeing as SA2's story is still highly regarded as some of the series' better narratives. What would it be like if SA2 had gone the multiple story route?

 

The world may never and I don't really mind it either.

[Klinsy]

Question #14: Which deleted/beta/cancelled/etc concept from the franchise interests you the most?

 

 

The most interesting beta thing is the entire franchise could have been different. 

 

Eggman could be the good guy and he was always in his PJs.

 

I have a ton of questions about this, would the gameplay be any different? Would differences in Eggman personalty would be made other than not being evil? If he's the good guy, than who's the bad guy?

Basically, I have a question about everything could be different. 

 

It's really interesting that we got our foe out of someone supposed to be a friend.

[#AR]

Day 13: favorite funny thing from Shadow the Hedgehog

I honestly didn't really find much of funny from Shadow the Hedgehog. Most of the stuff in that game just makes me shake my head or facepalm. I guess if I had to pick something it'd be the "you're going straight to hell!!" line. at that point I was just completely done.

Day 14: Cancelled concepts

The one that fascinated me the most is definitely Sonic Extreme.

No,not the Saturn game, the random skateboarding one found on an Xbox dev kit.

http://youtu.be/OFD7-my5G5M

Of course the early build looked crappy, but me being a giant fan of Sonic and also a giant fan of the Tony Hawk series, with a ton more polish I think it would've been pretty decent. I mean, Disney's Extreme Skate Adventure was good, so if SEGA worked with Neversoft that would've been a pretty damn sweet game overall.