Sonic's ideal characterization topic

[Mauro Fonseca]

Taking things back the the Adventure route and pushing the quality up for today's standards would be a good thing. 

 

Why?

 

Just answer me this. Can you not understand how hypocritical it is to accuse the current games of pandering to modern fans and children and then demand them to pander to you, adventure fans?

 

The Adventure games weren't good. I'm sorry, they weren't. They had great atmosphere, sure. Sonic played nice, ok. The multiple gameplay styles were nonsense that dragged it down. They were buggy. The story in Adventure 2 was idiotic and overacted.

 

This will obviously come to personal preference to each one., but just look at the reception of every rerelease of Adventure compared to, say, a rerelease of Sonic CD. It's obvious that for the majority of people, the Adventure games just aren't good. Why wuld returning to that be inherently a good idea? Be it in gameplay or story?

 

You claim Sonic can't be chasing the fleeting cool. Then demand he return to Adventure, which is pretty much textbook fleeting cool! "Oh what's cool in the turn of the century? Well Matrix is out, and Ghost in the Shell, uh, anime, serious tones, zeitgeist says government conspiracies."

 

I just really want to know. Do you not have the self awareness to realise you're demanding no better than what already exists?

[Vertekins]

Regarding this whole “Sonic is cooler when he’s being awkward in his coolness” …no, I can’t personally get behind that, can’t agree with it. Because games such as the Classic quartet on Mega Drive, the Adventure games, Unleashed and the Storybook games did a hell of a better job of cementing Sonic’s attitude and the impact of what he does to me than what Colours and Lost World ever did or likely ever will because in the former, Sonic acted like what he did came to him naturally, like he isn’t even trying, as if it’s so second nature to him that he doesn’t often feel the compulsion to shill himself, to go on some long, annoying speech about he's going to kick ass instead of getting right to it. Sonic is a man of action. Like Bill Clinton who's personality he was based off-of, he gets what he needs to get done immediately. This is partly what makes moments like these have such impact;

 

 

The latter games have very little grasp of this - Sonic’s actions and attitude lose their impact as a result because of the way he acknowledges them obnoxiously through speech. Now don’t get me wrong, SA2 for example had this issue to an extent with lines such as “Let’s go home. To the planet as cool and blue as me!” but I’ll throw it a bone simply because it was Sonic's way of trying to lighten up a very somber moment and also because lines like that are nowhere near as frequent;

 

 

It’s like he doesn’t put a lot of stock in what he does and sees fit instead to boast about what he does/gag for attention and praise when anyone who knows Sonic knows that he has enough self-assurance in his ego and what he can do to not be so prone to asking others to stroke his ego as well or feel awkward when he’s caught in the act doing so. In fact, he was established prior to Colours as never being adverse to the power of co-operation and it’s values, which makes his slowness to acknowledge Tails’ input as uncharacteristic. And whilst the “Bonehead” line was legitimately funny, Sonic’s a hypocrite saying it because he was no better with the whole conch-kicking incident.

 

I just don’t like much of the direction that Sonic’s mannerisms have taken over the past few years. He’s lost a large amount of his impact regarding how he acts and it’s negatively affected the character as far as I’m concerned.

[Milo]

Why?

 

Just answer me this. Can you not understand how hypocritical it is to accuse the current games of pandering to modern fans and children and then demand them to pander to you, adventure fans?

 

The Adventure games weren't good. I'm sorry, they weren't. They had great atmosphere, sure. Sonic played nice, ok. The multiple gameplay styles were nonsense that dragged it down. They were buggy. The story in Adventure 2 was idiotic and overacted.

 

This will obviously come to personal preference to each one., but just look at the reception of every rerelease of Adventure compared to, say, a rerelease of Sonic CD. It's obvious that for the majority of people, the Adventure games just aren't good. Why wuld returning to that be inherently a good idea? Be it in gameplay or story?

 

You claim Sonic can't be chasing the fleeting cool. Then demand he return to Adventure, which is pretty much textbook fleeting cool! "Oh what's cool in the turn of the century? Well Matrix is out, and Ghost in the Shell, uh, anime, serious tones, zeitgeist says government conspiracies."

 

I just really want to know. Do you not have the self awareness to realise you're demanding no better than what already exists?

 

 

Also worth noting that both of the Adventure games' re-releases (generally taking about the Gamecube ports-SA:DX and SA2B) are critically received noticeably lower than the original games, indicating that the games while great for their time don't age well-even though those ports were enhanced versions of the original game.

 

Compared that to the 2011 Sonic CD's re-release, where the majority of reviewers say the game still holds up. (Yes, Taxman's Sonic CD is a recreation, but considering how faithful it is to the original game I'd say it still counts.)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

This will obviously come to personal preference to each one., but just look at the reception of every rerelease of Adventure compared to, say, a rerelease of Sonic CD. It's obvious that for the majority of people, the Adventure games just aren't good. Why wuld returning to that be inherently a good idea? Be it in gameplay or story?

Because one could at least see some things worth salvaging and improving upon, whether story or gameplay. You say SA2's story was idiotic and overacted, but one could say the same thing regarding the stories of the more recent games like Colors and even Lost World, and add "barebones" or "sloppy" to the list as well. Most 3D Sonic games have their ups and downs worth noting and analyzing to at least build upon and make better the next time around. (someone just needs to get that through to Sonic Team so they stop throwing things away for something new)

 

I wouldn't say return to it in full due to the design problems it has, and failing to acknowledge these faults to praise the game would be blind fanboyism. But it's not like looking at the stuff they did well and going back to improve them more would be a bad thing.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Thank god that's now what I said then, CSS. It's different to grab what worked from previous styles than to just go "Adventure was inherently superior go with that".

 

@Verte- the point was that the way he acts now is what's "cool" nowadays. So we should expect more than that.

 

I'd also say you're overselling earlier 3D Sonic, but that's another point entirely. Point is, the argument was "modern Sonic is bad because he is not cool while Adventure Sonic was cool". Response is "Sorry, but by modern standards of cool in this post-ironic world modern Sonic is definitely cool".

[Kuzu]

Does it really matter? Like really, is there some universal definition of cool that Sonic needs to abide by?

If you think he's currently cool, Fine. If you think his past incarnations were cool, that's fine too. We're seriously arguing semantics at this point...again.

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[Kat]

@Verte- the point was that the way he acts now is what's "cool" nowadays. So we should expect more than that.

 

But do you genuinely find current Sonic (as in Colours and SLW) "cool", or do you just assume or accept that his behavior is cool, because the writers decided to depict him in a way that they thought to be the contemporary definition of cool?

 

I am really curious, because I am absolutely unable to find SLW's and Colours' Sonic even remotely "cool". When I hear those lines, I want to disappear into my couch in embarassement... And being an adult has nothing to do with that. The old cartoons and comics didn't make me feel much better when I was a kid/teenager (though not to that extent).

[azoo]

Why are we defining Sonic's 'coolness' off of what's popular at the moment regarding humor or whatever instead of qualities that would make him cool?

 

I don't see a single thing about an adventurous, young guy of constant action or self-driven will with a cocky, goofy air to him and a genuine heart of gold that screams "outdated" or "a product of an earlier decade". Am I missing something here?

 

I mean it's not like he can't be written to be funny, or have any range, because obviously he can. The current games just handle him in a way that doesn't gel so well with how Sonic's been known to be, and I think Verte nails it on what doesn't feel right.

[Kuzu]

Not that I despise how Sonic currently is, but I wouldn't really mind a composite of the two interpretations; someone who can be both awkward and a badass.

Alternately, have his boasting bite him in the ass by having him be attacked while boasting; there, Sonic looks vulnerable which causes him to get serious for a change.

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[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Thank god that's now what I said then, CSS. It's different to grab what worked from previous styles than to just go "Adventure was inherently superior go with that".

I honestly don't care if that's not what you said, I'm making a point by answering your question over why returning to the Adventures would be a good thing. What I'm reading from the conversation is that the person you're arguing with wants Sonic to stand the test of time, and believes that there are things worth going back to the Adventures for and building things up from there.

 

And in a way, he has a point. While the games haven't aged well, people do look back on the memories they had of the Adventure titles. I can see what kind of "timeless" cool he's talking about over the "fleeting" cool, one that balances things with a sense of depth to the lore and has a more universal appeal than a narrow one, but I should point out that in both cases it has more to do with crafting the experience to resonate with multiple groups than it does looking cool to whatever group that wants to be catered to.

 

Like that Pokemon example he made, there are tons of "cool" things there but there are tons of uncool stuff that people see as "cute" that reaches out to a broader demographic of people. Looking at it this way, the Adventures hit a lot of the same marks as Pokemon - chao gardens to take care of pets; ancient legends or lab experiments of awesome, yet dangerously powerful creatures; characters having a fun time, and stopping dangerous things from getting worse; different perspectives from multiple points and places; and (although it greatly varied in the Adventures) the player having fun playing through and exploring levels in the game. General ideas and stuff that can be adapted, molded, and remade to current standards instead of being left as the poorly aged mess it is now.

 

You can adapt a lot of things to Sonic in ways that could benefit him and the diverse audience he has or could attract. But if you want something timeless out of it, pidgeonholing him like they're doing now or even in previous games can restrict him from achieving that similar to how overbranching things such as gameplay to the point that there's no defined form or structure of Sonic. This isn't saying that branching out or being different is a bad thing that dilutes what Sonic is, but more that making him more adaptable and flexible to incorporate new things can be done while having a clear direction for him that builds upon the elements from the past.

[danidado]

Not that I despise how Sonic currently is, but I wouldn't really mind a composite of the two interpretations; someone who can be both awkward and a badass.

Alternately, have his boasting bite him in the ass by having him be attacked while boasting; there, Sonic looks vulnerable which causes him to get serious for a change.

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For what you're asking, here's a perfect example. This can work properly, without ruining Sonic's character, and without humiliating Eggman's.

 

[Celestia]

Honestly, I don't really think Sonic's changed that much. :/ Outside of oddities like his weird behaviour in ShTH and blandness in '06, he's always seemed like basically the exact same character to me. The only real difference in his actual character is that he's less proactive than he used to be, which is connected to the issue of less action/physical conflict in cutscenes these days.

 

I dunno, maybe I just don't see it. This is coming from the same guy who thinks the complaints about Knuckles being """stupid"" are greatly exaggerated (except maybe in terms of Boom), so...

[Kuzu]

I just wish he would stfu sometimes and actually take action some more.

I don't mind Sonic boasting, just how often it is done. I still think LW is a very flawed plot, but it at least got that right.

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[TheMessiah999]

Sonic's ideal character should be like he was in Adventure to Unleashed. He was cool,had attutiude,and was full of energy and action. Sonic went on adventures and got things done he's an action type hero not a comeidan. When you have him saying stuff like "badly Mcnosehair" that is CRINGE worthy dialogue and doesn't fit Sonic. That doesn't have any energy in it its nothing but a stupid joke Sonic is not supposed to be saying stupid jokes just a few one liner here and there. Sonic is also cocky and arrgoant plus a short temper is pushed the wrong way. Sonic does things his own way and follows his own path he should be like a leader of some sorts....Sonic should be living his life and be laid back as possible. In serious sitatuations yeah he should become a bit more serious but he's still that type of guy that could lighten up the mood but when fighting an enemy i'd love to see him say a witty one liner here and there but please....No Colors humor nobody wants that.

[Soniman]

....No Colors humor nobody wants that.

 

Oh...guess I have nothing to contribute to this topic then since I don't exist apparently.

 

Frankly Sonic stopped being any type of cool to me after SA2. In Heroes he was a one-dimensional catchphrase spewing caricature, Shadow, 06, and Unleashed have him as the typical bland hero who has no sense of edge to him at all whatsoever not helped but Griffith's dull VA work). Colors brought a bit of spark back to the played out dry character that had accumulated for Sonic's character in the past half-decade, he's a bit less active in cutscenes (which were made up for me through..you know...gameplay) but a thousand times more enjoyable, especially how he interacts with other characters in general. In SLW he was full of action and spends generally less time talking up the bad guys (because they can talk back and so he doesnt have to do all the work this time) but still made quips when appropriate, that is a near ideal Sonic to me.

 

I guess I prefer a Sonic who's less of a traditional cool guy and more of a mild dork who thinks he's cool but others don't seem to think so, he can still do cool things of course, but he's not always a slick as we're led to believe. Character flaws are more interesting to me I suppose

[azoo]

What about any of the earlier interpretations of Sonic made him seem like he didn't have character flaws? He's too hasty/impatient of a thinker, has an occasional irritable streak, let's his cockiness get to his head, and often lets his guard down.

 

Granted, yes, Heroes-06 did him no justice, but the classics, both Adventures, Unleashed, and even those confounded Storybook games feature these elements to him.

 

Basically, I don't know what ever stopped Sonic from giving quips, jokes and things before. Even if Colors/Lost World got that right and better than a pile of games in a row, I feel like the current take on him focuses too much on the 'talk' part as well as emphasizing his coolness (or thinks-he's-coolness) as a character trait, instead of having various traits that made him cool to start with.

 

I still think the haphazard way the characters are handled is because the perspective the stories are written. Several games in the series tell a story where the events are always moving and the characters are all put into action with brief moments of breather moments. In games like Colors, Generations and Lost World, every cutscene is the breather moment, where they stand around and talk, lacing the dialogue with all sorts of jokes and (often) ill attempts to progress the story instead of letting the action and subtext play it out.

 

We're at a point where Sonic's writing has improved but the stories and their progression have fallen into the latter hole, making where the writers want to take creative liberties with the characters and "expand" them, although they were expanded in the bigger stories of earlier games that unfortunately didn't have the most stellar writing. 

[Soniman]

What about any of the earlier interpretations of Sonic made him seem like he didn't have character flaws? He's too hasty of a thinker, has an occasional irritable streak, let's his cockiness get to his head, and often lets his guard down.

 

I worded that badly, I meant more of they're more readily noticeable to me I suppose, I never meant to say that Sonic was always this perfect hero who did no wrong (in MOST games anyway). Like in SA2 has him nearly dying because of his cockiness via Eggman's capsule trap and things like that. 

 

Basically, I don't know what ever stopped Sonic from giving quips, jokes and things before. Even if Colors/Lost World got that right and better than a pile of games in a row, I feel like the current take on him focuses too much on the 'talk' part as well as emphasizing his coolness (or thinks-he's-coolness) as a character trait, instead of having various traits that made him cool to start with.

 

While his joking nature has been more focused upon, I dont think his other traits have been rendered completley absent. I mean, he still has his kind heart, cares a bit for his friends, and as of SLW has shown is not above taking action when the time calls for it. Though I suppose the ideal solution would be to balance all of these traits to make more well rounded 

 

I still think the haphazard way the characters are handled is because the perspective the stories are written. Several games in the series tell a story where the events are always moving and the characters are all put into action with brief moments of breather moments. In games like Colors, Generations and Lost World, every cutscene is the breather moment, where they stand around and talk, lacing the dialogue with all sorts of jokes and (often) ill attempts to progress the story.

 

We're at a point where Sonic's writing has improved but the stories and their progression have fallen into the latter hole, making where the writers want to take creative liberties with the characters and "expand" them, although they were expanded in the bigger stories of earlier games that unfortunately didn't have the most stellar writing.

 

I believe this is why (for all the things it's gotten wrong so far) Sonic Boom's writing is seen as a decent improvement over stuff previously, because the story is a lot less focused on comedy then usual and several serious moments are intermixed with it all akin to something like SA1, therefore characters are allowed to "branch out" more now that the gameplay and cutscenes are a bit more in unison with the overall narrative rather then the previous games' "level - > cutscene -> level -> cutscene" pattern.

[Kuzu]

Yea, we'd probably get much more balanced characterization if the gameplay and story were far more integrated, it gives the writers more focus.

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[danidado]

Oh...guess I have nothing to contribute to this topic then since I don't exist apparently.

 

Frankly Sonic stopped being any type of cool to me after SA2. In Heroes he was a one-dimensional catchphrase spewing caricature, Shadow, 06, and Unleashed have him as the typical bland hero who has no sense of edge to him at all whatsoever not helped but Griffith's dull VA work). Colors brought a bit of spark back to the played out dry character that had accumulated for Sonic's character in the past half-decade, he's a bit less active in cutscenes (which were made up for me through..you know...gameplay) but a thousand times more enjoyable, especially how he interacts with other characters in general. In SLW he was full of action and spends generally less time talking up the bad guys (because they can talk back and so he doesnt have to do all the work this time) but still made quips when appropriate, that is a near ideal Sonic to me.

 

I guess I prefer a Sonic who's less of a traditional cool guy and more of a mild dork who thinks he's cool but others don't seem to think so, he can still do cool things of course, but he's not always a slick as we're led to believe. Character flaws are more interesting to me I suppose

 

I must disagree greatly, because Unleashed, Secret Rings and Black Knight were the games that really gave back Sonic's attitude after Heroes and '06 flanderizations.

 

But I want to know something : why so many people are so obsessed with having Sonic portrayed as a insensitive, idiotic, self-righteous and selfish bastard so much ?

 

How can you consider a character like this, who is supposed to be the hero, and hence to be sympathetic, LIKEABLE ???

 

I think Colors, Gens and Lost World have already showed how despicable and unlikeable is Sonic portrayed like this. Same for what is coming out from Boom

[Celestia]

I still think the haphazard way the characters are handled is because the perspective the stories are written. Several games in the series tell a story where the events are always moving and the characters are all put into action with brief moments of breather moments. In games like Colors, Generations and Lost World, every cutscene is the breather moment, where they stand around and talk, lacing the dialogue with all sorts of jokes and (often) ill attempts to progress the story.

This is sorta what I was getting at.

 

I think the writers have a more than decent grasp on Sonic's character, but they don't really have much to work with in terms of the actual plot, so they rarely get the chance to show it. Even when they had some more freedom it felt like they were still on a leash. I'm really curious to see what happens with the 2015/16 game, actually. Hopefully we'll see improvements on this rather than regression.

[TheMessiah999]

Oh...guess I have nothing to contribute to this topic then since I don't exist apparently.

 

Frankly Sonic stopped being any type of cool to me after SA2. In Heroes he was a one-dimensional catchphrase spewing caricature, Shadow, 06, and Unleashed have him as the typical bland hero who has no sense of edge to him at all whatsoever not helped but Griffith's dull VA work). Colors brought a bit of spark back to the played out dry character that had accumulated for Sonic's character in the past half-decade, he's a bit less active in cutscenes (which were made up for me through..you know...gameplay) but a thousand times more enjoyable, especially how he interacts with other characters in general. In SLW he was full of action and spends generally less time talking up the bad guys (because they can talk back and so he doesnt have to do all the work this time) but still made quips when appropriate, that is a near ideal Sonic to me.

 

I guess I prefer a Sonic who's less of a traditional cool guy and more of a mild dork who thinks he's cool but others don't seem to think so, he can still do cool things of course, but he's not always a slick as we're led to believe. Character flaws are more interesting to me I suppose

lol SLW Was not full of action and espically with those "things" you call villains? During those games before Colors he actually had a sense of empathy,lots of spirit,and didn't have time for stupid jokes. Storybooks is a great example of good writing stuff like "Badly McNose Hair" needs to stop and espically things like the "copyright law" joke that's all Sonic Colors is it's a joke. In Sonic Heroes the game was full of action and you saw not just Sonic but ALL the other characters in action. He's only less active in games like Shadow since it's Shadow's game not Sonic's. He's active in Rush,Battle,Storybooks,Adventure,and so on even 06 he was active everyone knew who to turn to to fight Solaris. He was bland in Unleashed? lol No the many moments he had with Chip? Come on now he was much better back then...now he's a joke and treats his friends like nothing.

[BabylonWave]

lol SLW Was not full of action and espically with those "things" you call villains? During those games before Colors he actually had a sense of empathy,lots of spirit,and didn't have time for stupid jokes. Storybooks is a great example of good writing stuff like "Badly McNose Hair" needs to stop and espically things like the "copyright law" joke that's all Sonic Colors is it's a joke. In Sonic Heroes the game was full of action and you saw not just Sonic but ALL the other characters in action. He's only less active in games like Shadow since it's Shadow's game not Sonic's. He's active in Rush,Battle,Storybooks,Adventure,and so on even 06 he was active everyone knew who to turn to to fight Solaris. He was bland in Unleashed? lol No the many moments he had with Chip? Come on now he was much better back then...now he's a joke and treats his friends like nothing.

Much agree, also because i forgot to say how Sonic treats his friends....no wait he has friends other than Tails? Knuckles maybe? who was barely in SLW and neither in Sonic Colours (Wii).

Back then you saw relationship between characters, it was a nice feeling, you saw Sonic in every perspective of his characterization.

Sega tried with SG, but they looked so 1 dimensional that sega could have scrapped them soon for how much they were useless in that game.

Ok little mission with the other character, i was expecting more from that game.

Example: In SG when modern Sonic saves Cream:

C: thanks for saving me mr sonic, i was scared but i tried to be brave!

S: *silent* *thumbs up like for saying shut up, i don't care*

What an interaction, so much feeling.

In Sonic Advance 2, when Cream cried because Eggman stole her mom under her nose, Sonic got mad and trasformed into Super Sonic and made her a promise to take back Vanilla. It was silent, 32 bit game and yet much more strong.

Agree? Good. Do not? Patience, i'm not here to please everyone.

[Soniman]

 

I think Colors, Gens and Lost World have already showed how despicable and unlikeable is Sonic portrayed like this. Same for what is coming out from Boom

 

Sonic was a real asshole for pushing Tails in that space elevator for his own saftey.

 

Sonic was a real jerkass for showing great remorse for his actions in letting Tails get kidnapped and inavertandly kicking letting the D6 nearly kill his entire world with all his friends and spent half the game cutting the shit and only focused on rescuing Tails. He even expressed grief when Eggman sacrificed himself just to save his life.

 

What an unlikable, selfish character.

[100Rings]

I honestly don't care if that's not what you said, I'm making a point by answering your question over why returning to the Adventures would be a good thing. What I'm reading from the conversation is that the person you're arguing with wants Sonic to stand the test of time, and believes that there are things worth going back to the Adventures for and building things up from there.

 

And in a way, he has a point. While the games haven't aged well, people do look back on the memories they had of the Adventure titles. I can see what kind of "timeless" cool he's talking about over the "fleeting" cool, one that balances things with a sense of depth to the lore and has a more universal appeal than a narrow one, but I should point out that in both cases it has more to do with crafting the experience to resonate with multiple groups than it does looking cool to whatever group that wants to be catered to.

 

Like that Pokemon example he made, there are tons of "cool" things there but there are tons of uncool stuff that people see as "cute" that reaches out to a broader demographic of people. Looking at it this way, the Adventures hit a lot of the same marks as Pokemon - chao gardens to take care of pets; ancient legends or lab experiments of awesome, yet dangerously powerful creatures; characters having a fun time, and stopping dangerous things from getting worse; different perspectives from multiple points and places; and (although it greatly varied in the Adventures) the player having fun playing through and exploring levels in the game. General ideas and stuff that can be adapted, molded, and remade to current standards instead of being left as the poorly aged mess it is now.

 

You can adapt a lot of things to Sonic in ways that could benefit him and the diverse audience he has or could attract. But if you want something timeless out of it, pidgeonholing him like they're doing now or even in previous games can restrict him from achieving that similar to how overbranching things such as gameplay to the point that there's no defined form or structure of Sonic. This isn't saying that branching out or being different is a bad thing that dilutes what Sonic is, but more that making him more adaptable and flexible to incorporate new things can be done while having a clear direction for him that builds upon the elements from the past.

Wow...summed up exactly what I was gonna say. I accidentally backspaced my words away and lost the energy tto retype it all back up...but after reading all of that you made my point for me.

 

I think people misunderstand us Adventure fans. We don't want a sequel or a pandering. We want a game that can make the series appealing again. The B-Grade action movie tropes with that dash of Shounen anime flair all combined together to make a memorable experience that many are still talking about and wanting back to this day. I can remember back when I was probably....12 or 13 . It was a thanksgiving party and the folks at this party had a GC with SA2B. It was a SMASH hit! The game never got switched out all night. The younger kids loved the grind racing just as much as the "cool [pre]teens" liked it. (me) Note that this was well past SA2' prime yet it still had the fun factor that kept everyone engaged regardless of the age of the kids or the game. Everyone likes cool things!

 

The "self-conscious" coolness doesn't do well in a setting that one has to take seriously. Someone who is always undermining themselves by doing lame things but believing it to be cool does NOT work well in an action setting that isn't a satire. Sonic's character was more "genuine" than that. In CD you saw this "no-nonsense" cool dude running around handling business. He wasn't doing "lame dorky things" while under the impression that it was "whey paste kewlll!!!1". Sonic had a confidence in himself to handle things. Even the creators said they gave Sonic a "Let's get it done" attitude. That is something that is timeless. Confident heroes will NEVER become "outdated"  Whether the game is light or dark doesn't matter. A Sonic game can still be lighthearted and have appeal "Advance series" just as much as it can be darker and have appeal (Sonic 06). I wanna see fair and equal representation of both.

Sonic was a real asshole for pushing Tails in that space elevator for his own saftey.

 

Sonic was a real jerkass for showing great remorse for his actions in letting Tails get kidnapped and inavertandly kicking letting the D6 nearly kill his entire world with all his friends and spent half the game cutting the shit and only focused on rescuing Tails. He even expressed grief when Eggman sacrificed himself just to save his life.

 

What an unlikable, selfish character.

Every single one of those "caring" moments felt like contrived, Saturday morning cartoon" moral reminders, jammed in at the last second to remind us that Sonic isn't a complete bastard and that we can still like the blue prick just a little.

 

On the other hand. Sonic telling Tails to take care of Amy before he was "exploded" holds far more weight and meaning since Sonic presented himself as a balanced character rather than the 1 dimensional puppet he is now.

 

Sonic looking for tails in SA1 after the two of them crash landed feels more genuine. 

 

Sonic in CD fighting off Metal Sonic to save Amy show's he really cares. This may be more subtle but my point stands. 

 

Knuckles, after being betrayed by Eggman, changing his ways to help Sonic and Tails held more emotional weight as well. I was pretty engrossed by that.

 

In the Storybook games also do a superb job of showing off Sonic's emotional side.

 

Why replicate Colors "drama" when we have so many better examples to build off of. The "Oops! I screwed up!" cliche is so played out. It would be much more interesting to think that Sonic had really out smarted Eggman in one game but. over the span of a few games. Eggman gets the jump on Sonic and shows him just where he slipped up. then Sonic REALLY realizes that his actions have lasting repercussions as Eggman shows that Sonic's predictable mistake gave Eggman the opportunity to complete his "master plan". The conflict in Colors and SLW was shallow and surfacey and it couldn't help being shallow and surfacey since that was the intention from the very start and since the series has proven to do greater things in the past.

[Mauro Fonseca]

None of those greater things happened in the Adventures, surely?