Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Leebo4]

3 minutes ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

The real question would be if, at the time it was written, there was any specific idea on ST's part of who the Fourth Great Civilization was.

Also,

This seems to be in the wrong thread. Or perhaps you should have made your own thread for it, with more detail and elaboration? It's not really related to the Penders nonsense and probably deserves a happier home than this thread.

Sorry didn’t realise I was putting it in this thread and not the movie one, visited the comics thread so much I didn’t realise

[CertifiedNobody]

1 hour ago, Kazhnuz said:

Canonicity kinda works the reverse : here Sonic Chronicles reusing elements of Battle show that Battle is canon to Chronicles, not the reverse.

TBH, the only real elements making something being "canon" or not is "does it is stated as canon or not". Elsewhere we're simply creating our own (head)canons (which isn't bad, but doesn't make it official). For the moment, we have kinda trustable source that said that Chronicles isn't really seen as canon by Sonic Team. It's still officially part of the IP, but for the moment, the status is still that they don't have it as part of their canon.

But and as Ryannumber1 said, it doesn't change that SEGA own the character. ( And maybe that Chronicles is simply set permanently 2 years into the IP future )

Trusting Sega or Iizuka on the canon of the series is a bad idea. It'll be contradictory and hard to follow. Chronicles being non-canon would make it the first and only main game to not be canon, and it erases the only explanation for what Gizoids are and why Sonic Battle happened.

[Zonic 2099]

Ah yes, because Surge & Scourge have so much in common, like being born as a multiversal variant of Sonic the Hedgehog, Catfishing a bunch of girls  and later conquering their home universe.

The bitterness here.
Typically in the world of entertainment you don't actually own what you create. Whatever ideas you introduce into a comic stays in the comic where later writers can go in and play with. A pure hearted heroic character you introduce can be turned into an irredeemable villainous psychopath by another writer and permanently killed off by another.

Had Ian offed Evil Sonic instead of turning him into Scourge, nobody would have cared. He'd only be remembered as that version of Sonic who catfished a bunch of Sonic's friends.

[Razule]

58 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Trusting Sega or Iizuka on the canon of the series is a bad idea. It'll be contradictory and hard to follow. Chronicles being non-canon would make it the first and only main game to not be canon, and it erases the only explanation for what Gizoids are and why Sonic Battle happened.

Chronicles is a spin-off, I'm pretty sure. It was a different genre than the main-series, and not made by Sonic Team. Being a spin-off doesn't make it non-canon, but everything that led to it not getting a sequel probably does.

There are a bunch of things about Chronicles that don't fit with the game series, like the characterizations or heavy inspiration from the Western elements of the franchise. Not like inconsistencies' stopped things from being canon before, but if they're never going to acknowledge it again it doesn't really matter.

[SBR2]

Jeez. This has gone from funny delusional to sad delusional. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

47 minutes ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Ah yes, because Surge & Scourge have so much in common, like being born as a multiversal variant of Sonic the Hedgehog, Catfishing a bunch of girls  and later conquering their home universe.

The bitterness here.
Typically in the world of entertainment you don't actually own what you create. Whatever ideas you introduce into a comic stays in the comic where later writers can go in and play with. A pure hearted heroic character you introduce can be turned into an irredeemable villainous psychopath by another writer and permanently killed off by another.

Had Ian offed Evil Sonic instead of turning him into Scourge, nobody would have cared. He'd only be remembered as that version of Sonic who catfished a bunch of Sonic's friends.

The term "Stones in Glass Houses" doesn't even begin to fit the level  of ignorance, spite, idiocy, delusions of grandeur and lunacy that Mr. Penders has put on display.

The man who pawned off Scourge as his own fully designed creation is essentially calling Ian a two-bit crook who "usurped" his original designs. He sure didn't seem to have any problems when said "usurping" was the poster boy for a comic that he gave his license and blessing to.

And he knew exactly what he was doing, trying to help make a buck off of fans desperate for Scourge.

He's in no position to scream holier than thou, but by god, he just keeps on going and going.

I honestly have to wonder if his mind will just shut down the minute SEGA give the okay to use Shade in anything.

[SkullPirateMike]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:34 AM, Adamis said:

I tweeted this the other day : https://twitter.com/AdamisFox/status/1465060318451744770?s=20

In case there was any doubt that Penders still believes this, he tweeted this today.
 

I tried to explain copyright law to him back when he was saying they can't give Echidnas advanced technology because he owns that idea (he cannot legally own that idea), but it seems like he's just going to keep living by his own bizarro copyright rules until he actually gets sued for something.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

It's absolutely fucking baffingly how many lapses of logic are just on form here. Between SEGA 'not putting up a battle for Shade' (A battle they don't need to put up currently because Penders both got that lawsuit thrown out of court several times, and because there isn't a battle to fight for her at the moment), but the utter idiocy of his claims that it's big boogy man Ian Flynn who is not giving the fans what they want is just absolute drivel. 

This is the same man who has lambasted SEGA numerous times for their restrictions, and yet he just seems to think Ian gets to bypass those restrictions because???

It's so pathetic how he just wants to try rally FF and Archie fans against Ian, putting out both blatantly false, and just incredibly idiotic statements such as this. I sincerely hope everyone has enough sense to see through the obvious bullshit he's trying to pander here. 

As for his claims that 'SEGA hasn't battled him for Shade', we'll see how that goes when he actually tries to use her, and infringes on SEGA's copyright, because something tells me that 'battle' he so desperately wants won't turn out in the favour he's looking for.

[Zaysho]

Quote

With regards to my use of the character Shade, I have no plans to use her other than a couple sentences in Julie-Su's bio and a 2 or 3-panel sequence in a story, that's it. The reasons I'm doing it are strictly legal in the interests of protecting THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES.

Maybe this is bias speaking, but this sounds mostly like admission that he knows he doesn't own Shade which is why he's doing the stupid workarounds. Julie-Su and Shade are distinct creations, and it sounds more like he's just retroactively appending a nickname onto Julie for the sake of making Sonic fans think he will give them what they want (he won't) because of what he perceives as demand, which isn't much different from that Rush Comics disaster with Scourge last month.

The encyclopedia already proves he doesn't own her, and no matter how much he wants to say it's Ian being sneaky, Sega wouldn't have let that fly. The only way he'd have a case for it at this point is if the book actually was delayed to remove Chronicles from it.

[Kazhnuz]

6 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Trusting Sega or Iizuka on the canon of the series is a bad idea. It'll be contradictory and hard to follow. Chronicles being non-canon would make it the first and only main game to not be canon, and it erases the only explanation for what Gizoids are and why Sonic Battle happened.

It's their serie, they basically decide their canon. You/we can make up your/our own version of the canon, of course, but tbh, it's not "trusting" them, they're not some kind of scholar talking about an external subject, they "create" the canon. And Chronicles is more a spin-of.

( And it doesn't really explain anything about Battle, as Battle doesn't really care about what the Fourth Civilisation, it's just some background to explain "Emerl is Gizoid, that ancient robot that can copy every capacity". It's more Chronicles that need Battle than the opposite, story-wise. But we're getting off-topic. )

1 hour ago, SkullPirateMike said:

I tried to explain copyright law to him back when he was saying they can't give Echidnas advanced technology because he owns that idea (he cannot legally own that idea), but it seems like he's just going to keep living by his own bizarro copyright rules until he actually gets sued for something.

His whole vision of copyright (and creation) is "if I've touched it, it's mine".

- Character that he derivate from official character should be his, as he created the derivative version.

- Every character derivated or inspired by his character (which also mean character he derivated) should be him, as he created the original version.

- Every character that he touched become his and he can create nearly no-difference expy, because he "made them popular".

 

Sometimes, I wonder if he ACTUALLY believe what he say.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

32 minutes ago, Kazhnuz said:

Sometimes, I wonder if he ACTUALLY believe what he say.

I guess someone has to, it might as well be him.

[CertifiedNobody]

7 minutes ago, King Scoopa Koopa said:

I guess someone has to, it might as well be him.

I almost want to try and get him to publish a novella, short story, or even some merch about Shade just to get Sega to prove him wrong.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

2 hours ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

 

It's so pathetic how he just wants to try rally FF and Archie fans against Ian, putting out both blatantly false, and just incredibly idiotic statements such as this. I sincerely hope everyone has enough sense to see through the obvious bullshit he's trying to pander here. 

Believe me. Some of the hardliner will eat it up.

 

 

[horridus]

1 minute ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

Believe me. Some of the hardliner will eat it up.

That's all he's really got at this point. Every time he pulls this crap he's just performing for them because it gives him the veneer of having an actual fanbase, rather than a remnant of one niche part of a wider fandom that's allowed itself to be completely eaten from the inside out by nostalgia. 

[Zonic 2099]

Pretty sure IDW Sonic isn't going anywhere anytime soon. SEGA's got absolutely no reason to yank the license away and to my knowledge the comic is sell well enough.

I may have enough knowledge about Hasbro to get by but given that Disney is perfectly capable of having Marvel publish their own Star Wars Comics and... well Marvel's own comic series they don't really need to spend the extra money. Disney's yanked away licenses before and they will continue to do so.

Also considering that Sonic as a comic has sold well enough to last nearly 25 years... I'd say even IF SEGA for whatever reason yanked the comic from IDW there's still a pretty fair chance they'll give it to another company.

[Dr. Detective]

That Clownfish TV youtube channel made a video before the pandemic kicked off about how IDW was going to be toast in a few months as well. 

So, unless I've been reading a bunch of phantom comics for the past year or so I think we're good. At least until someone with actual credibility says something worthy of note.

[Kazhnuz]

Yikes, so now Penders is linking one of these shitty "geek news site" that is more conspiracy theories than real news.

[Rabbitearsblog]

44 minutes ago, Kazhnuz said:

Yikes, so now Penders is linking one of these shitty "geek news site" that is more conspiracy theories than real news.

This just goes to show just how delusional Penders is becoming...

[King Scoopa Koopa]

23 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

This just goes to show just how delusional Penders is becoming...

Becoming?

[Rabbitearsblog]

57 minutes ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Pretty sure IDW Sonic isn't going anywhere anytime soon. SEGA's got absolutely no reason to yank the license away and to my knowledge the comic is sell well enough.

I may have enough knowledge about Hasbro to get by but given that Disney is perfectly capable of having Marvel publish their own Star Wars Comics and... well Marvel's own comic series they don't really need to spend the extra money. Disney's yanked away licenses before and they will continue to do so.

Also considering that Sonic as a comic has sold well enough to last nearly 25 years... I'd say even IF SEGA for whatever reason yanked the comic from IDW there's still a pretty fair chance they'll give it to another company.

There's a lot of things about this article that I just don't buy:

1) All of this is just related to Hasbro and the article never said anything about IDW losing the license to Sonic.  Even if IDW do lose the Hasbro titles, they still got other comic books to rely on, like I think that they will still have Ninja Turtles since the Ninja Turtles aren't owned by Hasbro.  Also, they can always get other properties that are not owned by Hasbro and make comic book series about them.

2) As far as I know, the Sonic comics are still selling well, so there's really no reason for SEGA to pull the Sonic comics away from IDW, unless they are having a bad relationship with IDW, like what happened with Archie Comics.

3) Clownfish TV is not really a reliable source.  They are known for making videos and articles that make everything sound like drama, even though things aren't as bad as they make them out to be.

4) While I do agree that SEGA mandates regarding the Sonic series can be annoying at times, I don't think they are bad enough where no company wants to deal with them.  If the mandates came down to SEGA controlling what the writers should write and what stories they want the writers to write, then yes, it can become difficult for any other company to deal with SEGA since those terms are a bit too overbearing.  However, so far the mandates are not on that level of control and I can definitely see any other comic book company wanting to pick up a hot title like Sonic.

[Razule]

I'm sure SEGA's not the most unreasonable about how they want their characters to be compared to the other licensors IDW works with. And it's Sonic the Hedgehog, there'd be plenty of people clamoring for it.

[GentlemanX]

"IDW might lose Hasbro licenses - likelihood of multiple, additional new Sonic the Hedgehog ongoing series skyrockets!".

I too can create sensational, baseless headlines off of hypothetical information. Penders is linking to Clownfish because of confirmation bias; as other shave said they're not a reliable source.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that Penders has just contradicted himself on the exact same day? He earlier claimed that Ian Flynn is essentially just 'playing fans for suckers', because apparently he just thinks Ian likes teasing and taunting people about characters, and is specifically trying to spite them for...some reason - and that actually Ian could somehow just add all of these characters back in no issues whatsoever without SEGA's say so...

...but then he decides to post a blatantly dumb doomsaying article (a doomsaying article that was posted last year during the start of the pandemic as well), and tries to make the claim that 'actually, no other comic publishers would want to work with SEGA due to their terms', indicating - once again - about the restrictions SEGA places on writers and the like. So which is it? Is SEGA too hard to work with due to their terms and restrictions? Or is Ian just trying to spitefully screw around with people on the internet, having some petty vendetta for some reason?

(That's a rhetorical question. Let's also just ignore the fact that Ian has fought to include the Freedom Fighters numerous times, and literally the only reason that we got them in post-reboot Archie was because he fought tooth and nail with SEGA to get them, and had to use the previous Archie continuity to bolster his argument for keeping them in).

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Oh yeah, because ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ELSE would want to pick up the comic book rights to the one of the most popular videogame series of all time? So much so that it had a comic series spanning over a decade prior at Archie.

Like, Penders really can't seem to fathom that the series is still afloat without his self-proclaimed "genius" at the helm.  My god.

[KingMario05]

56 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Oh yeah, because ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ELSE would want to pick up the comic book rights to the one of the most popular videogame series of all time? So much so that it had a comic series spanning over a decade prior at Archie.

Like, Penders really can't seem to fathom that the series is still afloat without his self-proclaimed "genius" at the helm.  My god.

Two decades, actually. If IDW either gives up or loses the license (which... lol, no), then Boom! or Dark Horse are right there waiting for it.