General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Conando]

I think it's more that Square-Enix is just entirely incompetent with their western ventures. It's sad, considering the stable of great western franchises that they have snapped up.

[Marcello]

Now show me a new Nintendo IP that's not a negligible bit on the side. You know, something with staying power that will really get people excited. Dillon, Pushmo and the like are all new IPs technically, but they're all so minor. When people say they want a new Nintendo IP, they mean they want something new to join Mario, Zelda, Pokémon and Metroid up in the selection of greats.

 

New IP is new IP. Let's not start pushing the goalpost.

 

Both Dillon and Pushmo have had sequels. Steel Diver is apparently getting a F2P sequel.

[Blue Blood]

New IP is new IP. Let's not start pushing the goalpost.

 

This exactly the situation where the goalpost needs pushing.

[VO.SUPER]

This exactly the situation where the goalpost needs pushing.

Then give us your definition of a new IP with staying power.

[Milo]

Then give us your definition of a new IP with staying power.

 

A minigame collection like the Wii Ser-

 

*bricked*

[SuperLink]

(Xenoblade)

 

Like I said before, Fire Emblem, Mother and Animal Crossing almost certainly didn't appear to have staying power when they were first introduced as Japan-only but they now do because they have sequels and legacy. Once Xenoblade has those things then yeah it'll be just as Nintendo as any of those three. Those three having more cartoony visuals don't make them more or less Nintendo-y than Xenoblade I think but they are undeniably Nintendo mainstay franchises.

 

I know this is just repeated points but yeah I'm certain Xenoblade meets that definition, if it doesn't now then it will years from now. I can't really think of any Nintendo IPs that were totally swept under the rug besides Geist and unfortunately perhaps Baton Kaitos.

[Scar]

New IP is new IP. Let's not start pushing the goalpost.

 

Both Dillon and Pushmo have had sequels. Steel Diver is apparently getting a F2P sequel.

 

2 of those 3 IP were met with a mixed reception. 

That and they're all 2nd party. 

 

 

Then give us your definition of a new IP with staying power.

 

One that is backed by Nintendo's considerable development muscle. In other words, a new IP made by their first party studios, rather than second or third party. One that has the budget, scale and marketing of  a Mario or Zelda game.

 

(And one that isn't forgotten for years)

[VO.SUPER]

One that is backed by Nintendo's considerable development muscle. In other words, a new IP made by their first party studios, rather than second or third party. One that has the budget, scale and marketing of a Mario or Zelda game.

(And one that isn't forgotten for years)

You mean big budgeted like the highly successful animal crossing? Whoops.

Or forgotten like Kid Icarus and Chibi Robo? Now did I just say that out loud?

[SuperLink]

2 of those 3 IP were met with a mixed reception. 

That and they're all 2nd party. 

Kirby's 2nd party and Pokémon may as well be, I don't think anyone doubts how "big Nintendo IP" they are.

 

Also it's kinda unrealistic to expect Nintendo to give a new game the financial force of Mario or Zelda, gaming megabombs, that's financially dumb.

 

I'm sure the new IP we get will be interesting though, and not like Geist or something.

[VO.SUPER]

Kirby's 2nd party and Pokémon may as well be, I don't think anyone doubts how "big Nintendo IP" they are.

Also it's kinda unrealistic to expect Nintendo to give a new game the financial force of Mario or Zelda, gaming megabombs, that's financially dumb.

I'm sure the new IP we get will be interesting though, and not like Geist or something.

Kirby's second party? That's news to me. I know Hal made him, but I thought Hal was owned lock, stock, and barrel by Nintendo.

[SuperLink]

Kirby's second party? That's news to me. I know Hal made him, but I thought Hal was owned lock, stock, and barrel by Nintendo.

I don't know if they always were. Second party is a really vague-ass term anyway, but there are many second party projects which are now 100% associated with Nintendo.

[Kaabiitorori]

Why games like Pushmo/Pullblox or Dillon's for example (which are eShop titles, BTW) need to have big budgets behind anyway?

 

As SuperLink said as well, some IPs may not be widespread success at first, but that doesn't mean they won't be in later installments. I said this a few pages ago, but you don't need to be the next Mario, Zelda or Pokémon to hit success, regardless of being a new or an existing IP: as long as you meet a certain degree of success in those franchises, it'll be alright to carry on.

 

Kirby's second party? That's news to me. I know Hal made him, but I thought Hal was owned lock, stock, and barrel by Nintendo.

 

Technically is second-party, but HAL Laboratory has been mainly attached to Nintendo after Kirby's Dream Land success in 1992.

 

Let's not forget Satoru Iwata was first a developer and then CEO of HAL Labs. The company has had quite a long history during Yamauchi's era, let alone the fact the ex-CEO of Nintendo was quite fond of HAL Labs and Satoru Iwata.

 

Not a surprise why Iwata was appointed CEO of Nintendo when you think about it.

[VO.SUPER]

It's as I said. Nintendo doesn't have be making new IP all the time, but investing more time in advertising the group as a whole. A big family of sorts, just for the sake of giving their lesser known titles the attention. Smash worked somewhat in reminding us who the Ice Climbers, Mr Game and Watch, and Pit were.

But the problem with Smash is all the meticulous balancing that is involved with these games.

[SuperLink]

Kid Icarus would have sold far better if it came out during a time where the 3DS' sales weren't shit. It seriously needs a digital re-release because it's super worth the attention.

[Blue Blood]

Kid Icarus would have sold far better if it came out during a time where the 3DS' sales weren't shit. It seriously needs a digital re-release because it's super worth the attention.

 

Unless you're left handed. Playing that was is a nightmare for me.

[SuperLink]

If you have a circle pad pro it adds left-handed mode, but I can understand why you wouldn't and it was a pretty enormous oversight that I can't really defend.

[Blue Blood]

While I kind of doubt it would be a killer app, KI on the Wii U would be fantastic considering it's essentially a large DS with a CPP built in.

[Endy]

Kid Icarus HD would be the best thing ever, especially with proper camera control.

[azoo]

I'm hearing all this talk about Xenoblade being a Nintendo IP now. 

 

Wasn't there a "Xeno-" series made by the same company on many other consoles before Nintendo? Or has something happened recently like Nintendo purchasing the company and/or franchise or whatever?

[Marcello]

As far as I know Monolith are the people who did the Xeno games and now belong to Nintendo. I don't think previously released Xeno games do, though.

[azoo]

So does it really mean it's a Nintendo IP, then? Or is Xenoblade seperate from Xenogears and whatever else?

[\Lennox]

So does it really mean it's a Nintendo IP, then? Or is Xenoblade seperate from Xenogears and whatever else?

 

Yes and no.

 

Xenoblade is created by a development studio owned by Nintendo, making it a Nintendo IP. 

Xenosaga, as Monolith Soft was under Namco at the time of development, became a Namco Bandai IP.

Xenogears, due to the fact that Monolith Soft didn't break off from Square at the time of development, is now a Square Enix IP.

 

However, due to their thematic links and reuse of symbols and character archetypes, they're considered to be a part of a fluidly connected franchise that may just be Takahashi's repretoire and sequence of spiritual successor after spiritual successor. Personally, I extend it to include Soma Bringer and Sands of Destruction. Nonetheless, there is neither any legal nor financial connection holding them together.

 

The whole majority stake thing really matters folks, it's confusing. D8

[SuperLink]

Xenoblade is a sequel to Xenosaga in name only, it was originally called "Monado" but the title was changed to Xenoblade because the creator wanted to reference Monolith's legacy of the Xenosaga series.

 

Namco own Xenosaga and will likely just sit on it now that Nintendo own Monolith, there is a chance that Nintendo and Namco could collaborate on a new Xenosaga in the future or something but Xenoblade is a wholly Nintendo-owned IP with no real relation to Xenosaga or other previous Xeno games besides the name.

 

EDIT: Interesting thing: http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=219837

 

Basically Nintendo has renewed the Eternal Darkness trademark too many times without actually using it, they need to do something with the trademark within 36 months or they lose it. Personally thinking they're more likely to give it up than use it but you never know.

[Sami]

Xenoblade is to Xenosaga as Dark Souls is to Demon's Souls. Same team, same broad ideas, different franchises legally. Sony owns the Demon's Souls IP, so technically Dark Souls is not Demon's Souls 2, even though it totally is.

As far as the "but Pushmo!" argument goes... all I have to say is this -

Pushmo and Steel Diver are not at all what people are asking for, and everyone knows this. Why do we always have to play semantics when both sides know very clearly what the other is asking for? Kid Icarus is the only example I can think of that's a good showcase for what people are asking for, and even that's not a new IP.

Just this year Sony published The Last of Us. It had a ton of hype trailing it's release, got a bunch of marketing, was shown off as one of the PS3's biggest upcoming games, and was given as big a budget in development as Sony's other AAA franchises.

That's what people want. Stop bending the words and arguing over nothing.

[Autosaver]

Xenoblade is to Xenosaga as Dark Souls is to Demon's Souls. Same team, same broad ideas, different franchises legally. Sony owns the Demon's Souls IP, so technically Dark Souls is not Demon's Souls 2, even though it totally is.

Xenoblade is not really a sequel as it's totally unrelated to the other Xeno games unlike Dark Souls which is pretty much Demon Souls.

 

As far as the new IP discussion goes, I honestly don't know what to think of it. I'd rather revive older franchises that haven't had a game in over a decade.