Official Sonic 2006 topic

[DBZHedgy]

One of the more perplexing issues with this game are the double loads every time you accept a quest. The only reason I can imagine for them would be the dialog system not able to deal with saying the extra line when a mission is accepted, so they need to reload the entire state because they, for some reason, made the game handle data as a finite state machine. Makes no sense.

Yea, that was pretty stupid. One of the few things I can entirely agree on. The loading times are quite frequent and for a sonic game that is quite the issue. Since this game has horrible loading times, than I presume that games with such Loading times, or even worse are ashamed for such loading times correct?

 

I think this could be over really quickly if the guy would just accept that "fun to play" and "good quality game" are not the same thing. Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic & the Black Knight are not especially great games, but I enjoy playing them a lot though likely not for the reasons intended to sell large amounts of copies.

 

Sonic 06 is an awful, awful, AWFUL quality game, but there's absolutely ways to have genuine fun playing it, and if this guy has found his fun then I'm really happy for him. Do wish he'd stop being so gosh darned condescending, but I guess that's how it goes when you're convinced you're right and everyone is still ganging up against you. You are not wrong, but you're arguing from the wrong position.

I never said that the game had high quality did I? I never said that any other games were inferior by fact either. I've only said why I enjoy this game over other entries. Whereas, people are CONSTANTLY stating the Sonic 06 is the worst game, when that is only opinion. I thought we respected each other's opinions around here...

Quality is Defined BY OPINION, you cannot state it as if it were fact, yet people still constantly do. If you do, your simply making a fallacy for believing So.

 

I never said or implied  in anyway that I was superior to anyone. All I did was ask make a statement. And that statement was "I don't see why people hate it" and discussion ensued. If I had said that I was superior to this right AFTER I had apologized for doing so initially THEN I would be considered condescending.

 

I always found that pretty odd too. Even an unfinished game shouldn't have any reason to reload the entire world (which it clearly has to, considering loading times are identical to every other time you enter the area) to display one line of dialogue and change the music. In fact save for a small handful of the sidequests (specifically the racetrack area built specifically for them and is inacessible any other way) there really shouldn't be any loading times - just a script to temporarily delete/relocate NPCs and spawn in the shit relevant to the quest.

 

This doesn't even strike me as an oversight, because if anything displaying the post-confirm dialogue immediately after accepting a quest would be easier to program than how they handled it in 06. Who the fuck would do that conciously? Did anyone even have a set plan of how they were going to make this game before they started?

I recall quite a few games having such dreadful loading times as well. It doesn't excuse the fact that 06 does it, but the judging upon which other games have done this should be as low as well. Not saying that it isn't of course.

 

 

First, as a note, countering hostility with more hostility is a pretty poor method of getting anyone to see your side of the argument.  If you feel you have to insult others anywhere, even a place notorious for its blunt and uncensored nature such as YouTube, an argument whereby you call people names and devalue the opinions of others is an argument that will never reach an end.

 

Second, apologizing for a sour tone does not mean your original points are no longer up for debate.  Anything you post here is subject to debate.  That's how a forum works.

 

Third, no offense, but you seem to have a very loose definition of the word "attack."  While we have had to get onto a few members due to the very nature of this being a topic specifically for the most derisive Sonic game currently released, the fact is that few, if any, have outright attacked your opinion on the matter.  They have merely expressed disagreement, cynical and blunt as they may sometimes be.

 

I respect that you apologized and changed your tone quickly, but that wasn't even the point of my last post.  My point being that you gave your opinion on the matter and members are discussing it.  Even if you had posted your original points in a more respectful manner, at the end of the day, many of your points are still fallacious and often fail to actually credit the game in question.  If you really feel that your opinion is being attacked or otherwise disrespected, please do give me specific instances and I'll be happy to take them into account, but as is, you're sort of coming across as self-victimizing.

I don't recall being hostile as a response...

After realizing how wrong I was about the forum, I apologized, yet people still continue to call me "naive" or "blinded" and such while it is in fact incorrect. Being called such names, as incorrect as they are, doesn't help the fact either. I made amends for being so ignorant before, but what about everyone else? You say that fighting Hostility with Hostility is a bad thing, yet I'm not the only person responsible for this.

 

I know, in fact I'm glad that people still took my points into account even though I did have a sour tone. However, it seems as though the people responding to me are more condescending then I am considering they treat the situation as if the game is terrible by fact. Since it isn't a fact, I've been tenuously giving saying rather repeatedly that it isn't fact. Yet it is still treated as such.

 

The word attack means "an aggressive and violent action against a person or place." Seeing as how people cannot respect my opinion and GREATLY emphasis how wrong I am for thinking in such a manner, that would indeed mean that I am being "attacked" for my opinion. Does it not?

 

But, I'm not saying that you have to agree with me about my points. This is the reasons why I like the game, and since people are discussing it I respect that, and counter as followed suit. However, I am most certainly not being fallacious seeing as how the points I've made are only interpretations of how I viewed what has appeared in the game. If I am being Fallacious than that means that everyone else is being fallicous as well since they all have their own interpretation of the game right?

 

 

The way I see it, it was probably easier for them to program it to load the entire hubworld than program it to load a select place on the hubworld.

 

They probably would have done that in a later build, too.

 

They did do that actually... Many parts of the Hub world are missing when loading a mission that only takes place in a select part. Quite a few parts of the Hub beyond the invisible wall barriers when taking on a mission or boss are gone, and collision with walls are gone.

 

Well, I presume it's because Sonic 1's excuse plot, Eggman's character inconsistencies and Sonic Generations' questionable use of certain plot elements have little, if anything, to do with the discussion at hand. Even if those things that you mentioned are problems, they don't in any way justify Sonic '06's own numerous issues.

Actually it does. Did you take a gander at the earlier posts? I had been confused about Rusty Spy's perception of Mephiles being a "bad villain" and as such I asked why Eggman was not considered a terrible or stupid villain for not explaining his motives in Sonic 1. And if those being a problem then, then why is it that Eggman didn't just Kill Sonic in Sonic 2 instead of doing the same thing again.

 

My points weren't to justify 06, it was to get a better understanding of why people hate it. And so far, I'm still not getting much...

 

I know I'm a bit late into this discussion but dayum DBZHedgy. You can enjoy this atrocity all you want, but you have to accept the fact that most of us don't like it because it's a super flawed game and that's just the way it is. Defending the game's story and characterisation is also nigh impossible since it's so flawed and bad and yuck I don't even wanna think about it! And as others have said before me, no this does not mean we hold other Sonic game plots on a high pedestal. In fact I think Generations story is just AS bad as Sonic 06!

Seriously though, just let it go already.

Atrocity? Yet I'm the condescending one right? This game was not a cruel act. Especially since people have the capacity to like it. It was supposed to be a great game, but a series of unfortunate events caused it to falter. It's the thought that counts. Not the quality of the gift. SEGA wanted this game to be great and so did the fanbase. But alot of people were disappointing and alot weren't.

 

There are plenty of other super flawed games that are loved and continue to be loved. It is a fact, but that does not mean that everyone has to hate it. Giving Valid reasons for this point is evident.

If you hate the game then don't discuss it. If you however think that everyone MUST hate it, than that's even more condescending than I was originally. 

 

Why would I let it go? It's a discussion thread. I swear, people have contradicted themsleves rather frequently... Not individually however. If we are a part of a forum we should treat each other the same.

 

... or they could just be really, really stubborn with completing games.

Either way, it still means that the game is not as broken as they claim it to be. People LITERALLY make this game out to be the devil. Which is just stupid. If you don't like the game it doesn't mean that everyone else has to like it. (Not saying anyone here as done that). It just SHOWS that their being hypocritical about the subject. Why would they complete a game they think is complete trash? Not to mention if it were as broken as they claim it to be, it wouldn't be possible.

[Komodin]

Actually it does. Did you take a gander at the earlier posts? I had been confused about Rusty Spy's perception of Mephiles being a "bad villain" and as such I asked why Eggman was not considered a terrible or stupid villain for not explaining his motives in Sonic 1. And if those being a problem then, then why is it that Eggman didn't just Kill Sonic in Sonic 2 instead of doing the same thing again.

 

... What, exactly, does Eggman lacking a backstory and having a momentary lapse of judgment have to do with Mephiles being a crappy antagonist?

[Chaos Incarnate]

My god, DBZHedgy. How much longer are you going to keep this going? You've already stated your point that you like 06 and enjoy it more than other entries, but this argument has already ran its course. There's no need to have to constantly get the last word in of every argument so you emerge as the winner. Just take a chill pill, let it go, and move on. 

[Emmett L. Brown]

Quality is Defined BY OPINION, you cannot state it as if it were fact, yet people still constantly do. If you do, your simply making a fallacy for believing So.

No. You are wrong. Quality is one of those things that doesn't change depending on what people think about it. If there's a pot hole in the road it will continue to be a pot hole until it is fixed. The public opinion of whether or not it means the road is ruined will have no effect on the existence of the pot hole.

 

Sonic 06 has many incomplete features. For example, there's Sonic's ability to level up his shoe gems by collecting those energy shard things that fly out of every defeated enemy. This feature is described in detail in the manual. It does not exist in the game. Thus it detracts from the quality of the overall product. This is a fact. Nobody's opinion is ever going to cause this feature to suddenly start functioning.

 

You are making many wrong assumptions. That is an actual opinion held by me.

 

 

EDIT: And since that puts us back on the subject of the difference between quality and fun, there's the fact that Sonic's energy gauge isn't properly implemented so he can use the gems infinitely. That is incredibly fun to abuse and makes for a great way to cheese through levels. Hence this example of poor quality programming actually adds to the fun. Unfortunately, my opinion is that the other bajillion examples of poor quality programming detract from the fun.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Emmett L. Brown

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

No, your'e doing the exact opposite in fact. Dodging them.

*Why you think the game is bad.

 

 

 

For the sake of sanity, quit with the Magikarp splashing!!

 

I have constantly stated reasons why I dislike this game, why its story is asinine, and why my experience with it has been horrid.

I've given you my reasons, I've given you facts, yet you constantly just hand-wave them and start the merry-go-round going up again! There is no way, you can actually ignore all that reasoning we've given. That's just dickish.

[Rusty Spy]

My main problem is since I've stated my opinions on the game. People have been saying nothing more than "It's a bad dame" as if it were fact, when it isn't. Have I said It's a good game after my initial post? No, I've constantly stated, "That's why I enjoyed it".

You don't have to sling around "Its a bad game" just because were discussing about it. Because if that's all youre (Not you in particular) going to say, than it's not adding much since it has already been stated a million times...

Then it has become clear that you really have just been ignoring everything we've been saying, and have done nothing more than try to prolong this argument.

 

Case in point; the amount of times you continue to try and pass blame on to other games that share problems with 06, when many of us have blatantly said numerous times:

 

"The problems of one game do not excuse the problems of another"

 

That and the fact that you keep insisting that we hate the game because it has glitches/bad story telling/etc, when in reality, it is the fact that there are so many glitches and bugs that directly interfere with the player's enjoyment, on top of the many design choices that further sour player's enjoyment, all while still having a story that is poorly written, has poor dialogue, and is confusing and feels half-assed.

 

It is the frequency and severity of these bad factors that make people hate this game.

[DBZHedgy]

... What, exactly, does Eggman lacking a backstory and having a momentary lapse of judgment have to do with Mephiles being a crappy antagonist?

:face palm: your clearly not paying attention to the points I've made prior. I wasn't referring to mephiles. I was trying to understand WHY rusty spy thinks that Mephiles is stupid. Did you even read the post I've made about it?

My god, DBZHedgy. How much longer are you going to keep this going? You've already stated your point that you like 06 and enjoy it more than other entries, but this argument has already ran its course. There's no need to have to constantly get the last word in of every argument so you emerge as the winner. Just take a chill pill, let it go, and move on.

Keep what going? I could care less if I got the last say, but since this discussion has started up what reason is there to end it? I've tried to resign from this discussion, but as the admins have LEARLY justified , we are capable of discussing this until our hearts content, and seeing as how your only pointing what IM doing instead of all of us accordingly it just causes more conflict. What was the point of this topic anyway? ITS DISCUSSION, Aiko, has already pointed that out. READ.

Trying to get the last comment yourself doesn't make you any better. You do realize this right? Id be perfectly fine letting someone who have said that they THINK the game is bad instead of just stating "its a bad game". Its insulting and condescenring to those who do enjoy the game.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Keep what going? I could care less if I got the last say, but since this discussion has started up what reason is there to end it? I've tried to resias the aeminadmin said, we are capable of capable of discussing this until our hearts content, and seeing as how your only pointing what IM doing instead of all of: s accordingly it just causes more conflict. What exy was the point of this point anyway? ITS DISCUSSION, Aiko, has already pointed that out. READ.

Trying to get the last comment yourself doesn't make you any better. You do realize this right? Id be perfectly fine letting someone who have said that they THINK the game is bad instead of just stating "its a bad game". Its insulting and condescenring to those who do enjoy the game.

I never even stated what my thoughts on this game were, and I don't begrudge you for liking it in the slightest, dude. It's just that ever since you joined this site, your very first impression was calling out and insulting people that didn't agree with you. Yeah, you apologized, and I respect you for that bud, but all I ever see you do is post on the subject of Sonic 06: over, and over, and over. 

 

I've already stated there's no problem with enjoying Sonic 06 in the slightest. But you stirred up a heated argument and are acting like a victim, when that's not entirely the case. I mean seriously, just take a breather and relax. Maybe spread your wings and post on some other stuff, don't challenge everyone's view points so much and they won't challenge your as much, either, etc.

 

I've already given my two cents, and I don't want to stir up yet another argument, so I'll just leave it be for now. I bought Sonic 06 a few weeks ago, so I'll post my thoughts on it once this giant argument blows over.

[Tara]

 

I don't recall being hostile as a response...

After realizing how wrong I was about the forum, I apologized, yet people still continue to call me "naive" or "blinded" and such while it is in fact incorrect. Being called such names, as incorrect as they are, doesn't help the fact either. I made amends for being so ignorant before, but what about everyone else? You say that fighting Hostility with Hostility is a bad thing, yet I'm not the only person responsible for this.

 

I know, in fact I'm glad that people still took my points into account even though I did have a sour tone. However, it seems as though the people responding to me are more condescending then I am considering they treat the situation as if the game is terrible by fact. Since it isn't a fact, I've been tenuously giving saying rather repeatedly that it isn't fact. Yet it is still treated as such.

 

The word attack means "an aggressive and violent action against a person or place." Seeing as how people cannot respect my opinion and GREATLY emphasis how wrong I am for thinking in such a manner, that would indeed mean that I am being "attacked" for my opinion. Does it not?

 

But, I'm not saying that you have to agree with me about my points. This is the reasons why I like the game, and since people are discussing it I respect that, and counter as followed suit. However, I am most certainly not being fallacious seeing as how the points I've made are only interpretations of how I viewed what has appeared in the game. If I am being Fallacious than that means that everyone else is being fallicous as well since they all have their own interpretation of the game right?

Words like "naive" and "blinded," rather factually or contextually correct in this instance or not, are hardly derogatory and certainly don't qualify as an "aggressive or violent action," nor do most of the replies to this topic.  I'm not denying that this conversation could definitely stand to be improved, but not on the grounds you're presenting.  Unless someone is flat out calling you stupid, saying you don't have the right to share this opinion (which as far I've seen, people have been saying quite the opposite), or making threats to your physical or emotional wellbeing, then you are certainly not being attacked.

 

In addition, once again, you're playing the "I'm the only one getting called out for it" card, when we've gotten on quite a few members' case for condescending and rude behavior in this very topic, which only further exasperates my belief that you are victimizing yourself.

[Komodin]

:face palm: your clearly not paying attention to the points I've made prior. I wasn't referring to mephiles. I was trying to understand WHY rusty spy thinks that Mephiles is stupid. Did you even read the post I've made about it?

 

There is no need to act rude like this, man.

 

I have read your posts, actually -- it just doesn't make much sense, is all. You brought up those moments of Eggman being less than good in some attempt to undermine Rusty Spy's argument of Mephiles being a bad antagonist. There's one problem with that, however: again I ask, what does Eggman having moments of bad characterization have to do with Mephiles being a... well, bad antagonist? They can both be stupid, but as this argument in particular is about Mephiles as opposed to Eggman, bringing up evidence of Eggman being meh is, frankly, rather pointless.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

 

Ironically however, even people who DETEST the game have still gotten S ranks in DLC and Super Hard mode. That goes to say that even THEY are able to overcome the games bad points.

Yes,there is such a thing as completionism or doing it for views. What does this even have to do with your argument!?

[Vertekins]

One of the things that really stands-out about this game to me regarding it's sheer, sheer badness is the huge amount of disrespect Sonic gets.

 

I mean bloody hell! His name is the game's title. This game was intended to commemorate the 15th anniversary of his series. And yet he's treated with such irreverence and irrelevance. From providing very little plot impetus to being consistently portrayed as Silver's whipping boy to being shown as blitheringly incompetent and then killed in such a disingenuous and frankly insulting way. Sonic got treated like absolute shit in this game and it narks me to this day.

 

How many other protagonists of famous and long-lived videogame franchises can attest to being treated akin to that in 'important' titles?

[Komodin]

At this point, methinks this game really should've been called Shadow the Hedgehog 2 (and Silver!). Sonic barely mattered to the plot of the game, really.

[Celestia]

To some extent '06's story really did feel like they wanted to make a Shadow sequel. Hell, Shadow's conflict with Mephiles would have been a lot more interesting if it had been it's own thing (and, you know, if Mephiles was better written & designed). I'd take him over Black Doom in ShTH itself actually. Establish Mephiles as not having a physical form until he gets all the Chaos Emeralds or...something and have him manipulate (or try to, depending on which routes you take) Shadow throughout the game.

 

At least it'd keep the alien bullshit out of Shadow's backstory. :V

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

At this point, methinks this game really should've been called Shadow the Hedgehog 2 (and Silver!). Sonic barely mattered to the plot of the game, really.

That's what I've constantly said before! (And yet for some reason, I never got likes for the idea unlike you).

[Indigo Rush]

A more appropriate title for this game would be "Shadow and Silver go to Kingdom Valley."

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Nah, Shadow 2 & Silver is more fitting, especially considering the parallels with Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

[Gabz Girl]

Not only was Sonic hardly of any importance throughout Sonic 06, but apart from the opening and ending cutscenes of the game his personality was horrendous. He had no attitude, no snark, no cheese (which in this case I actually missed!)...instead he was a bland and flanderised goodie two shoes. In fact most of the cast was bland too, except for Shadow and Dr Eggman!

This really did feel like Shadow's game didn't it? He had the most interesting story throughout his gameplay after all.

[Salamander]

Sonic's plot didn't integrate well with the game's metaplot, I'd agree.  His whole "save the princess" schtick in '06 is the most Sonic-y of the various plotlines, but what Shadow and Silver were up to generally had a lot more to do with the actual backstory and the underlying secrets of the plot.

 

With that said, I'm not sure just how you'd sum up Shadow's portion of the plot.  The key idea for Sonic's plotline was "save the princess," the key idea for Silver's was "change the past to save the future," but I honestly don't remember if there was really a unifying idea to Shadow's plotline.  "Investigate the Sceptre of Darkness and Mephiles," I guess?  Before you can think about fixing the game's plot, you have to figure out what it was really about, and I'm not sure what Shadow's storyline was about at all.

[FireBird75]

Nah, Shadow 2 & Silver is more fitting, especially considering the parallels with Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Now why didn't I think of that! That title's perfect!

 

Or this:

[Emmett L. Brown]

One of the things that really stands-out about this game to me regarding it's sheer, sheer badness is the huge amount of disrespect Sonic gets.

 

I mean bloody hell! His name is the game's title. This game was intended to commemorate the 15th anniversary of his series. And yet he's treated with such irreverence and irrelevance. From providing very little plot impetus to being consistently portrayed as Silver's whipping boy to being shown as blitheringly incompetent and then killed in such a disingenuous and frankly insulting way. Sonic got treated like absolute shit in this game and it narks me to this day.

 

How many other protagonists of famous and long-lived videogame franchises can attest to being treated akin to that in 'important' titles?

 

I can only think of one.

 

*gives Metroid Other M another death glare*

 

Ironically I thought Shadow had some of the best characterization he's gotten since his introductory game in Sonic 06. His character development from his self-named game actually stuck, and it was so satisfying to see him dismiss a villain using the same kind of lame-ass arguments as Black Doom.

[Sean]

Friendly reminder that this game came out nearly eight years ago and you all still choose to discuss it more than any other game on this forum.

Oh do carry on.

[Spin Attaxx]

To be fair, I think most people find it easier/more fun to discuss things they don't like/are objectively awful rather than things they do/aren't.

 

We're somewhat of a oddball species like that.

[Vertekins]

Doesn't the "Sonic Lost World Announced" topic have more pages though?

 

Or are we speaking from discussion amount overall in general?

 

I'd agree that '06 is certainly the most controversial Sonic game discussion-wise though.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I dont like how Sonic wasnt all main but I i liked the game because of Sonic. He was so amazing and humble in this game. I really like Silver to. I like how he was different and didnt rip off Sonics moves. I respect all opinions though