General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[SuperLink]

3D multiplayer platformer, eh?

 

Not really the same, platformers have had 2-player competitive multiplayer modes since forever, even Mario 64 DS had a 4-player one.

 

In Mario 3D World, it's 4 player throughout the entirety of the normally 1-player main game.

 

Also I heard that Rachet game wasn't all that fantastic, it's still a very much unexplored genre possibility.

Edited August 30, 2013 by SuperLink

[Chooch]

All 4 One wasn't fantastic but it wasn't terrible by any means. I was actually going to bring it up eventually but someone beat me to the punch. The game had online and precedes 3D World by a number of years so it's not like 3D World is the freshest idea that has been brought to the table.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Chooch

[Indigo Rush]

I think the distinction that needs to be made is that while a full fledged multiplayer 3D platforming adventure isn't breaking new ground, it is however something new for Mario. I don't know much about M64DS, but I'm not sure that this is the same situation. 

 

SM3DW isn't a technological marvel, but it is 4-player 3D Mario in 1080p. It's kind of hard to complain about that. As someone who's voiced my preference for another Galaxy/64-esque adventure, I think a lot of the criticism this game is getting is a tad overblown.

 

Just a teensy bit.

[SkyLlama]

I walked into Wal-Mart today looking for a Nexus 7 and saw they had one basic WiiU left. 250$+Tax+Ewaste Fees+Extended Warranty.

 

I couldn't bite the bullet and get the deluxe no matter how good of a deal it is, this was cheaper by like 100$ after tax and fees which is too much not to think about.

 

The controller is amazing. Unlike what I had ever imagined. The touch screen is very, very responsive unlike I'd expected and the whole package feels very nice.

 

Either way I'm happy, even if it maybe was a foolish buy. I expect friend codes from some of you.

 

Edited August 30, 2013 by SkyLlama

[RisingForever]

I think the distinction that needs to be made is that while a full fledged multiplayer 3D platforming adventure isn't breaking new ground, it is however something new for Mario. I don't know much about M64DS, but I'm not sure that this is the same situation. 

 

SM3DW isn't a technological marvel, but it is 4-player 3D Mario in 1080p. It's kind of hard to complain about that. As someone who's voiced my preference for another Galaxy/64-esque adventure, I think a lot of the criticism this game is getting is a tad overblown.

 

Just a teensy bit.

 

The problem is 3D World is supposed to be the biggest game for the Wii U this holiday season. WWHD is a 10 year old game with some minor improvements. DKC:TF could be but Nintendo doesn't think so by shoving its release date into December. Sonic Lost World is probably the only game that is getting the same treatment as 3D World, with a good release date in late October and some advertisement from Sega. Wii Party U and Wii Fit U are both games that need to show that they are different enough form the original games on the Wii. Everything else is too niche or coming on other consoles.

 

The biggest game on the Wii U this year is the biggest game for the Wii U last year in 3D.

[Autosaver]

Mario 3D World is a 'bootleg Rayman'? Who the hell comes up with these things?!

Speaking of Rayman...

 

Exclusive to Wii U in Japan.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

I walked into Wal-Mart today looking for a Nexus 7 and saw they had one basic WiiU left. 250$+Tax+Ewaste Fees+Extended Warranty.

 

I couldn't bite the bullet and get the deluxe no matter how good of a deal it is, this was cheaper by like 100$ after tax and fees which is too much not to think about.

 

The controller is amazing. Unlike what I had ever imagined. The touch screen is very, very responsive unlike I'd expected and the whole package feels very nice.

 

Either way I'm happy, even if it maybe was a foolish buy. I expect friend codes from some of you.

 

actualy, its not horrible, it was your choice, and if thats what you wanted its fine, however you may want to eventualy get an external harddrive if you plan to do any downloadable games

[Jet Prower]

When it comes to the WiiU, if you are not planning on doing downloadable games at all and only physical games, is the premium version even worth it to someone like me? I've been curious about this.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

When it comes to the WiiU, if you are not planning on doing downloadable games at all and only physical games, is the premium version even worth it to someone like me? I've been curious about this.

well, premium is getting a fifty dollar price drop, and the basic is getting phased out, so really only reason to get it is if you dont want nintendoland(or one of the other bundled games coming up), and a white console. So truth is you might be able to get a really good deal with the upcoming sales on the permium, but hey truly its your choice

[Sega DogTagz]

When it comes to the WiiU, if you are not planning on doing downloadable games at all and only physical games, is the premium version even worth it to someone like me? I've been curious about this.

 

How much experience do you have with the digital side of gaming? were you an early adopter of the 360 or PS3?

 

I only ask because I went into the last gen thinking the same thing. I don't store music or photos on the system, and didn't have the faintest interest in downloading stuff to my Hard-Drive back when I got my 80 Gig PS3. That space gets eaten up fast when you consider all the save data, Demo's, DLC and other goodies that come attached to the digital realm.

 

I'd recommend the higher capacity machine to everyone. Either that or your gonna be looking for external data sinks in a few years... which isn't a bad thing so much as its inconvenient...

Edited August 30, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[SilentDoom]

Yeah the main thing that bothers me about 3D World is the fact that it feels like that we know nothing more about the game since E3, despite the fact that it's supposed to be the next big 3D Mario game.  Heck even the Gamescom demo was the same as the E3 one and we've seen no additional footage and barely any screenshots showing off new worlds, level gimmicks, the like.  In addition, it doesn't look like it has that scene of scale that the Galaxy games had.  It seems more like you'll just be progressing through a series of levels rather than going on an adventure.  That's part of what gave 3D Mario games their appeal in the first place.  The sense of adventure!

 

Mind you though, I'm still very much looking forward to 3D World.  It looks absolutely stunning and I've been wanting co-op and multiple playable characters with their own distinct traits in a new 3D Mario for ages and I'm very much looking forward to seeing what kind of inventive level design they come up with.

[Sami]

Honestly, I don't think NSMW's problems reside in the marketing alone; it's just not that impressive of a game. It's not breaking new ground in a way that really catches people's attention and dazzles everyone watching, like 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy did before it. 

 

Mario 64 was one of the most revolutionary games of all time and brought stellar platforming to the third dimension for the first time. Mario Sunshine was a visually impressive open world platformer with a completely new and unique gimmick to keep the gameplay fresh. Mario Galaxy was absolutely dazzling, had an amazing musical score, and reinvented the wheel yet again with a fresh and unique spin on the formula that is instantly attention-grabbing and interesting to boot.

 

Mario 3D Land, if not for the multiplayer aspects, for all intents and purposes is "just another Mario game". That's what it looks like, and that's what they're marketing it as. No new and interesting world to explore, no fresh new take on the series, or anything like that. Visuals like 3D Land, music like 3D Land, and level design that feels like an evolution of 3D Land. It's more of a "Super Mario ____ 2" than a "Super Mario _____", or "the next big 3D Mario". Does that mean it'll be a bad game? No. But will it make heads roll from sheer amazement? Absolutely not, and that much is already very clear.

 

I think it's more a result of "SHIT WE NEED A NEW MARIO" than "alright guys, let's make magic".

[Carbo]

Super Mario 3D Land was a bite-sized version of Super Mario Galaxy so to say that anything has changed in any way that's bad is disingenuous.

The funny thing is these same kind of complaints were heard ad nauseam when 3D Land was first revealed, and even Galaxy to an extent.

[SkyLlama]

actualy, its not horrible, it was your choice, and if thats what you wanted its fine, however you may want to eventualy get an external harddrive if you plan to do any downloadable games

 

The plan was to always get an external HD no matter what. In my mind 32 and 8 GB are almost equally bad so that was never a factor. I've got an external HD already so no issues

[JezMM]

I believe 3D Land will be a good title, it just...doesn't have anything we haven't already seen; Co-op was done in NSMB and the level design looks like typical Mario fare. I guess I'm glad they made Peach playable, but really that shouldn't have even been an issue in the first place.

 

Oh you mean dazzlingly inventive and endlessly fun?

 

Yeah that's gonna suck.

 

 

 

 

Also wtf at that Rayman Legends comparison on the last page.  Sure the game's pretty as hell but from what I've played so far it's just as much a "mission pack sequel" as the NSMB games have been (note: not a bad thing).

Edited August 30, 2013 by JezMM

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Also wtf at that Rayman Legends comparison on the last page.  Sure the game's pretty as hell but from what I've played so far it's just as much a "mission pack sequel" as the NSMB games have been (note: not a bad thing).

 

...N-no, not really. Whereas Rayman Legends introduces things like game-changing game mechanics, a new artstyle, and introduces a new and interesting theme to the Rayman series, NSMB provides players with the same exact experience as previous Super Mario titles, but this time with a more different Raccoon suit!

Edited August 30, 2013 by Sixth-Rate Soma

[RK64]

...N-no, not really. Whereas Rayman Legends introduces things like game-changing game mechanics, a new artstyle, and introduces a new and interesting theme to the Rayman series, NSMB provides players with the same exact experience as previous Super Mario titles, but this time with a more different Raccoon suit!

 

That's the thing with the NSMB series though; they don't innovate much at all, just offer a tight, polished experience. Sure, they may have a new power-up here or a really cool level there (the Starry Night NSMBU level looked quite interesting ) but they are more or less simple platformers that just happen to be really polished, have "fun" co-op, and some fun levels to jump though.

 

That's not a bad thing at all with the 3d Mario's always being the Mario series that really pushes things to the next level as 64, Sunshine and the Galaxy games prove, but with 3d World, all that's there appears to be is a supped up 3d Land sequel that expands things with a new power up and multiplayer co-op. As Galaxy 2 proved, building off a great game could do wonders into taking things to a whole other level, but it just doesn't look that way with 3d World (Nintendo has shown little to nothing new about the game since e3....).

 

I whole hearted agree with you about the Rayman games though; Origins and (what looks to be) Legends mix things up with new stuff consistently, all while having beautiful art, tight controls and really fun platforming .

[Nepenthe]

It's difficult to compare the two series on account of they are not equivalent in terms of their presence in the industry and impact on popular culture. Different expectations of both is going to induce unique biases that will affect opinions on their output. It is much easier for Rayman to get away with not completely innovating or being the next big thing, because he never really was; Mario does not have that same luxury simply on account of having numerous games that have set industry standards, hence why people are calling 3D World a comparative disappointment. It also doesn't help that it a noticeable contingent of people have been sour on that line of games' gameplay on their own standards anyway, while there seems to be no real beef with Rayman's gameplay. For me personally, never will I forget the ruinous experience I had with the original NSMB's co-op. Seriously, it's annoying to play. :\

[Red Cap]

Whereas Rayman Legends introduces things like game-changing game mechanics

Where? Because outside of Murphy, there isn't a "game-changing gameplay mechanic".

NSMB provides players with the same exact experience as previous Super Mario titles, but this time with a more different Raccoon suit!

The first NSMB didn't even have a flight-based power-up, and the Propeller Suit and Flying Squirrel suit function way different than the Tanooki suit does.

[Jet Prower]

How much experience do you have with the digital side of gaming? were you an early adopter of the 360 or PS3?

 

I only ask because I went into the last gen thinking the same thing. I don't store music or photos on the system, and didn't have the faintest interest in downloading stuff to my Hard-Drive back when I got my 80 Gig PS3. That space gets eaten up fast when you consider all the save data, Demo's, DLC and other goodies that come attached to the digital realm.

 

I'd recommend the higher capacity machine to everyone. Either that or your gonna be looking for external data sinks in a few years... which isn't a bad thing so much as its inconvenient...

 

I dont have much experience with digital, but at the same time its not a horrible thing. I'm a video game collector. I build up a physical library for my shelves. I have every game since I was five still here and lots of consoles as well. I would rather get the games for the consoles they are meant for rather than download them, even if it costs a bit more. I've got the collector gene, both parents have collector genes as well.

 

I've only downloaded like maybe two or three games before and only because I had to and I didn't really want to do so. Like when it comes to TellTale games. I waited for the physical disks of waalking dead and back to the future first. I dont buy too many brand new $50 or $60 games either. I look for bargins where I can end up getting like two or three games for like $25 or $30 and such. This is just who I am, so its always been which is worth it. I know space is important, but how important and is it worth it in the long run and all that.

[RisingForever]

The first NSMB didn't even have a flight-based power-up, and the Propeller Suit and Flying Squirrel suit function way different than the Tanooki suit does.

 

Adding a new power-up doesn't make a brand new game. Imagine if Sega just said "Fuck it, lets just add a new wisp that lets Sonic fly, make some generic Sonic-like levels, touch up the graphics, and call it Sonic Colors U while charging people $50." Now imagine Nintendo doing this and using it as the signature title of the Wii U and now you have NSMBU.

[RK64]

It's difficult to compare the two series on account of they are not equivalent in terms of their presence in the industry and impact on popular culture. Different expectations of both is going to induce unique biases that will affect opinions on their output. It is much easier for Rayman to get away with not completely innovating or being the next big thing, because he never really was; Mario does not have that same luxury simply on account of having numerous games that have set industry standards, hence why people are calling 3D World a comparative disappointment. It also doesn't help that it a noticeable contingent of people have been sour on that line of games' gameplay on their own standards anyway, while there seems to be no real beef with Rayman's gameplay. For me personally, never will I forget the ruinous experience I had with the original NSMB's co-op. Seriously, it's annoying to play. :\

 

Well, the Rayman series while not on the same level of success as the Mario series, have had quite the re-birth since the series ended after Rayman 3 (I don't count the Rabids games even if they were quite fun ) and with Legends getting almost perfect scores across the board, I can only see the series getting better (with the new Next gen hardware allowing Ubisoft to generate quite the amazing 3d Rayman; dat UbiArt engine plus 3d cell shading would be jaw dropping ). I'm sure Nintendo has the Galaxy 1 team working on the next ground braking 3d Mario and 3d World just there to be the stop gap to hold people over (as is Wind Waker HD), but 2d Mario has been lacking for some time even if NSMBWii and NSMBU being solid games, so its hard to be impressed with Nintendo following the same formula for those games with the 3d Mario's with 3d World when 3d Mario is supposed to set the world on fire like 64 and Galaxy.

 

I'm sure its going to be a great game though .

[JezMM]

Adding a new power-up doesn't make a brand new game. Imagine if Sega just said "Fuck it, lets just add a new wisp that lets Sonic fly, make some generic Sonic-like levels, touch up the graphics, and call it Sonic Colors U while charging people $50." Now imagine Nintendo doing this and using it as the signature title of the Wii U and now you have NSMBU.

 

Who wants a "brand new" Mario game?  How much are they supposed to completely change the formula to please you people?

 

The new powerups in each new game always offer new gameplay possibilities in terms of navigating the terrian, this is what Mario has always been about and they still haven't run out of ideas.  There is NO Mario powerup that does not create new level design opportunities that would have been possible with previous powerups.  This is on top of the unique level gimmicks they come up with independently of powerups every game.

 

I really don't want to have to list them all unless necessary so think about every single powerup and just try and give me one this rule doesn't apply to and I will gladly prove you wrong.  The only one I can think of is the Shell Suit from NSMB.  The Penguin Suit basically had the same capabilities but without bouncing off the blocks you break (which is a mechanic that was almost never utilised meaningfully in NSMB1's level design, especially since the Shell Suit was so rare).

Edited August 30, 2013 by JezMM

[Chooch]

Seems like people are so entirely focused on one sentence in that entire post I made that they're more than willing to ignore everything else that I said. It's kind of frustrating.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Chooch

[JezMM]

Seems like people are so entirely focused on one sentence in that entire post I made that they're more than willing to ignore everything else that I said. It's kind of frustrating.

Fair enough, just to respond to the rest, since I still disagree:

 

What is the point in a new trailer for a game that has an experience that can be easily summarized in a single trailer? It's a four player co-op 3D Mario. That's.. it really.

 

Super Mario 3D World isn't the huge HD Mario title that most people have been waiting for. Feels more like a bootleg Rayman Legends than anything else. Maybe I'd have a reason to give a shit if the game had online play but Nintendo insists on being laughably incompetent in regards to multiplayer functionality.

This is the thing, why is it such a bad thing that a new Mario game is a new Mario game?

 

What does Rayman Legends do?  Not much, it just has more of the awesome gameplay we've come to love with great new level design.

 

And since you mentioned later on, what does Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze do?  Not much, it just has more of the awesome gameplay we've come to love with great new level design.

 

 

 

 

Why is this good enough for DK and Rayman but not Mario.  Why is the fact that Mario has more games cause for disrespect for that the fact that they still come up with awesome new level designs.