General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[Red Cap]

Adding a new power-up doesn't make a brand new game. Imagine if Sega just said "Fuck it, lets just add a new wisp that lets Sonic fly, make some generic Sonic-like levels, touch up the graphics, and call it Sonic Colors U while charging people $50." Now imagine Nintendo doing this and using it as the signature title of the Wii U and now you have NSMBU.

Dude... really? NSMBU not only added Baby Yoshi's that have their own special power, they also added Boost Rush and Challenge Mode into the game. Even minor things like the Boost Blocks add quite a lot to the game.

And "generic Sonic-like levels"...? What does that even mean?

[Chaos Warp]

 

 

 

 

 

Why is this good enough for DK and Rayman but not Mario.  Why is the fact that Mario has more games cause for disrespect for that the fact that they still come up with awesome new level designs.

Because Mario is the cream of the crop. He's Mr. Video Gaming. His 3d games have always been groundbreaking up until now. Super Mario 64 basically taught us how to do 3d platforming, and Super Mario Galaxy pretty much reinvented the wheel and provided us with an epic sense of scale and atmosphere never before seen in a Mario game, or in a platformer really. Sunshine is not as groundbreaking but it introduced something that really changed up the gameplay: FLUDD. 3d Land and World are just......well designed 3d Mario games? Which isn't bad, but it is a step down for 3d Mario. 

Edited August 30, 2013 by Chaos Warp

[Solkia]

I don't get how people can consider the raccoon suit new when it's essentially a nerfed version of a power up we had in 1991.

 

But yeah, I don't think there's a point to complaining about... a platformer being a platformer.

[RK64]

Fair enough, just to respond to the rest, since I still disagree:

 

This is the thing, why is it such a bad thing that a new Mario game is a new Mario game?

 

What does Rayman Legends do?  Not much, it just has more of the awesome gameplay we've come to love with great new level design.

 

And since you mentioned later on, what does Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze do?  Not much, it just has more of the awesome gameplay we've come to love with great new level design.

 

 

 

 

Why is this good enough for DK and Rayman but not Mario.  Why is the fact that Mario has more games cause for disrespect for that the fact that they still come up with awesome new level designs.

 

The issue is that 3d World doesn't look that impressive. Both Rayman and DK were dormant series for quite sometime (it was 5 years after Rayman 3 came out till Origins came out and there hasn't been a DKC tittle for half a decade until Retro made DKC Returns) and had great come backs, with there sequels taking the ideas there prequels had and making them better, like how Galaxy 2 took Galaxy 1 and was an amazing game.

 

3d World can do that exact thing as 3d Land was (from what people have said) a great game and having more graphical power, co-op, and new power-ups could do a lot to make a great sequel, but the Wii U doesn't have "its" Mario game yet; NSMBU and 3D World are sequels to previous series, not made for the ground up original games that really push the Wii U to its limits, and quite frankly, the Wii U NEEDS to have that Mario game. The Wii got Galaxy a year after the system came out and it has been three years since Galaxy 2 (which was developed by the same them making 3d World and 3d Land) come out, more than enough time for a ground braking Mario to land on Wii U.

 

And like others have said, Mario is the face of platforming. You have iconic and legendary figures like Crash, Rayman, Sonic, Spyro, Klona, Ty, Tomba and practily EVERY platforming icon since the NES launched all follow the base Mario generated for them; you run and jump, you get power-ups, and you kill enemies. Sure, that's kind of generalizing things a bit and not all platformers follow the Mario series base (Sonic Unleashed and Mario Galaxy are VERY different games for example) but you get my point . So having 3d Mario play it safe and not innovate much when the competition is doing exactly that (with some from Nintendo themselves), that's a bit worrying. 3d World is going to be a great game, it just isn't the huge Mario game we all want, and that is disappointing.

[Sega DogTagz]

I dont have much experience with digital, but at the same time its not a horrible thing. I'm a video game collector. I build up a physical library for my shelves. I have every game since I was five still here and lots of consoles as well. I would rather get the games for the consoles they are meant for rather than download them, even if it costs a bit more. I've got the collector gene, both parents have collector genes as well.

 

I've only downloaded like maybe two or three games before and only because I had to and I didn't really want to do so. Like when it comes to TellTale games. I waited for the physical disks of waalking dead and back to the future first. I dont buy too many brand new $50 or $60 games either. I look for bargins where I can end up getting like two or three games for like $25 or $30 and such. This is just who I am, so its always been which is worth it. I know space is important, but how important and is it worth it in the long run and all that.

 

The Long Run is where it will hurt.

 

To be honest, I have always been the same way. I greatly prefer to own physical copies of my games, even if I have to spend a little bit more to make it happen.

 

But the digital data demands have their way of racking up over a couple of years. There are the games that don't have a physical releases (Think Sonic 4), Demo's of games that you'd like to try, Classic's and re-makes which are hard and or expensive to collect physically and then to top it all off you still need space available to have your system operate at its proper pace. 

 

I'm pretty sure the WiiU has external storage options, so you're not doomed right off the bat if you start pushing up against the limit. Even the high end 32 gig model isn't very large, but I just couldn't recommend the 8 gig-er unless you already had a good compatible data sink in your possession and ready to go.

[Chooch]

If the sole reason for my distaste in Super Mario 3D World was simply it's a new Mario game then I never would have mentioned that I enjoyed Super Mario Galaxy 2.

 

My issue is that 3D World feels redundant when you've already got the New Super Mario Bros. series for that sort of four player co-op madness. It's not the console 3D Mario game that I wanted on the Wii U. It feels like an extension of the New Super Mario Bros. series.

 

This post was way longer, but I lost the drive to continue this discussion further. Carry on.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Chooch

[Sami]

Fair enough, just to respond to the rest, since I still disagree:

 

This is the thing, why is it such a bad thing that a new Mario game is a new Mario game?

 

What does Rayman Legends do?  Not much, it just has more of the awesome gameplay we've come to love with great new level design.

 

And since you mentioned later on, what does Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze do?  Not much, it just has more of the awesome gameplay we've come to love with great new level design.

 

 

 

 

Why is this good enough for DK and Rayman but not Mario.  Why is the fact that Mario has more games cause for disrespect for that the fact that they still come up with awesome new level designs.

 

Because there are different expectations for Mario. As Nepenthe said above, the place in the industry and cultural impact Mario has in comparison to Rayman isn't even remotely similar. Mario is literally the face of the single biggest video game company in the world. His games are representative not only of the Mario franchise, but of Nintendo as a whole and the system the game is built for. 

 

The year is 1996 - Nintendo has just released the Nintendo 64. What can it do, and why would you want one? Look at Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. These two games are the face of the N64, and these are the two games that are essential must-haves for the system. 

 

Fast forward to 2007 - The Wii has rapidly become a worldwide phenomenon, and the non-gaming market has made sales explode. Hardcore gamers, however, feel all but abandoned. What's a reason for someone like you or I to get a Wii as soon as possible? Super Mario Galaxy. Again, representative of the magic Nintendo can work and what the Wii is really capable of as a platform for "real games".

 

Now? We have "another Mario game". Fun? Yeah. Impressive? Not really. 

 

Nobody had these expectations for Galaxy 2, the NSMB series, or 3D Land, because those were different affairs entirely. Mario doesn't need to reinvent the wheel every game at all - but yes, something does need to really impress every half decade at least. 

 

Look at it this way - 

 

• 1996 - Super Mario 64
• 2002 (six years later) - Super Mario Sunshine, a fresh new take on the formula with plenty of new features and a new design philosophy behind it.
• 2007 (five years later) - Super Mario Galaxy - ... Nothing needs to be said here. I'll be honest and say I never had too much fun with Galaxy, because I simply don't enjoy Mario much, but to write Galaxy off as anything less than a masterpiece of video games is asinine. Galaxy is Galaxy.
• 2013 (six years later) - "Just another Mario game".

See the problem?

[Jet Prower]

The Long Run is where it will hurt.

 

To be honest, I have always been the same way. I greatly prefer to own physical copies of my games, even if I have to spend a little bit more to make it happen.

 

But the digital data demands have their way of racking up over a couple of years. There are the games that don't have a physical releases (Think Sonic 4), Demo's of games that you'd like to try, Classic's and re-makes which are hard and or expensive to collect physically and then to top it all off you still need space available to have your system operate at its proper pace. 

 

I'm pretty sure the WiiU has external storage options, so you're not doomed right off the bat if you start pushing up against the limit. Even the high end 32 gig model isn't very large, but I just couldn't recommend the 8 gig-er unless you already had a good compatible data sink in your possession and ready to go.

 

I still dont have episode 2 because of it being download only. Usually if a game is too expensive for me, I pass on it for now instead of downloading it. I can wait until another time. I do have patience. I also never play demos either. I've just never been into that kind of stuff. I would likely still get the premium just because of the space more likely, but at the same time, as I mentioned, I wont be downloading games if I can help it.

 

My internet has a download limit on it as well from the company, so downloading games normally isn't an option for me as well. Its so lowthat its rediculous and even then, the only unlimited time is super late at night. I know my newer xbox that has the smaller memory is a bit annoying on it definately. That's why I figured getting the premium just for a small memory upgrade just in case. I dont plan on downloading stuff. I buy alot of previous gen games anyway. People will be playing Xboxone, PS4 and WiiU for a long time and I'll still be buying lots of stuff from last gen because of how much cheaper it will be then.

 

That's just me, I love and look for the deal =P

[Kuzu]

Oh you mean dazzlingly inventive and endlessly fun?

Yeah that's gonna suck..

...Notice how I never said it was going to suck.

[Solkia]

 

 

Look at it this way - 

 

• 1996 - Super Mario 64
• 2002 (six years later) - Super Mario Sunshine, a fresh new take on the formula with plenty of new features and a new design philosophy behind it.
• 2007 (five years later) - Super Mario Galaxy - ... Nothing needs to be said here. I'll be honest and say I never had too much fun with Galaxy, because I simply don't enjoy Mario much, but to write Galaxy off as anything less than a masterpiece of video games is asinine. Galaxy is Galaxy.
• 2013 (six years later) - "Just another Mario game".

See the problem?

 

Yeah, taking Super Mario 64 and removing everything that made it good was why the Gamecube was such a hit

 

gomen

[JezMM]

The issue is that 3d World doesn't look that impressive. Both Rayman and DK were dormant series for quite sometime (it was 5 years after Rayman 3 came out till Origins came out and there hasn't been a DKC tittle for half a decade until Retro made DKC Returns) and had great come backs, with there sequels taking the ideas there prequels had and making them better, like how Galaxy 2 took Galaxy 1 and was an amazing game.

 

3d World can do that exact thing as 3d Land was (from what people have said) a great game and having more graphical power, co-op, and new power-ups could do a lot to make a great sequel, but the Wii U doesn't have "its" Mario game yet; NSMBU and 3D World are sequels to previous series, not made for the ground up original games that really push the Wii U to its limits, and quite frankly, the Wii U NEEDS to have that Mario game. The Wii got Galaxy a year after the system came out and it has been three years since Galaxy 2 (which was developed by the same them making 3d World and 3d Land) come out, more than enough time for a ground braking Mario to land on Wii U.

 

And like others have said, Mario is the face of platforming. You have iconic and legendary figures like Crash, Rayman, Sonic, Spyro, Klona, Ty, Tomba and practily EVERY platforming icon since the NES launched all follow the base Mario generated for them; you run and jump, you get power-ups, and you kill enemies. Sure, that's kind of generalizing things a bit and not all platformers follow the Mario series base (Sonic Unleashed and Mario Galaxy are VERY different games for example) but you get my point . So having 3d Mario play it safe and not innovate much when the competition is doing exactly that (with some from Nintendo themselves), that's a bit worrying. 3d World is going to be a great game, it just isn't the huge Mario game we all want, and that is disappointing.

 

"The issue is that 3d World doesn't look that impressive. Both Rayman and DK were dormant series for quite sometime (it was 5 years after Rayman 3 came out till Origins came out and there hasn't been a DKC tittle for half a decade until Retro made DKC Returns) and had great come backs"

 

Exactly, they were sitting dormant while more active franchises advanced little by little with each new game, so the differences between them are way more noticable.  And yet, who'd have thought, now they have a new game soon after the last one, they're super similar to the previous one.

 

3d World can do that exact thing as 3d Land was (from what people have said) a great game and having more graphical power, co-op, and new power-ups could do a lot to make a great sequel, but the Wii U doesn't have "its" Mario game yet; NSMBU and 3D World are sequels to previous series, not made for the ground up original games that really push the Wii U to its limits, and quite frankly, the Wii U NEEDS to have that Mario game. The Wii got Galaxy a year after the system came out and it has been three years since Galaxy 2 (which was developed by the same them making 3d World and 3d Land) come out, more than enough time for a ground braking Mario to land on Wii U.

 

I just don't see any reason to tack on gimmicks where they aren't necessary.  Too much touch screen control would ruin the Mario gameplay, and... well this is just my opinion, but if you need busy detailed HD visuals to enjoy Mario to the fullest you're probably in the wrong series.  For all its wonder, Galaxy was no more or less minimalistic than 3D Land and World, they can't send Mario into space a third time just for the sake of having a ton of impossibly large vistas in the background of the geometry.  We can't put cannons on every single level just so Mario will fly around some scripted sequences again.

 

And like others have said, Mario is the face of platforming. You have iconic and legendary figures like Crash, Rayman, Sonic, Spyro, Klona, Ty, Tomba and practily EVERY platforming icon since the NES launched all follow the base Mario generated for them; you run and jump, you get power-ups, and you kill enemies. Sure, that's kind of generalizing things a bit and not all platformers follow the Mario series base (Sonic Unleashed and Mario Galaxy are VERY different games for example) but you get my point . So having 3d Mario play it safe and not innovate much when the competition is doing exactly that (with some from Nintendo themselves), that's a bit worrying. 3d World is going to be a great game, it just isn't the huge Mario game we all want, and that is disappointing.

 

To me, 3D Land was the distillation of everything the Mario team had learned about good level design from both the 2D and 3D titles.  I would more than welcome a couple more games of that before they try to shake up the formula again.  Galaxy 3 would be too much space, and Sunshine's gimmicks really trod on the traditional Mario platforming too often, becoming more of a general action/adventure game as oppose to tight platformer.  Even the general engine was not that compatible with the precision-based secret courses.

 

If the sole reason for my distaste in Super Mario 3D World was simply it's a new Mario game then I never would have mentioned that I enjoyed Super Mario Galaxy 2.

 

My issue is that 3D World feels redundant when you've already got the New Super Mario Bros. series for that sort of four player co-op madness. It's not the console 3D Mario game that I wanted on the Wii U. It feels like an extension of the New Super Mario Bros. series.

 

This post was way longer, but I lost the drive to continue this discussion further. Carry on.

 

To say 3D World's co-op is redundant because of NSMB is ridiculous.  A 3D play space completely changes EVERYTHING about how a game plays.

 

Because there are different expectations for Mario. As Nepenthe said above, the place in the industry and cultural impact Mario has in comparison to Rayman isn't even remotely similar. Mario is literally the face of the single biggest video game company in the world. His games are representative not only of the Mario franchise, but of Nintendo as a whole and the system the game is built for. 

 

The year is 1996 - Nintendo has just released the Nintendo 64. What can it do, and why would you want one? Look at Super Mario 64 and Zelda: Ocarina of Time. These two games are the face of the N64, and these are the two games that are essential must-haves for the system. 

 

Fast forward to 2007 - The Wii has rapidly become a worldwide phenomenon, and the non-gaming market has made sales explode. Hardcore gamers, however, feel all but abandoned. What's a reason for someone like you or I to get a Wii as soon as possible? Super Mario Galaxy. Again, representative of the magic Nintendo can work and what the Wii is really capable of as a platform for "real games".

 

Now? We have "another Mario game". Fun? Yeah. Impressive? Not really. 

 

Nobody had these expectations for Galaxy 2, the NSMB series, or 3D Land, because those were different affairs entirely. Mario doesn't need to reinvent the wheel every game at all - but yes, something does need to really impress every half decade at least. 

 

Look at it this way - 

 

• 1996 - Super Mario 64
• 2002 (six years later) - Super Mario Sunshine, a fresh new take on the formula with plenty of new features and a new design philosophy behind it.
• 2007 (five years later) - Super Mario Galaxy - ... Nothing needs to be said here. I'll be honest and say I never had too much fun with Galaxy, because I simply don't enjoy Mario much, but to write Galaxy off as anything less than a masterpiece of video games is asinine. Galaxy is Galaxy.
• 2013 (six years later) - "Just another Mario game".

See the problem?

 

This is the thing.  Everyone seems to see Mario 64, Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy and 3D Land as separate entities that did new things.

 

I see it as a chain of progress, constantly in pursuit of perfecting 3D Mario gameplay.  Mario 64 had no idea what it was doing, but made a great game regardless.  Mario Sunshine said "hey, we can't just do Mario 64 again, so added the water gun gameplay.  They decided "is openly exploring a level really what Mario is about?" so they made the courses linear missions in the open play space.  They decided "was precision controlling Mario in 3D really as easy as it could be?" so added the hover ability to ease precision jumping.  Of course, I think Sunshine was a mess of well-intentioned ideas implemented badly, mainly due to too much of the game throwing away they "play whatever levels you like" that 64 had.  No point adding a hover nozzle to simplify platforming if you're gonna take it away for some mandatory levels.

 

Then Galaxy tried to combat the difficulty of finding your way round 3D spaces by adding the planetoid gravity play, where you could always see all directions of travel.  They did away with open levels entirely to focus on linearity with a little scope to experiment, which Mario has always had.

 

3D Land basically repeated Galaxy but took out the fluff, focusing on a pure experience.  Clearly, Nintendo decided "this is it, this is 3D Mario, we've reached it - for now at least", and decided there was more to be done with this gameplay, just like they did at one point on the Wii when they decided to make Galaxy 2.

 

 

Now, all these changes can be seen as bad or good, I'm not arguing that.  I'm just saying... if they do think they've reached something close to perfection with how 3D Mario should play... why is making more of the same, just this once, a disappointment?  If they make 3D World 2, I'll completely understand these complaints about lack of something totally new Mario-wise on the Wii U.

 

But right now I just don't see anything wrong here at all.  I see nothing to be disappointed over.  But that's just me.  I don't understand but if you want to be disappointed I'll leave you to it.

 

Saying this isn't really a "main Mario game" though is just utter double-standards if you were okay with Galaxy 2, I don't care if it's on a new console this time, that means nothing.

 

 

 

It just disheartens me that so few people here seem to be able to really appreciate how unique Mario is as a series to keep producing brand new level designs and indivudal level gimmicks that rarely infringe on the basic run and jump platforming with every single game.

 

When people say "3D World just looks like more "Mario level designs" it is as disrespectful to the level and powerup design this series has as if someone was to place you in front of a table full of the national dishes of every single country in the world, someone asked you to describe what was on the table, and your response was "food".

Edited August 30, 2013 by JezMM

[Scar]

As far as I'm concerned, the thing that Super Mario 3D world lacks, is the charm and wow-factor that Galaxy had.

There's nothing there so far, that amazed me like Galaxy did. 

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

Here is my thought: What if they are being secretive on 3D world because for the first time in a main title they plan to do a comprehensive story? with true twists? and a villian alongside bowser(like say wart)? because it could be they have awesome stuff they are hiding Because they want you to enjoy the experience yourself and be surprised

[Autosaver]

As far as I'm concerned, the thing that Super Mario 3D world lacks, is the charm and wow-factor that Galaxy had.

There's nothing there so far, that amazed me like Galaxy did. 

And we judged that from a trailer of the first level.

 

Ok then.

[Chronozoah]

Note how he said nothing there so far, thus implying he is open to the possibility of being proven wrong. Besides, the very point of trailers is to build hype and evoke reactions, and a trailer which falls short (not saying that it applies in this case) will reflect badly on perceptions of the resultant product, until proven otherwise. This is inevitable.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Heinous Creature

[Kuzu]

And we judged that from a trailer of the first level.

Ok then.

And the first level if Galaxy established it was going to be a grand game.

3D land's first level is mostly...."it's Mario.....yay"

[Chili Dawg]

3D Land is basically a smaller Galaxy but not in space.

 

3D World is a bigger 3D Land.

 

Ergo 3D World is Galaxy not in space.

 

Ergo it will ought to be really dern good even if not as epic and magical.

[JezMM]

As far as I'm concerned, the thing that Super Mario 3D world lacks, is the charm and wow-factor that Galaxy had.

There's nothing there so far, that amazed me like Galaxy did.

 

But what can they do?  The space stuff was purely aesthetics.  There's some truth to Yahtzee's comments in his Zero Punctuation review of Galaxy when he said going into space is dangerous because "where do you go from there?  Super Mario Universe?"  Mario had to come back down to the Mushroom Kingdom sometime.  It doesn't mean we can't have some super pretty art design.

 

I can agree with the value of drawing the player's attention to them though.  If I'm completely honest, while I go on all day about how 3D Land had a ton of cool background scenery if you actually look at it, the game DOES never really give you a chance to take it in if you're focusing on the relentless gameplay in the foreground.

 

 

 

I'm all but certain that we'll get a grand, live sounding soundtrack again though, they've hinted tons at it.  I mean 3D Land was pretty live sounding anyway, even though I think it WAS synthesised.  But yeah.  Orchestra will be unfitting, but I get the feeling we'll hopefully be seeing more of the like from Throwback Galaxy and Puzzle Plank Galaxy.  Big Band music and Pop music with an oomph.

Edited August 30, 2013 by JezMM

[Sami]

Saying this isn't really a "main Mario game" though is just utter double-standards if you were okay with Galaxy 2, I don't care if it's on a new console this time, that means nothing.

 

But that's the thing - it does. It means a lot, actually. It's been over half a decade since Mario Galaxy. I was in middle school at that time. Now I'm in college. Video games have changed and evolved over that time, and the new consoles are capable of new things. Look at the launch games on the PS4, for instance - what does the PS4 do that the PS3 can't? New social features, sharing, and advanced particle physics. So what are we getting?

 

Knack, a game that has some of the most impressive and advanced particle physics ever implemented into the basic core of the gameplay, with all of the different tiny objects around the level flying into Knack to make him grow in size and increase in strength.

 

#Drive_Club, a game that absolutely thrives on its connectivity and social integration. You make a "club" with your friends, race other clubs, compete with and against each other, and so forth. 

 

Killzone: Shadowfall. Much of the focus here is on the online multiplayer and how the PS4's OS compliments it. Look at the demonstration at Gamescom, for instance. What do they show off? Shuhei Yoshida browses the PS4 OS for a bit, and goes into the multiplayer menu. From there, he sees that his friends are in the middle of a Killzone match. He clicks the join button, and in seven seconds (I counted) he's spawned in the game and moving about. This whole process of turning the system on and entering your friend's game takes literally less than a minute. Finally, he hits the share button and instantly sends a tweet live during the show. 

 

My point is not that Nintendo should have implemented these features or have handled their conferences in the same way. The important thing here is that, other than Nintendo Land, no major Nintendo game has shown us what the Wii U is really capable of and what differentiate it from the Wii or even the Gamecube. The N64 had 3D graphics, and Mario 64 showed that off. The Gamecube was capable of better water effects, and Mario Sunshine used that as the core backbone of the gameplay (much like Knack, with its new particle physics). The Wii had a new controller and slightly more advanced hardware power than the Gamecube, and so Mario Galaxy took advantage of those. The star bits were implemented into the gameplay for the Wii Remote to have a function in the game and several levels took advantage of the motion controls. Beyond that, the game was visually stunning and showed that the Wii was most definitely capable of graphics beyond that of the Gamecube, and took advantage of high production values to deliver a visual flair and musical score unlike anything we'd ever seen before.

 

Mario 3D World does not do this. It could have used its multiplayer focus to implement online play and deep Miiverse integration, but it didn't. It could have flexed the Wii U's muscles pulling off a game that the Wii was completely incapable of, but it didn't (yes, it is in HD, but the game would still very much be possible on the Wii or even the Gamecube had the textures and polygon-count been simplified - the worlds aren't particularly big in a way that more RAM is needed, and impressive physics or other miscellaneous effects aren't really here). It could have used the Gamepad in new and creative ways to really show that this game is only possible on the Wii U, but because it is also playable on a Wii Remote, it lacks this as well.

 

Super Mario 3D World doesn't show me why the Gamepad is a great new feature or why it's better than any other controller gameplay-wise. Ubisoft is doing a better job of this than Nintendo, ironically enough. 3D World doesn't show me the crazy new things Nintendo can do with this new $300 machine. 

 

Rather, it is a run of the mill Mario game with nothing truly remarkable to make it stand proud above its predecessors, or even at their level. A very solid and very fun game, but ultimately one that does not impress in a way that is not possible on the Wii or 3DS. 

 

That means something. It means a lot.

[JezMM]

To be honest, I'm having the most fun with Rayman when I'm not doing the Gamepad stuff.  The Gamepad stuff is... okay.  But the fact is it only complements the main game as a multiplayer option.  Playing the Murfy levels single player just isn't as fun as the regular gameplay.

 

The Wiimote play in Galaxy felt perfect for two reasons.

 

Firstly, the motion control fit in naturally.  The fact that you never had to do it continuously went hand in hand with motion controls, and the action of spinning itself added a dimension to precision platforming way WAY more elegantly than the Hover Nozzle in Sunshine did.  It aided platforming without simplifying it.

 

Secondly, the pointer controls worked naturally because everything they do happens on the same screen as Mario, and they are a tertiary action that doesn't require you to move your hands away from the action inputs OR the movement input.

 

 

 

The Gamepad just will not fit into Mario in the same way.  You have to look down at the screen to use it, and you have to either stop moving or stop jumping/running to use it.  There is no way it would do anything other than intervene with traditional Mario gameplay.  In a game like Mario, it can only work as an input for a second player (which as we've already seen in the trailer, has been integrated in a way similar to Rayman Legends and NSMBU).

 

 

You can praise Rayman Legends all you like but you are not playing a platformer when you take control of Murfy in Single Player on Rayman.  The computer controlled second player that they were forced to put in because Gamepad gameplay does not work with Platformers in Single Player; that computer player is playing a platformer.  You are playing a point and click action game.  Murfy gameplay is fun, but something has gone wrong there in terms of making a platformer.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also comparisons to Knack are irrelevant.  Knack is a brand new property and has no expectations to fulfill.  (I uhh... also saw zero platforming in the announcement trailer and thus lost interest).

Edited August 30, 2013 by JezMM

[super saiyan weegee]

In a game like Mario, it can only work as an input for a second player (which as we've already seen in the trailer, has been integrated in a way similar to Rayman Legends and NSMBU).

Just want to zoom in on this part and say real quick that anyone using the Gamepad can use the "reveal" feature, and still actually play as a normal character.

 

Sorry this doesn't really add anything to the discussion, but I just wanted to say.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Haden

[JezMM]

Just want to zoom in on this part and say real quick that anyone using the Gamepad can use the "reveal" feature, and still actually play as a normal character.

 

Just wanted to say.

 

That's fair enough, but you have to stop to do it.  Incomparable to the sublime Wiimote integration in Galaxy.

[Sami]

To be honest, I'm having the most fun with Rayman when I'm not doing the Gamepad stuff.  The Gamepad stuff is... okay.  But the fact is it only complements the main game as a multiplayer option.  Playing the Murfy levels single player just isn't as fun as the regular gameplay.

 

The Wiimote play in Galaxy felt perfect for two reasons.

 

Firstly, the motion control fit in naturally.  The fact that you never had to do it continuously went hand in hand with motion controls, and the action of spinning itself added a dimension to precision platforming way WAY more elegantly than the Hover Nozzle in Sunshine did.  It aided platforming without simplifying it.

 

Secondly, the pointer controls worked naturally because everything they do happens on the same screen as Mario, and they are a tertiary action that doesn't require you to move your hands away from the action inputs OR the movement input.

 

 

 

The Gamepad just will not fit into Mario in the same way.  You have to look down at the screen to use it, and you have to either stop moving or stop jumping/running to use it.  There is no way it would do anything other than intervene with traditional Mario gameplay.  In a game like Mario, it can only work as an input for a second player (which as we've already seen in the trailer, has been integrated in a way similar to Rayman Legends and NSMBU).

 

 

You can praise Rayman Legends all you like but you are not playing a platformer when you take control of Murfy in Single Player on Rayman.  The computer controlled second player that they were forced to put in because Gamepad gameplay does not work with Platformers in Single Player; that computer player is playing a platformer.  You are playing a point and click action game.  Murfy gameplay is fun, but something has gone wrong there in terms of making a platformer.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also comparisons to Knack are irrelevant.  Knack is a brand new property and has no expectations to fulfill.  (I uhh... also saw zero platforming in the announcement trailer and thus lost interest).

 

Then maybe Nintendo should have thought of that before banking on a controller that doesn't properly complement their biggest flagship franchise - if the face of their entire company can't demonstrate why their new gimmick is worth it, then the Wii U has a serious problem on its hands.

 

This is the situation they're in now.

 

This isn't the time to see what would have worked in the past and simply touch up the old experiences - this is the time to reinvent the wheel in a way that does compliment the Gamepad. If it's a challenge to make it work, then that's a challenge Nintendo has to take. EAD is comprised of some of the most brilliant, creative people in this industry. If they can't find a way to really make this new system special... then what was the point of all these new features?

 

If the game that is the virtual face of your company can't demonstrate why your new product is unique and special, then that's a very extreme problem.

 

So what should they do? Keep Mario the same to keep things from changing too much? Or really put their minds to work to make it work in a way that shows off the benefits of the Wii U and why it's a great console?

 

 

Edit - Lol, forgot to reply to your edit. The fact that Knack is a new IP is completely irrelevant. If the premiere, flagship platformer that shows off what the Wii U can do has to be a new IP... then why on earth did they not develop one? Nintendo is the king of platforms, are they not? Is it not at all ironic that their new controller and new online community add no benefit whatsoever to their flagship platformers?

Edited August 30, 2013 by Discoid

[Autosaver]

if the face of their entire company can't demonstrate why their new gimmick is worth it,

[Sami]

 

I don't buy consoles for minigame collections.