Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Vertekins]

People who don't know the difference between robotization and imprisoning animals in robots.

Seconded. I'm looking at you Chronicles.

The reason why that rubbed me the wrong way was because it painted-out Eggman to be a bigger monster. Imprisoning animals inside robots to be used as organic batteries is undoubtedly cruel but fully converting an animal into a robot by transmuting it's organic components into mechanical ones is even more so, backed-up by the character's reactions to it and the fact that one of the Roboticisized Armadillo's actually was stated to have a portable Roboticiser on it's head.

It was a continuity snarl and a misguided way of making the characters hate Eggman. Not to mention uncharacteristically cruel of Eggman. He isn't SatAM 'Botnik for goodness sake...

[Diogenes]

They aren't vague at all. The game makes it pretty clear that the thing that is 'infecting' Sonic is a piece of Dark Gaia.

So you are proposing that, when Eggman fired the laser at the beginning of the game, it somehow sucked up Dark Gaia bits and implanted them in Sonic? And this is somehow the more plausible explanation than there being a strong connection between negative chaos energy and Dark Gaia? Despite that the game started with Eggman using a negative energy laser to wake up Dark Gaia? And that he inverted the emeralds' polarity while Sonic was using them to do so?

- Dark Gaia only becoming truly complete when it forcibly takes back it's missing piece i.e The piece inside Sonic. In no way did Gaia transform from Chaos Energy, it had been "put back together" by Eggman and truly completed by taking back it's final piece from Sonic and then metamorphosized by itself.

But is there any reasoning against the pieces of Dark Gaia being negative chaos energy in the first place? I mean, the whole Gaia conflict is cyclical, it's easy to frame it as dark/negative and light/positive energy building up and then being released. Eggman tried to wake Dark Gaia up early with an extra dose of negative energy, which was almost but not quite enough, leading it to break apart. Once he brought all of it back together, along with what Sonic had gathered up, there was enough for Dark Gaia to form fully.

- Sonic only transforming when Dark Gaia becomes active at night.

Correlation is not causation. Yes, Dark Gaia is more powerful at night and Sonic transforms at night, but on that alone you can't declare that one causes the other. One could propose that negative energy becomes stronger at night, which would explain why Sonic transforms (because the negative energy in him becomes stronger) and why Dark Gaia becomes active (because he is or is powered by negative energy).

- Werehog form having identical aspects to Dark Gaia's pieces i.e Stretch limbs/An elastic quality to his body.

- The Wii version (Questionable canonicity?) outright stating that Sonic is using Dark Gaia's power.

And if "Dark Gaia's power" is negative chaos energy, this makes exactly as much sense as it does in your case.

And the energy-absorbing to change form peculiarity was even stated by a SEGA rep regarding the forms in Colours in that Hyper Go-on power/Colour Power causes Sonic's molecular structure to alter, resulting in the form change. Not to mention that the Wisp power-up's are explicitly referred-to as "Forms" in the game, by Tails no less. It's form-changing through energy-absorption, there is no other way you can look at it.

I'm not saying Sonic doesn't transform. That's blatantly obvious. I'm questioning if it has anything to do with Sonic in particular, if there is actually some special quality that Sonic has that allows him to transform, or if anyone can potentially transform, but only Sonic does because he's the hero/protagonist/player character. Considering we've seen other characters with super forms, and we've yet to see a character try and fail to transform, I don't see much reason to assume that only Sonic can transform.

[Vertekins]

I don't recall Dark Gaia's power ever being called Negative Chaos Energy. Pickle states that it's an "Hyper-Energy Organism". It's entry in the Bestiary states that it's the incarnation of darkness itself that feeds upon the darkness inside everyone's hearts and Eggman's cannon was never actually stated to enpower Dark Gaia, it was only ever stated to break the planet apart. The reason as to why Gaia broke apart was due to it being unable to sustain it's weight upon release because of waking too early. Surely if the cannon's beam was negative energy and Dark Gaia truly utilizes this energy, then seven emeralds worth of it would've instantly restored it? I don't recall either that Darkness/Negative Chaos Energy were ever explicitly said to be two sides of the same coin in the game.

I always had the vague impression that Dark Gaia and Sonic were actually implied to have been linked by the beam from the way that they exactly mimic each other, as if their motor abilities were linked. Sonic hits the floor, Gaia struck the tectonic plate at the same time. Sonic roars, so does Gaia at the same time.

[Diogenes]

I don't recall Dark Gaia's power ever being called Negative Chaos Energy.

And it was never stated to not be. Exactly what Dark Gaia is is never really explained. And it being based on negative chaos energy is a pretty plausible theory that fits both the facts and the tone of the game quite well.

Surely if the cannon's beam was negative energy and Dark Gaia truly utilizes this energy, then seven emeralds worth of it would've instantly restored it?

We have no way of knowing. If we decide that Dark Gaia is or is powered by negative energy, then we conclude that it isn't. If not, it's irrelevant.

I don't recall either that Darkness/Negative Chaos Energy were ever explicitly said to be two sides of the same coin in the game.

Again, it's a reasonable theory based on what information the game provides. SA told us the emeralds have positive and negative energy, and gave us the "thoughts into power" line. In Unleashed we've got the Dark and Light Gaias, connected to night and day, destruction and creation, and that are in some way connected to the emeralds (if nothing else there's the Gaia temples). And the monsters are, in a literal sense, the stuff of nightmares; they get in people's heads and wreck havoc with their emotions, making them depressed or hedonistic. You can draw some very strong connections between them.

I always had the vague impression that Dark Gaia and Sonic were actually implied to have been linked by the beam from the way that they exactly mimic each other, as if their motor abilities were linked. Sonic hits the floor, Gaia struck the tectonic plate at the same time. Sonic roars, so does Gaia at the same time.

Ehh, seems a bit of a stretch to me. I'm more inclined to say it was done for thematic effect than to imply some actual physical connection. And it doesn't really hold past those first few moments...

At any rate, the bigger point to this is, neither of us can prove our theories absolutely. The game isn't clear, and allows for multiple interpretations. So there's really not much ground to jump on someone for their concept being "nonsensical" when there is a perfectly sensible theory that can lead up to it*, and the best anyone can do is pick the theory that they personally find most convincing (or interesting, or whatever).

*granted, the chance of someone making a wereform for their fan character actually thinking through how that could work is pretty slim. But the possibility is there.

[SilentDoom]

Everyone trips at some point when they run in Brawl. And everyone hated that mechanic.

Fixed lol. Seriously, dumbest mechanic ever introduced both for casual and competitive play. It adds nothing to the game.

Though more on topic, personal pet peeve has to be the fact that there was never any kind of explanation to Amy's drastic aesthetic change. Seriously, out of every character her change was so drastic. I believe there was an explanation in the comics (correct me if I'm wrong, it had something to do with her rapidly ageing or something?) but there has never been one in the games. I can let Sonic, Tails, Knuckles etc slide because comparatively their changes weren't as drastic as Amy's. I mean c'mon, just look at this:

[Your Vest Friend]

Explanation: She's a tween girl. They like to experiment with looks all the time.

[Vertekins]

Fixed lol. Seriously, dumbest mechanic ever introduced both for casual and competitive play. It adds nothing to the game.

Though more on topic, personal pet peeve has to be the fact that there was never any kind of explanation to Amy's drastic aesthetic change. Seriously, out of every character her change was so drastic. I believe there was an explanation in the comics (correct me if I'm wrong, it had something to do with her rapidly ageing or something?) but there has never been one in the games. I can let Sonic, Tails, Knuckles etc slide because comparatively their changes weren't as drastic as Amy's. I mean c'mon, just look at this:

If Generations is canon with it's claims that the Classic versions of the characters are younger versions then it makes a lot of sense of Amy's classic design to simply be her when she was younger and that aging 4 years altered her appearance and made her more inclined to 'wear' her quills down.

Classic Amy has fewer quills than Classic Sonic, possibly explaining why she can easily put her quills down like that.

[The Conductor]

Yeah, in the Archie!Comics, she makes a wish on The Ring of Acorns (an extra special golden ring) to be older, and she becomes the Amy we know and love.

[Komodin]

Though more on topic, personal pet peeve has to be the fact that there was never any kind of explanation to Amy's drastic aesthetic change. Seriously, out of every character her change was so drastic. I believe there was an explanation in the comics (correct me if I'm wrong, it had something to do with her rapidly ageing or something?) but there has never been one in the games. I can let Sonic, Tails, Knuckles etc slide because comparatively their changes weren't as drastic as Amy's. I mean c'mon, just look at this:

IS it really that much of a stretch to just assume that, over the years, she just changed her clothes and hairstyle (and, I don't know, invested in getting some colored contacts)? I mean, all that aside, Classic and Modern Amy don't really look at all different from each other, unlike, say, the Drs. Eggmen.

[Your Vest Friend]

Or the different Chaot--*bricked*

[SilentDoom]

IS it really that much of a stretch to just assume that, over the years, she just changed her clothes and hairstyle (and, I don't know, invested in getting some colored contacts)? I mean, all that aside, Classic and Modern Amy don't really look at all different from each other, unlike, say, the Drs. Eggmen.

No but what I'm more getting at is what inspired the charge really. If it's literally just to portray and older Amy that's cool, but since her look has changed a lot I'd like to see a little back story. To fill in the gaps between the classics and Adventure for example (because Sonic 4 sure as hell didn't do that save for a couple of things).

Actually, Eggman is a pretty good example too. His appearances have changed even more drastically. You look at his classic look, his AoStH look, his SatAM look and his current look and it's crazy how different they all are.

[Kuzu]

No but what I'm more getting at is what inspired the charge really. If it's literally just to portray and older Amy that's cool, but since her look has changed a lot I'd like to see a little back story. To fill in the gaps between the classics and Adventure for example (because Sonic 4 sure as hell didn't do that save for a couple of things).

Well she did kind of look like Sonic in drag before, so I guess it was to differentiate her?

[Sarah Jane Smith]

If Generations is canon with it's claims that the Classic versions of the characters are younger versions then it makes a lot of sense of Amy's classic design to simply be her when she was younger and that aging 4 years altered her appearance and made her more inclined to 'wear' her quills down.

Classic Amy has fewer quills than Classic Sonic, possibly explaining why she can easily put her quills down like that.

I figure that Sonic's quills stay "horizontal" because of him constantly running and the wind making it that way, while Amy just had hairspray or something. Also they probably wanted her to look different from Sonic anyway.

[Vertekins]

I figure that Sonic's quills stay "horizontal" because of him constantly running and the wind making it that way, while Amy just had hairspray or something. Also they probably wanted her to look different from Sonic anyway.

I always thought that Amy's quills stay down because of her hairband and because she has one less quill than Sonic, which makes it easier for them to stay down whilst Sonic's quills are like that because he's a boy. Of course Darkspine form get Amy-like quills but they move about more and are much longer.

Also, Amy's classic design only has one quill on her back. Male Hedgehog's shown so far have two and Modern Amy seems to have either flattened it down on her back or cut it off

[Blue Blood]

If Generations is canon with it's claims that the Classic versions of the characters are younger versions then it makes a lot of sense of Amy's classic design to simply be her when she was younger and that aging 4 years altered her appearance and made her more inclined to 'wear' her quills down.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Diogenes]

It's left quite ambiguous, even moreso when you consider how much the plot doesn't make sense within itself (Crisis City and Stardust Speedway Bad Future say hi).

[Blue Blood]

haaaaa~

Oh shush I'm speaking from a general opinion. In my own eyes, the Modern gameplay borders on passable with a merely 'okay' rating at best, while the Classic gameplay is fun but riddled with issues in the way of scripting, and level design and physics being so different to the classics it's supposed to emulate. Say what you will about the game, but you know it was a positively received title.

[Sarah Jane Smith]

I always thought that Amy's quills stay down because of her hairband and because she has one less quill than Sonic, which makes it easier for them to stay down whilst Sonic's quills are like that because he's a boy.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the hairband. Much simpler explanation.

[Jack / Joker]

Has Sega ever made it clear that the white cuff isn't just a decoration of his shoe and instead a sock?

[Xenos]

Another pet peeve of mine is when Knuckles says or does things that make him look stupid. Knuckles' main flaw in the earlier games is that he's gullible and he's overly-trusting. Just because Knuckles trusts people doesn't mean he's not intelligent! Right? :S

That is actually just him getting flanderized lately. It's happening to most of the extended cast really.

[Chaos Warp]

the Modern gameplay borders on passable with a merely 'okay' rating at best, while the Classic gameplay is fun but riddled with issues in the way of scripting

But the Modern gameplay is awesome and is the best 3d gameplay so fa-you know what, screw it, back to topic.

I really hate it when people (an example is my friend) get a bad impression of the series and refuse to try any other game because the one game they've tried is a bad Sonic game (for my friend: 06). Damn stick in the muds, you could give it a second chance.

[Diogenes]

But the Modern gameplay is awesome and is the best 3d gameplay so fa-you know what, screw it, back to topic.

Y'know I know you want to get back on topic but this does legit bug me. "Generations is the best 3D Sonic so far"/"Modern Sonic is the best 3D gameplay so far". Well, maybe. It isn't ridiculously buggy, it doesn't have severe control issues, it isn't loaded with alternate gameplay, the graphics and music are top-notch, and that easily puts it above most if not all previous 3D Sonics.

But that doesn't make it good.

Whether in concept or execution (or both), 3D Sonic games have always fallen far short of what they could be, Generations included. I'm not just going to lay down and give it a "good enough" just because they've made a game that's competent when they've lost so much of the soul of the gameplay, when they've made a game about blasting down hallways with the occasional smattering of platforming when we should be seeing expansive physics playgrounds.

[Kuzu]

Y'know I know you want to get back on topic but this does legit bug me. "Generations is the best 3D Sonic so far"/"Modern Sonic is the best 3D gameplay so far". Well, maybe. It isn't ridiculously buggy, it doesn't have severe control issues, it isn't loaded with alternate gameplay, the graphics and music are top-notch, and that easily puts it above most if not all previous 3D Sonics.

But that doesn't make it good.

Whether in concept or execution (or both), 3D Sonic games have always fallen far short of what they could be, Generations included. I'm not just going to lay down and give it a "good enough" just because they've made a game that's competent when they've lost so much of the soul of the gameplay, when they've made a game about blasting down hallways with the occasional smattering of platforming when we should be seeing expansive physics playgrounds.

Not that I don't agree with this, but did it ever occur that some people just like the Modern gameplay for what it is?I mean is there a problem with that?

[Diogenes]

Not that I don't agree with this, but did it ever occur that some people just like the Modern gameplay for what it is?I mean is there a problem with that?

Yes. It's shallow gameplay, and supporting it prevents Sonic from being great.

[Chaos Warp]

Y'know I know you want to get back on topic but this does legit bug me. "Generations is the best 3D Sonic so far"/"Modern Sonic is the best 3D gameplay so far". Well, maybe. It isn't ridiculously buggy, it doesn't have severe control issues, it isn't loaded with alternate gameplay, the graphics and music are top-notch, and that easily puts it above most if not all previous 3D Sonics.

But that doesn't make it good.

Whether in concept or execution (or both), 3D Sonic games have always fallen far short of what they could be, Generations included. I'm not just going to lay down and give it a "good enough" just because they've made a game that's competent when they've lost so much of the soul of the gameplay, when they've made a game about blasting down hallways with the occasional smattering of platforming when we should be seeing expansive physics playgrounds.

Okay, I agree that 3d Sonic have not filled it's potential yet. I'll give you that. But, in my opinion, when you strip Sonic down to his very core, Sonic is a speedy platformer. The classic games implemented pinball physics and built the game around it, using that to gain speed, among other things. Most 3d titles lost this, but IMO they haven't lost what makes Sonic, well, Sonic: speedy platforming. And this applies to the Modern gameplay (And other 3d Sonic gameplay as well). I believe that Modern Sonic has the best 3d level design so far (with it's great balance of speed and platforming and multiple paths in most, read: MOST, of the levels), and is the most fun to me because it blends the rocket speed of Unleashed with some well designed platforming.

Which brings me to my next point: fun. Now, fun is extremely subjective, and I'm not going to argue if you find anything other then rolly-polly Sonic gameplay unfun. But as long as I have my speedy platforming (well balanced in the level design) and a reasonable amount of polish, I'll find it fun. And honestly, I find the Modern gameplay most fun because of it's well balanced speedy platforming, Unleashed rocket speed, and exploration with multiple pathways, constantly intertwining.

I also do wish for Sonic to have pinball-physics-based gameplay, and want 3d Sonic to fill it's potential and such (As of now, my favourite Sonic game is still 3&K), but I don't think that makes the Modern gameplay bad. I personally find it very fun, and for me it has not the full box but the crucial essence of what Sonic is to me, speedy platforming.

And that's why I think it's awesome and the best 3d gameplay so far.