Sonic's ideal characterization topic

[Chaos Incarnate]

.Now i agree that if the opponent is saying something thats challenging sonic in any way that he should answer back but can you tell me what exactly the deadly six are saying that is worth sonics time.

Ever heard of the phrase "actions speak louder than words?" 

 

 

As Komodin stated, I think the "diet and exercise" little tidbit is perfectly justified here. Along with, ya know, attacking Sonic the entire game, nearly killing Tails earlier  along with the Deadly Six, you should get the gist of it.

[Wraith]

I dont agree with having sonic constantly making such remarks cause that would turn the story to almost colors levels where the plot is a comedy. Now i agree that if the opponent is saying something thats challenging sonic in any way that he should answer back but can you tell me what exactly the deadly six are saying that is worth sonics time.

 

They're constantly threatening to kill him. Like, constantly. Not even during just cutscenes. During levels. The deadly six are constantly screaming and shouting about how badly they're going to beat Sonic's ass. 

 

Also, notice that when his friends were in danger the joking stopped. Sonic knows when he has room to joke around and when he needs to get shit done here.

[100Rings]

 

Y'know I don't think I ever posted my thoughts in this topic.

I want him to be a bit of a punk. He's a hedgehog, he's prickly by nature, and we all know he's got an attitude. He's fiercely independent, and follows his own heart above anything else. He's confident and cocky, with the skills to back it up, and he treats even dangerous situations like an exciting adventure.

 

But, of course, all of this is tempered by the fact that he's a genuinely good guy. He'll never just stand by and let people suffer. He's always willing to help his friends. And whatever he sets his mind to, he'll always give 100%.

 

I feel like a lot of the games (if they even give him characterization beyond "is the hero" and "is a cool guy") focus too much on the latter while neglecting the former. Yes, he's good, and honest, and brave, and he cares about his friends, and that's all important, but you can say the same about almost any hero. What makes Sonic interesting is that he's not just a squeaky clean hero type. He's a rebel, an outlier, a Chaotic Good. That's one of the reasons I think SLoW's story is so important, because he's got some of that edge back after it being missing for so long.

 

 

 

Ah, but he does say "this could be fun!" before the fight. He's not treating Chaos 0 like a serious threat, he's treating it like a game.

 

He also wasn't standing there letting Chaos 0 know how much of an incompetent, inferior infidel peon he was. He was going with the moment and having fun. Not being insulting.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

As Komodin stated, I think the "diet and exercise" little tidbit is perfectly justified here.

 

Plus, Sonic is here advocating a healthy diet and plenty of exercise. He's insulting them with good advice.

[PandoloFox]

Unless the Villains can show that they are an actual threat right from the start, there's not reason Sonic can't let out any sort of snark or cockiness at all before he beats them. It basically means that Sonic would pretty much have to treat any villain that he faces like they all = the same amount of threat factor and then wait for him to boast a one-liner at the end... That doesn't seem very interesting, since Sonic rarely one liners anyway.

I get your point and i can agree to it, but making jokes that are just there to insult a stereotype and has no deeper meaning is kinda pointless.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Question: Aside from the big confrontation resulting from the kicked conch, when were anu of the D6 members even remotely close to killing Sonic?

 

Sonic making fun of a person because he's fat is immature and puerile. I know Sonic doesn't always act his age but for God's sake is it acceptable in today's society to walk up to someone who is sitting there eating a sandwich and burst out with a joke at their weight. No. That isn't even appealing as weight joke's are just insensitive. I don't know why I'm explaining why making fun of someone's weight isn't cool haha xDD

 

I know you might bring up SA1 where Sonic calls Eggman "a giant talking Egg."  Ok yeah weight joke. But it has context since Eggman and Sonic have some sort of weird "frienemy" thing going on so Sonic making fun of Eggman feels more natural since Sonic and Eggman have always hated/rivaled each other.

 

 

As for facing other threats like Dark Gaia. Yeah I know. But the thing is that Sonic took those situations far more seriously and didn't go out of his way to insult gigantic primordial creatures. Sonic has the capability to take his adversaries seriously and while I'm not saying Sonic should have taken those "ogres" as you put it (haha!) seriously.  Why should Sonic lower himself to such standards when he can handle things much worse? I don't see why Sonic's character needs to insult those that are obliviously and woefully incompetent. They couldn't even stop Tails from shooting at them...when they have control over machinery! I don't see why these character's were even threats to the Sonic and why Sonic needed to stoop to their stereotypical level. Now Sonic trading insults with someone who can actually match him would be a REAL battle! Sonic taking his usual cheap shots only to be greeted with something equally as stinging would catch Sonic off guard and perhaps even evoke a sense of fun since he has met a worthy challenge. Sonic picking at incompetent villains didn't come off as cocky and awesome to me. It lacked the depth to be interesting. 

Jesus christ, it's like you and your little posse are being dense on purpose.

 

When has it not been established that Sonic has kinda been a cocky bastard that has fun bad situations and tries to make the best of them from the get go? (which can also include making a joke at your enemy's expense, which only nearly every cocky hero in everything has done?????)

 

You have a problem with Sonic making fun of enemy? Fine, whatever. But don't start acting as if it's a problem all of a sudden. I don't wish to go any further with this, it's like you people are deliberately grasping at straws here.

[Diogenes]

He also wasn't standing there letting Chaos 0 know how much of an incompetent, inferior infidel peon he was.

Right, he didn't do that, and he's never done that.

Sometimes he taunts his enemies, because he's a cocky little punk, but he doesn't do whatever the hell that is.

[PandoloFox]

They're constantly threatening to kill him. Like, constantly. Not even during just cutscenes. During levels. The deadly six are constantly screaming and shouting about how badly they're going to beat Sonic's ass. 

 

Also, notice that when his friends were in danger the joking stopped. Sonic knows when he has room to joke around and when he needs to get shit done here.

yes they are but there realy is no relevance between that and saying that you need to excersize, maybe its just me but i want an answer to actualy have more context than just pointing out that the other person is fat.

[Nepenthe]

Good on people for trying to move on, but I feel it's in everyone's best interest to understand why what they have just done a few pages ago is completely ridiculous so that we hopefully don't have a repeat incident, so I'm going to go in-depth on just what went wrong and why people are about to receive strikes. First of all:
 

Okay, no.
 
All that's been going on in here has been borderline attacking, rude and condescending remarks lashed back and forth, intentionally missing points for the sake of arguing even more on the subject, immature statements and namecalling meant to start scuffles, and whatever else. This is happening in varying amounts from both sides of the argument, so stop. Now.
 
As for the newcomers here, I'm finding it really strange that a lot of you suddenly joined this forum and just so happened to gang up with this one person to defend your position in a really rude manner. If you'd read the rules you'd understand that while we have open arms for bringing more people into our community, doing it primarily to cause fights and heated arguments because one of your guy's arguments isn't holding a candle does not help your image here, especially if you can't debate without mudslinging. Granted, that's if you guys even had any relation to each other before this, but even so, it's one strange coincidence.
 
Be more respectful, and learn some tact to your arguments. All of you. I shouldn't even have to tell more seasoned members this.

 
Remember that? We already had one staff member tell you all to be respectful in discussing this topic, particularly the newcomers because for whatever reason you guys seem the most eager to use the most inciting language and dismissive tone when discussing the subjects at hand, and most annoyingly you are refusing blame for anything wrong. Second, what Azookara stated is in the rules which you automatically agree to abide by when you sign up here:
 

Feel free to be friendly and understanding towards other members. Because it's awesome. It's great when people aren't ignorant (like refusing to acknowledge when you've lost an argument), stirring drama or flaming other members. It's also great when people use the report button for bad posts and topics instead of publicly being hostile to someone else. If you see rules being broken then report it, don't address it yourself; it makes the forum look like a horrible place to hang out and it makes you look like a douchebag as well.

 
So with that context established:
 

It was written by a stock writer with no knowledge of the series for God's sake! How many excuses can you in all logical honesty make for it?

 

But if that is legitimately all you have to say in response to my overall point, I know the argument is over.

 

I see many people here on TSS more devoted to pointing out tone of voice rather than actual validity of points. It is a debate. My hyperbolic tone of voice shouldn't concern you. The opponent's main concern in the midst of a debate is to find lapses in logic and exploit them. Whether I present them in a different way doesn't matter. If you can't take the truth seriously why bother debating. You seem to be more preoccupied psychoanalyzing tone of voice instead of responding with your own arguments (not specifically you but you get the idea.)

 

Well in that case you aren't interested in debating.
 
Concession accepted.

 

I wanted to but it seems some users were mad at my tone but never explicitly stated what exactly pissed them off. I'm glad it's productive once again.

 

All of these posts and the bolded statements are full of so much lip-curling, edgy snark and actually passing off opinions as facts that it would make Kim Kardashian projectile vomit. It doesn't matter that you didn't actually use an insulting word towards someone. We expect people to also be aware of their tone of voice and police it for the sake of not inciting others and stirring up the flames. You thought completely wrong if you didn't think you had any responsibility to actually be respectful in conversation. So you can have a strike. Learn to tone it down and converse with people without looking down on them or treating discussions of cartoon hedgehogs like a contest.

And you:
 

First of i have no problem with that people want someone to be more respectful but when that becomes your only point your argument becomes weak, try telling that to your boss at work and see how long you will last. of course this is a public comment section where we discuss sonic so this comparison may sound a bit extreem but it is in my belief that as long as you are not getting personaly insulted the attitude shouldnt matter. if you dont like a superior tone then debate and prove your point.

 

I already stated that its understandable to want people to be respectful but when that is all you can say you are basicaly just whining and honestly nobody likes whiners either. If you wanted to point out 100rings tone than you should have done what omega kuzu did. first debate the actual topic and then comment on the attitude. this way you are actualy having a conversation, you just complaining about tone makes you a hypocrite since your own tone isnt likeable either at this point.

 

I didnt adress you personaly and just explained myself but if thats how you wanna look at it fine then let me ask you if you think your answer had a better tone than mine? I said that wanting people to be respectful is understandable in other words i am meeting you half way and then proceed to argue my point. now lets take a look at your answer. *Nice one, talking about people being respectful and such then calling me a whiner in the same post* your insulting me here my friend and i dont find that likeable since you could just have pointed me to thatlinked dicussion in a friendly manner.

First of all, the only remotely comparable thing to a boss in this thread are the participating staff members, so using that as an analogy is amazingly shortsighted and egotistical. You as a member are not obligated to any respect that you are not willing to give yourself, and calling people whiners for being upset that others are blatantly talking down to them is not indicative of anything resembling respectfulness. Furthermore, you are guilty of the same misunderstanding 100 Rings is- your tone does matter. Acting snide, snobby, superior, and all around rude is something staff does not tolerate from anybody. Newcomers have been immediately suspended in far less time for this same thing. So with all of that established, compounded on by the fact that I already had a run-in with your shitty attitude before, means you can have a strike too.
 

You do realize that while Omega Kuzu was criticizing the tone of your posts, he was also advising you how to write your posts so people would understand your points better and also said that he understood the points you were making, right?
 
You and your posse are trying way too hard by this point to make yourselves look like you're not in the wrong on any point, to the extent that it makes the lot of you come off as completely unable to listen to reason.

 

While I understand why you're upset, I feel like out of all the people trying to iterate the points I'm making you were the most hostile, what with derogatorily calling them a posse. In general, members are not supposed to be policing the thread themselves so much as reporting this kind of thing to staff so we can handle it. The thread is done no favors when a back and forth is issued between members of the same authoritative standing. This is not only a message to you but to everyone else who partook in the same behavior. Once again, ignore and report; staff can handle it.

 

Overall though, I've long been tired of people escalating topics where there need not be any hostility whatsoever. I've put my foot down in the Sonic Boom forum and I'm putting my foot down here. No more of this shit. Strikes will continue to be had on the spot when I and other staff members see fit.

[PandoloFox]

Plus, Sonic is here advocating a healthy diet and plenty of exercise. He's insulting them with good advice.

if he had a more respectful voice in his voice i could have written it of as that but he is clearly being sarcastic and making fun. the lines dont matter when the person isnt meaning it.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Ok...now I must ask you...are you being dense?

 

I just said in my SAME POST that I don't care if Sonic makes jokes at someone else's expense.

 

My exact words are as follows:

 

" Now Sonic trading insults with someone who can actually match him would be a REAL battle!  Sonic taking his usual cheap shots only to be greeted with something equally as stinging would catch Sonic off guard and perhaps even evoke a sense of fun since he has met a worthy challenge."

 

The way SLW presented it's "insult the bad guy" felt so childish, like a kid making fun of a really fat guy because he is fat. It doesn't help that the D6 rarely prove to be competent seeing as how they were all thrashed by Sonic and only got an advantage through dumb luck.

 

The interactions with the D6 were so trite and felt like I said before, a child insulting another person's flaws because they simply are there. I get that Sonic might have been triggered by the other "insults" that were thrown at him but Why should take offense at insults thrown at him by some of the most pathetic villains in Sonic history? It feels immature to see Sonic all of a sudden get in petty insult wars with character's that have no depth beyond some harsh stereotypes.

 

If Sonic actually had a worthy insult adversary...that would shake things up a bit. 

This discussion was already over, and I've more than lost my cool with you. Do you honestly think I did not take your words into account and how much I disagree with them, or even care when every thing you've said has made no effort to add any credibility to how you disagree with the people discounting your objective claims?

 

Now good day sir. I and everyone else have had our say in this topic, I'm done here.

[PandoloFox]

Ever heard of the phrase "actions speak louder than words?" 

 

 

As Komodin stated, I think the "diet and exercise" little tidbit is perfectly justified here. Along with, ya know, attacking Sonic the entire game, nearly killing Tails earlier  along with the Deadly Six, you should get the gist of it.

If you only look at it from a few scenes than yeah you would be correct, i also dont complain here about the few scenes that are good im talking about the context of the jokes and how the characters mostly act. I would like the jokes if they had a bit more relevance. Slw has good scenes but they dont connect well together so its hard for me to take every serious moment serious. As for what they say inside the levels is harder to pick up so im sorry if i dont remember every words from there.

[Kuzu]

I apologize for that earlier post, had no idea Nepenthe had posted prior.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[100Rings]

I apologize for that earlier post, had no idea Nepenthe had posted prior.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nor did I. Post lag didn't alert me.

 

I honestly wasn't trying to be antagonistic. I was only being objective. Observing TSS, it seems people are far more touchy here than anywhere else I've been.. I'm used to the "don't mince words" attitude of the SEGA forums I guess lol

 

Meh w/e, this community warning gives me some street cred.

[PandoloFox]

I apologize if i offended someone, that was not my intention.

[Dracold]

For all things that is being talked about here, I see one thing very baffling.

There are people who for some reason started defending childish games with the quote of C. S. Lewis. I don't know if I saw it here too, it was walls and walls of text to go through. Yet some people here seem to have the same mindset like other people who promote childish games on youtube, defending themselves with a quote of the great C. S. Lewis.

 

But they forget, that he also stated something else that gives it the completely opposite meaning than they think it has:

“A children's story that can only be enjoyed by children is not a good children's story in the slightest.”

 

That is what I is the most important thing here. In order for anyone to think that Sonic Lost World or Sonic Colors (and Sonic Generations) characterization was any good, he would have to reduce himself into kid. Forget his entire life experience. He would have to suddenly love stereotypic and cliché behavior all over again, because as a kid, he was never exposed to it. He would have to be stupid and not experienced enough to translate the morals of that game. I mean, the morals of the game are most likely intended as good advices. But if you look at how they work and how they are delivered, you only see the most foul behavior ever promoted in a game for children. Only the smallest kids could possible understand it as something good, since their limited exposure to it and their shallow understanding would prevent them from seeing the horrible things those games are trying to teach them. But as those kids mature, they must either realize that this is not a good children's story in the slightest, or they will become like Sonic - jerks.

 

I strongly believe that this motivation to justify the writing of people who had no clue about Sonic and his characters is not actually coming from the real actions and behavior they had in those games - it's coming from the illusion that they were actually doing something this time. That they actually talked to each other this time. In all games after SA2 up to Sonic Colors, characters barely interacted with each other. But for me at least, they were somehow kind of still good characters (except for Knuckles... oh, dear Knuckles...). Those stories were clear simple and yes, completely empty videogame stories (maybe except for ShtH and 06, but those games had other issues). All the lines were delivered just so we had this idea floating at the back of our heads what feeling we should have from each individual character. Those were very weak echos of what Sonic Adventure characterizations used to be. But those echos were there.

 

You can't deny that ever since Colors, due to people who didn't have any exposure to Sonic material in their lives before and made their research very poorly, we got the personalities completely rebooted. If you pay close attention, you must see that the personalities are completely rebooted. And they are rebooted into people who are, all of them, entirely unlikable and stupid, with one strong focus on comedy, that is trying to disguise the weak, naked plot.

 

Maybe it's just me, but when I listen to Sonic, I don't hear Sonic. I hear the writer wondering how does the world around him make sense. I hear him joking about the context of his adventure being stupid. I hear him not taking seriously anything at all, for the sake of trying to be like Sonic, since writer probably read that this was supposed to be Sonic's shtick. Sonic approaches everything and everyone with "LOL, look at you!" But the most troubling thing is complete lack of energy. All his lines are delivered while he is just standing there. He is standing and talking, like a comedian. He is supposed to be an action hero, not a comedian.

I like the banter in Sonic Heroes (as opposed to the banter in Sonic Boom, from what we could hear to this point). It's because despite most of the time, they are just uttering tutorial things about what buttons you should push, they are excited about the high speed adventure and they Believe that their world is real and they are taking a serious part in it. Most of the time, Sonic is talking on the run. Even the voiceacting is helping considerably. All lines are delivered as if you were indeed running at supersonic speeds along with Sonic and his friends. You just feel the wind blowing in your face, you can even have sometimes difficulty to hear what your friends say despite they are shouting, because of the gusts of wind taking their lines away from your ears. This is the real action. Even though the story is not really there. And even though Amy went completely nuts (I will not defend her behavior there).

In Sonic Colors, Generations, Lost World and Boom, you don't hear that. You hear voiceactor, sitting in a studio, looking at the scenery and thinking "Heh, that looks real funny. I should comment on it's shape, appearance or stupid behavior!"

 

But the point I brought up what C. S. Lewis said was mostly Tails behavior in Colors and Lost World. I am guilty of loving Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. And those were the first games that tried to establish the characterizations beyond their silent Classic appearances. And I loved the characters ever since. Tails used to be genius, but really humble. He didn't even realize himself that he was genius. All he wanted was to prove himself being useful. That was the charm of his character. Somebody, who would in any other collective of people the most important person by default because of his superior intellect, was acting like a nice little boy who wanted to be good to all his friends around him. And what was even cuter about that was, that he wanted to be like Sonic. He wanted to be like person who was not as smart as him. Why? Because Sonic obviously had other qualities Tails just so much admired. That was why they became friends in the first place.

Yet, in Colors, Tails is talking about how intelligent he is and how much Sonic needs him in a sarcastic voice, trying to sound like he is needed. He said this as if he almost want to blackmail Sonic: "See how you would succeed without me!" In Lost World, I won't lie... it straight offended me. A cute little brother he was supposed to be turned completely into a person that has his entire personality based on him being the smartest there is. And if there was even a single doubt that he was not the smartest ever, he would stop working like a character. He would just be reduced as "the second smartest", and that would highly offend him. He pushed it so far, that he had to insult Eggman not for Eggman being evil... but for Eggman not being smart enough. That is how beginning writers write Mary Sue characters. They come up with character that is the number one in at least one regard. And that status can never be challenged. If it did, the purpose of that character would crumble.

But that's not the worst thing. The worst thing is how it's pushed in a way we are supposed to believe that the choices of the heroes had anything to do with good morals. Kids could believe that all the things the good guys do are good, and all the things to evil guys do are evil. But that's not remotely what is really happening there. The script is written in a way we are supposed to laugh at stupidity of Eggman, EVEN when he acts for a greater good. We are supposed to think that he is a stupid idiot, even when he is trying to help Sonic. We are supposed to think that he is moron, even if he thinks that Tails is being embarrassing because of being upset for not being praised as the smartest one in the group. We are supposed to believe that, because Eggman in the end does get punished in a the exactly same way he used to be punished for everything, even the good things - by being shown to us that he's stupid and pathetic.

And Tails is being arrogant. And we are taught that this behavior is great. Because the script validates everything Tails said. He is right at everything in the end. He saves the day and in doing so, he proves to us that being arrogant about our intellect and superiority is the right way to go. The story never punishes him for being this way. The story only praises him for being this way.

Sonic makes mistake because being too fast... for the second time... and he acknowledges this mistake by stating that he was not fast enough. Even though in other scenes, he behaves slightly better than Tails, he doesn't really learn anything. He just says so. But we never really see him do anything as a result of this life lesson. He keeps doing the same thing he always does.

 

The most troubling thing for me is that some people here, ... are people who want lighthearted content AND they praise Tails in Lost World. This is the most dark incarnation of Tails ever being presented to us. In SA, even in SA2 (quite dark game), Tails is being just a little cute boy who is just learning how to take care of things himself. Even so, he still wants to be like Sonic, because Sonic is a cool hero according to him. Sonic is not afraid or is good in overcoming his fear. Sonic is never giving up, even though Eggman is scoring small victories against him. Sonic may act like he is having fun on the account of others, but he is incredibly nice to his friends and he is trying to alleviate their worries. This is the epitome of being light hearted. That is the reason why Tails like Sonic, why is Tails his friend, why Tails follows Sonic on his adventures even though they are many times dangerous... that is the reason Tails is likable lighthearted character. At least to me.

And what we get in Sonic Lost World? We got Tails who laughs at Sonic for his low intellect and is annoyed at Sonic's stupidity, as demonstrated when Sonic says that he would smash the machine: "Well, that's what I do." Tails is annoyed, because Sonic is being a brainless jerk. He is only being shown to have positive feelings to Sonic when Sonic either acknowledges his superior intellect, like when fixing the plane or when returning the worlds energy... or when they are making fun of Eggman, because Eggman is stupid and evil.

 

Tell me... why did they have to change Tails character for you to start like him or keep liking him? I know that ever since SA2, Tails really didn't do much. But at least he was still a good kid. Now you are willing to like him for personality features you would absolutely hate on a real life person, just because you see him finally do something and being relevant? How could you think that only now are Sonic stories appropriate to children even though this behavior? Why were they not appropriate to children before? Why would children before not like those stories?

 

It really makes me cry when people praise Tails in SLW for being a great character once again.

[Tani Coyote]

For all things that is being talked about here, I see one thing very baffling.

There are people who for some reason started defending childish games with the quote of C. S. Lewis. I don't know if I saw it here too, it was walls and walls of text to go through. Yet some people here seem to have the same mindset like other people who promote childish games on youtube, defending themselves with a quote of the great C. S. Lewis.

 

But they forget, that he also stated something else that gives it the completely opposite meaning than they think it has:

“A children's story that can only be enjoyed by children is not a good children's story in the slightest.”

 

That is what I is the most important thing here. In order for anyone to think that Sonic Lost World or Sonic Colors (and Sonic Generations) characterization was any good, he would have to reduce himself into kid.

While you're free to critique the direction the story and dialogue have taken, let's avoid implying that those who enjoy Lost World, Colors' or Generations' characterization have the minds of children.

[BabylonWave]

While you're free to critique the direction the story and dialogue have taken, let's avoid implying that those who enjoy Lost World, Colors' or Generations' characterization have the minds of children.

If they do, are their problems but i hope SEGA doesn't listen that minority because bunch of many other Sonic fans are versus this charactetization.

[Tara]

If they do, are their problems but i hope SEGA doesn't listen that minority because bunch of many other Sonic fans are versus this charactetization.

No, we're not going to accept disrespect and undervaluing of the opinions of other fans.  The people who are satisfied with the direction have as much right to be as those that are satisfied and deserve as much attention from Sega as those as those that don't.

 

The only reason I'm not striking you is because I honestly am hardly even sure what specifically you're trying to say and can't discern your tone with all the typos and missing words.  But as it stands, I'm just going to warn you that any further disrespect to the opinions of others will be met with a strike.

[TearForFear]

Dear Dracoid.

 

As far as I remember, I never met a fan of Sonic Colors/Generation/Lost World that's also a jerk.

 

If you cared to read the post of those who defended said games, you'll see that they praise this incarnation of Sonic (and Tails in Colors) for his positive, friendly, fun-loving, light hearted attitude.

 

The teases Sonic and Tails throw at each other in Colors are not mean spirited. Sonic and Tails act like two friends who love each others company, love to make fun of themselves, love to harmlessly tease each others, love to be friends.

 

Like... for example... let's players on youtube!

 

 

 

They insults each other, yes, but this means nothing. At the end of the day, they are friends who like each others company and have fun together.

 

 

Tell me, am I a jerk for seeing things in this positive light?

[Kiah]

Dear Dracoid.

As far as I remember, I never met a fan of Sonic Colors/Generation/Lost World that's also a jerk.

Tell me, am I a jerk for seeing things in this positive light?

To answer your question, no, but you calling or even implying that a member a jerk is all kinds of unacceptable. You need to be respectful towards your fellow members despite what you think of them or their opinions or anything else.

It has been noted that you have been making several posts across the boards lashing out at members either directly or indirectly as of late and this needs to stop. It's ironic seeing that you have been so adamant against the cynicism and negativity here yet you are contributing to it with these posts. Seriously, calm down and stop before you get a strike. You are getting way too wound up about a video game about a blue fictional hedgehog and be sure to express your thoughts and opinions in a respectful manner from now on.

[danidado]

While you're free to critique the direction the story and dialogue have taken, let's avoid implying that those who enjoy Lost World, Colors' or Generations' characterization have the minds of children.

 

He's not insulting anyone. He's just making an example about the type of mindset you should have (not the one you normally have) to feel even a spark of enjoyment by such barebone, childish excuses of stories.

[danidado]

Dear Dracoid.

 

As far as I remember, I never met a fan of Sonic Colors/Generation/Lost World that's also a jerk.

 

If you cared to read the post of those who defended said games, you'll see that they praise this incarnation of Sonic (and Tails in Colors) for his positive, friendly, fun-loving, light hearted attitude.

 

The teases Sonic and Tails throw at each other in Colors are not mean spirited. Sonic and Tails act like two friends who love each others company, love to make fun of themselves, love to harmlessly tease each others, love to be friends.

 

Like... for example... let's players on youtube!

 

 

 

They insults each other, yes, but this means nothing. At the end of the day, they are friends who like each others company and have fun together.

 

 

Tell me, am I a jerk for seeing things in this positive light?

 

Again, he's not insulting.

 

Stop putting words that weren't said into someone else's mouth.

 

you'll see that they praise this incarnation of Sonic (and Tails in Colors) for his positive, friendly, fun-loving, light hearted attitude.

 

If this is the case, then this is a very biased thread that doesn't accept any kind of disagreement.

 

"Positive". Where's the positivity ? If you can consider extreme down-to-earth carelessness and "I don't give a crap" behaviour a form of positivity, that's you.

 

"Fun-loving and light-hearted". Fun....Where is the fun into keep spouting tasteless, juvenile jokes ad infinitum, instead of...you know ? Taking action and shut the hell up ?

 

Again, light-heartedness isn't equal to immature, lazy carelessness.

 

 

The teases Sonic and Tails throw at each other in Colors are not mean spirited. Sonic and Tails act like two friends who love each others company, love to make fun of themselves, love to harmlessly tease each others, love to be friends.

 

That's what do you think. It seems more and more people are disagreeing to this. 

 

"They love company"....I only see themselves alone, talking only to themselves. Generations demonstrates how much they care for other "friends".

 

Sonic and Tails look like something in between a bickering old couple and a couple of vandalic punks/bullies.

 

love to harmlessly tease each others

 

Say that after watching how "harmless" they were in Lost World.

 

Again, one more question : why should I have to endure pathetic dialogues that looks like something from a lousy cheap boring sit-com, or worse, real life ?

 

And in case you haven't noticed, games are meant to avoid real life for a while, not to see the same exact boring flat daily routine of your life.

 

Sonic was meant to be about adventure and fun, not "funny" comedy and sit-com scenes. 

 

 

Tell me, am I a jerk for seeing things in this positive light?

 

No, you aren't. You're just pointing out your personal reasons as real facts. Yes, that's what many people do, but you seriously need more arguments to back up your thoughts instead of simply saying "It's good because it's light-hearted and funny and ALL real people do like this".

 

As you could see, Dracold pointed out many real facts in his argument, in order to enforce it.

 

And no, I'm not insulting anyone. I'm just trying to reason.

No, we're not going to accept disrespect and undervaluing of the opinions of other fans.  The people who are satisfied with the direction have as much right to be as those that are satisfied and deserve as much attention from Sega as those as those that don't.

 

The only reason I'm not striking you is because I honestly am hardly even sure what specifically you're trying to say and can't discern your tone with all the typos and missing words.  But as it stands, I'm just going to warn you that any further disrespect to the opinions of others will be met with a strike.

 

Nobody is insulting anybody.

 

If you people take comparisons and examples so seriously like personal attacks, then what's the point in speaking your mind about what do you like or not, without being labeled as hater ?

 

Plus, I think the people that are satisfied with the current direction have met all their demands so far :

 

Simplistic, light-hearted kiddy stories, filled with silly, juvenile humor and 4th wall breaks a go go, taking place in whimsical, silly-kiddy looking ambientations, with barely any other character in it, aside from Sonic, Tails and Eggman, and when the other appears, they're nothing more than funny yet pointless cameos with no substance whatsoever.

 

I think that there are enough people who are getting fed up of this kind of direction now.

[Tani Coyote]

Again, he's not insulting.

If you people take comparisons and examples so seriously like personal attacks, then what's the point in speaking your mind about what do you like or not, without being labeled as hater ?

Being compared to a child in terms of your ability to appreciate a work is about as flattering as being told you are like Hitler or Mao in a political discussion. Saying that someone needs to have the mind of a child to appreciate a game is inherently implies that a person is not as intelligent as everyone else.

So, let us reiterate the golden rule here. If you like the stories and characterization of Lost World, Generations, Colors... that is fine. If you don't, that is also fine. Let's just avoid stating that the opposite side must have the minds of children or some other sort of stealth insult. Saying "you need the mind of a child" to like x is no different than saying "you'd have to be stupid to like y." Just because it's not directly said to someone doesn't make it any more acceptable.

People are free to debate and disagree until the end of time here, it's just asked they remain courteous of each other no matter how intensely the topic is debated... and saying that your opponents are manchildren, or saying that SEGA should just ignore you, isn't doing that. People have different tastes. Saying a person has a childish taste implies they need to grow up out of it. Saying SEGA should just ignore them when making future games is blatantly disrespectful.

Now let's drop this subject in this thread. Requests have been issued to refrain from making derogatory comments about the opposite side, no matter how direct or indirect they are. If you want to argue that the staff interpretation of disrespect is in error here, please take it to PM. Continued public discussion will result in a strike.

[Kat]

Maybe it's just me, but when I listen to Sonic, I don't hear Sonic. I hear the writer wondering how does the world around him make sense. I hear him joking about the context of his adventure being stupid. I hear him not taking seriously anything at all, for the sake of trying to be like Sonic, since writer probably read that this was supposed to be Sonic's shtick. Sonic approaches everything and everyone with "LOL, look at you!"

[...] You hear voiceactor, sitting in a studio, looking at the scenery and thinking "Heh, that looks real funny. I should comment on it's shape, appearance or stupid behavior!"

 

I really want to take Sonic's world seriously. No matter how strange the plot or how cheesy the dialogue, the characters need to make me feel like they believe in their own universe. Considering that, it's not about "Sonic's caracter should be like he was in this or that game" anymore. All I want is those characters - based on their established roles, definitions and history - to behave believably and consistently; and that's something that doesn't work if the writers give the impression that they don't have faith in their own script.

 

Some people might be entertained by the jokes, the animation work or the banter between the characters, but the way it is executed in the recent games is far too shallow to appeal to me. In SLW, they don't bother to give us a proper setting, the villains appear with basically no backstory, Knuckles is just there for the sake of it, and Robotnik has switched from gigantic air carriers with entertainment and swimming pools to a bleak dark cargo-hold or something. Why?

There is no lore, no nothing for those characters to even base their interactions on. The characters only get each other and a few rather immediate events to interact with, and even during that, they often dismiss the bigger picture.

I don't enjoy that - no matter how many different temperaments I get to see of the characters - and I don't think it suits Sonic (as a series) in general.

 

I want the upcoming game(s) to embrace the established universe again, and to give me a proper setup - within the rules of said universe - for the events to unfold. If then the characters actually live by those rules and take their situation seriously, we might not have to debate about "ideal characterizations" anymore.