Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Kazhnuz]

58 minutes ago, KingMario05 said:

Could one of them be a team representing Prime?

I'm pretty sure that everybody working on official Sonic properties want to stay clear of Penders XD

If they want an "evil Sonic", they can create one pretty easily, it's one of the most common tropes that exists, and they are a lot of versions of this tropes that haven't been used yet (and honestly, if I would be them (which mean that it's JUST my opinion) and that I wanted an evil Sonic, I would avoid Scourge especially now that Surge is here : the resemblance of name and appearance would be detrimental IMO. If they want an "evil Sonic" for their show, they should give him a new appearence/name to be clear of all that.)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Yeah, honestly, if anything, Surge could prove to be a good enough expy to use.

Or at least she shows how easy it is to make a new evil Sonic without having to kowtow to Penders. 

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

It seems like that Rush comic website has been privated. Even though it was the scourge comic that got scrapped.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

1 hour ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Yeah, no. That's more so wishful thinking.

First off, Ken owns the character of an Evil Sonic that eventually became Scourge. He does not own the concept by a long shot.

Secondly,  the demand for Scourge is not that great that a big official team working on an actual Sonic project would come crawling down on Penders' level to ask him permission. 

Third, I highly doubt that a team that was also relying on a patreon page would've outbid the team working on this show.

Fourth, even if they did, do you really think that Ken's who would have him pass off on the chance to be able to boast that a tv company came to him to license out the character on a tv show which tends to get more coverage than a comic?

Fifth and finally. He could easily have just given out different licenses. One for television rights and the other for comics, of what you suggest was the case.

Don't forget sixth, and possibly most importantly: SEGA would probably veto the hell out of that idea.

[Rabbitearsblog]

6 hours ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Yeah, honestly, if anything, Surge could prove to be a good enough expy to use.

Or at least she shows how easy it is to make a new evil Sonic without having to kowtow to Penders. 

I agree that they don't have to use Scourge at this point, especially now that they got Surge to be a good enough replacement.  This would prevent SEGA with having to deal with Penders in regards to using Scourge, which at this point, it's not really necessary to use Scourge in the current comics.

[CertifiedNobody]

2 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I agree that they don't have to use Scourge at this point, especially now that they got Surge to be a good enough replacement.  This would prevent SEGA with having to deal with Penders in regards to using Scourge, which at this point, it's not really necessary to use Scourge in the current comics.

Surge really doesn't feel enough like an "evil sonic", so It'd probably just be best to make a new character, or even bring back something like Cinos or Fleetway/dark Super Sonic

[Zaysho]

These companies don't have any need to go through third-parties like Penders to secure rights to basic-ass ideas like an "evil version of Sonic." Anybody can come up with one (never mind we have Metal Sonic--another "Sonic clone" that has had his own identity crisis before); Penders just thinks he's selling something special because it came from a comic people liked and was forcefully removed (due in part to his own actions) and ignores that the value the character has comes from his relation to Sonic when one writer (that was not him) cared to explore it.

And in the same vein, I feel it undersells Surge as a character to act like she's a replacement of Scourge. I've read Ian's Scourge storylines multiple times, and I read "Impostor Syndrome" #1 a few days ago and I can't see where the comparisons even come from other than "being green and having an attitude" when nothing about the way they're written felt alike to me at all. The book is so blatant (not in a bad way, I'm making a point) about how Surge questions why she even needs to follow Starline's orders and fighting her programming, compared to how Scourge wants to not be Sonic's double so badly he eventually forces an entire dimension to alter its identity. It's well done and shows that the IDW team is not recycling old ideas.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

49 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

These companies don't have any need to go through third-parties like Penders to secure rights to basic-ass ideas like an "evil version of Sonic." Anybody can come up with one (never mind we have Metal Sonic--another "Sonic clone" that has had his own identity crisis before); Penders just thinks he's selling something special because it came from a comic people liked and was forcefully removed (due in part to his own actions) and ignores that the value the character has comes from his relation to Sonic when one writer cared to explore it.

And in the same vein, I feel it undersells Surge as a character to act like she's a replacement of Scourge. I've read Ian Scourge storylines multiple times, and I read "Impostor Syndrome" #1 a few days ago and I can't see where the comparisons even come from other than "being green and having an attitude" when nothing about the way they're written felt alike to me at all. The book is so blatant (not in a bad way, I'm making a point) about how Surge questions why she even needs to follow Starline's orders and fighting her programming, compared to how Scourge wants to not be Sonic's double so badly he eventually forces an entire dimension to alter its identity.

On top of that, it's also worth noting that one of the factors that drove into the downfall of this Scourge comic, on top of the shitty views of the lead artist was Penders himself. No matter how you get around it, both the circumstances of the usage of Scourge, and the simple phrase of 'In association with Ken Penders' is enough to make the comic dead on arrival for quite a lot of people.

For most of the Sonic fanbase aware of him, he either doesn't exist, or if they are even marginally aware of Penders, he's a complete jackass who makes weird and often times - creepy comments - on random Sonic characters, and who had managed to begin the cracks that would eventually lead to Archie Sonic's downfall (Keeping in mind - he isn't why Archie Sonic bite the dust, but he's arguably the initial spark to the fire that caused SEGA to lose trust in Archie, and eventually rip the license from them). 

For those who were tapped into Archie Sonic, Penders was the person who ripped away a lot of liked characters, not even just his own, but those of other creators, including the likes of Mina, Finitevus, Fiona, and so on, but forcefully caused a gigantic reboot that altered the story they were reading to that point, and largely made a lot of Archie Sonic entirely non-canon, and while a fair amount of people were still willing to get the series a chance following the reboot, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of long-time readers lost a series and universe they cared a lot about because of Penders' actions.

And then there's the people who have the slightest bit of context on Scourge's creation, and who find it immensely scummy and just downright wrong that Penders is not only allowed to pretend that 'Evil Sonic the Hedgehog' is a copyrightable original character, but that he has literally claimed he is the owner of a design and personality that was not remotely his own, without even providing any credit whatsoever to Patrick Spaziante for the design, or Mike Pellerito for the personality/name change, or the fact that it was Ian and Tracy's hard work and effort that built Scourge up into the character that people actually liked.

Penders did quite literally zero work on any aspects relating to Scourge as a character, and Scourge as a character is so far removed from the utter pathetic joke that Evil Sonic was in general that it just feels plain bad to a lot of people that Penders just gets to waltz in and pretend that he owns this character and can license it out to whoever (possibly even opening those creators up to trouble from SEGA, if SEGA decided to step in about it) when both the origins of Evil Sonic is on far shakier ground than any of Penders' other unique creations, and that Penders had literally shit all to do with the version of the character people are actually interested in using. That's not even touching the even more ridiculous lengths he tries to reach to claim he owns other characters he had absolutely zero hand in creating (Shade). 

With all of those things together, there's a lot of people who would refuse to support these efforts and projects on that basis alone, solely because they don't want to support Penders, in any way, shape, or form. If any of these third-party companies randomly decided to get down onto Penders' level and feel the need to license these characters from him, and being in association with him, a lot of people are just not gonna be interesting on the sheer basis that they don't want to encourage and support Penders' shitty behaviour. 

And at the end of the day, why bother? The damage is already done, the original series is dead, fan-creators are already continuing Scourge's, and others' stories in a non-profit fan capacity, without Penders' involvement (Archie Sonic Online), and ultimately, it's less hassle and less chance of pissing off people to just create your own variation of a 'Evil Sonic' than trying to deal with Penders' nonsense. As much as Penders desperately wants to claim these characters are big names and would draw the attention of many readers, SEGA already have all the big hitters they need. People are buying a Sonic comic for Sonic, plain and simple. Why go through the trouble of paying someone who already dragged you a lot of legal problems when you can just keep your money and create new characters to fulfil the same niche? Especially if - from what we've seen from this entire debacle - Penders' name being associated tends to hurt the project more than help it? 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I think all in all, the moral here is that honestly, the alternative of Scourge just resting in peace, far outweighs the idea of giving Ken even so much as a micro-inch with this licensing crap scheme, for ANY reason.

The man who essentially back-stabbed Ben Hurst, screwed over Sonic SATAM, and indirectly destroyed an entire comic era with his pettiness and ego, does not deserve to profit off Scourge who damn well, is not even the creation he intended or even really made.

[horridus]

13 hours ago, Demon Slayer Ultima said:

It seems like that Rush comic website has been privated. Even though it was the scourge comic that got scrapped.

Boy. The future of Penders Brand is looking pretty bright around now. NOTHING draws potential licenseees like 'The last company to associate with me went into lockdown a few days after making its relationship with me public!'. 

[Rabbitearsblog]

3 minutes ago, horridus said:

Boy. The future of Penders Brand is looking pretty bright around now. NOTHING draws potential licenseees like 'The last company to associate with me went into lockdown a few days after making its relationship with me public!'. 

It's like anybody who tries to associate themselves with Penders has their careers go down in flames.  I can see why SEGA doesn't want anything to do with him anymore.

[Zaysho]

The Penders association is more something that just pisses off Sonic fans because he's a self-important jackass that has a lot to do with what happened to the Archie comic (Archie themselves also having a lot to do with what happened), and he never shut up and left even after getting what he wanted.

At the end of the day, all he did was provide a spotlight and a platform for smaller creators who had no following prior but also appeared to be unsavory in general. I think the project/team would've gotten a very similar response even if they were squeaky clean (far less harsh and probably more focused on the inane fact that Penders is doing this at all), but the Rush team made it clear they couldn't deal with the heat when questioned on their past works and the artist's apparent leanings.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Another update from TKP - it turns out that the supposed first deal in regards to Scourge was in fact an elaborate lie told to TKP, and as such, she's removed it from the summary and apologised:

https://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/post/668521592300748800/hi-everyone-this-post-has-been-updated-to-remove

Quote

Hi everyone. This post has been updated to remove the section discussing the rumor about the other Scourge licensing deal that I had been privately contacted about in October, as that’s ended up being an elaborate lie. None of that ever actually happened. I’m very, very sorry for adding to the confusion

Everything else here should still be accurate, though, as it’s based on publicly available information

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Another update from TKP - it turns out that the supposed first deal in regards to Scourge was in fact an elaborate lie told to TKP, and as such, she's removed it from the summary and apologised:

https://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/post/668521592300748800/hi-everyone-this-post-has-been-updated-to-remove

 

God help us if that was lie made by you-know-who just to make Ken's licenscing seem more valuable and sought after than it really is.

[Zaysho]

20 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

God help us if that was lie made by you-know-who just to make Ken's licenscing seem more valuable and sought after than it really is.

Considering the lie includes that he scammed a previous group, it's more than likely someone just making shit up to rile up the Sonic fanbase against someone many of them already have legitimate reasons not to like. This isn't actually new with Penders, and I don't know how after all this time people feel it necessary to make up things when there's so many actual things he's said and done to reference.

The story never really made much sense to me when they brought up that he tried to keep the money, and I think that's a particularly damaging thing to have spreading around. It's not TKP's fault, obviously, since they got taken for a ride too, so it's just unfortunate it happened.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

I'm more surprised that no one brought this up already (unless it took a while and I missed it while flipping back) than I am that he did this.

Bringing it up because I bet he's interested in making his own crypto. Something about owning art that other people buy URLs to see just seems like something he'd be into.

Wonder what he'd call them, though? Echidollars? Ecoi'nyas? Floating Island Funny Money? SoNFT the Hedgefunds? Mobiums?

[AlienBunny]

Free NFTs? I don't believe that. It's just art they're giving out isn't it?

Because NFTs have something called a "Gas fee" that you need to pay if you post one. From what I understand, they're expensive and fluctuate with the value of the market.

Also a lot of people think NFTs are a get rich quick type deal, but there is a bunch floating around and few get purchase.

If Penders ever goes into NFTs, I can only see a really obsessed fan paying for one.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

1 hour ago, AlienBunny said:

If Penders ever goes into NFTs, I can only see a really obsessed fan paying for one.

Guess he's either in luck or making the right play, if he does, because I'm pretty sure those are the only fans he has left.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

11 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Considering the lie includes that he scammed a previous group, it's more than likely someone just making shit up to rile up the Sonic fanbase against someone many of them already have legitimate reasons not to like. This isn't actually new with Penders, and I don't know how after all this time people feel it necessary to make up things when there's so many actual things he's said and done to reference.

If you can believe it, apparently it’s both more complicated and even sillier than just trying to rile people up:

https://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/post/668536001726234624/im-biting-my-tongue-and-its-honestly-not-worth

Quote

I’m biting my tongue and it’s honestly not worth getting into, but believe me when I say that the story behind the nonexistent Scourge licensing deal that got passed on to me is extremely asinine, but also not as simple as “a Sonic fan showed up in my inbox and made up some shit about Penders for the millionth time.” It’s deeply stupid. There’s teen drama involved, somehow

I am so tired

 

[CertifiedNobody]

8 hours ago, King Scoopa Koopa said:

I'm more surprised that no one brought this up already (unless it took a while and I missed it while flipping back) than I am that he did this.

Bringing it up because I bet he's interested in making his own crypto. Something about owning art that other people buy URLs to see just seems like something he'd be into.

Wonder what he'd call them, though? Echidollars? Ecoi'nyas? Floating Island Funny Money? SoNFT the Hedgefunds? Mobiums?

This sounds like the type of post that'd send me to a sketchy website asking me to fill out my credit card info.

[Zaysho]

In fairness this is probably an auto-post because he might have linked his Twitter to the DC thing. I mean, it's kind of stupid because people who get into NFTs start talking like bots selling a timeshare anyway, but that's probably not what's happening.

8 hours ago, AlienBunny said:

Also a lot of people think NFTs are a get rich quick type deal, but there is a bunch floating around and few get purchase.

It's got nothing but marketing hype trying to push it (to the point I've seen artist accounts hacked by these idiots). I visited a website that sells them once when I was hearing about artists' work being stolen (and there is a lot of that), just randomly searched "Sonic" in case an old zine piece of mine was in there and the search was flooded with stolen game assets, fan art, fucking Sonichu, and other things. There is no value behind these stupid hyperlinks (you do not own the art; you own an instance of it that's stored on a server).

edit: the more I think about it, this is pretty off-topic, never mind it's a month old. It's not worth discussing beyond "NFT's bad" unless he starts linking LSC to the crypto space. Which at most I just have to give a sigh and shrug of my shoulders if a creator willingly goes into them versus all the scams and hacking other artists have had to deal with.

[Rabbitearsblog]

5 hours ago, Zaysho said:

In fairness this is probably an auto-post because he might have linked his Twitter to the DC thing. I mean, it's kind of stupid because people who get into NFTs start talking like bots selling a timeshare anyway, but that's probably not what's happening.

It's got nothing but marketing hype trying to push it (to the point I've seen artist accounts hacked by these idiots). I visited a website that sells them once when I was hearing about artists' work being stolen (and there is a lot of that), just randomly searched "Sonic" in case an old zine piece of mine was in there and the search was flooded with stolen game assets, fan art, fucking Sonichu, and other things. There is no value behind these stupid hyperlinks (you do not own the art; you own an instance of it that's stored on a server).

edit: the more I think about it, this is pretty off-topic, never mind it's a month old. It's not worth discussing beyond "NFT's bad" unless he starts linking LSC to the crypto space. Which at most I just have to give a sigh and shrug of my shoulders if a creator willingly goes into them versus all the scams and hacking other artists have had to deal with.

I've been trying to figure out for awhile about why many people don't like NFTs.  What's so bad about them?  Sorry, I'm not that familiar with NFTs.

[Zonic 2099]

You don't actually own the art and worse yet they are very bad for the environment.

Also it seems Ken is looking to relaunch his website.

 

[Rabbitearsblog]

58 minutes ago, Zonic 2099 said:

You don't actually own the art and worse yet they are very bad for the environment.

Also it seems Ken is looking to relaunch his website.

 

Ah, I see.  Don't know why NFTs exist then.  I never even knew that Penders had a website.

[Zaysho]

1 hour ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I've been trying to figure out for awhile about why many people don't like NFTs.  What's so bad about them?  Sorry, I'm not that familiar with NFTs.

They're a scam that give people an illusion of ownership over digital collectibles that's stored on a blockchain, but it's just a URL token to a specific instance. Think the equivalent of buying a poster of the Mona Lisa. It's also just a really unstable investment. There's also some studies about the effects of blockchain technology/crypto-mining about the amount of energy consumption which is apparently very big even on a smaller scale (I've seen comparisons of the consumption of gaming which is very large scale, so if minting NFTs/crypto can do the same on a smaller scale, I can see why people don't like them for that reason), but that's not a particular aspect I really looked into.

Mostly I've seen artists have their work stolen or accounts hacked to promote them while people claim that these things actually help artists (they don't, unless the artist goes into the space themselves) and they're basically used as get-rich-quick schemes and sometimes for moving money around.

This is a very shorthanded summary based on my observations and seeing how frustrated artists are with these things, so don't take me as the definitive source.