New interview video: Iizuka

[Voyant]

Easier said than done mate.

Now why don't we wait until we see some more footage and gameplay.

Naw man...we don't need that shit...we got enough with alpha build gameplay to completely make rational decision on whether this game is bad or not. Sadly Sonic Generations will not receive my rings money.

[Rusty Spy]

Easier said than done mate.

I've yet to hear a sufficient explanation as to why this is the case.

Sonic Team's interpretation of Sonic is clear. We know what to expect.

[Diogenes]

*dust off hands* Well...guess what that's what we are VAGUELY gonna get in the game since judging the game by its alpha is pretty much all the evidence we need to call it crap.

Hey guys...I just peered 7 months in the future and found out that that the game is shit despite it being based on very successful and positive acclaimed styles....we can all be sad and move on with out lives...lets hope we get a decent game in the 30th anniversary.

Yeah I'm totally rendering absolute judgment on the game, it's not like I've said several times "I'll believe it when I see it". I guess I'll go join the nearest circlejerk, since it's too early to have negative opinions.

[sonfan1984]

If Unleashed gameplay is so great why did so many people beg and plead and whine until they got classic Sonic back?

I thought a lot of people wanted Classic Sonic back for Sonic 4.

[Scar]

Yeah I'm totally rendering absolute judgment on the game, it's not like I've said several times "I'll believe it when I see it". I guess I'll go join the nearest circlejerk, since it's too early to have negative opinions.

Its too early to have any feelings. Doesn't stop people from having them.

Like I said, we should wait for more to see what's what.

[thatguyfrom03]

Wait, so we're panicky if Sega are, yet again, not living up to the success of what previous games have done, and going back into a regression where the gameplay slowly gets shallower and shallower until we hit rock bottom and they make the Sonic 06 of Unleas-OH CHRIST!

*facepalm*

The original issue was: "This one level was more linear than the levels in Unleashed."

It has now dissolved into(as usual): "Fuck Unleashed style altogether! They should of done Genesis element A,B,C(rinse repeat same arguments since 2008)"

The second argument has been played out as all shit. Unleashed style is part of Generations. Deal with it. The issue at hand is that Sega makes modifications to make it a more enjoyable experience. What I'm saying is that odds are if its using the Unleashed style of gameplay, it will at bare minimum have the depth of later Unleashed levels. I'm saying its not wise to get all bi-polar at each new video and abandon ship, when this is all we've seen. If you never liked Unleashed style in the first place, you're probably not going to like this segment of Generations.

[Diogenes]

It has now dissolved into(as usual): "Fuck Unleashed style altogether! They should of done Genesis element A,B,C(rinse repeat same arguments since 2008)"

If that's what you think I've been saying, then either I've been terribly unclear, or you haven't been paying attention.

[Voyant]

Yeah I'm totally rendering absolute judgment on the game, it's not like I've said several times "I'll believe it when I see it". I guess I'll go join the nearest circlejerk, since it's too early to have negative opinions.

Being a little negative is fine...hell I'M a little negative as well, but from your perspective to me its like you bestowing final judgement. This "believe it when I see it" thing can only go so far in a sense of logic. Considering past patterns, shown footage, and other things people have been trying to say, you are not GETTING the hint.

I want an evolution on Unleashed too, but judging that evolution from 1 level from an alpha build is fucking ridiculous. Already some people are pointing out minor possible positive changes changes to Sonic's control and hell look at the removal of QTEs. I'm much more on your side than you think I am...but I not being irrational about it.

Which is why people are getting defensive.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Voyant

[Core]

To people saying that we shouldn't have an opinion until we see more of this game... Yeah, I understand where you're coming from, but... SEGA gave us that trailer. This is what they want us to know about the game. We have every right to judge it.

Sonic Team has made the first level that way, and as far as I can tell it looks like a regression. You can say later levels will be better, but that doesn't excuse the first level being so empty. You can say it will be improved, but then they shouldn't release a trailer showing such an unfinished level.

By the way, when was it ever said that it is an alpha version?

And I don't see why people criticizing what they see are being irrational. People are not saying "this game sucks", they're just saying that it doesn't look promising.

Yet when people say "this is the best game ever" upon seeing Classic Sonic's inclusion, nobody call them irrational.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Core

[Scar]

I've yet to hear a sufficient explanation as to why this is the case.

Well firstly you have to consider that Classic Sonic's physics whilst fun are wrong. Rolling up and down a half-pipe does not allow you to gain height. That much is basic physics: KE(max) = GPE(max), thus 1/2mv²=mgh.

Secondly, tight controls don't mix with good physics. The faster you are going, the more inertia you have. The more inertia you have the more difficult it becomes to change direction. This is one of many complaints about Unleashed. People keep complaining about Sonic having a 2-mile wide turning circle in Unleashed, but that's only because the physics actually work. That's why they created the quick-step and drift.

People would then say, "Well why don't you slow him down to SA levels of speed", well, because in Sonic Unleashed, if you don't boost, the top speed, is actually pretty close to SA1's top speed, but in Unleashed when you turn, you arc from side to side. In SA1, you twitch from side to side, completely disregarding inertia. The same is true in SA2.

Now you could say that the inertia there should be sacrificed for the sake of control, but then you also lose jumping inertia, ramp inertia and so on.

Also, another thing, rolling physics become severely fucked in 3D, because you are at the mercy of the terrain, because good physics would mean that you have extremely stiff controls whilst rolling. That does not make for good gameplay.

Another thing, having wide open spaces in 3D means that you essentially have wide open space completely devoid of level design, because its really fucking hard to make good level design and intersting, but playable terrain in 3D. Most of SM64 had levels with large empty feilds where there is nothing to do, but to run to the other side and find some place where there is actual level design. Heck that's why the planetoids in SMG[2] are so successful, because it means you don't have to run for ages across a large map before you reach anything interesting.

I could go on, but I'm tired and need some sleep.

However, I'm sure you realise by now that making 3D Sonic just the way you, I or we wanted is incredibly difficult. That is probably what resulted in Sonic Unleashed in the first place.

[sonfan1984]

^ So...did Ruby ever replied to your message yet?

[Voyant]

I'm tired of people wanting to turn the game into Mario...this is a franchise based of momentum, inertia, physics. Without that you don't have a Sonic game...and Sonic turning corners at 90 Degrees at 300 MPH would just piss everyone off...that's not how I want my sonic to play like.

[Nepenthe]

Yet when people say "this is the best game ever" upon seeing Classic Sonic's inclusion, nobody call them irrational.

There's plenty of people who groaned over Classic Sonic's return because it happened under the influence of the backlash against the modern design and has legitimized its apparent inferiority, has unnecessarily emboldened the people who bitch the loudest about relatively minor issues (like those Ryan Drummond die-hards, remember) and thus widened the presumed rift in the fanbase, and has done absolutely nothing to solve more dire problems...like how we're going to do 3D gameplay better. Indeed, there are people unhappy with the decision and the fans who may have inadvertently led to such a decision.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Nepenthe

[CanofEpicSauce]

It's funny how a thread about an interview can turn into a flame war.

Edited April 25, 2011 by CanofEpicSauce

[Ferno]

I missed the action trying to catch up. :<

[Rusty Spy]

Well firstly you have to consider that Classic Sonic's physics whilst fun are wrong. Rolling up and down a half-pipe does not allow you to gain height.

And WHAT does that have to do with ANYTHING? Also in the classics after a certain height you couldn't gain anymore height just felt like point that out.

Secondly, tight controls don't mix with good physics. The faster you are going, the more inertia you have. The more inertia you have the more difficult it becomes to change direction.

So make it so you it ISN'T difficult to change direction.

People keep complaining about Sonic having a 2-mile wide turning circle in Unleashed, but that's only because the physics actually work.

Then make it so that Sonic DOESN'T have a 2-mile wide turning radius.

People would then say, "Well why don't you slow him down to SA levels of speed", well, because in Sonic Unleashed, if you don't boost, the top speed, is actually pretty close to SA1's top speed, but in Unleashed when you turn, you arc from side to side. In SA1, you twitch from side to side, completely disregarding inertia. The same is true in SA2.

So........ Unleashed is better because it has shittier controls?

Now you could say that the inertia there should be sacrificed for the sake of control, but then you also lose jumping inertia, ramp inertia and so on.

Then make it so that jumping inertia and ramp inertia AREN'T sacrificed.

Also, another thing, rolling physics become severely fucked in 3D, because you are at the mercy of the terrain, because good physics would mean that you have extremely stiff controls whilst rolling. That does not make for good gameplay.

Then make it so that you DO have control when rolling......... like in SA1/2.....

Another thing, having wide open spaces in 3D means that you essentially have wide open space completely devoid of level design, because its really fucking hard to make good level design and intersting, but playable terrain in 3D.

Well I never said anything on making wide open spaces. The original argument was that it was easier said than done to incorporate proper physics and platforming, neither of which have to do with wide open levels.

However, I'm sure you realise by now that making 3D Sonic just the way you, I or we wanted is incredibly difficult.

Actually, I've realized that your making it sound difficult by being in the mindset that the physics should conform to real life physics, rather than making them so that they're FUN.

Hence why Mario Galaxy should've been the worst game ever made because Mario shouldn't be able to breath in space, and the majority, if not ALL the levels in the game should have him float off into the nearest black hole because it's impossible for chunks of land that small to have that much gravity, let alone the same gravity no matter how big or small. 90% of the levels shouldn't even exist because the black holes gravity would've sucked it all into it.

and Sonic turning corners at 90 Degrees at 300 MPH would just piss everyone off...that's not how I want my sonic to play like.

Yes, cause when I play Sonic, I want as little control as possible. In fact, hitting 300 mph should cause an instant game over because real hedgehogs with that kind of body structure would be..... dead and stuff when they go that fast.

I'm sorry but WHY?!

Edited April 25, 2011 by Black Spy

[Eternal EX]

Some, yes. Enough? Not without essentially scrapping the whole thing, I think.

Maybe, maybe not. All I'm saying....well asking is to just wait before throwing a judgement out. After 06 and nighthog, everyone is being more cautious about sonic games.

I missed the action trying to catch up. :<

It's basically an episode of jerry springer. Nothing new to see here.

[Blue Blood]

Wow, this topic turned shit before it even had a chance...

GHZ looks like a very plain level for M.Sonic. However, there's a lot of things for the player to perfect during a run of the stage. Drifting round the path properly will make you faster, there's rail hopping in 2D and 3D to get the most rings and optimum route and places that require good timing to do things well. It's a lot more basic than WI ever was, but it's still only the first level. Considering how much Unleashed changed between Windmill Isle to Dragon Road to Jungle Joyride, I'd say we have nothing to worry about.

tl:dr: GHZ isn't too brilliant, but other levels will undoubtedly be much better.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Blue Blood

[CanofEpicSauce]

Wow, this topic turned shit before it even had a chance...

Tell me about it, bro.

[Preston]

I think this game looks goody good good.

[Agent York]

I, for one, am liking what I am seeing. This is our beginning stage and it looks like a good way to start things off. This game is attracting interests of people and may be the first Sonic game many play for the first time in years. I love the aesthetics, and I might be the only person in the world who thinks Modern Sonic looks fun. I do hope that 3D Sonic isn't that linear all the way through the game, I really do miss more open stages like what is found in the Adventure games in 3D, but I also know this is the first stage for Modern Sonic's gameplay type and it looks like a very interesting romp to me.

After this game I don't think they should follow the same route of level design for Modern Sonic, but I understand this is celebrating what has been for Sonic's 20th Anniversary. I am excited to hear more.

[sonfan1984]

I might be the only person in the world who thinks Modern Sonic looks fun. I do hope that 3D Sonic isn't that linear all the way through the game, I really do miss more open stages like what is found in the Adventure games in 3D, but I also know this is the first stage for Modern Sonic's gameplay type and it looks like a very interesting romp to me.

After this game I don't think they should follow the same route of level design for Modern Sonic, but I understand this is celebrating what has been for Sonic's 20th Anniversary. I am excited to hear more.

I think it looks fun too for a starters stage so people can get used to the speed and controls. I'm just hoping for improvements in the later stages, so I'll hold my judgement until I see more of the modern levels.

[Preston]

Keep the Unleashed gameplay, but have Sonic control like he does in the Adventure games at slow speeds. Problem solved.

[Eternal EX]

Keep the Unleashed gameplay, but have Sonic control like he does in the Adventure games at slow speeds. Problem solved.

But he is suppose to move as fast as he does in Unleashed, colors and Generations so slowing him down would not really help. And there are many people who attacked the SA handling thing. I really don't care what they do as long as it's for the best of the game and enough to SHUT ALL FANS UP!

[ChikaBoing]

Keep the Unleashed gameplay, but have Sonic control like he does in the Adventure games at slow speeds. Problem solved.

A switching mechanic would be good. Pressing a button at any time, to switch between 2 different systems on how Sonic behaves, in-game.