Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Your Vest Friend]

It is (Edit: NOT IN JAPAN), but the point is that Bowser isn't a nickname like Eggman and Tails are.

Edited July 15, 2012 by VEDJ-F

[Blue Blood]

I thought his full name was King Bowser Koopa now?

Speaking of which, second names for animal characters. We go from Blaze the Cat and Vector the Crocodile to Tails Prower the Fox and Amy Rose the Hedgehog, and it bugs me because does this mean all animals have second names? I hope not because I know they'll give them stupid names like Sonic Ogilvie Maurice or whatever Archie calls him...

Pretty sure that Amy and Tails don't have 'The Hedgehog' and 'The Fox' affixed to their names.

[Diogenes]

You have a better definition?

Nothing as concise as that, but there's far more ways of being overpowered than simply being able to one-shot things. For example, purely in terms of fighting dudes, a character would be overpowered if he, for example, could avoid all attacks (ridiculous speed (even above that of Sonic), instant and repeated teleportation, limitless intangibility) and proceed to wear down his enemy with only average strength. And those are extreme examples; in Shadow's case it's not that he has a guaranteed win button, but because he's got so many powerful abilities on top of matching Sonic move for move, when Sonic's already one of the most powerful characters in the series.

He does this in two games, and now suddenly it's apart of his permanent moveset? I guess that means Amy can turn invisible now too huh.

Amy's invisibility is weird as fuck, considering it came completely out of nowhere, has no explanation or relation to her preexisting abilities, and has no out-of-gameplay references, on top of only showing up once. Given that, I would say it's not an ability she actually "has", but some poorly chosen gameplay mechanic. Shadow, on the other hand, is holding a gun on the cover of his game, and uses it and rides a motorcycle in the game's intro. There's also no question as to "how" he can use them, since they're mundane objects that only require at most some knowledge and practice, whereas Amy had some unexplained supernatural(?) ability.

...This is a power?

They are a tool that he always has with him, why would I not count them? Would you rate a swordsman as an ordinary (or merely athletic) guy just because his sword is not part of his body? Is Iron Man not a superhero because he uses a robot suit?

And you could still build a balanced character out of it, it just hasn't been done.

I'm really having trouble envisioning how you could balance a character who is good at so many different things. Like...how would you go about balancing Shadow, given all those things are true?

Even then, in Generations he's no more powerful than Sonic in their boss fight.

Because it's a boss fight and you have to be able to win.

e: Also because they were trying to play them up as rivals, in spite of the power difference.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Diogenes

[Your Vest Friend]

This is not a peeve, just a curiosity.

Sonic Team seem so keen on using elements from Knuckles Chaotix (two tunes in Generations, Advance 3 and Sonic 4: Episode 2 having co-op systems that stem from it, and even Iizuka saying that he'd love to do a spiritual successor to it), and yet they're adamant about not re-releasing it (not now at least, it seems it was planned for Gems). I wonder why, and wondering about something makes me fidgety. :<

[Blue Blood]

I hardly think that the co-op gameplay in Adavnce 3 and E2 has the slightest thing to do with Chaotix.

[Kuzu]

Pretty sure that Amy and Tails don't have 'The Hedgehog' and 'The Fox' affixed to their names.

In Chronicles, Amy has "The Hedgehog" as her surname, to make it weirder, they use her official surname too making it "Amy Rose The Hedgehog"

Nothing as concise as that, but there's far more ways of being overpowered than simply being able to one-shot things. For example, purely in terms of fighting dudes, a character would be overpowered if he, for example, could avoid all attacks (ridiculous speed (even above that of Sonic), instant and repeated teleportation, limitless intangibility) and proceed to wear down his enemy with only average strength. And those are extreme examples; in Shadow's case it's not that he has a guaranteed win button, but because he's got so many powerful abilities on top of matching Sonic move for move, when Sonic's already one of the most powerful characters in the series.

I'll concede that Shadow is overpowered to an extent in that he has far more abilities than everyone else with little to no drawbacks, but not to the point where he's better than everyone else; at best he's Sonic's equal despite his power, Knuckles is consistently still physically stronger, and doesn't have flight nor the technological abilities that Tails has.

Amy's invisibility is weird as fuck, considering it came completely out of nowhere, has no explanation or relation to her preexisting abilities, and has no out-of-gameplay references, on top of only showing up once. Given that, I would say it's not an ability she actually "has", but some poorly chosen gameplay mechanic. Shadow, on the other hand, is holding a gun on the cover of his game, and uses it and rides a motorcycle in the game's intro. There's also no question as to "how" he can use them, since they're mundane objects that only require at most some knowledge and practice, whereas Amy had some unexplained supernatural(?) ability.

But it's not a consistent ability of his unlike his other Chaos powers, it was an ability he gained in those two games mostly. If that's the case then we'd have to count the extra abilities that everyone else uses in most of the games as well. Shadow's use of guns and vehicles as just as random and arbitrary as Amy's invisibility

.

They are a tool that he always has with him, why would I not count them? Would you rate a swordsman as an ordinary (or merely athletic) guy just because his sword is not part of his body? Is Iron Man not a superhero because he uses a robot suit?

The difference is, those give the characters some type of advantage over the rest; a Swordsmen is going to have an advantage over non-swordsmen, and Iron Man's suit gives him advantages no one else has. Shadow's hover shoes are almost cosmetic as they give him no distinguishable advantage over anyone else, it's implied that he doesn't even need them to be fast at all, so I don't count them.

I'm really having trouble envisioning how you could balance a character who is good at so many different things. Like...how would you go about balancing Shadow, given all those things are true?

Well me and CSS came up with a few things, but otherwise you can still have an interesting character even if they are imbalanced; it's definitely hard, but not impossible. As long as Shadow doesn't eclipse anyone else in their respective expertise(Sonic's speed, Knuckles` strength, etc.) I don't think there's too much of a problem. I do admit they should give him a few weaknesses and flaws so that he's less overpowered than he actually is.

Because it's a boss fight and you have to be able to win.

That didn't stop them from bitching Sonic in his boss fight in Shadow's game. He's so underpowered that it's ridiculous, you don't even have to beat Sonic to win the fight.

[JezMM]

This is not a peeve, just a curiosity.

Sonic Team seem so keen on using elements from Knuckles Chaotix (two tunes in Generations, Advance 3 and Sonic 4: Episode 2 having co-op systems that stem from it, and even Iizuka saying that he'd love to do a spiritual successor to it), and yet they're adamant about not re-releasing it (not now at least, it seems it was planned for Gems). I wonder why, and wondering about something makes me fidgety. :<

While I agree with Blue Blood, even if what you say is true, I think they're just aware that it's a very flawed game and next to impossible to market to the current age. Knuckles has greatly fallen from his role as resident badass (Shadow had that role and was barely able to hold onto it too).

The only way they could possibly sell copies outside of us hardcore fans would be to rename it "Sonic: Knuckles' Chaotix" or something to make it clear and attention grabbing that it is a classic Sonic game to the casuals. Which of course would be ridiculous because Sonic isn't in it.

Edited July 15, 2012 by JezMM

[Blue Blood]

In Chronicles, Amy has "The Hedgehog" as her surname, to make it weirder, they use her official surname too making it "Amy Rose The Hedgehog"

*ignores rest of post*

> Chronicles

[batson]

I find it bizarre as well because they made Eggman AND Robotnik canon in the best possible way in all regions and people still aren't satisfied.

Best possible way? The character is damn-near always called Eggman in the games, so i'd say those who prefer the name Robotnik got royally screwed. So what if Robotnik is still technicelly a canon name when it's never actually used...

Edited July 15, 2012 by batson

[Amomynous]

Voicewars over Sonic voice actors in general. I use to be involved in it basically telling people how silly it is that they're fighting over voices in the games during the 4kids vs the original cast. I pretty much gave up now since it's still going on and I'm tired of repeating myself over and over. Bringing Ryan Drummond back alone is not going to save the series and it's not going to fix the problems that the series has. It's just a different voice coming out of Sonic's mouth. That's it.

Especially all the anti-Jason malarky, people really needed to get a grip and realise he isn't an eldritch abomination that eats babies.

People that rail on Rogue's 4Kids voice, but that may just be because I have an older cousin who sounds so much like her. I honestly can't see the "40 year old chain smoker" tag fitted to her.

Agree with this too, Rouge's 4kids voice (who's name escapes me right now), maybe sounded a little too old, but not by that much, and not the 'chain smoker' part either...

I think you guys are being a little harsh on the shippers, it's not my bag, so I mostly steer clear, the only time I'd say it genuinely peeves me is when they invoke die for our ship or otherwise bends characters backwards for the sake of said pairing.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Mysterics

[Kuzu]

*ignores rest of post*

> Chronicles

I kno rite??

[Diogenes]

I'll concede that Shadow is overpowered to an extent in that he has far more abilities than everyone else with little to no drawbacks, but not to the point where he's better than everyone else; at best he's Sonic's equal despite his power, Knuckles is consistently still physically stronger, and doesn't have flight nor the technological abilities that Tails has.

You don't need to beat everyone at everything to be overpowered. Sonic is his equal only because the narrative is stacked in his favor. Shadow may not have Knuckles' raw strength, but if Sonic and Knuckles are meant to be competitive, then obviously Shadow, being Sonic-plus-more, is more than Knuckles. And lacking flight isn't much of a disadvantage to someone who can teleport.

But it's not a consistent ability of his unlike his other Chaos powers, it was an ability he gained in those two games mostly. If that's the case then we'd have to count the extra abilities that everyone else uses in most of the games as well. Shadow's use of guns and vehicles as just as random and arbitrary as Amy's invisibility

Like I said, there's more at play than simply how many games a thing has appeared in.

The difference is, those give the characters some type of advantage over the rest; a Swordsmen is going to have an advantage over non-swordsmen, and Iron Man's suit gives him advantages no one else has. Shadow's hover shoes are almost cosmetic as they give him no distinguishable advantage over anyone else, it's implied that he doesn't even need them to be fast at all, so I don't count them.

Hovershoes let him hover.

Well me and CSS came up with a few things, but otherwise you can still have an interesting character even if they are imbalanced; it's definitely hard, but not impossible.

Okay but that's not what I asked.

As long as Shadow doesn't eclipse anyone else in their respective expertise(Sonic's speed, Knuckles` strength, etc.) I don't think there's too much of a problem.

When he's second place in many, and still has his own unique powers, I would consider that a pretty significant problem.

That didn't stop them from bitching Sonic in his boss fight in Shadow's game. He's so underpowered that it's ridiculous, you don't even have to beat Sonic to win the fight.

Because Sonic isn't the boss. Besides, Generations tried to spin them as equals despite an objective power imbalance, while ShtH was basically fellating Shadow from start to finish; they're both stupid for different reasons.

[UltDevilDoom]

My biggest Sonic pet peeve is people who hate a Sonic game or the entire franchise without playing Sonic. Reviews are not facts, they are opinions. And some opinions are bloated trash that have no grounds because the people who form those opinions hate something they never (or just barely) experienced. No one can play a game for ten or fifteen minutes and write a review, no matter how good or bad the game is.

Of course, that's not to say that Sonic has some unpolished turds in his history (Heroes, 06, Labyrinth, etc.). But like I said, if you haven't played it, your argument is not worth listening to.

[Roarey Raccoon]

The clumsy, inaccurate gameplay that has been a staple of the franchise since Sonic Adventure. I feel like I'm trying to stop Sonic from being a dumbass instead of being in control. To qualify this opinion so that it has some context, I love it when gameplay flows smoothly and responds with forgiveness to the small inaccuracies of analog controls. Like Assassins Creed 2, leaping from rooftop to rooftop was a joy and a pleasure; Sonic gameplay just pisses me off.

[batson]

The clumsy, inaccurate gameplay that has been a staple of the franchise since Sonic Adventure.

[UltDevilDoom]

You don't need to beat everyone at everything to be overpowered. Sonic is his equal only because the narrative is stacked in his favor. Shadow may not have Knuckles' raw strength, but if Sonic and Knuckles are meant to be competitive, then obviously Shadow, being Sonic-plus-more, is more than Knuckles. And lacking flight isn't much of a disadvantage to someone who can teleport.

Like I said, there's more at play than simply how many games a thing has appeared in.

Hovershoes let him hover.

Okay but that's not what I asked.

When he's second place in many, and still has his own unique powers, I would consider that a pretty significant problem.

Because Sonic isn't the boss. Besides, Generations tried to spin them as equals despite an objective power imbalance, while ShtH was basically fellating Shadow from start to finish; they're both stupid for different reasons.

[Your Vest Friend]

I felt control was worse in both Adventures than in Heroes. Heroes had the trip mechanic where the game would try and make speed/power formation characters stop before they could careen over the edge, the homing attack was more controllable, and fly formation was a safety net. The Adventures just threw me into pits.

[Soniman]

The fly formation would be more handy if you could switch formation while in the air...like when you're falling into a death pit.

[Kuzu]

You don't need to beat everyone at everything to be overpowered. Sonic is his equal only because the narrative is stacked in his favor. Shadow may not have Knuckles' raw strength, but if Sonic and Knuckles are meant to be competitive, then obviously Shadow, being Sonic-plus-more, is more than Knuckles. And lacking flight isn't much of a disadvantage to someone who can teleport.

[Diogenes]

So what is your point in all this? It's scattered. You can't just try to demean other people's posts all the time and then try to make a fragile point. People won't regard your posts as relevant.

[batson]

I felt control was worse in both Adventures than in Heroes. Heroes had the trip mechanic where the game would try and make speed/power formation characters stop before they could careen over the edge, the homing attack was more controllable, and fly formation was a safety net. The Adventures just threw me into pits.

[Nepenthe]

The fly formation would be more handy if you could switch formation while in the air...like when you're falling into a death pit.

[Johnny Boy]

People whining about how Roger is voicing sonic in Wreck it Ralph instead of Ryan or Jason. Just shut the hell up and be glad that Sonic is in the film in general.

[Diogenes]

If you want to use competitive balance; Sonic would be the Fragile Speedster(Fast, but Weak), Shadow would the Glass Cannon(Strong, but Frail),

[Vertekins]

It's a peeve of mine and one that absolutely frikkin' disgusts me that Jason actually got sent death threats. When will people grow the fuck up? You honestly believe that sending a person pathetic death threats is going to get your precious Hedgehog voiced by someone you prefer? If so, you need help and ought to seek it out. Immediately.

I mean, death threats? Over voice acting? That's lower than low. That is just sad.