General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[SuperLink]

Xenoblade is to Xenosaga as Dark Souls is to Demon's Souls. Same team, same broad ideas, different franchises legally. Sony owns the Demon's Souls IP, so technically Dark Souls is not Demon's Souls 2, even though it totally is.

Xenoblade and Xenosaga are completely different in terms of plot and gameplay, they don't even have similar artstyles as Xenosaga is far more anime-inspired than Xenoblade. There's literally no similarity besides dev team and name.

 

If the game was called Monado as it originally was people would have no qualms calling it a new IP (because it is a new IP). I understand why people don't see the importance in Pushmo and Steel Diver but I think acting like Xenoblade isn't an important new franchise is kinda picking at straws.

 

And I know it's not much given it's one of the only new Nintendo IPs worthy of note of the last half a decade but it's.. still a new Nintendo IP. Xenoblade arguably had more money into it than most Mario games even if the marketing push was nothing in comparison, but considering how much Nintendo like to talk about X it's not too weird to believe X will have a much bigger push in comparison.

[Dejimon11]

What about the wonderful 101? A new IP from Nintendo created by platinum games? People wanted something new but didn't buy it

[SuperLink]

What about the wonderful 101? A new IP from Nintendo created by platinum games? People wanted something new but didn't buy it

I guess people don't really consider that a Nintendo IP either because Platinum created it, but yeah that is also a new Nintendo IP.

 

I can see that people want a new 1st party IP, but my argument is that people shouldn't underestimate the importance of 2nd party IP like Kirby, Pokémon and Fire Emblem.

[Marcello]

As far as the "but Pushmo!" argument goes... all I have to say is this -

Pushmo and Steel Diver are not at all what people are asking for, and everyone knows this. Why do we always have to play semantics when both sides know very clearly what the other is asking for? Kid Icarus is the only example I can think of that's a good showcase for what people are asking for, and even that's not a new IP.

Just this year Sony published The Last of Us. It had a ton of hype trailing it's release, got a bunch of marketing, was shown off as one of the PS3's biggest upcoming games, and was given as big a budget in development as Sony's other AAA franchises.

That's what people want. Stop bending the words and arguing over nothing.

Because it's a load of crap. Not all IPs are the same. It doesn't matter whether or not it has a huge budget or not. Saying Nintendo never does new IPs is false.

 

The only people bending words are the ones saying stuff like Pushmo and Steel Diver don't count.

[YoshiUnity]

 

 

EDIT: Interesting thing: http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=219837

 

Basically Nintendo has renewed the Eternal Darkness trademark too many times without actually using it, they need to do something with the trademark within 36 months or they lose it. Personally thinking they're more likely to give it up than use it but you never know.

 

The only thing that sucks about this is that all they have to do is make something as simple as a trophy in Smash Bros WiiU/3DS or some Club Nintendo gift and they'll be able to keep it. So there's not much rush, really.

 

Would like a new game though! Hell, I'll even take it as HD re-release at this point... I really want more Eternal Darkness...

[Wraith]

Wonderful 101 was pushed as hard as any new Nintendo game and that was ignored anyway. They've been actually doing a half decent job of coming out with newer stuff and pushing their lesser known franchises(Yes, they have lesser Franchises besides F Zero and Star Fox. ). They just need to keep pushing.

[Kaabiitorori]

Pushmo and Steel Diver are not at all what people are asking for, and everyone knows this. Why do we always have to play semantics when both sides know very clearly what the other is asking for? Kid Icarus is the only example I can think of that's a good showcase for what people are asking for, and even that's not a new IP.

Just this year Sony published The Last of Us. It had a ton of hype trailing it's release, got a bunch of marketing, was shown off as one of the PS3's biggest upcoming games, and was given as big a budget in development as Sony's other AAA franchises.

That's what people want. Stop bending the words and arguing over nothing.

 

So from that logic, people didn't ask for Puppeteer, Tearaway, or Gravity Rush to name a few recent Sony IPs. People may not even ask for PaRappa The Rapper if the rumours appointing for a revival on PS4 & Vita are true. Because they don't have the same budget or market presence as The Last of Us or any other AAA title. Therefore, we have to scrap 'em off. So what is the point of bringing any non-AAA franchise then?

 

The video game market is massive and there will always be different people and tastes to cater. That's why creating and establishing a diverse range of IPs is for: to give variety to consumers while further establishing your brand identity. Regardless of how much budget and/or promotion they get.

 

Not everything has to be AAA-big budget in order to succeed, Discoid. If the Go Big or Go Home mentality is the best solution for the video game market, lemme tell you: it's unsustainable as hell. Many western and eastern companies are aboard in that bandwagon, and if they don't watch out, they will crash and burn.

[Sami]

Xenoblade and Xenosaga are completely different in terms of plot and gameplay, they don't even have similar artstyles as Xenosaga is far more anime-inspired than Xenoblade. There's literally no similarity besides dev team and name.

If the game was called Monado as it originally was people would have no qualms calling it a new IP (because it is a new IP). I understand why people don't see the importance in Pushmo and Steel Diver but I think acting like Xenoblade isn't an important new franchise is kinda picking at straws.

And I know it's not much given it's one of the only new Nintendo IPs worthy of note of the last half a decade but it's.. still a new Nintendo IP. Xenoblade arguably had more money into it than most Mario games even if the marketing push was nothing in comparison, but considering how much Nintendo like to talk about X it's not too weird to believe X will have a much bigger push in comparison.

Fair point with Xenoblade. I forgot about that one.

Regardless, I'm just saying that the semantics game is pointless when we all know what people actually want. I don't care to join this particular discussion beyond that.

So from that logic, people didn't ask for Puppeteer, Tearaway, or Gravity Rush to name a few recent Sony IPs. People may not even ask for PaRappa The Rapper if the rumours appointing for a revival on PS4 & Vita are true. Because they don't have the same budget or market presence as The Last of Us or any other AAA title. Therefore, we have to scrap 'em off. So what is the point of bringing any non-AAA franchise then?

The video game market is massive and there will always be different people and tastes to cater. That's why creating and establishing a diverse range of IPs is for: to give variety to consumers while further establishing your brand identity. Regardless of how much budget and/or promotion they get.

Not everything has to be AAA-big budget in order to succeed, Discoid. If the Go Big or Go Home mentality is the best solution for the video game market, lemme tell you: it's unsustainable as hell. Many western and eastern companies are aboard in that bandwagon, and if they don't watch out, they will crash and burn.

Duh.

Where did you get the idea that non-AAA shouldn't exist? Nobody is saying that. I loved Tearaway and Gravity Rush, and I'm sure Pushmo is a fun little game as well. Those games have nothing to do with this discussion at all. People are asking for a big new IP of Mario or Zelda's calibre. Pushmo is not that, just as Tearaway is not the new Uncharted.

It's good to have both. Xenoblade would be a fantastic example if not for the complete lack of marketing and near impossibility to obtain the game legally these days.

[Conando]

2 of those 3 IP were met with a mixed reception. 

That and they're all 2nd party. 

 

 

 

One that is backed by Nintendo's considerable development muscle. In other words, a new IP made by their first party studios, rather than second or third party. One that has the budget, scale and marketing of  a Mario or Zelda game.

 

(And one that isn't forgotten for years)

 

Pushmo/Crashmo is not second party, just pointing that out. Intelligent Systems is an internal development team. Dillon is the only second party game.

[Wraith]

X seems to be trying to fix the massive fuckup that was Xenoblade's release so you can't say they're not trying with this one either. I do feel that Nintendo is pushing to make X and by extension Xenoblade one of their new bigs.

 

I mean, I get that they fuck up a lot, but let's cut them SOME slack, yeah?

[Sami]

X seems to be trying to fix the massive fuckup that was Xenoblade's release so you can't say they're not trying with this one either. I do feel that Nintendo is pushing to make X and by extension Xenoblade one of their new bigs.

I mean, I get that they fuck up a lot, but let's cut them SOME slack, yeah?

It's good enough for me, yeah. I really liked Xenoblade and X is the game that'll finally push me to get a Wii U.

[Conando]

Wonderful 101 was pushed as hard as any new Nintendo game and that was ignored anyway. They've been actually doing a half decent job of coming out with newer stuff and pushing their lesser known franchises(Yes, they have lesser Franchises besides F Zero and Star Fox. ). They just need to keep pushing.

 

That's the real crime here. It's going to be incredibly hard to put out anything that will get the same numbers as Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon. We've already seen it.

[Wraith]

Pokemon and Mario are only as successful as they are because of special circumstances anyway. Any new IP they put out would have a hard time emulating that. It'd have to be bigger than even something like The Last of Us.

[Dejimon11]

I think that the last of us success had to do with the fact that it was made by naughty dog(and because it was following a popular trend that didn't seem like a cash in)

[SuperLink]

yeah last of us' success is really mindblowing and probably due to Uncharted. For a new Nintendo franchise to be anywhere near that successful it needs to have tons of hype trailers, new ideas, and boast things like "FROM LEGENDARY CREATOR SHIGERU MIYAMOTO" and stuff.

[Wraith]

Unharted is pretty much the main reason anyone gave a fuck about TLOU, yeah, but Nintendo could pull the same thing, considering they have well known franchises as well..

[Dejimon11]

Or they can do what made kid Icarus uprising sell like hotcakes.

[Wraith]

Kid Icarus Uprising could have sold way better if it was released a little later.

 

Fire Emblem Awakening is a better example. 

[Conando]

That brings up Bravely Default (US release) for me. I've seen people wondering why Nintendo of America is releasing it later. Look at what happened with Awakening.

[Dejimon11]

How well did uprising sell? I imagined with 3D Land and MK7 increasing sales of the system it came out at the best time possible not to mention there wasn't any new during the beginning of 2012

[Conando]

Around 1.1 Mil apparently. It's not Mario or Zelda levels, but it was considered a success. For the record, Awakening sold around 1.17 mil.

[Kaabiitorori]

Duh.

Where did you get the idea that non-AAA shouldn't exist? Nobody is saying that. I loved Tearaway and Gravity Rush, and I'm sure Pushmo is a fun little game as well. Those games have nothing to do with this discussion at all. People are asking for a big new IP of Mario or Zelda's calibre. Pushmo is not that, just as Tearaway is not the new Uncharted.

It's good to have both. Xenoblade would be a fantastic example if not for the complete lack of marketing and near impossibility to obtain the game legally these days.

 

I mentioned those games as examples of non-AAA Sony IPs in comparison of The Last of Us. Much like I'd have mentioned other non-AAA Nintendo IPs in comparison of, say, Mario or Zelda.

 

My point is you cannot say games like Pushmo/Pullblox or Steel Diver aren't what people are asking for because there will always be people who will actually ask for these games. That's why I explained the reason why non-AAA should exist, because there will always be people interested in different franchises, different genres, different stuff, while giving the market some diversity amongst the many blockbuster titles.

 

Of course games like Pushmo/Pullblox won't be the next Mario, but neglecting these games just either because they are not big-budgeted or just because it's not what they are asking for isn't precisely a good statement. I do want Nintendo to come up with a big IP, sure thing, but the non-AAA will always be there for everyone else too.

 

(Since the conversation has been moved on, I'd not carry on with this unless someone wants to point something out).

[Mr Loopone]

Who knows? The Wii U is not equally as powerful as the One/PS4, but still I am sure it would manage to run the game. It's too soon to argue about how the Wii U is actually capable to do tech-wise since I haven't heard of any game (first or third-party) that hasn't fully utilised its hardware, with most games using just one of the three cores of its CPU.

 

The point is Square-Enix could possibly have secured a missing part of the audience who didn't enjoy the game on the 360/PS3 if they did release the game on the Wii U, pretty much what Deus Ex did.

 

I am still tempted on picking Deus Ex on the Wii U though, now that it's relatively cheap to pick up. Thoughts anyone?

 

Thought that I mention this since luckily I do have the game on the Wii U (Deus Ex: Human Revolution: DC). While it is hard so far for me to get into the game but not enough to regret the purchase like some games in the past. Anyway, the graphics are pretty good and apparently are better than the original version of the game (probably not as good as the PC version but that applies for many multiplatform games). Gameplay is nice with responsive controls and runs pretty smoothly (haven't encountered any slowdown from playing up to Mission 1). Apparently the original version had some awful boss fights and this version fixes them to make it possible for the stealth option but haven't got that far or played the original version plus it might be more balanced? The Wii U Gamepad has some good functions and if it wasn't for the fact that the game came out on other systems in the past, you would have thought that it was designed for the Wii U. Not only that it has a map but you can access other things such as your gadgets/weapons/logs, hacking plus there are a couple of neat things that the GamePad shows. Oh and off TV play is supported. Plus it has extra features such as a guide to help you and director's commentary that you can find in the game.

 

Compared to the other versions (original not DC) where it is possible to get really cheaply as in a few quid, I felt this game and Splinter Cell: Blacklist felt right on the Wii U due to both using gadgets and weapons. Wonder how a James Bond game would be like on the console...

[SuperLink]

For some reason, Wii U is trending on Twitter right now. Absolutely no reason for it as well, always a good sign.

[Kaabiitorori]

Thought that I mention this since luckily I do have the game on the Wii U (Deus Ex: Human Revolution: DC). While it is hard so far for me to get into the game but not enough to regret the purchase like some games in the past. Anyway, the graphics are pretty good and apparently are better than the original version of the game (probably not as good as the PC version but that applies for many multiplatform games). Gameplay is nice with responsive controls and runs pretty smoothly (haven't encountered any slowdown from playing up to Mission 1). Apparently the original version had some awful boss fights and this version fixes them to make it possible for the stealth option but haven't got that far or played the original version plus it might be more balanced? The Wii U Gamepad has some good functions and if it wasn't for the fact that the game came out on other systems in the past, you would have thought that it was designed for the Wii U. Not only that it has a map but you can access other things such as your gadgets/weapons/logs, hacking plus there are a couple of neat things that the GamePad shows. Oh and off TV play is supported. Plus it has extra features such as a guide to help you and director's commentary that you can find in the game.

 

Compared to the other versions (original not DC) where it is possible to get really cheaply as in a few quid, I felt this game and Splinter Cell: Blacklist felt right on the Wii U due to both using gadgets and weapons. Wonder how a James Bond game would be like on the console...

 

Ah I see. When I am looking at Wii U versions of third-party/multiplatform games, performance and Gamepad integration are two main aspects I tend to look at the most. Good to hear the Wii U version of Deus Ex is pretty good on these two aspects, from what you are commenting. I'd have liked to pick this game on PC, but my computer is quite far behind on performance (which I hope I can upgrade it throughout 2014).

 

Anyway, considering what you have posted and the fact that the Wii U version is currently £15 on Amazon, I may end up grabbing a copy. Thank you for the comment! =)