[DELETED]

[Sega DogTagz]

Well, that's a stronger explanation than mine. Either way, not many people would know how to use him the way the Nocturnus would have intended.

I have debated Chronicles so many times in the past. I'm up to my ears in useless tidbits of data like this.

[Diogenes]

Dunno. I could guess that Argus either missed him as he went for the whole civilization that made him (who could without a doubt produce even more, justifying taking mostly the Nocturnus) or Argus didn't think that anyone would know how to use him the way the Nocturnus would've intended.

I swear to god I'm going to bust a blood vessel if I have to deal with this kind of concentrated stupid for much longer. I mean come on man! You just got done saying that Emerl is so insanely dangerous that godsquid had to step in and stop things, yet he fails to actually take care of the thing that caused him to appear?!

What context?

The context of Emerl being powerful enough to wipe out an entire civilization.

Different paths doesn't mean you can't have the same end result, which you admitted yourself at the top of this page.

THE PATH MATTERS.

Because its a really bad idea to bring a Robot that grows in power in accordance to his environment into a pocket dimension full of races that were deemed too powerful to co-exist in their native lands.

But the whole point is to separate Dangerous Thing from Planet. Emerl is Dangerous Thing. If he is left behind then you have failed utterly to remove Dangerous Thing from Planet.

Emerl is pretty harmless on his lonesome.

Hey guess what's still there: the entire rest of the planet. Whole fuckload of sentient beings he could Link with.

This is the equivalent of wiping out a country for inventing nukes and then leaving the nukes. The only way this makes sense is if godsquid is insane, an idiot, or utterly incompetent.

This is fuckin' 06-level plotting. The story has become worse for your interference.

And with that, I'm out. It's not fucking worth it. Any further is the equivalent of pounding my head against the wall until I'm permanently disabled.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I swear to god I'm going to bust a blood vessel if I have to deal with this kind of concentrated stupid for much longer. I mean come on man! You just got done saying that Emerl is so insanely dangerous that godsquid had to step in and stop things, yet he fails to actually take care of the thing that caused him to appear?!

"Concentrated stupid", huh? Real classy for you to flip the table and sink to insults, Diogenes.

Considering that the only people who would have been able to use were the Nocturnus, I'd say it's more dangerous to leave it with them than in a world where they wouldn't easily know how to use it and there's no one to teach them how. And who the fuck is it to say that Argus didn't miss Emerl when he separated the Nocturnus from their world? Because when the Nocturnus got even more powerful and made it back in Chronicles, Argus didn't do anything then. But by that point the world got strong enough to fight back.

Now Arceus already gave a stronger explaination than I did, so I can defer to him.

The context of Emerl being powerful enough to wipe out an entire civilization.

Except Chronicles already informed us that he didn't, remember? And Gerald was the only person mentioned in Battle to have any idea about the fourth great civilization in his journal and he flat out admitted he didn't want to jump to conclusions of whether Emerl did so.

THE PATH MATTERS.

Considering that that path was unknown and people were only making guesses, I'm still not seeing the problem.

It went from "This is what I think happened" to "This is what really happened".

Edited November 9, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Sega DogTagz]

But the whole point is to separate Dangerous Thing from Planet. Emerl is Dangerous Thing. If he is left behind then you have failed utterly to remove Dangerous Thing from Planet.

Emerl, and the balance of power was safer on Mobius/Earth than he ever would have been in the Twilight cage.

Putting him over there would have IMMEDIATELY resulted in an even bigger problem. Leaving him behind and taking the Nocturne instead left him pretty much dormant until Gerald found him Generations later. Not only does that shuffle result in centuries of peace for the planet, but by pushing Emerl ahead to Sonic's time period, Argus in turn gave the world a means of dealing with this colossal threat.

Gods can be all seeing like that you know. He left Emerl behind because between the two M.O. options, that was the best bet.

Hey guess what's still there: the entire rest of the planet. Whole fuckload of sentient beings he could Link with.

And guess what Emerl did for the next couple centuries.

Jack Squat.

Those other races didn't posses weaponry sophisticated enough to re-establish Emerl as a global threat. It wouldn't be until Gerald found the dude that he would even regain a fraction of his former ability. Without Nocturne, there were not many quality links to be had out there.

This is the equivalent of wiping out a country for inventing nukes and then leaving the nukes. The only way this makes sense is if godsquid is insane, an idiot, or utterly incompetent.

This is more like inventing an orbital strike cannon and leaving the launch codes with some cavemen.

It doesn't really matter how dangerous it could be, those guys aren't going to be able to do much with it until the get a couple thousand years of evolution under their belt.

This is fuckin' 06-level plotting. The story has become worse for your interference.

And with that, I'm out. It's not fucking worth it. Any further is the equivalent of pounding my head against the wall until I'm permanently disabled.

Please don't lose any more brain cells on my account buddy. But I'm pretty sure everything I've laid out isn't that hard to swallow.

Edited November 9, 2012 by The Arcane Arceus

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This is more like inventing an orbital strike cannon and leaving the launch codes with some cavemen.

It doesn't really matter how dangerous it could be, those guys aren't going to be able to do much with it until the get a couple thousand years of evolution under their belt.

I want to be pedantic and say it's the same thing whether you have nukes or an orbital strike cannon. You need access codes in order to launch/shoot them, and if no one can use the launch codes then no one can use the weapons.

Edited November 9, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Sega DogTagz]

I want to be pedantic and say it's the same thing whether you have nukes or an orbital strike cannon. You need access codes in order to launch/shoot them, and if no one can use the launch codes then no one can use the weapons.

I guess. But you can drop a nuke off a cliff and maybe get lucky with an explosion. It can be more of a dummy tech.

You can hammer away at a cannon console all day every day and not do much if you don't know how to work the thing.

Either way, you guys get the point. Without Nocturne, Emerl wasn't a threat to anybody.

Edited November 9, 2012 by The Arcane Arceus

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Really tho, I never really considered any of that you said regarding the Nocturnus in Chronicles. I could put two-and-two together and assume that Argus missed Emerl, but I'd have to do plenty brainstorming to come up with the conclusions you had.

Tho, it does say a lot that for all the quality links, the closest to the Nocturnus in Sonic's time would have been Eggman and it outright refused to operate for him while operating for Sonic and whomever else.

Oh and thanks for the fun debate Hella Jeff. No hard feelings.

[Diogenes]

All I'm gonna say is that it's hilarious you guys are trying to use that metaphor when CSS just used one about leaving a gun with a child.

Oh and thanks for the fun debate Hella Jeff. No hard feelings.

Yeah, likewise.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

All I'm gonna say is that it's hilarious you guys are trying to use that metaphor when CSS just used one about leaving a gun with a child.

But that was on whether Emerl destroyed the Nocturnus, not about why Argus left Emerl on Earth. But regardless, I think his metaphor works better actually.

A gun is much simpler and you can easily shoot someone accidental by throwing it at something and making the firing pin shoot the bullet. A nuke is much more complex because of the mechanics that would be used to detonate it, yet one could still get unlucky and blow the thing up. An orbital cannon on the other hand is much more complex, and you can't get as lucky as you would with the other two weapons because of the fail safes in the console that would prevent some random jackass from shooting wildly with it.

Emerl falls along the lines of the last example. Said failsafe being him linking to someone powerful enough to use him. Because there was no one powerful enough to use him for 4000 years, Emerl couldn't be any kind of threat during that time. Then 4000 years later, we have a hedgehog who is capable of killing gods by using the power of the Chaos Emeralds (although that kinda shoots itself when said emeralds are in the robot lol), and the world advanced enough to fight back against any threats to it. It took me awhile to make sense of it, but I actually get it.

Edited November 9, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Komodin]

Hm, perhaps my brain is intentionally trying to block out every memory I have pertaining to Sonic Chronicles (can't say I blame it, though), but I don't really remembers much about the details concerning Argus. Is he/she/it supposed to be a Cthulhu expy, or something?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hm, perhaps my brain is intentionally trying to block out every memory I have pertaining to Sonic Chronicles (can't say I blame it, though), but I don't really remembers much about the details concerning Argus. Is he/she/it supposed to be a Cthulhu expy, or something?

Argus is some tentacled entity from another dimension who banishes civilizations to a pocket dimension of his whenever they grow too powerful in their worlds. That pretty much sums him up.

[Multikaris]

Maybe Argus took away the Babylonians and Gaia Temple Builders as well. The Black Arms probably avoided him somehow.

P.S.: Give me Blaze or give me death.

Edited November 9, 2012 by miru

[Dr. Homem]

Maybe Argus took away the Babylonians and Gaia Temple Builders as well. The Black Arms probably avoided him somehow.

That is not out of question. The Babylonians at least showed to have achieved great advancement, perhaps they could have became even more powerful than the Nocturnus if they had more time.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

That is not out of question. The Babylonians at least showed to have achieved great advancement, perhaps they could have became even more powerful than the Nocturnus if they had more time.

Babylonian Cross-dimensional space thieves?

...That actually sounds kinda awesome.

[Spin Attaxx]

I have an idea for a future Sonic gameplay style: while he'd play roughly like he does now, the boost wouldn't last as long and he wouldn't be invincible while boosting. He could reach boosting speed naturally after running unhindered for 4-5 seconds: the boost just getting you from 0 to MAX in a second. Sliding would be replaced with rolling, and be given rolling physics. The Spin Dash would be done by crouching down and pressing the jump button. Also, Sonic can hurt enemies just by jumping into them. He doesn't have to use the Homing Attack (which, by the way, has a quicker cooling time).

Tails would also play like this, except he can't boost or use the Homing Attack, instead flying for 10 seconds after jumping twice.

Knuckles, again, can't boost or homing attack, but can glide after jumping twice. Said glide hurts enemies and climbs walls. He jumps lower than Sonic and Tails, but other than all that, he uses the same gameplay style as Sonic.

[Multikaris]

I have an idea for a future Sonic gameplay style: while he'd play roughly like he does now, the boost wouldn't last as long and he wouldn't be invincible while boosting. He could reach boosting speed naturally after running unhindered for 4-5 seconds: the boost just getting you from 0 to MAX in a second. Sliding would be replaced with rolling, and be given rolling physics. The Spin Dash would be done by crouching down and pressing the jump button. Also, Sonic can hurt enemies just by jumping into them. He doesn't have to use the Homing Attack (which, by the way, has a quicker cooling time).

Tails would also play like this, except he can't boost or use the Homing Attack, instead flying for 10 seconds after jumping twice.

Knuckles, again, can't boost or homing attack, but can glide after jumping twice. Said glide hurts enemies and climbs walls. He jumps lower than Sonic and Tails, but other than all that, he uses the same gameplay style as Sonic.

[Spin Attaxx]

Addendum:

Amy cant boost, homing attack, or even spin. She, however, has a hammer to fight with and do pole vaults with.

Blaze cant HA, but she can boost, but it needs the whole bar to be full to even use. She can hover and is immune to fire based hazards.

[Multikaris]

Amy could also be the high-jumper of the group. Blaze could damage enemies with her boost (what with it being firey) as well. Her Axel Jump could have a horizontal range, but can't hurt enemies from beneath.

I did think of how Shadow could adapt to the formula, but I couldn't really think of a way to differenciate him from Sonic without deviating far from him (seeing how his and Blaze's strengths seem to be playing almost exactly like Sonic).

(And just to please you, Rouge could be like Knuckles, 'cept her glide has more air time and it can't kill enemies.)

Shadow could play exactly like Generations Sonic (i.e. Slide, no rolling)Rouge could also have kicks rather than punches.

[batson]

Rouge could also have kicks rather than punches.

Sure, as long as its not just an aestethic difference. By which i mean that Rouge's kicks would have to somehow work differently from Knux' punches in terms of actuall function/gameplay, otherwise what's the point.

Edited November 13, 2012 by batson

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Sure, as long as its not just an aestethic difference. By which i mean that Rouge's kicks would have to somehow work differently from Knux' punches in terms of actuall function/gameplay, otherwise what's the point.

Hmm... maybe invent a few enemies that can only be attacked from certain angles? Knuckles' punches can only hit enemies above the torso, while Rouge's sweeping kicks can only hit the lower half?

[Diogenes]

I don't think Sonic games have the precision for that to work. And just...not being able to attack certain enemies with certain characters? Kinda sucks. Or if they can defeat those enemies in other ways, then the high/low attack differentiation doesn't really matter.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly sounds like something that would work with Skyward Sword.

[Multikaris]

How would Shade play in an actual Sonic platformer?

[Kuzu]

I'd imagine like Knuckles.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

She...uses a variation of the old Elemental Shields in lieu of Knuckles' gliding and wall-climbing abilities? Would make sense with her technology.