First look at Sky Sanctuary

[KrazyBean]

I still think that one 3D Section in Aquarium Park Act 6 is one of the best examples of 3D in the Unleashed style

This and Starlight Carnival (Act 5) had good 3D segments.

Edited September 14, 2011 by KrazyBean14

[Pawn]

I feel that even though I'm amazed by how wonderful SSZ looks, I kind of wonder if bits and peices of Hidden Palace will be mixed in with this. I mean, it'd kinda be good for it to, since the correlation of the Master Emerald altar and all of this, you know. Then again that would mean classic Knuckles' appearance, but he isn't going to be in this game... or is he?

I really hope Classic Knuckles makes an appearance. The whole segment including Eggman stealing the Master Emerald and Knuckles helping out is easily one of my favourite moments of all time in the series. It would seem a shame not to at least include the character in a cameo, especially since the level he leads you to is part of the line-up.

[Sami]

It'd be nice if Sonic Team did something new. I keep making the same complaints because I keep seeing the same problems. People keep telling me to wait and see, expecting the game to suddenly change its design philosophy. But no, same problems every time, so same complaints. I wait, I saw, I complained.

That's kind of what I want! I'm trying to get people to examine the game more closely, to press them into either justifying this game's design decisions or accepting that it is flawed. Unfortunately people have tended to focus more on me than the game (personally I believe this is because they can't defend the game, though I won't yet hazard a guess as to whether it's simply because they aren't good enough at debating game design or because the game isn't actually good enough).

Maybe people wouldn't be so quick to jump at you if you didn't act like you were better than them.

Seriously. This post reeks of "holier than thou" and if you don't edit it, this topic will continue to focus on you alone for the next ten pages.

[PeanutButterDimond]

It'd be nice if Sonic Team did something new. I keep making the same complaints because I keep seeing the same problems. People keep telling me to wait and see, expecting the game to suddenly change its design philosophy. But no, same problems every time, so same complaints. I wait, I saw, I complained.

Fair enough. It just all feels repetitive to me. Not just the complaints but the debates and everything. Nothing new really comes up. But yeah, I have no problem with your complaints. They're pretty reasonable complaints, though not ones I have myself. You're completely justified in stating something you don't like.

That's kind of what I want! I'm trying to get people to examine the game more closely, to press them into either justifying this game's design decisions or accepting that it is flawed. Unfortunately people have tended to focus more on me than the game (personally I believe this is because they can't defend the game, though I won't yet hazard a guess as to whether it's simply because they aren't good enough at debating game design or because the game isn't actually good enough).

Why do they have to justify it or accept that it's flawed? Can't they just like it because of what it is even if they don't know why it is the way it is? And even if it is justified, that's not going to change your own opinions. Honestly, I think people are examining the game closely but most of them just don't don't feel the same way you do. That or they don't really know what to say. I actually don't know what to say about why the game is the way it is. All I know is that, I like it.

Also, Dissident has a point. You're very blunt. You say it as if it's true and not an opinion or a matter of taste which kind of turns people off from debating with you.

Edited September 14, 2011 by PeanutButterDimond

[i don't like pie]

Maybe people wouldn't be so quick to jump at you if you didn't act like you were better than them.

Seriously. This post reeks of "holier than thou" and if you don't edit it, this topic will continue to focus on you alone for the next ten pages.

it also doesn't help that you've deemed sky sanctuary to be crap based off of a trailer that was little over a minute long dio

[turbojet]

Maybe people wouldn't be so quick to jump at you if you didn't act like you were better than them.

Seriously. This post reeks of "holier than thou" and if you don't edit it, this topic will continue to focus on you alone for the next ten pages.

Or we can just ignore him and leave him at his opinion.

I mean what is with this need to satisfy him? No reviewer will ever be as critical and as analytic as him and his opinion reeks of desiring something too acute and too insignificant from the grander scheme of things that it really doesn't matter. I mean really? Who will care if the next Sonic game sticks to a formula that works and continues to refine into something that is not what he wants? I honestly see what he wants in theory and the concept....I just think it will be fun if future modern styled games ever followed it completely to the letter.

Edited September 14, 2011 by turbojet

[Ryusuke]

Well, it certainly looks good, it sounds good. Not enough to judge on how the level will play, so...yeah, can't wait for the game so I can try it out.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Ryusuke

[Soniman]

Or we can just ignore him and leave him at his opinion.

I mean what is with this need to satisfy him? No reviewer will ever be as critical and as analytic as him and his opinion reeks of desiring something too acute and too insignificant from the grander scheme of things that it really doesn't matter. I mean really? Who will care if the next Sonic game sticks to a formula that works and continues to refine into something that is not what he wants? I honestly see what he wants in theory and the concept....I just think it will be fun if future modern styled games ever followed it completely to the letter.

I guess that signature is no longer relevant now huh?

Edited September 14, 2011 by Soniman032-

[CanofEpicSauce]

Oh well, at least there actually seems to be semi open spaces and what seems to be some alternate routes. It's step in the right direction...

[turbojet]

I guess that signature is no longer relevant now huh?

I just like it because it resembles the cynic Diogenes, the philosopher, is actually positive about something. Not the board member although it was his comment that makes it hilarious.

[Sean]

I warned you all repeatedly not to gang up on a member just because you don't like how he expresses his views. "Bluntness" isn't a good enough answer here and certainly isn't something to get worked up over for someone pointing out what he doesn't like about a video game. I don't know why you all keep doing this when we have equally-blunt-but-on-the-other-end-of-the-scale responses such as "holy shit this is awesome" or "oh my god this is what sex feels like."

I'm getting increasingly tired of repeating myself, and I may hand out strikes next time I see a topic get out of hand like this. You want to debate your views? Don't spin this into a discussion against the member him/herself.

[KHCast]

With all the excitement of this i wonder what happens if sega shows us a boss trailer at tgs. Also hopefully some kingdom valley will get mixed in or some hidden palace.

You know i just noticed this. I mean no disrespect dio but it seems when you make a comment after yours a lot more negative's or critical comments appear. whether about the "linear gameplay" or something else. I'm just saying i noticed that.And leave him alone people. You really shouldn't be attacking his view on the game just because it's different to yours. it becomes dickish really.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Hedgehogs Boost

[Indigo Rush]

That's kind of what I want! I'm trying to get people to examine the game more closely, to press them into either justifying this game's design decisions or accepting that it is flawed. Unfortunately people have tended to focus more on me than the game (personally I believe this is because they can't defend the game, though I won't yet hazard a guess as to whether it's simply because they aren't good enough at debating game design or because the game isn't actually good enough).

You know what? Screw it.

I don't see the linear paths as flaws. I admit that they're there, and I enjoy it. I happen to find that 3D platforming with Sonic is quite a bit like putting a freshwater fish in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, so these long paths giving Sonic a chance to stretch his legs out and having the boost, quickstep, spindash drift, slide, jump, homing attack and short-hop to expand on it was the best choice for translating Sonic's speedy philosophy into 3D. Having the more intricate platforming bits as parkour-style jumping and wall-jumping, pole-swinging, underwater segments and other speedy bits in 2D is also part of the design that I love. Branching paths are still there, and I think they're being handled very nicely.

I really think this is the best way to play Sonic in 3D. Sorry if you disagree, but please don't tell me I don't look deeply enough into the game to be able to comprehend why someone thinks it's bad.

I don't have to justify the game for you, I should only need to justify it for myself, and I already have.

EDIT:

I warned you all repeatedly not to gang up on a member just because you don't like how he expresses his views. "Bluntness" isn't a good enough answer here and certainly isn't something to get worked up over for someone pointing out what he doesn't like about a video game. I don't know why you all keep doing this when we have equally-blunt-but-on-the-other-end-of-the-scale responses such as "holy shit this is awesome" or "oh my god this is what sex feels like."

I'm getting increasingly tired of repeating myself, and I may hand out strikes next time I see a topic get out of hand like this. You want to debate your views? Don't spin this into a discussion against the member him/herself.

So I didn't get to see this while writing my post... fair enough, I've said my piece, so I'm done.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Gaming Misfit]

Is there a way I can make Sonic Generations my religion? I'd gladly convert.

[Diogenes]

Why do they have to justify it or accept that it's flawed? Can't they just like it because of what it is even if they don't know why it is the way it is?

Well yeah, I'm not going to bust into your house and force you to argue about video games until one of us wins. But if we're going to discuss games, y'know, put some effort into it! Just jabbering on about what we like and what we don't is boring; I want to dig deeper, get under the surface and see what makes it tick. And sometimes that means butting heads, getting people to think harder about the game.

And even if it is justified, that's not going to change your own opinions.

It almost certainly won't make me like the game, but I could come to respect it as a good game. There are plenty of games I recognize as good but don't personally enjoy.

Also, Dissident has a point. You're very blunt. You say it as if it's true and not an opinion or a matter of taste which kind of turns people off from debating with you.

I am so very sick of the "opinions" defense. I'm trying to talk about game design theory, not mere likes and dislikes. Game design may not be a science, but there are still rules and guidelines, things that work and things that don't.

it also doesn't help that you've deemed sky sanctuary to be crap based off of a trailer that was little over a minute long dio

I see no reason to assume it's any different than anything else we've seen.

[Match]

I'm excited for Speed Highway now, I hope we see some of that next conference thing.

[Soniman]

I'm excited for Speed Highway now, I hope we see some of that next conference thing.

Sorry to be a bubble burster but.....

http://www.tssznews.com/2011/09/06/no-new-sonic-generations-stages-showing-publicly-at-tgs/

[Xenos]

Okay, I'm done. :V

I don't really feel like arguing with Dio for the thousands of times I have already.

He said he dislikes the game, and he wonders why we like it so much, personally, I believe we just see the game as fun, and he sees it as something he won't enjoy or think is good.

And if that's how it's gotta be, then I guess I'm pretty okay with it. No matter how much we butt heads with him, I have to agree sometimes we can be rather rabid at attacking him in the fact that he's a skeptic. And at the end of all this, we'll enjoy the hell out of the game, and maybe he'll be surprised when we see the levels in their full extent. Because I'll go as far as to say most of the levels are non-linear and more open, but I don't know how much of that is true. And neither does Dio. We all are basing this on what we've seen.

Maybe Dio will be mostly right, maybe we'll be right and he'll like the game a lot more than before, but as of right now, we just don't know. And I'm sort of getting tired of the constant bull crap that Dio seemingly tends to trigger just for being a bit negative. He could put it a bit more lightly instead of calling out the entire game, but hey. Sugercoating everything isn't healthy.

I'm trying to get the point across is we should know that we're all assuming the stages are what they are, but I'm waiting to try my hand at it instead of waiting.

[KHCast]

I'll say this I'm disappointed by the fact that they decide to make SSZ represented by Sonic and knuckles and not Sonic 3 and knuckles. I cannot believe they completely ditched sonic 3.

On another note if this zone is linear And the classic zones are more linear than the others(looking like it right now) Then I was kinda right when i first said the classics might be harder to recreate the classics in full 3d using this gameplay compared to the 3d levels in the game since we already have them in 3d before.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Hedgehogs Boost

[Autoburstfire]

I really hope they don't do a boss trailer honestly. I'm much more preferred to the teaser footage. It shows off something to expect without completely giving away the appeal of the battle itself, especially considering Generations only has 6 bosses. Shock value is a good thing.

[Kuzu]

I really hope they don't do a boss trailer honestly. I'm much more preferred to the teaser footage. It shows off something to expect without completely giving away the appeal of the battle itself, especially considering Generations only has 6 bosses. Shock value is a good thing.

Considering they're bosses we've already fought before the shock value is already kind of gone, then again...

[Match]

Sorry to be a bubble burster but.....

http://www.tssznews....ublicly-at-tgs/

So the Sky Sanctuary trailer we just saw doesn't count..?

[Soniman]

Considering they're bosses we've already fought before the shock value is already kind of gone, then again...

Well, I imagine that great improved graphics, remixed tunes, and the possibly expanded attack moves can bring it back

So the Sky Sanctuary trailer we just saw doesn't count..?

Well, considering that TGS is tomorrow...no, dont think so.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Soniman032-

[hypermikey]

Is it wrong that every time I watch that trailer, I go tingly all over?!

[Legendary Emerald]

To be honest, I pretty much always agree with what Dio has to say. The exception being the ONE argument I had with him about level tropes and whatnot which was a silly thing in the first place. If one takes the time to actually listen to him, your realize he makes numerous good points, and thoroughly explains all of his ideas. Hell, I'd pay any price for the sort of game he describes. It really does seem like the best possible path for a future Sonic game to take.

That said, I'm excited for Generations, because I found Unleashed and Colors to be a hell of a lot of fun. They are a cheap thrill, and I won't say they are anything more than that. But sometimes that's all I want. I'm a classic gamer at heart, spending many nights with a cheap joystick in hand, playing Galaga and Ms. Pacman. When I play classic Sonic games, its true that unless I'm feeling adventurous, I take the same basic routes every play through. But, the option to explore is one I wholeheartedly support, if not for my own benefit, than for others. Just because I always allocate skill points evenly across every character stat in RPGs doesn't mean everyone else should have to.

Let me say it another way. I am a man of simple needs. I can have a wholly enjoyable time playing a simple game if I find the core gameplay and control fun. However, if you give me a game that allows more freedom, and the same gameplay and control, I will like it just the same, if not slightly more so.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Legendary Emerald